Horus Heresy General /hhg/

read lorgar transfigured

He achieved CHIM and realized that his legion is the worst.

...

3/10 missed a few pixels

So should you

1/10 missed a few updated pdfs

even with just precog he'll thrash any other primarch

*Any Primarch except Horus or Scoria.

Who wants rapiers? Here's some rapiers:
ebay.co.uk/sch/pdcgaming/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

A bit sad they don't have the upgrade sprues with all the weapon options, but a good base for some conversions. I got a set of them way back with their kickstarter.

horus can beat him with precog?

> Horus wins. Against any other Primarch. That's it.
> No seriously, what did you expect? With WS 8, 6 Attacks with a S7 AP2 lightning claw that cripples whoever survives his onslaught or a MC S10 Thunder Hammer and 2+/3++ he can destroy any other Primarch relatively safely. He's clearly built to be the hardest dude around and his gear is borderline unfair. Disabling Strike is just disgusting and it's directly intended to make sure he stays the top dog no matter how angry, pretty or well equipped anyone else is. The only one who could really be a threat is Lorgar with Precognition, but even he will go down with the Talon as in just 3 rounds he will mathematically be brought to WS and S 4, wich means that even with Precognition he will struggle to wound Horus, while Horus will gain +d3 attacks for his Sire of the Sons of Horus rule. Also, by the end of Round 4 he should be WS and S 3, meaning he will hit and wounds Horus on 5s. Ouch, that Talon really hurts. So, yeah, no one can actually fight 1 on 1 with the Warmaster, barring some incredibly lucky rolls. Better hope for Sanguinius to come fast...

Admittedly this is trusting that the shit people of 1D4Chan have any ability at number-crunching, but it looks believable.
Horus stronk.

pretty sure their math is wrong. horus only does like .5 wounds a turn with precog up

horus might still just barely scrape by because of his extra wound but i doubt it

I'm conflicted, my dudes. On one hand, I really like the World Eaters and I'd really like to collect and paint them, as well as Your Dude them up a whole bunch. On the other hand, their special rules seem pretty crappy and I think it'd harm my enjoyment of the army if they got their asses kicked a lot.
I don't really want to drop some serious dough only to get frustrated and stop playing. That's what stopped me playing WHFB.
Any advice?

> S5, Rage, Hatred, 5A Troops for 10pts/model with ~Furious Charge
> FNP out the bum
> W2, WS5 Axefreaks

World Eaters are gravy right now and in a very good place.
There is no real 'worst' Legion. Even the low-runners (Dark Angels IMO) have their power-pieces and every single Legion has the capability to rock socks.
That doesn't mean that you can play any list the same and expect the same results. World Eaters want you to take infantry, Apothecaries and transports, for example.
But the Eaters are probably the best they've ever had it right now.

And between the regular updates and the 30k mindset even with the armour-autism, fluff always takes priority over game.

Just make a small force, user, and see what happens then. Perhaps you should let a World Eater player help you out.

World Eaters aren't TOO horrible but their special units are really overcosted for what they offer. They have good FnP and probably the best tactical assault squads thanks to rage and RoW. I mean if you like World Eaters go for it with a relatively small force of like 1000 points. If you start hating it you can always switch to another legion with World Eaters as allies or go shattered legion.

One idea is to run shattered legion using the Hunter-Killer RoW, would force you to field an Emperor's Children Warlord but the RoW meshes well with both them and the World Eaters since you can't score objectives anyway (have to destroy shit outright) and World Eaters can with Surlak take inductii who don't score, become even more beastly in CC, and don't give your opponents victory points for killing them. Hilariously this means that you can use Surlak to gain victory points by throwing away inductii squads. Hey it is a net gain in geneseed.

Put simply you have super tactical squads that only you can gain victory points from having them die, scoring is of no importance to you anymore and you benefit even more from sweeping advancing.

Dark Angels legion rules=shit
Dark Angels wargear and RoW's=god-tier

>Dark Angels wargear and RoW's=god-tier
Not really, they don't even have access to AP 2 at initiative. Blood Angels have God Tier wargear
>Melta and flamer pistols everywhere
>Assault cannons out the ass
>AP 2 swords that cause 2 wounds with each successful wound roll
>Photonic Sword as legion relic

Dark Angels LA is arguably a downside. I would literally rather have nothing than exchange rallying and a melee buff THAT I FUCKING PAY FOR for that brutal VP penalty. I'd say that the bog-standard Stubborn / Furious Charge Legions are head-and-shoulders above them.

But
> Those acid rounds
> That stasis
> That Ravenwing
> That Ironwing

Somehow it all works out in the end. Even without Lion or special units.

>>Assault cannons out the ass
That's an understatement. Our souls ARE assault cannons. What do you think the Black Rage will be? Rolling a one.

Bio-acid molecular rounds are pretty fucking pimping

>poisoned (2+) that APs marines 50% of the time and termis/artificer 33%

>Not really, they don't even have access to AP 2 at initiative.
neither do most of the other legions. the instant death ap3 sword is better

The VP penalty isn't really that bad. It's basically just saying "dont lose faggot"

And +1 strength power swords for your characters meshes really well with the sword bonus

>neither do most of the other legions
Three legions do, to be God Tier with equipment you should at least be in the top 3
>the instant death ap3 sword is better
Too bad only praetors and centurions can take them and their main competition is always going to have a 2+

Do you think it would be possible to use the Templar Brethren upgrade pack from FW with the BaC plastic minis? I know they're supposed to go with a specific set from FW, but I don't mind mixing the armor types.

>Too bad only praetors and centurions can take them
only praetors and centurions can take the BA one too

yeah why not?

Yea fuck it, I use Mk II World Eater heads on my Mk IV B@C sets, looks fine.

Almost, if not all marine parts are interchangeable with little-to-no work.

The BA ones are AP 2.

Holy shit those would make great grav rapiers.

Okay guys, thanks for the quick response. I just made my first Forge World purchase...excited to make some hybrid plastic/resin toy soldiers.

so is a paragon blade

they arent ID

Centurions don't have access to paragon blades and perdition blades are better than paragon blades.

Thanks for your advice! I guess if I'm playing WE I should concentrate on murder more than scoring! How many points does Battle of Calth have, on average? If it's about 1000 then I'll pick it up!

boo hoo

the terranic greatsword is better

>Rylanor looked up towards the sky, where far above, the Warmaster’s fleet was still emptying the last of its deathly payload onto Isstvan III. The ancient dreadnought stood alone, the only note of peace in the screaming horror of the Choral City’s death.
I wonder what went through his mind.

Got any stories of Betrayal, /hhg/? Any of your dudes used to hang out together and then found themselves on opposite teams, Kalkator & Magneric style?

Pic somewhat related, one of the guys here played Morturg allied with a Golg-led IW contingent on a team game.

On a campaign game, however, they were opposed.

Do you guys ever ran not-historical-reenactment campaigns, where a loyalist legion goes traitor and a traitor one remains loyal?

probably this

I sometimes forget Contemptors are huge. Rylanor never escaped Istvaan, right?

It has what 30 marines plus a dreadnought and some characters? Marines can be made into two units of 15 for 400 points total, chaplain would cost like 90 points or something (don't run chaplains so don't know the cost), praetor probably costs like 135 points, and the dreadnought probably costs a further 175-210ish points. So with just the Cakth box you get 800-900 points, can fill up the rest with minor upgrades or some rhinos or something.

Cool! Thanks!

Probably this too.
His final fate is unknown but seeing how others escaped through the Emperor's grace it wouldn't surprise me. But perhaps it's for the best that he didn't escape.

>Terranic Greatsword
>Praetor averages 0.55 wounds against a WS 4 T 4 model with a 2+ save

>Perdition Blade (ignoring blood angels wound bonus)
>2.66 wounds against a WS 4 T 4 model with a 2+/5++ save

It really isn't better against marines, I guess it is better against mechanicum if that is your main enemy but there are very few multi-wound marine models running around with a 3+ save or worse.

Garviel Loken? But he has heightened initiative, though. Also, Alexis Pollux.

then take the paragon blade :^)

>Marines can be made into two units of 15 for 400 points total
What units are you playing? I can't think of any units where you pay 400 points for 15.

Depending on what you play you can stretch BaC to 1500. Below uses all of BaC and leaves you 300 point for other units/options, you can add three apothecaries and have 170 points of options left.

HQ
Preator - 100pts

Chaplain - 85pts

TROOPS
Vets squad, furious charge - 200pts

Vets squad, furious charge - 200pts

Vets squad, furious charge - 200pts

Red Butchers - 275pts

ELITES
Contemptor Cortus - 135pts

>What units are you playing? I can't think of any units where you pay 400 points for 15.
400 total, as in 400 for both groups of 15.

I could've sworn there was a bit in Galaxy in Flames where Tarvitz and Rylanor are together for a bit after the virus bombing, and Rylanor shows him a crack in his sarcophagus, he's slowly being killed by the virus. Then he's standing alone on a hilltop as the follow-up bombardment starts.

How would you change Abaddon's rules to make him useful/see play? How would you change other neglected characters?

Inb4 gimme ap2 at initiative

You're thinking of Huron Fal and Captain Temeter of the deathguard. Although it is Ancient Rylanor standing watching the final bombardment coming in.

>Fulgrim laughed and said, ‘Now you flatter me, hoping my ego will coerce me into obeying your orders.’
>‘Is it working?’ asked Horus as the tension drained away.
>‘Yes,’ admitted Fulgrim.
Holy Emperor it is actual dialogue from the book.
Currently reading that. First three books are pretty great.

Yeah, you really shouldn't be taking the greatsword on Praetors, it's very obviously a Centurion only item.

I hope at some point they stick rending on it though, so we can have a big huge sword capable of hurting anything with a good swing. Also, I'm a real fan of AP3 Rending CC weapons rather than just piling on more at initiative AP2.

how mandatory is it to give the vexilla to IF legion veteran squads? I'm tight for points and have to choose between giving the sergeants artificer armor and the squads vexillas. (currently I have it so the sergeants have AA and a power fist)

Why not drop the PF.

>mfw Horus/Fulgrim is canon
>mfw no face

How about Sevatar who gets precognition? He only has S5 but alot of attacks and really high WS. He might not kill a primarch but it seems he might tie them up or even do some damage if he gets lucky.

Woman, it has been canon since Slaves to Darkness.

Even better

the problem with sevatar is that hes not EW and most primarchs can just ID him by being high strength. he could get lucky and tie a primarch up for a few turns, but any of the high strength ones would probably kill him fast.

hes still a beast though

I'm having a lot of fun odding Calth bits, torsoes especially. Any cool conversions floating around? I've been scraping off the cables and adding guitar wire under the plate to make it look more like some of the art and FW models, might post some pictures tomorrow.

I didn't play around with mine yet as most of them are still on sprues, but your idea seems good and pics would definitely be welcome.

Putting the finishing touches on my falchion, just gotta do the sponsons now. I love this model and it usually performs admirably for me. What is your guys' favourite super heavy?

As far as i can tell his only problem is facing folks with EW and not having it himself. His Dirty Fighter rule added to his already huge number of bonuses (ID Master crafted precision strike) mean he is damn near invincible in a challenge.

Oh, and anything with a AV. You would really think someone of his rank would carry a melta bomb or two. But then his points would go up and he is already probably under costed.

Theoretically on a charge with really lucky rolls he could kill Perterabo without him getting any hits in return.

Imperial Fists without power fists just seems...wrong. I don't know.

What legion is that?

Why, only the best legion, brother

I couldn't tell at first but I had a gut feeling it was a Bangle tank.

Oooooo that's nice.

Fav SH Tank: Glaive
Fav SH: Knight Atrapos

For some reason when ever I see Bangles i think of the Cincinnati Bengals

And now that I made the Connection I can only imagine a bunch of Space Marines in Orange and Black stripes purging the Cowboys or Browns

Thanks for giving me that mental image.

Is he not one of the most patrician men in 30k?

So are any of the HH books after Forgotten Empire good? That's the one I stopped on

>So are any of the HH books after Forgotten Empire good?
In the grimdarkness of the far future there is only novels. And most of them aren't that great, I mean there are a few hidden gems but you have to to dig for them.

Well yeah, that's why I skipped Fulgrim and the DA books. That's why I want to know if the ones after Unremembered Empire are any good?

>[SOUND OF SILENCE INTENSIFIES]

I've mentioned it before but my Death Guard HQ's have something like that going on. The Librarian pulls an Eliphas on the Praetor

>Tfw 4 days off consecutively
>Sitting down and finally painting all 60 of my marines

I got 20 done today

Anything by Chris Wraight.

Forge on user, got any pics?

If it ever starts getting you down, just remember that the 5 guys making up GW Scandinavia once assembled and painted 10k points of Undead in 14 days.

Fluffwise, were "mk" or "pattern" (shape, look...) of Marine units (particularly vehicles) that are used in GW's platoc models already been used in 30k area?

Well, Razorback, Las-Pred, and some other were did not exist IIRC, but I'm curious about others like basic LR, Rhino, Vindicator, etc.

And yes I'm asking this because I'm a cheap bastard and I hate dealing with resin. Viva plastic.

The plastic vehicles all existed except RB and certain weapon setups like you said. They are the "newer" Mars pattern compared to the older Deimos pattern.

Rhinos, regular Predators, and Land Raiders with Lascannons are okay. Crusaders and Redeemers did not exist.

The resin vehicles are just for different looks and to update Rogue Trader designs.

Regular plastic Mk 7 marines did not appear until Siege of Terra.

Most plastic weapons existed in 30k as they are mostly Mars pattern.

Here's a question on the perdition blade - when mulching poor, ordinary mooks (as opposed to characters in challenges), would the wounds just be added to the pool as normal? That's to say, if your praetor (or whoever) causes two unsaved wounds against a tac squad, does that double up and delete four of them?

I was thinking about doing a Primarch's own Iron Warriors list, so besides Perturabo and an artillery battery what should I bring?

Reeeeeeeeeeeee

>Tfw no Imperial Heralds

It depends on what you want to do. Perturabo synergyzes very well with termies, so you could do a Terminator/Tyrant-wing

Iron Havocs are good too, maybe you should bring them. Or bring Narik Dreygur & The Sexbots, they can do nice stuff. Maybe you won't need lots of artillery given how this is a Primarch's Chosen list instead of an Ironfire one.

Hey guys, I am on my phone right now and want to write a list but my 2016 legiones update copy got corrupted somehow and cant really download here.

Would you mind telling or showing me the costs for phoenix termies?

Would be much apprdciated.

Wow.

For Abaddon:
- Establish that he has the same "rank" as a Praetor and therefore can take e.g. a Command Squad. Most characters that are clearly captain-level need this too.
- Let him take a Paragon Blade instead of a Power Sword
- Most important: Specify that his Justaerin Warplate does not cause other patterns to lose the ability to Sweeping Advance.

For fluff reasons, I'd also give him Fear and Preferred Enemy (Lunar Wolves/Sons of Horus).

>Inb4 gimme ap2 at initiative
Well, why not? That's what he needs, not because it's intrinsic to his nature and status to have the best wargear available (though it is), not because he was always known - since his invention in 1996 - to have an AP2 sword (well, back in 2nd AP wasn't a mechanic, but it did the same thing; heck, back then it explicitly auto-penn'd armor and explicitly ignored invulnerable saves too), but simply because without it he's outclassed by a generic Praetor costing some 50+ points less. His custom armor is hard to make use of since he handicaps (and is handicapped by) any unit of terminators he joins, which in turn wipes out the benefit of his Teleporter Assault rule (which isn't worth ~50 points anyway).