WARMACHINE/HORDES GENERAL

>Deck Gun
>They now have Reposition [3"] but still do not hit very hard... But they only cost 3 points.

What do you guys want in the Ret RPG book?

>Broadside Bard + Mules
>Commodore
>Horgenhold Mortar
>Sea Dog Gun

Time for an AoE party.

Can someone explain what the giant models do please? Returning to the game and no idea how they work.

Montador does nothing for Commodore or deck guns.

>shit
>d3+1 boosted damage POW 10's at RAT 6 with Dig In for 5 points
>shit

As far as I know, Scather hasn't been confirmed for either yet.

Either or both could end up loosing that rule.

Please, in the name of little tortured babby elephants, let eHexxy keep Black Spot

Cannon, not Chain Gun.

No chance, that's Skarre's spell.

They Flayer cannon was already pretty okay. I am pretty hyped about him now though.

Looks like Skorne might be a strong gunline army.

If Morghoul2 has Blind feat, that's +4 to hit. The Catapult Crew is baller as fuck (P+S 18 vs Heavies), the Flayer cannon could be good. Plus they've confirmed a Venator Dakar with Veteran Leader and "Combat Coordination," whatever that is.

Seems like Battle Engines will get a boost so Wartortle might be even better and hopefully still has boostable guns.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the Cannoneer maybe gets an AOE4 gun, the Ardus Sentinel is still good and that the Mammoth guns are better (maybe they're ROF3 now).

Rasheth or Hexxy2 could become better at buffing ranged attacks.

Skorne is looking interesting to say the least.

Flayer cannon might get the "d3+1 ROF" rule that a lotta stuff with Strafe has been getting, which I'd personally be okay with. Catapults look nasty, especially with the amount of slamming Skorne can get up to.

I really want eHexxy to keep some kind of DEF debuff. Marked for Death?

>What do you guys want in the Ret RPG book?
Lore on all the Hallytyr.
Playable Soulless.
Careers: Dawnguard, Third Dawn Initiate(Assassin), Electromancer, Priest of Scyrah, Voidtracer, Swordmaster, Battle/Force Mage.
Options: Arcane Mechanik(Arcanist), Military Officer(Thane), Soldier(Houseguard), Warcaster(Shyeel), Warcaster(Vyre), Warcaster(Nyar), Warcaster(Houseguard), etc

You forgot fane knights and mage hunter infs.

Also Iosan tech and other goodies.

Huge base models, you mean?

There's two kinds, Battle Engines and Colossals/Gargantuans.

Battle Engines are basically just giant solos. Being huge bases, they have specific rules(always have pathfinder, never get cover/concealment/elevation, can always see them through clouds/forests. They're pretty much meant as gun platforms with a few exceptions. Most of them were middling at best, not really good, but not really bad, but a couple exceptions.

Colossals/Gargs are giant warjacks/warbeasts with their own rules. They have some of the same stuff as above, except some other things(can shoot even while in melee, enemy models don't get in melee bonus against them, and you can still CRA them even if they're in melee, and they can never move outside their own activation) that are meant to be big monsters on the table. Again, their relative power is divided, though pretty much as a rule the Gargs sucked, as they had a lot of issues at the base level. Colossals were across the board, though none of them were straight up bad, and a few of them(Earthbreaker and the Stormwall) regarded as incredibly powerful.

Their general problem is that for all their size, they were usually fairly easy to kill. Not trivial, but if you could kill two heavies in a single turn, you could generally kill them.

Of course, with Mk3 around the corner, who knows. They've said one of their goals is to make the huge base feel a lot more powerful, though what exactly that means who knows. Battle Engines got talked about today and they said they're trying to bring them up to par as well, so we'll see.

What are the new artillery things?

So basically they ignore all terrain stuff and work as double jacks. That's neat I suppose. I don't like that scale of model though, it's too large to really do shit with.

I'm going to be playing Retribution in MK3 and running a journeyman's league for my local shop. Hoping those things don't start popping up. Are they a lot of points in MK2?

About 20 points, on average. They made a big part of your army, and two of them often were your army.

what does it do?

Who the fuck could afford to field two of them?

I mean, that's like 250 bucks. When you really look at a normal 50 point army, that's not that expensive.

Mage Hunter Infiltrator would basically just be Mage Hunter/Cutthroat. Same with Fane Knight being Knight/Horseman.

I've bought so much shit I don't even know the cost of things any more DESU. I just have.. everything

> Warmanouns getting updated rules
YAY!
> points escalating to twice what they were
> cost escalating to twice what it was
> time taken escalating to twice what it used to be
Son of a nigger. Time to keep saving my milk money for another couple months.

Everything is doubling in points, overall army size is staying the same.

So like, instead of a 50 point army, you'll have a 75+25 point army that's roughly the same size.

Oh, that's good. Gives them a little more flexibility in balancing.

Also means I can still get my PTR 91 and then pick up a Warmadicks army on schedule. Hooray.

Yea, that's why they're doing it.

Warjack points are jumping as well, where most casters had +6 before, now they're looking at like +18-20, so Warmachine side of things model count will go down as well.

We don't know the point cost, and we don't know what the Trencher Master Gunner does for it.

>now they're looking at like +18-20
25-30 was the stated average range. You'll be able to fit two moderately costed heavies into the free points.

even if what you said did make sense you could've just played smaller point games ya know

> if what you said made sense
Don't see what's so tricksy about it.
> you could have played smaller games
Wargaming communities have a general tendency to play at or above the recommended game size. Sure I could try to beg for smaller games, but most people want to bring MAXIMUM TOYZ.

>Wargaming communities have a general tendency to play at or above the recommended game size.
15 to 200 is recommended for WMH. 50 is the highest value that sees regular play.

>points escalating to twice what they were
>cost escalating to twice what it was

means the ratio between them stays pretty much the same, so getting longer games from that doesn't make sense. you're right about maximum toyz but hopefully mk3 draws new blood and if so there'll be people starting with the battleboxes looking for smaller games

I was under the impression that unit point cost would stay the same, but the points values of standard battles would be escalating - resulting in a near-doubling of the monetary cost of a "starting" army, more models on table, and longer-lasting games.

>Wargaming communities have a general tendency to play at or above the recommended game size. Sure I could try to beg for smaller games, but most people want to bring MAXIMUM TOYZ.

That's super wrong for WMH, virtually nobody played above 50pts ever, even after Colossals came out and introduced whatever their "big game" variant was called, or when Iron Gauntlet made their finals into that weird 75pt format that nobody liked.

No, that is absolutely not what's happening. You'd know that if you just looked at the point costs on the cards they've spoiled already.

ohh I gotcha thought you meant point cost not money cost, no the point cost is approximately doubling as well but they are making jack/beast points a bigger percentage of that

....why does he think he told us anything? If its still rof1 aoe3 pow14 range 14, than its not very exciting.

When is someone going to leak info?

WM/H community decides the tourney values, not PP. They've tried to raise it before with their weird 75 point formats, but no one will bite.

The game just doesn't scale well past 50 points.

I mean, with the changes to the guns and the specific rules it got, it's a much better deal than it was before.

I am new and do not know how cards work yet. I am looking at starting to play when mk3 happens. I have been corrected now. Unwad your gubbins.

ok, so it used to be games were mostly 35 or 50 points, and then you got 6ish extra free points from your caster to spend on jacks/beasts. now it should be 50 or 75 point games, everything costs approximately double what it did adjusted a bit for balance, and you get 30ish extra free points to spend on jacks/beasts

As a GW refugee, the twin concepts of "balance" and "not escalating the game to absurdly hueg power levels" confuse me.

>Dat Venator catapult
HNNNG.

>a catapult
>with burst fire
>burst fire
>on a catapult
Skorne technology. How the hell does it work?

It's exploding spikes. The bigger the target, the more spikes that hit it.

I'm a pretty casual warmachine player, but live pretty close to lock and load and was considering attending, so to any of you who may have gone before-

Should I bring my minis, even if I'm not participating in any tournaments? I should be able to finish painting 50 pts, but don't have the range to paint and field more than one with character restrictions in mind.

How do you transport your minis while at an event? Any tips?

Pic not really related, a few of my manowars.

They'll have Iron Arena running, which is casual games for everyone to play, so you should.

I just use my normal case, and usually just play out of it unless I have a place to stow my bag.

For trays, a usual oven tray does the trick. An unused one, preferably.

Why are people acting like the catapult is suddenly good

It's exactly as effective against targets as it was in mk 2 in 95% of situations

Blind is only on one caster and legion is immune to it, so no def debuffs from that

Dakar's veteran leader is only a +1, that gives you rat 4 after ain aim which still isn't enough to hit most heavies in the game outside of khador

Why would you slam with a skorne heavy to set up an unboostable pow 18 shot, instead of just wrecking the target with the heavy itself? I would much rather a titan gladiator get its initials off, including a boosted charge, than knock something over for the catapult to hit. If I'm slamming with Skorne it's so I can collateral their caster, and if they gave me the chance to do that then that was a colossal fuckup on their part and doesn't need the investment of a catapult to take advantage of.

The catapult is going to have to be coupled with some impressive buffing support models, or debuffing spells, to have a chance in hell of hitting anything other than gargossals and khador heavies. A krea's paralysis can work if it manages to hit a warbeast, but doesn't do anything to jacks.

The catapult and the flayer cannon are different artillery pieces matey.

I think he literally means that what the catapult throws explodes into a shower of spikes.

Because if you ignore the bonus it gets against heavies and use it against infantry, especially if the faction keeps Black Spot,

Flayer Cannon doesn't shoot exploding spikes.

Catapult shoots the spikes.

The exploding spikes.

Like, it shoots a ball full of flayer spikes and explodes, thus the rule.

Then why aren't we using the catapult right now?

No one is using skorne artillery, and it has gained 0 value vs small bases except gaining a single point of pow on a direct hit. If black spot were to make it a viable piece, well, eHexeris has been around for 5 years. Why haven't we been seeing all these lists using the catapults? It's already 18 inch range in mk 2, being able to move 2 or 3 inches before shooting isn't that much of a boost.

It can now move and shoot 4 inches, it can now be screened, and burst fire means that it's much better against medium infantry, rather than small based infantry.

Oh boy, much better vs medium infantry

Which medium infantry is going to be taken down by unboostable pow 9 blasts?

Black Spot. POW17 shots.

Thanks for the advice! I'll figure something out then, I convinced my roommate to join me.

I mostly play at 35 points, and to have 50 available (and painted) my list won't be great, but I'm comfortable with it.

Esorscha, Silly William, Beast 09
Malakov, Decimator
WG, UA, Joe, Rocketeers
Widowmakers, Marksman
Alexia and the Risen
and eiryss2 if I pick her up. I've also got manhunters or harlan or eliminators, I'll think on it.

I've got IFP and shocktroopers, but the IFP aren't painted yet so I'll probably leave them behind.

Dark picture of models in my closet somewhat related.

Black spot is only -2 def. Yeah, that'll fuck up manowar, but even if the catapult aims and you have black spot that's a 50/50 shot of hitting def 12. And that's only with that one caster.

The fact is, the dwarf artillery does MORE damage to medium bases than the catapult does, and it doesn't have to have the inaccurate rule, with the only trade being 2 inches less range and a less potent blast damage. And it costs a point more, but if you're already investing 5 into this may as well make it 6.

Soles did confirm that the artillery still leaves a scather. It was in the forum thread about the insider.

Plus whatever the Dakar will do for them. Soles specifically didn't tell us what Combat Coordination did.

lol at the random Malifaux shit in the back

>15 to 200
???
most games I have seen been played are 35 or 50pts. With a few 15 ones for people starting or if there isn't time for a larger game.

So now you're paying more points to add a support solo solo, pushing its cost higher than the other artillery options to try to get somewhere near the accuracy of them, in a faction whose complaint has been too much support bloat.

Bought a Siege Animantarax today. Shit is so cash.

You're only at 43 points with everything down to Alexia.

Eiryss 2 is obviously good, but Manhunters are pretty bad right now.

Eliminators are a good all-around unit and can do some heavy work to casters on feat turn.

Also, I'd swap out the Decimator under Malakov for a Juggernaut.

Forgot aiyana and holt, but that comes out to 54 on my end with max WG, UA, and 3x rockets. I should check my math...

I've got a juggernaut and a spriggan, I'll think on it.

Might just squeeze the eliminators in since they turned out ok painted, I haven't played with them much, this might be a good chance to do that.

Thanks for the advice, I've still got some time to paint, so maybe I'll shift some priorities around, or paint my drakhun on my desk

They came from scary Khador!

I recently bought a sea dog deck gun for dirt cheap in expectation of a buff to artillery.

kek

*56 that is

Ah k. What about Ravagores?

they lost scather but gained creeping barrage

where's this from? first I've heard of it

Use Forward Kommander. Way easier than doing the math.
forwardkommander.com/

Here's what I counted (Juggernaut in place of Decimator)

Points: 41/50
Forward Kommander Sorscha (*6pts)
* Beast-09 (11pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (3pts)
Kovnik Andrei Malakov (3pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)

>regarding Drakhun.
Use him. He's fucking terrifying and well worth the 5 points. Insane mobility and hits like a truck. Counter charge has also saved my bacon more than once.

>forwardkommander
Okay this is cool, I haven't seen this before, thanks again!

Points: 50/50
Forward Kommander Sorscha (*6pts)
* Beast-09 (11pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (3pts)
Kovnik Andrei Malakov (3pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (with dismount) (5pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)

I'll need to think about my options again then, but either way I should get what I need painted. Thank you!

Looks like the venator flayer cannon gained a point of pow and gets an extra shot if the grunt is b2b, but it lost 2 inches of range. While it can make up for that by moving, it can't aim if it does so.

Also, looks like sea dog deck guns are unchanged other than gaining Reposition [3], but at least they're only 3 points now.

Shit i hope all prime versions of casters/locks gonna see field soon.
Not only Kreoss.
MAKE PRIME GREAT AGAIN!

Every single khador spoiler has made me ridiculously optimistic for khador. The worst spoiler for khador has been that Sorscha is largely unchanged, and she was already one of our best.

Every single spoiler has, alternatively, made me dread Mk3 skorne.

Dread playing against Skorne or dread playing with them?

Dread playing with them. It's been a nerf after nerf, with the only card we've been spoiled being objectively worse than the artillery everyone else is getting.

There hasn't been much revealed for Skorne, the sky isn't falling.

eMorgul's feat is solid, and the artillery will shit on large based stuff (which will be much more prevalent with more 'jacks being played. Also, immortals having souls will help immensely

You better hope that Molik gets nerfed hard. He's so high on the power scale that nothing else Skorne gets can be that great or else all hell will break loose.

You got a straight up buff in Immortals having souls.

The Beat Back nerf already hit Karn pretty hard, it's quite likely he won't get hit too hard after that.

Immortals having souls will help immensely for Zaal2, and will help a bit for others by letting them fuel ancestral guardians. That's about it. In exchange, it now makes us vulnerable to other factions that can claim souls.

Beat back was one of our signature abilities and it got hit hard. Spell slave cut the balls off our best support piece, most of our casters have no significant non-upkeeps that are eligible for spell slave to cast. Condition nerf made it harder for us to run a gunline. Far strike nerf means that even if they compensate by giving us a few more inches on guns, we're still losing ranged threat overall. The artillery can only hit large based stuff in conjunction with some heavy buff/debuff action, it's fucking rat 1. Legion is immune to blind. Our cataphracts have complete fucking victim stats at 12/15, 8 boxes was the only thing that made them useful.

Oh no, he'll just have to make due with the 1" moving towards whatever he hit and then the 2" from sidestep moving wherever he wants.

Skorne players truly never stop whining.

Hell, Skorne could get a special rule that says they get to run twice the points of any other faction and you'd still bitch about it.

You're assuming he's going to keep spell slave as is, and not get something else.

And it helps Zaal1 as well. Plus, it lets you run AGs to collect the souls as is.

I never get the whole complaint about "Well now Cryx can collect my souls".

It's not like you were bringing Immortals against Cryx because of their anti soul collect niche anyways, you were bringing your other infantry that gave them souls. So how are Immortals worse about it, exactly?

Skorne suffered from the Condition nerf the very least, given that for two points you can condition 4 times without issues. With two min units of BHs, you've got 8 possible condition uses. If you can't gunline with that, you need to be blaming something other than the game.

You've got a caster who's feat doesn't work on Legion warbeasts? Good thing their entire faction dynamic is changing and they'll be bringing more infantry that the nerf DOES work on. Or, you know, drop a different caster. Plenty of warcasters often have feats or abilities that do nothing against some armies.

The only way people played cataphacts before was either Fist or the Centarii, which are 12/16. Those 5 boxes might end up giving you other buffs that makes them worthwhile otherwise anyways. Beyond that, all medium base infantry got nerfed, and for good reason, they were essentially taking the entire objective role of warjacks, and that needed to stop.

You're looking at the very few changes you've been told about and then deciding everything else based on Mk2 rules and stats, which is fucking pointless. You know practically nothing about the faction, how can you decide that these nerfs are the entirety of what they've done on Skorne?

>Beat back was one of our signature abilities and it got hit hard.
There are only two models with Beat Back in Skorne.

Retribution has more models with Beat Back.

Oh no, that's not the nerf.

The nerf is that it requires him to move directly towards the model after the attack is resolved.

If he kills it, there's no model to move towards, and he can't move anymore.

You can't Beat Back off single wound models anymore unless you don't kill them.

And I'm not a Skorne player.