FantasyCraft

And no-one wants to talk about it.

It's a fucking shame it's not more supported or popular

I think that I agree with an user that said that the only way that FC becomes popular is if an internet personality who was significant to the hobby were to play this and extol upon it.

It's just "d20 fantasy" with a new coat of paint. Yes, it's better than 3.pf, but so are most systems.

I notice that most people who talk about it on Veeky Forums go on about how great the system is, but can never give specifics about it.

Pretty much this but also add the fact that some if the hate comes from the OGL which caused many companies doing d20 games, some that are pretty nice (testament) to down right retarded( VESM D20 / WWE d20).
OGL started this mentality of " d20 can do everything" which is pure asinine.
Fantasycraft is pretty nice, only problem I have heard is the Crunch of it.

That's strange, every time that I see someone ask about why people say it's great, there are several specifics mentioned.

Several specifics being?

Pretty much everything this guy says.

Y'know, it's like my favorite game.

And the most important reason:

YOU CAN PLAY A FUCKING DRAGON! WITH THREE HEADS AND EVERYTHING!

interesting classes
awesome feats
distinct weapons
useful items
monster creation
item creation
non-borked math
modularity of subsystems.

cont.
Basically, it's fantastic.

Like they took Pathfinder and slightly tweaked the math.

So, are you also saying Pathfinder is fantastic?

>Like they took Pathfinder and slightly tweaked the math.
You insult FC with that comparison. FC is like they took the OGL and built up a new system, with better design philosophies, that has flavors of 3. PF.

Specifics? Sure, I can give you specifics.

Probably the biggest one is skills. The basic framework of how you acquire skills is basically the same as in 3.5 (invest ranks that you get based on class levels and Int bonus), but the way skills are interwoven into the rest of the game makes them vastly more useful and interesting.

For one thing, you can actually have a solid spread of skills. The skills themselves are much more condensed -- there are only 20 skills in the game (not counting Spellcasting, which is a special case), with no separately-ranked subskills like Knowledge (blah) or the like. And the minimum skill points any class provides is 4+Int, so you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to max 1/5 of the skills in the game. And you can easily have a +1 or even +2 Int bonus without going much out of your way for it, even as a martial character, due to the way the point buy is set up. Then there are the various Specialties that can give you more skills, either by extra skill points or through Paired Skills. You also have plenty of flexibility in what you can invest in, since you have at least 8 class skills, plus 2 Origin Skills of your choice to always consider class skills -- and Specialty can help expand your options here as well. And you can easily get away with not quite maxing out skills, as fixed skill DCs don't get obscenely high and odds are good a given NPC won't have a high bonus in the relevant skill to resist you in an opposed check.

And skills are useful. They're used for all your special maneuvers in combat, a single simple design choice that accomplishes several things at once: It rewards martials for investing in skills, it lets noncombatant classes contribute in combat, and it makes tactical maneuvers like Bull Rush and Trip viable without sinking half your build into it. They're also more relevant for their more obvious noncombat applications, because they aren't easily replaced with magic or gear.

that's not very specific at all, that sounds like general terms

It doesn't have the playerbase for me to even consider reading it.

Wow, fucking really

Yes, those are the subjects of the specifics that are discussed.

Dat self-propagating logic.

Don't forget the way that ALL mental attributes work to enhance skills.

Intelligence gives you skill ranks, but is only used as the modifier stat for 4 skills. This gives you the a great breadth and raw volume of skills, but limits how many "over-curve" bonuses you can get both by height and volume.
Ex: 20 Int (and 14 else) in a 6+Int skill class can have 11 skills at max rank, but only 4 skills at a +5 bonus (over max rank, before any other modifiers).

Wisdom is used as the modifier stat for 6 skills. Thus, a high Wisdom will give you the largest volume of bonuses.
Ex: 20 Wis (and 14 else) in a 6+Int skill class can have 8 skills at max rank, but all of 6 skills at a +5 bonus (over max rank, before any other modifiers).

Charisma, however, is the only stat that is additive with itself; this owing to the Lifestyle sub-system. Lifestyle bonuses apply when you use social skills (like Impress and Bluff, both Cha skills) and you gain Lifestyle by simply having a high Charisma modifier.
Ex: 20 Cha (and 14 else) in a 6+Int skill class can have 8 skills at max rank, but 2 of those skills will have a +5 bonus and 2 of those skills will have an effective +7 bonus (over max rank, before any other modifiers).

Because I'm curious, I want to find out the volume of skill bonuses that are gained by a 6+Int Mod class (with Appearance and without other modifiers) with 20 in each mental stat 14 else and with 20-13 else. I will also assume the character is level 10 and that every skill is a class skill for this exercise. For the purposes of Lifestyle (Appearance) bonuses, I will assume that ALL instances of the use of Bluff, Haggle, Impress and Intimidate will benefit. I understand that there are cases where the above skills will not gain Appearance bonuses and cases where other skills might gain said bonuses. I can only that they will ROUGHLY even out.

[autism] Total equation: ((10 [levels] + 3 [Char creation bonus]) * (6 + a [Int Mod])) + (20 * b [1 if '13 else', 2 if '14 else']) + ( c [number of stats receiving the main stat Mod] * d [4 if '13 else', 3 if '14 else']) + (4 * e [0 if '13 else', 1 if '14 else'] + (4 * f [1 if '20 Cha' & '14 else', 2 if '20 Cha' & '13 else']) [/autism]

20 Int, 14 else
Total 199, Highest +18 (4@), Average Mental* 13.29, Overall Average 9.95

20 Int, 13 else
Total 179, Highest +18 (4@), Average Mental 12.29, Overall Average 8.95

20 Wis, 14 else
Total 166, Highest +18 (6@), Average Mental 10.86, Overall Average 8.3

20 Wis, 13 else
Total 135, Highest +18 (6@), Average Mental 8.86, Overall Average 6.75

20 Cha, 14 else
Total 164, Highest +20 (@2), Average Mental 10.57, Overall Average 8.2

20 Cha, 13 else
Total 135, Highest +20 (@2), Average Mental 8.57, Overall Average 6.75

*Main stat skills at max rank, other mental skill with evenly distributed ranks and remainder ranks dumped to physical skills.

So this is a Fantasy Craft general?

We can dream...

It ain't a general until someone posts the copy-pasta.
And I'm not doin' it unless there is a consensus that this is a general.

Can't believe this thread is still alive... Love it.

Came back to post the great grand reason why there isn't much discussion of this system, aside from crunch hate and d20 hate:

Lack of support.

Aside from the core mechanics there isn't much reading to be found on FC. It leaves crafting a world completely up to the GM. There isn't even a Monster manual, let alone Adventure Paths, Modules, and Splats.

There's a SUPER simple method for creating an statting out any monster you like, but it's still more work than grabbing a MM and picking a pre-fab foe.

As much emphasis as we in the hobby put on unique world building, the majority would prefer a pick-up-and-go adventure to kick off a more custom campaign. Or at least to draw ideas from. 100% Custom worlds are a ton of work.

There is a smattering of monsters and humanoid enemies in the book, along with a system that lets you make any sort of NPC in minutes (Seconds, if you already know what you're aiming for and use the Web NPC builder).

There actually are several Adventure Paths/Modules, and a few Splat books (Call to Arms, which has multiple different classes, Spellbound, which is perpetually delayed, and the Adventure Companion, which has a ton of stuff).

They leave it open to have your own setting and give you tools to create a setting that's coherent and fleshed out, but Adventure Companion also has 3 settings of its own, along with everything you need to play in them.

It has:
Cloak and Dagger - Low magic, low miracle not!Rome setting designed for espionage, intrigue, and political wheelings, although it looks like it supports all sorts of Roman antics.

Sunchaser: Looks like your standard fantasy world, I haven't looked too deep into it yet. Has something to do with pools of magic, I think?

Epoch: Cavemen warriors versus Not!C'thulu worshipping Aztec blood mages.

So, there is a fair amount of stuff there for people who want something pre-made.

To get into specifics on each of those:
>interesting classes
Classes are well-developed and balanced with respect to the game and each other. To use the terminology from 3.5 balancing, all of them are "Tier 3". They are designed to be very effective in their fields, while still being useful in others. Classes get unique abilities and actually interesting abilities, rather than exclusively getting a +1 to X, or even the dead levels that existed in 3.5.

For example, the Assassin class (Class focused on stealth/social/combat ability) has abilities that let you make a Disguise check or an Ambush check as a free action every so often. Running from the guards? Run around a corner and you can instantly disguise yourself, so they go running haplessly by. The same class also gets an ability called "Cold Read", which lets you ask the GM personal details about a character, and learn the answer to them (or have the target spend a resource to prevent the learning of said details). These are both granted early on, this aren't by any means capstones.

Each class has useful abilities and different abilities from other classes (There are a few areas of overlap, such as more than one class getting Evasion or Uncanny Dodge, and several getting bonus feats), and they stand out as distinct from one another. In addition, there are various levels of specificity you can enter into. You can play a Soldier for maximum murdering, a Courtier for maximum social ability, or something in between, with a Lancer and a Captain, who both get a bit of each.

In addition -although this last one is less class on its own, and more a combination of the tweak to BaB, usage of skills, and feat choices - any class can contribute in combat, even if you pick a non-combat class. And there's a good chance combat characters can contribute outside of combat as well.

>awesome feats/distinct weapons

These are a bit tied to each other. Weapons are distinct from each other by being placed into subgroups, and in each subgroup, are distinct from one other by their varying qualities, rather than simply damage die, a rare extra ability, or crit range/multiplier.

For instance, in the knives category, you have a standard dagger (which can be thrown without penalty), a Hook (which gives you a bonus to disarming), a Stiletto (With lower damage, but absolutely absurd Armor Penetration), a main gauche (which offers a bonus to Defense), and a razor (which can cause bleeding, and has Excruciating, which causes Stress damage to the target due to the pain), among others.

Each of these has actual qualities which set it apart from the other weapons, not merely different damage values. In addition to those differences, weapon groups actually play thematically and differently from each other, when coupled with feats. Each weapon group has a feat tree of 3 feats to represent it.

Knife feat tree starts off by giving you the really, really good ability of "all the knives on your person are considered armed at all times.". Got a knife in your sleeve? You can pop it out and attack with it. Got a knife in your boot? It's in your hand. Got a knife tucked in the belt behind you? Ready to go. It also gives you a Stance (enter it to gain passive benefits) that lets you deal an extra 2d6 of sneak attack damage on one-handed melee attacks (So not only knives).
The rest of the feat tree lets you feint an enemy you've stabbed (rendering them flat-footed, and susceptible to sneak attack), an ability that lets you deal extra damage if your attack is exceptionally high, and an ability that lets you instantly kill a standard (mook) character with an attack.

In short, the knife feat trees benefit a playstyle of many weapons, sneak attack, and the general things that come to mind when you think of knives.

That's just one of the feat trees. Whip Basics/Mastery/Supremacy lets you trip people and pull them towards you when you attack them, deal extra damage when you haven't attacked recently, get extra reach out of your whip, manipulate objects at a distance, deal double consequences when you deal Stress damage with your whips, and change the type of damage your whip attacks do at will between Stress, Subdual, and Lethal. This gives a utility and intimidating fighting style to whips.

Swords are massive damage.
Greatswords are area control and crowd fighting.
Axes are destruction of property and cutting down enemies.
Staff is heavily defensive.
Shield is obviously defensive, while giving buffs to allies and some combat utility and area control.
Fencing Blades let your opponent break themselves upon you and get destroyed by their aggression.
Club, Hammer, Spear, Polearm, Flail, along with the missile weapons (Black Powder, Hurled, Bow, Siege Weapon) all have their own stylistic feat trees.

Unarmed has like 15 different feat trees that can apply to it, making it the most versatile feat-wise, although it suffers compared to other weapons in many respects.

This is part of what makes the feats so useful, although other feats in general are useful. The Skill Mastery feat tree could have easily simply been a static bonus to the skill modifier of a single skill, as it was in 3.5, or to two skills, as it was in Pathfinder, but they took it further, by giving multiple abilities. The first feat simply gives a +2 bonus to a specific pair of skills, and increases the Threat Range by 1, but the second gives an additional +1 bonus and +1 threat range, and allows you to confirm your critical threats for free (Normally, a resource must be spent to confirm critical threats or enemy errors). The third feat gives another +1 bonus and +1 threat range, and lets you reroll a check in those two skills every so often.

Besides the utility and comparative power of feats, they are also easier to obtain. The vast majority of feats have no prerequisites at all, and those that do typically only have another feat as a prerequisite, or no more than 2-3 non-feat prerequisites. There is no BaB cap or level restriction (Besides feats that logically can only be taken at level 1, like species sub-species feats or other things intrinsic to what your character is). Of the feats I described above, in many cases, you can take the full 3-feat tree at level 1.

>Useful items
I'm not sure what /exactly/ he meant by this, but items are pretty useful. I think he might have been getting at the fact that items can grant mechanical bonuses in addition to their ordinary usage. A blanket will grant you protection from Cold damage, comfort food will give you a bonus to saves for 8 hours, even a game will allow you to heal stress damage faster. It makes items more useful than simply "Uh, I guess I'll buy some torches or something."
In addition, the usage of the Lifestyle system gives you Prudence, which takes a portion of the cash you obtain in your adventures as "living expenses/sent back home/gambled away/donated to charity", which allows you to forego tracking minutiae of paying for cart rides, inn stays, booze, etc (Although you totally can if you want to).
Also, things like scrolls and potions are very useful.

>Monster creation
Monster creation uses a sort of point-buy system, where you build up a monster, which gains EXP as you add features, statistics, attributes, and things like spells or attacks. It's a build-your-own system, that allows you to make damn near anything you want with it. I've built Pikachu, Star Platinum, Adolf Hitler, and a mech in it (just for the hell of it, not necessarily to use those all in a game), and if you use the web NPC maker tool, it takes seconds to minutes. The EXP value is literally translated into the EXP the party gains for beating them.

In addition, there is a scaling feature, where you assign monsters a Threat Level (TL) based on the party's average level. This does away with CR for the most part, as any monster can face the party at any level. It isn't a perfect scaling like something out of Skyrim, though, so some monsters will be pushovers at higher levels, despite being a competent threat at low, and some monsters will be drastic overkill at low levels, like a Red Dragon. This is because players gain abilities as they level, in addition to higher numbers, while scaling an enemy you otherwise leave unchanged only increases the numbers. Because Fantasycraft has both vertical and horizontal growth, monsters can stay almost relevant, which both scales combat, but allows the party to feel as if they've grown.

No shit?

I mostly said there wasn't much beyond core because my flgs guru of all things tabletop told me this when I asked what more I could buy to expand on the first book. His answer was literally "Jack shit.".

I'll have to add all of those to my list when I have some time and money on hand.

My basic point, though, was that even if it had 20 books to go with it, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the top 10 systems/settings out there.

I personally craft my settings from nothing as I've always got more ideas than groups to GM for, so FC core has been all I've needed. Though 8/10 of the groups I've been a player in just chain together modules or adventure paths with flimsy rails connecting them. In that situation it's easy to see why they'd choose 3.pf over FC when Paizo and WotC related releases are counted in books per-week instead of per-???

Definitely pick up the Adventure Companion. The settings in it are pretty good, and there are also a considerable amount of useful feats (including a bunch of species feats, including stuff that lets you be a half-elf/half-orc, etc.).

It also has the Emissary (Spymaster, Skill/Stealth/Social class) and Martial Artist(Like a Monk, except good), along with a few expert classes:
Bloodsworn (Bodyguard Expert class, specialize in protecting a specified person).
Deadeye (Sniper Expert Class, bonuses with bows and black powder),
Force of Nature(Unarmed combat, elemental powers)
Gallant (Social, combat, with fancy tricks)
Monk (Sort of a martial arts priest. Get a new, fancy path, and bonus benefits if you follow a set of guidelines.)
Monster Slayer(Exactly what it says on the box)

As well as Master Classes, which are described in the core book, but none actually are in the core book:

Dragon Lord (Become a dragon, or if already a dragon, become a person)
Regent (Be a King)
Spirit Singer (Bard/Priest mix of support class)
Wind Knight (Ride flying shit. bit of support, bit of combat.)

The feats are also really neato, as well.

>If you have the money and want to support the game

rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/63884/Fantasy-Craft-Second-Printing

>If you want to try before you buy

mediafire.com/download/rscnai437ptu23k/FantasyCraft.torrent

mediafire.com/folder/nzs6xsnzbid4t/Fantasy_Craft

dropbox.com/sh/5dkzgw3cn842eyw/AACivEvWTEODXQgsjBPsHv8wa?dl=0

Other useful links:

>Errata & accessories

crafty-games.com/fantasy-craft-print-bundle/

>Web NPC builder

meadicus.plus.com/craftygames/npc-builder/NPCBuilder.html

>Custom PC Species creation guides

sletchweb.wikidot.com/fc-origin-creation

>Species feat creation guide & reference spreadsheet

crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8257.msg160117#msg160117

dl.dropbox.com/u/1016700/species feats.xls

>Class design guidelines

crafty-games-fans.wikia.com/wiki/Class_Creation_Guidelines_(Mastercraft)

>Leaked Spellbound Preview

drive.google.com/file/d/0B7JqPtKRnUBYTkF0YlYxNllQN0hXY0V2c01xa1QzWGd6OF9J/view

Is the monk actually useful?

Martial Artist is your dnd monk equivalent, and it's a combat monster. FC's Monk is more like an unarmed Buddhist paladin, and is still pretty good.

It's more than a smattering, really, when you consider how flexible each statblock is between TL scaling, templates, and simple tweaking. A lot of the content in 3.PF monster manuals is basically filler, essentially the same thing with stats beefed up to challenge a higher-level party. It's essentially the same mechanics with a new coat of paint. In FC, you don't need separate entries in the bestiary for that sort of thing; you just have to increase the TL.

Then there are templates. Some of FC's templates are basically templates in the 3.PF style (often outright conversions of templates in the SRD): Heavenly, Infernal, Lich, Ghostly, Risen, Skeletal, Vampire. But then you've got Alpha, Ancient, Dire, Immature, and Predatory, which serve not so much to change the *type* of creature, but rather more its abilities and tactics. So not only can you use TL scaling to differentiate enemies, you can throw on templates to make elite or advanced versions which, in 3.PF, would be an entirely separate listing in the bestiary.

There are 193 monsters (counting the summons in the Grimoire chapter) and the 5 templates I mentioned previously that aren't quite the same as how 3.PF use templates. That makes 965 possible monsters, just considering use of only one of these templates at a time, and not considering how TL can change it. And 30 of these (from Call from Beyond and Nature's Ally) are generic statblocks, designed for reskinning all manner of ways.

And the rogue templates allow for a great variety of player race NPCs that frankly 3.PF just doesn't provide at all -- they simply make you go to the hassle of building an NPC through the whole class-and-level process, which is vastly more work than even making an NPC from scratch in FC, let alone picking a rogue statblock and applying a race template. With 39 rogue statblocks and 11 race templates, that's 429 possible NPCs -- more if you also apply monster templates like Alpha, Ancient, or Predatory!

Then on top of all that, it's trivial to throw little custom twists on a monster -- which is what a great many statblocks in 3.PF's bestiaries are, when they're not merely the same thing with bigger numbers. For instance, the basic 3.5 monster manual has hydras, cryohydras, and pyrohydras, of varying number of heads for each. FC really has no need of that; it just needs one hydra statblock, and if you want a pyrohydra it's as simple as adding appropriate Damage Immunities and Achilles Heel, and making the bites deal fire damage -- an extremely simple process that tells you right out roughly what the impact is going to be (by way of the XP total).

Similarly, you can turn a statblock into all manner of different things just by swapping or adding a few details. I once converted the demons and devils from the SRD, and frankly the majority of them were pretty much just the same basic statblock with one or two different skills and special attacks. In FC, you don't really need separate statblocks for that sort of thing. Add some Sneak, sneak attack, and poison to your anarchy demon, and boom -- assassin demon! Easy peasy.

This is all without going deep into the NPC creation system and making something entirely from scratch. It's also using the core book only for numbers; Adventure Companion adds another 27 monsters (including some conspicuous absences from core, like centaurs) and 9 rogues -- which, multiplied by the templating possibilities as described in my previous post, is another 135 monsters and 99 NPCs (really far more since they can also use multiple templates and be differentiated by TL).

There are still a few noteworthy holes in FC's bestiary (eg, lycanthropes), but there's certainly no lack of variety available despite the seeming smallness of the list.

>As much emphasis as we in the hobby put on unique world building, the majority would prefer a pick-up-and-go adventure to kick off a more custom campaign.
Honestly, as much as it baffles me personally, this is sadly the truth. One need only look at the popularity of organized module-based play like PFS to see that there's a big chunk of the tabletop RP market that FC simply isn't equipped to tap into.

Though really, even aside from that, I do think it suffers most from a simple lack of publicity. It's not very well known, and since it's a D&D derivative it has a lot more of an uphill battle to get noticed than something that really strikes out to do its own thing. This is a big part of why Crafty focuses more on Spycraft and Mistborn as their bread-and-butter lines, rather than FC -- those games hit at particular niches that aren't already dominated by an existing big name, unlike FC which has to compete with the giants of D&D and PF.

bump

Martial Artist is the "Monk" you'd see in 3.Pathfinder. It's the Base Class (Level 1 to 20), and there is the Monk, an Expert Class (Basically a Prestige class, take anywhere from level 5 and up).

Martial Artist gets the Martial Arts feat for free, ignoring the prerequisites. This gives your unarmed attacks +2 damage, +1 crit threat range, and lets you select any of your attributes to use in place of STR for Unarmed attack checks, and Dex for Defense.

There is a second feat to that, Master's Art, which gives an additional +2 damage and +1 threat range, and lets you use the same attribute for Unarmed Damage and Initiative.

Martial Artist gives you increased Reach on melee and unarmed attacks, a variety of useful abilities you can pick from, at a glance, abilities that give your unarmed attacks Armor Piercing, let you Sprawl an enemy on an attack if they fail a fort save, let you spend a full round action to trip all enemies in 10 feet (Quake Strike), A +4 bonus to taunt/Tire actions, or a +4 bonus to Intimidate/Distract checks, Resistance to Subdual damage, the ability to deal minor damage to an enemy even on a miss, and several other abilities, that you can pick one of every couple of levels.

That's just one class feature.

Pic related.

They also get a variety of other benefits, like Wuxia, that lets you ignore the limit on jump checks, then later, weigh only 1 lb for determining if something can hold you.

You also get a massively useful ability, called Master's Touch, which lets you use Tricks for Unarmed attacks to weapons, and vice versa, and also use two tricks on a single attack (normally you are limited to one). So, you could have the Blade Flurry trick that deals double damage if you roll 4+ their defense, and triple if you roll 10+, then you can apply that to your fist instead, and also apply the Entwine whip attack trick, that lets you trip them and draw them next to you if they fail an Acrobatics check.

So, you can combine the two and do some sort of Scorpion style punch that deals massive damage and drags them to you. By level 10, when you get that, your Reach on unarmed attacks is at least 2.

At level 20, that jumps to 3 tricks on any attack, and you can use any weapon's attack trick with any other weapon's attack. This lets you do some absolutely fucking absurd shit.