Guess it's official. From GURPS to Masks, Mutants and Masterminds to Heroes Unlimited, from Dark Champions to Villains and Vigilantes, this is your one-stop shop for superhero tabletop discussion.
Today's topic: Combining superhero flavors. Is it possible for Dick Tracy-style pulp heroes to exist in the same time as Japanese tokusatsu stars? How do you balance your campaign when your party consists of a speedster, a spy, a space cop, and a karate bugman?
Previous thread:
I should've put that in OP.
I would say it depends entirely on the tone of the game and the GMs style
And people said that the Legion had too many members...
Is the center supposed to be Catwoman or some one else?
I did a Supers Kitchen Sink setting once. Broke it up by city, though. So one city had Four Color heroes and cartoonish villains, one was supernatural horror and urban fantasy, one was extraterrestrial invasions, and so on. Some people moved around, but heroes and villains mostly stuck to their genre-city because they felt more comfortable there, and because the locals didn't like people who don't play along.
Batman exists alongside Superman.
And for much of the 80's in DC there were enough spy/espionage themed books to have a crossover with all them in it and most did not have much in the way of costumed heroes.
Think of it this way; superheroes are a solution to a very specific kind of problem (namely high-profile crime and supervillains) just like plumbers are a solution to a highly specific solution to a specific problem, see?
Sometimes though you just need a regular guy doing regular detective and spy work stuff.
Guys like that even when they exist in comics universes likely never run into superheroes and probably don't particularly care to because they work best when NOT in the limelight.
It's Wildcat's son, Wildcat/Tomcat. He's a were-cat, but I don't think it's ever explained how he got his powers.
Wildcat II, or as he is more often called "Tomcat".
IIRC, he originally popped up in Kingdom Come. During Johns' run on JSA, he spent a lot of time referencing Kingdom Come and tossed in a lot of legacy heroes with little to no explanation how they got their powers.
Basically, he really, really wanted to focus on the legacy aspect, so he invented nieces, nephews, cousins, bastard children, and grandchildren so he could have his multi-generational team.
Ted DID have some kinda weird magical junk going on that kept him relatively young and healthy for a 90+ year old man.
Maybe that piece of narrative serendipity transformed Tom into a literal version of his dad's name, since that itself is pretty narratively serendipitous.
How well do you guys build your Hero System characters? I always wanted to try out a character with nothing but martial maneuvers, but the rules on how to create martial maneuvers are confusing as fuck.
Did they ever explain where he got the nine lives?
>Is it possible for Dick Tracy-style pulp heroes to exist in the same time as Japanese tokusatsu stars?
um
Let's be real. Pulp, he was not.
Yeah, in the JSA issue where Crimson Avenger tries to waste Power Girl.
That isn't where his youth thing comes from though, that's due to Ian Karkull.
I always enjoyed the legacy aspect of JSA
But then again i like that their leadership is comprised of 90-100 year old men who can still kick anybody's ass
But the interaction with the JLA is probably the best part of the series
who do the greatest heroes on the planet look up to
Not to derail your post, but Freedom Force is fucking fantastic and there need to be more of it.
Where's those pictures with rows and rows of public domain superheroes?
Search "Project Superheros".
That's the comic that it's from.
Not to derail your post, but Force Works is fucking fantastic and there need to be more of it.
...
Alright, some pdf troves to start. And some descriptions for if we get the newbs.
>Mutants and Mastreminds! mediafire.com
The mechanics of this game are effect driven - your damage can be thrown cards, heat rays or regular bullets, but they have same mechanics; your toughness can be bullet-proof skin, a suit of or armor or a forcefield; you can create sculptures of ice, stone or energy constructs with the same stats - but always the description of the effect is up to you.
The effects cover pretty much all you need, plus there are extras and flaws to make them tick exactly the way you want, but the basic mechanics is same old d20+your modifiers
The system balances itself by limiting some pairs of stats by it's power level - so you can have an attack that is more accurate than strong, about same, or more strong than accurate.
The GM Kit provides a shopping list of lego blocks to build archetypical characters with, very helpful for new players to pick up, especially if moving in from class-based systems.
The game began as a d20 OGL system, but by the 3rd edition has shed nearly all elements of that, although the 2nd edition is still in use with it's D&Disms.
(cont)
...
...
...
...
>Marvel Heroic RPG mediafire.com
This one is more fluff and narrative driven. All your powers and attributes, including a handful of key personality traits, are assigned a die size from d6 to d12; to roll you go through categories on yoru charsheet and pick up one applicable die from each and then roll the pool. The traits are freely applicable as far as you can justify it - your d12 Super Strength easily fits into a check to intimidate a guy because nobody wants to have a clobbering time with you if they can help it. Villains then construct a dicepool same way to resist. Damage can be done on three health tracks
The GM also gets a special die pool, which gradually grows and defines tension of the scene, and lets him make some things more difficult.
Unlike most other systems, chargen is not running on fixed numbers, but rather you select whichever and however much dice make sense for your character and your group.
After that, you can get experience by advancing through milestones on predefined tracks - either your own planned character develompent; or the written plot and goals of the current adventure (you have several of either type available but you can only embark on two at once in total)
...
Gotta love how they dance around copyrights.
All of these guys are in the public domain, but names like Daredevil and Blue Beetle are currently taken by modern characters.
Fun fact: Captain Marvel, or at least the Fawcett version, is in the public domain.
But did Force Works have YOUNG STARR: THE MAN WHO WAS NEVER BORN in it?
...
...
Pirate Superman is Best Superman.
...
...
...
Wearing the Cape had a gumshoe as a secondary character in one book, right alongside a flying brick main heroine, a vampire vigilante and an AI/robot copy of a dead girl.
>V-Man & The V-Boys
Are these meant to come across as really super gay?
Because they are, and it's fabulous.
Said gumshoe also didn't do a whole hell of a lot other than pass information along and be a superhero liason.
While there's plenty of stories in comics showing how they'd work, the question's more aimed at a roleplaying game where having someone sit aside so that the detective can do an investigation for a few days before telling them who to beat up isn't exactly fun for the rest of the group.
Knockoff supers are the best supers. Especially when you throw a tiny bit of creativity into the knock-off so it takes you a second to figure out who they're based on, or mash two different supers up.
I recently bought The League of Regrettable Superheroes: Half-Baked Heroes from Comic Book History. It's been a treasure trove of ideas. If only I had a game to use them in.
Surfing the Public Domain Superheroes wiki is also informative.
pdsh.wikia.com
Some of these guys would just be a blast.
>Captain Battle & Captain Battle Jr
It'd have to be a bit annoying that your boy sidekick has the same rank as you.
>Black Terror & Tim
Tim?
Major Victory and Captain Future are definitely suspicious of Dynamic Man and Dynamic Boys dynamic relationship.
You know the guy is trouble when he doesn't even NEED a scary epithet.
Pros and cons for having a secret identity?
What do you think is Black Venus's gimmick?
Pros: Assuming nobody connects your identities, it keeps assholes from targeting your friends and family, and keeps the police off your back.
Cons: Someone's eventually going to connect your identities, your friends and family won't be prepared when they do, and you have to balance an entire secret life and lie about what you're doing constantly.
Tim didn't give a fuck.
She's listed in Dames, Divas, and Daredevils, a book about Golden Age heroines.
Her fiancee was murdered by Japanese, so she decided to steal a plane and start murdering the fuck out of every Japanese soldier she could get her hands on, posing as a bar gal to gather information before sneaking out and using the information to bomb bases, shoot down Japanese planes, and stab them in fights.
This, pretty much. No one close to you becomes a target, but it's a lot of pressure and work to keep up the facade.
Pros:
>Your enemies don't know where you live.
>You can take off your mask and relax.
>You aren't hounded 24/7 by reporters
>If you need to retreat, you can just take off your mask
>You can practice by yourself.
Cons:
>Constantly have to worry about getting discovered
>If family and friends don't know, they might barge in trying to 'help' you
Well you could let close family know, hey I'm ___ so they can at least brace themselves for when/if that happens
Agh. Clicked 'post' on accident.
Cons Continued:
>Any slipup can put loved ones in danger.
>constantly have to slip away in order to be a hero
>Have to make up constant excuses
But then they worry about you constantly that you'll be okay and will come home at night. Lots of heroes don't want to put their loved ones through that kind of turmoil, even if they could reasonably handle it.
But they'd be basically the only high-risk profession outside of espionage that wouldn't.
Still, it's something that puts the heroes themselves at ease. Plus, as someone else mentioned, two personas - when done well - can help cover a lot of ground. There's some places Clark Kent can go that Superman can't.
And places that Matches Malone can enter while Bruce Wayne would be barred
Hey, don't say anything bad about Matches.
That Matches Malone is a stand-up guy. I don't even know why you're talking about him and Wayne in the same sentence fella.
How would you build a character that hosts another entity like a symbiote?
Which system?
Well, what does the symbiote do? What does it contribute to the wielder? Is it constantly active, or can it be triggered on or off?
Leaning towards Hero
I used a symbiote as an example. The entity is a spirit that haunts the man who killed him and now compels him to to do good.
The spirit adds to his presence (can intimidate/unsettle those who can't see it), suggest or give the host good/bad vibes based on the situation. With greater effort it can leave him messages like write on a foggy mirror or provide glimpses of his past and knowledge. That's all I got so far.
So it provides bonuses to certain social checks, grants danger sense and can even give him additional knowledge?
Probably purely fluff and roleplay. Just a normal form and form change via whatever the system has. All the aggression and fighting for control - roleplay.
In M&M?
Just give him a set of powers and tie them directly into a the symbiote. Easy.
Pretty much yes. Nice double dubs.
The character himself would be a petty crook and informant who kills a cop/handler to prove his "innocence." The cop's spirit haunts him and leads him to fight crime. He has deep knowledge of the underworld already, and fights it like the Shadow.
So you'd have a normal guy with normal stats, then a powers section with... Possibly Detect Evil, Danger Sense, extra PRE (specifically bought as a power, since it's a result of the ghost)...
Of course, it would come with disadvantages, such as Psychological Limitation: Haunted By Guilt (Common, Strong), Social Limitation: Criminal (Occasionally, Major), Hunted: Murderer (More Powerful, NCI, Harshly Punish) , Distinctive Features: Ghost can be sensed by psychics/magicians (Easily Concealed), etc.
Has anyone tried to play a mech piloting hero?
I'm thinking of playing one for a possible One-Shot game
Wouldn't be that different from playing a suit of powered armor, I'd think. Just scaled up some.
True it is similar to Powered Armor but there are certain considerations that have to be made for Mechs
>First they are treated more like Vehicles
>Second the size presents a problem if you plan to fight anything smaller than your mech
...
>Not having a suit of powered armor that plugs into your mech, which is just a scaled up version of your powered armor.
All joking aside, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were already official rules.
Lucky for you, there's a Gadget Guide on exactly this topic.
I think HERO had a chapter in one of their vehicle books on how to do mecha.
M&M is handled by GURPS has an entire book dedicated to mecha, IIRC.
I'm determined that i want to play as a giant character who is really stronk and also has an ice element to him. What could be some interesting ice related powers a hueg stronk guy could have?
Throw icebergs at people.
Super-breath is a classic.
bumpin with Supers
Ice fists, ice breath, infectious ice that slowly spreads on the ground around him and on targets struck by it, environmental control, all those classics.
Looks like Pollux from the old Flash show.
So I always wanted to run a supers game but I wanted to do it MCU Avengers style. Run a one shot or short adventure with players individually or in pairs then build up to the group session and go from there.
What's the easiest system for me to learn and to teach to a group of players who've only played DnD 5e/4e?
The biggest reason my group immediately latched onto M&M 3e was precisely because they had lots of experience with D&D 3.5/4e. If you have any experience with d20 systems, you're already halfway home with M&M.
I've looked into M&M though character creation seems a bit intimidating and I don't know if PL8 or 10 would be good to start them out as.
To be frank, chargen is indeed the most intimidating part of the system. Once you get past that, it's smooth sailing.
Also, when in doubt, use PL10, as it's the standard by which all other power levels are measured. Most of the book assumes PL10, and the GM's kit automatically builds PL10 characters. For reference, PL10 is roughly Avengers-tier.
10 is the default
but 8 if you want more low powered or street level characters
or you could do trade offs of 15pp per powerlevel
so PL8 180pp PL10 is 150pp and PL12 is 120pp
This is if you want mixed power level games with high skill low damage characters
average caracters
and high damage low skill characters
I've got to agree with If your players are used to the d20 system, M&M is going to be what they're most familiar with.
PL10 is where most comic book characters are. The biggest tip I can think of with character generation is to come up with a concept first, then make the powers fit the concept. There's no mechanical difference between a tommy gun, a flamethrower, or a cosmic rod's energy burst. You buy the ranged attack power, and just fluff it from there. "I have Ranged 8 which represents my sniper rifle." Done.
Anything that you've bought with points, you'll never lose permanently (bar GM fiat). For example, you'll always have more bullets for your gun. If your sword is broken in half during an adventure, you'll have either repaired it or bought a new one by the time the next adventure starts. If you use all of your grenades, you'll have made more by the next session.
Alright so if I'm running a one shot with one player who's made essentially not Batman. What enemies would he able to handle by himself? Like PL 5-8 minions would be easy while something that's PL10 would be a challenge?
>The biggest tip I can think of with character generation is to come up with a concept first, then make the powers fit the concept.
This is absolutely crucial. Considering the intense versatility of the system and what you can put together, it's important to have a strong concept that you can put together. The clearer your picture, the easier it gets.
Also, I must reiterate a post from the last thread that shouldn't be ignored.
>As others have mentioned, M&M is a system that's notoriously easy to break, and the devs themselves know it. It's directly spoken about in the 3e core book. In short, they emphasize that the game is about narrative, not "winning," and they call on the player's honor code and willingness to play for the sake of the story more than anything. The absolute easiest way to make sure you're building a good character is to ask yourself this question:
>>Would I legitimately want to read a comic book or watch a Saturday morning cartoon about this character?
>If the answer is "no," then you need to reassess your character.
A 2 Power level difference is a good challenge for a 1v1 scenario
Bumping
A PL 8 guy wouldn't be a Mook, he's more likely to be a trusted lieutenant or a low-level villain. The Query and Echo to a PL 10's Riddler. There's just enough of a power difference to make them a challenge, but not an actual struggle.
Keep in mind that PL isn't everything. A PL 10 character might be physically weak and lack a lot of combat ability, but could still have a high intellect, a massive amount of skills, and the ability to take a punch or two without dropping immediately.
You can get away with being a skillmonkey in M&M, yes. You won't be trading blows with the heaviest hitters the GM is throwing at your not-Superfriends, but when properly utilized, you are still indispensible.
Then again, while they're getting stomped by Dr. Genocide's Murder Machines, you're the one reprogramming them from the inside to turn against his mad machinations. Or translating the ancient runes of Tkarr before your brick gets dragged into the Chaotic Realms. Or not entering the room that the speedster just bumbled into because you recognized the smell of anesthetic gas and held your breath.
Skill Monkeys can be great if you have a Gm willing to throw some skill challenges at you every session and who realizes combat isn't your thing
The latter has been a problem for me in the past
Some GMs can be weird. I once tried to make a Doc Savage type, only for my GM to tell me that, with as much money, skills, and intelligence as my character had, they had no reason to be a hero so he wouldn't allow me to play them.
The fact that he believes someone who is that well off has no incentive to be a hero at all shows that he himself could never actually be a hero because he outright stated that he doesn't believe in altruism for altruism's sake.
In effect, he is telling you that he the absolute worst kind of guy to randomly get superpowers because he's the kind of guy that couldn't be trusted with them.
Yeah.
I mean, how many heroes fight crime just because they can, without any driving force like revenge, murdered parents, or anything like that?
The vast majority of them, actually.
A lot have tragedy in their lives but the tragedy is only RARELY what spurs on their fight to make the world better.
And Batman should quite pissing and moaning about his fucking parents when EVERY OTHER HERO has dead dads dead girlfriend dead wives dead mothers dead sons dead daughters and dead brothers and yet manage to be fully functioning human beings who aren't angry and paranoid 95 percent of time.
...