Pathfinder General - /pfg/

I love using Pathfinder in Eberron, myself.

The Vierra posting kinda makes me want to do Ivalice, though. Granted, the two settings do share some similarities; mainly the technology.

Haven't found a good Pathdiner-Athas (Dark Sun) version.
Or Maztica.

There are 3.5 versions, and that means that there are PF versions, because it's the same system with very minor changes.

Slightly modified from the looks of it, the black sea is altered, the Bosporus has been smushed and then Iberia has crashed into France, and then Iceland decided to take a swim over to Norway.

Not really. The changes may SEEM minor, but there are tons of them.

Did Matzica get a 3.X release? I have only ever be enable to find second edition?

A T-rex with the vampire template seems pretty scary. It loses a chunk of HP since its health would be based on its CHA instead of CON but that's probably more than made up for by its DR and Fast Healing. Does a creature count as pinned if the T-rex uses its Swallow Whole ability on someone- would it get to use its Blood Drain on someone it has swallowed?

Just how powerful are Mythic Ranks?
I can't really get a proper grasp on it.

Depends on your path, what you pick, and how it syngergizes with your build.
Like I was going to take the champion one in a mythic game, take the mythic power so crit damage is always maximized, then use it with the strike that allows you to automatically hit and threaten, or with a cyclopse helm even in a pinch, using a firearm so X4 crits, and a boost to either mirror the strike or just auto confirm if I feel I needed it.

Depends on what you take.

They're either ridiculous or just mediocre. I mean, you usually get 5ish health per rank, plus potential access to mythic spells, but it's not a enormous game changer without the right choices or associated items.

I would rule that it does, to be honest. Its bite has a grab component, and it adds double strength to bites. Technically you have to be pinned to blood drain, but it gets to bite and drain.
The interaction isn't RAW, but you make a second grapple check and take bite damage on the way down, so it would require GM fiat, but it's pretty reasonable.

Wait, which strike allows you to auto hit/threaten?

Because that'd be ridiculous with a bless weapon.

If a Contract Devil appeared before your hypothetical character, would you take the 3 wishes or the infernal slave? Whichever one you'd pick, please elaborate on what you'd do. How would you phrase the wishes to not get fucked? What kind of slave would you pick?
Would you just not take the deal because it's likely to fuck you over too much?
This is pretty important so I'd appreciate some opinions.

Which path would you recommend for a Juju Oracle trying to be both a necromancer and a save-or-get-fucked caster?
Marshal looks nice for the necromancer part...

>Accepting an infernal contract

Neither character of mine would take that offer, deals with devils always tend to screw you in the end no matter how you word it there are loop holes.
Level 7 Tempest Gale Hunting Zephyr
Discipline: Tempest Gale (Strike)
Level: 7
Prerequisites: Two Tempest Gale maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Ranged attack
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
As a master of the Tempest Gale, you never miss your mark; each shot is perfect. Make a ranged attack. This attack automatically hits, threatens a critical hit, and cannot be negated by a counter or other defensive ability activated as an immediate action (such as the emergency force sphere spell or a similar effect). It deals weapon damage as normal.

They seem minor because they are minor, user. The primary changes are some minor stuff to SoS/SoLs, skills, very minor adjustments to feats, and a few PC class feature tweaks. Aside from that, most 3.5 stuff converts on an almost 1:1 basis.

Off the top of my head archmage?

Trickster, Marshal and Guardian are mostly traps.

Take Hierophant, take Inspired spell, Undead Master/Mythic Eschew Materials.

That's a terrible idea, user.

Ahh, ranged only. Unfortunately wouldn't work for me, I'll have to stick with Cyclops and Blessed Weapon.

Haven given it some thought, the undead master/mythic eschew can wait.

What kind of necromancer do you want to be?

The tons of skeletons/zombies kind? Go for Mythic Animate Undead via the feat choice.

>the DM pulls a 'several more enemies appear from places
>they came from the south and the east door which were fairly close to each other
>4 enemies surrounding my Animal Companion
>the DM has bullshit rolls and all 4 of them hit and do high damage
>Companion goes from slightly less than full to dead in one round
>no chance to even take his body for burial as the entire building was lit on fire by our resident insane wizard and I had to chose between dragging his corpse out or dragging out the blinded and stunned Magus (who was stunned because the wizard decided to hit him with colour spray)

Rest in peace Barry the Bear

I fucking hate wizards

Sweet, here I thought I was the only one who liked pre-Spellplague Faerun.

BTW, how much would you improve fighters' attack, damage and combat maneuver bonuses so they can compare well to other PF martials, and what else would you give them to utility?

I am mulling some experimental stuff for mid/high level and one thing I was wondering about is greater WF /WSpec doubling all class and feat bonuses to attack and damage, instead of another +1/+2. I was also planning to supercharge stamina and weapon/armor training, and desu my biggest worry is that it will make the current outliers (archery and two-handed weapons) even more powerful. Then again... if fighters do more damage, so what?

Currently running reign of winter. Last session ended while they were n the Astoria dungeon. It was the second time the encountered the main witch, in the mother section of the dungeon.

Problem: they just almost got their ass kicked by the giant demon spider thing, and so at level 7 they finally realized that invisibility is a great way to explore rooms.

The witch has no way to deal with invisibility.

The paladin identified that she was evil with his move action thing, so a corungun smash paladin and a aberrant bloodrager proceed to murder the shit out of her before she even got an action. They got a surprise round, and she kinda rolled low initiative so they got to go again, and you don't just survive hasted full attacks like that...

If she got a single round she could have done some stuff, but I see no way she could have lasted more than four turns.

Will I just need to basically re-build bosses to be less stupid? Any suggestions for this? I don't want to throw a scry+die at them, but I want the fights to at least be hard.

Fighters do fine damage. PLENTY of damage. They don't have pounce but that is it. The problem with fighters is not their damage.

Generally speaking, the "kind" of Necromancer I'm aiming for is the "piece of shit Lich you can't get rid of that keeps ravaging everything with it's ever-growing undead horde."
Looking to free and team up with The Whispering Tyrant to get all kinds of necromancy protips before I eventually grow past him and stab him in the back. The endgame for this character is achieving godhood and slaying an already established god. Probably won't work, but hey, ambition is good, right?
In due time, mind. I'm patient.

They can do good damage, but a lot of other martials do more AND more besides. I was thinking of other things in terms of defense, control and limited utility, but I was looking for something to boost their mid-game combat potential without having to rely on another class to buff them.

What do you consider the biggest problems and how would you remedy them while keeping them as "pure"martials? I do not want to have to resort to PoWar.

I didnt see a boot just a big landpenis

I only found the "Empire of the Dying Sun" which to be fair was decent.

This.

Same goes for Dark Sun.

I never played 4th Ed. but I kn ow they did have Dark Sun for that but I haven't got a clue as to whether it was OK or not.

My muscle wizard build, not with items and skills.

The Iron Age
Wizard 5/Alchemist 1 VMC Battle Oracle

Stats w/o buff cycle:
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

Stats w/ buff cycle:
Str: 30
Dex: 12
Con: 20
Int: 16
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

without buffs/with buffs
HP: 56/74

Without buffs/with buffs
AC:22/30

Saves:
without buffs/with buffs
Fort: +8/11
Ref:+5/+5
Will: +8/+10

+2 against divination

Traits:
Transmuter
Well Hidden
Magical Knack

Drawback:
Overprotective

Feats:
Human: Tribal Scars (Sloth Jaw)
Wizard Bonus: Scribe Scroll
1st: Toughness
3rd: VMC
5th: Power Attack
Wizard Bonus: Extend Spell
Alchemist Bonus: Brew Potion

Curse: Merciful
Revelation: Skill At Arms
Lay on Hands: 1d6 1/day

Arcane Bond: Familiar, Rat w/ Protector&Sage
School: Enhancement Transmutation
Opposition Schools: Illusion & Enchantment

Standard Buffs: Bear's Endurance + Bull's Strength + Haste + Monstrous Physique I + Rage + Enhancement School Power + Shield + Magic Weapon + Long Arm

Gear:
+1 Fullplate - 2650gp
+1 Cloak of Resistance - 1000gp
Extra Spells (30 lvl 1, 15 lvl 2, 10 lvl 3) - 2700gp
Sipping Jacket - 5000gp
Wand of Cure Light Wounds - 750gp
Wand of Mudball - 750gp
Wand of Lead Blades - 750gp

Skills:
Spellcraft - +12
Profession (Herbalist) - +10
Craft (Alchemy) - +12
Appraise - +12
Use Magic Device- +9
Linguistics - +12

Sage Familiar:
+6 to all knowledge skills except Arcane & Nature
+7 to Arcane & Nature

With all his buffs his attacks do this:
To hit: +13 (with power attack)
1d12+19 (with power attack)

2400gp left, what else should I buy? Any other suggestions? At level 7 I plan to take a level in Vigilante with the Brute Archetype. Is there any way to cast spells as a Brute? If I don't become a Brute I will be a Cabalist instead so I cast from the witch, wizard, and alchemist lists.

Well, as far as defense goes, fighter is definitely the weak link of the martials. +5 save vs. fear at 18 is pretty meaningless compared to a pally's Divine Grace, multiple immunities, and LoH, and the barb can tank magic with the Superstition tree and melee with Invulnerable Rager's DR = 1/2 level when he's not one-shotting big threats with a ragepounce in the first round.

Fighters can add Bravery to all will saves now by forgoing a weapon training group at Fghiter/9 or greater.

I'm not reading a wizard build.

Armed Bravery is pretty nice, but it is still pretty weaksauce compared to the kind of protection you can get from things like Divine Grace and Superstition.

I still don't understand why so many martials have bad reflex saves. You're a fucking warrior, you have good reflexes!

That's the issue, it looks like a boot in the real world because it's north to south.

But when they identify it as a boot, people think, 'wait, like italy' and turn their head sideways.

I showed this to a friend, and he started and tilted his head when he got to that bit, because it doesn't naturally look like a boot from that angle.

How are you expecting to cast those arcane spells in full plate?

Are there any traits other than Rich Parents that lets you start with a free Masterwork weapon?
I'm building a character with a weapon that's a family heirloom and want to eventually enchant it later on in the game.

Or should I just wait for 5th level to have a caster use Masterwork Transformation on it and then enchant it from there?

There's literally a trait that lets you start with a masterwork item worth less than X gp.
I forget the name.
Signature Item, I think?

the gp price to fix it later is way cheaper then the trait cost to start with it.

I just looked it up, its Signature Moves from Bastards of Golarion. Thanks user

This is a good point, plus it would free me up to grab a Campaign Trait instead.

Looking through Mythic Feats...
Casters get literally upgraded metamagic feats and can spend mythic power to cast the normal versions of those metamagic feats without actually having to, like, cast it longer or expend higher spell slots or whatever.
Gosh, how is my Wizard meant to compete with this Rogue? Thanks to Mythic, he can attack, like, 8 times per full-attack! All I'VE got is 4 casts of Maximized Echoing Empowered Meteor Swarm! This is unfair.

Fighter's Reflexes gets their Weapon Training bonus to Reflex, including bonuses from Gloves of Dueling.

>>not dazing meteor swarm

Shaking my head to be honest family

The mythic MM feats are 3rd party.

Because, user.

>Nobody could move freely in that clunky suit of armor!

Heirloom use to do it, but I think it was errata'd to only give you a non-masterwork item. Or maybe that was just a PFS ruling, I'm not sure.

The trait's still decent though, especially because the Masterwork Transformation spell exists so you can actually make the weapon masterwork and then magic later on. Do your pappy proud with the same shitty sword his father left for him, and also still be able to eventually make said sword not shitty.

Do people actually use Dazing Metamagic without it being banned or just totally wrecking everything? How does the DM play around it, just give everything massive save bonuses/rerolls?

>The trait's still decent though
No.

I don't know why 3E did it that way, either. Didn't 2E fighters use to have pretty good saving throws?

I'm not. All the spells will be cast before the full plate is donned. The campaign mainly has the idea that combat with be gladiatorial. When I don't have time to buff and put on the full plate I instead focus on no save battlefield control.

Well it's actually a Wizard, Alchemist, Vigilante, Oracle, Paladin.

>naw man I don't want free proficiency with whatever weapon I want and one of two minor bonuses to go with it for the price of a trait that also happens to be flavorful

I mean, hey, I don't tell people how to have fun. You do you, but I stand by what I said. It's a decent trait.

The issue is that it's proficiency with THAT ONE WEAPON.

Not Longswords. THAT Longsword. You know how pappy's longsword works, but somefucking how, other longswords are mysterious, arcane constructs that befuddle your mind.

Yeah, I'll agree that's weird but it's also not something you can't easily work around. Unless your DM is in the habit of destroying or stealing your weapons, I guess.

Donning full plate takes 1 minute per level. Rage and haste only last round per level, which is doubled by extend spell. Even if you have help and don it hastily, they'll still run out before you're even in armor. The rest are 1 minute per level which may sound decent, but even if it's gladiatorial combat in an arena or the like, I don't see how you expect to reliably be able to start fighting within minutes of needing to be ready to fight - especially when, taking into account buffing time, donning the armor and needing to get from where you don the armor to where you actually fight(again, assuming this is some sort of arena) will take at least 5 minutes. I don't see the organizers being particularly glad to have to delay the fight just because you need to wait until last minute before you can get ready to fight.

It takes 4 minutes to put on full plate.

I'm not sure of your caster level, but I'm guessing it's 5. So if you cast all 9 spells and put on your armor, you will have one round to act before those buffs start running out.

>Donning full plate takes 1 minute per level.
Meant to write: Donning full plate takes 4 minutes

There is only one answer, OP.

>free proficiency with whatever weapon I want and one of two minor bonuses to go with it for the price of a trait that also happens to be flavorful
first off there are three choices, you get one. proficiency is one of the choices and a shit choice at that. half a feat for proficiency with one single specific weapon. no thanks.
second, the other two choices are +1 trait bonus on AoO. which is pretty shitty for a trait. the other bonus is +2 to a specific combat maneuver when using that specific weapon. the only option that might be worth thinking about maybe if it gave you +2 to a combat maneuver with a type of weapon. maybe
third. you still have to pay for the fucking weapon.
aint that some bullshit.

It would take 15 damage to sunder your weapon.

You would be surprised what helpless babes fighters turn into when you take their toys. It's why I always carry a non-magical variant of my main weapon in case.

"Son... son come closer. I want you to take my sword... take it with you, keep it close..."
"Gosh, dad. I'll make you proud!"
"I know you will, son... I know you will... that'll be 50 gold."

See this is why those spells can't be used in conjunction with the fullplate. I have thought about changing out extend spell for instead having craft magical arms & armor. Then I can afford folding plate.

> I don't see how you expect to reliably be able to start fighting within minutes of needing to be ready to fight - especially when, taking into account buffing time, donning the armor and needing to get from where you don the armor to where you actually fight(again, assuming this is some sort of arena) will take at least 5 minutes.
I know about the gladiatorial fights days in advance. I enter the arena after I am announced already buffed.

How often do you see a match where they wait more than 5 minutes after the fighters enter the arena to actually start the fight?

Half the spells are min/level and I have a 6 caster level because of magical knack. I can extend some of the spells to 5 min.

However like I said I am considering getting craft magical arms and armor to make folding plate. Casting the spells then just unfolding the plate right before combat begins.

Actually if I extend the transmutation spells they last 14 minutes because of Transmuter the trait.

Seems like a waste of a feat just to take it so you can craft one specific item and then probably never use the feat again. See if your DM will just let you buy it instead.

>How often do you see a match where they wait more than 5 minutes after the fighters enter the arena to actually start the fight?

They wait at the entrance for the previous fight to finish, for the announcers to do their thing, for the bodies to get cleaned out, and so on. Things rarely if ever go exactly as planned, which is exactly why you can't wait until exactly 5 minutes before entering the arena to start preparing unless you're prepared to make the audience wait 5 minutes.

>want to play a Mesmerist so badly and I don't even know why

Does anyone else have a class they just can't stop thinking about for no good reason?

>Do people actually use Dazing Metamagic without it being banned or just totally wrecking everything? How does the DM play around it, just give everything massive save bonuses/rerolls?

I use a staff of the master so it's the persisted stuff that is really dangerous. That being said, I have a lesser dazing rod for other things e.g. fireball, persisted snapdragon fireworks (cast as standard then shoot a firework as a move action for rounds/level, DC is low but your action economy is amazing and the enemy has to roll twice). Dazing spells are entirely able to end and encounter though, especially if you put them on stuff like chain lightning or other blasting spells since the DC's are high and dazing lasts for a number of rounds equal to the spell level. Sirocco is a personal favourite of mine.

Most touching death scene ever, would surprise-end novel with

Paladin/oracle gestalt.

God damn that cha synergy. PoW feats for some manoeuvres to boost melee damage output if needed, such as Black Seraph's Glare (swift to enter stance, free intimidate with +4 if you deal damage, combine with hurtful feat to get another attack at full BAB), maybe the lore mystery but life link does look incredibly good.

Armorists.

I have no idea why, their entire gimmick outside of archetypes is 'I have stuff', but I dunno.

Armorists, man.

Yep, fighters had all good saving throws

My spells with extend last 14 minutes if they are transmutation. If I have the folding plate I can wait up until I expect the fight is roughly a minute off and begin casting. I budget in advance so as to not be caught off guard.

At worse if I screw up and begin getting announced before I cast anything, I only get to cast 4 essentially buffs while I am being announced for roughly 10 seconds an make them wait another 14 before I emerge (the folding plate unfolding as I do).

Can't afford it at this level. I will use it later to make magic weapons for the muscle wizard, as well as more armor, and eventually an animated shield.

Why did we lose this?

Fighters have every reason to have all good saves.

I'm pretty comfortable in my role as the group's go-to murderbeast, but one of these days, I will go bard and give not even the smallest of fucks.

Of course, I should probably figure out how to build one first.

Forgetting all other Fighter problems and assuming they could be fixed on their own, should Fighters have gotten one good save of their choice, or two? I mean they definitely should get to pick, that's a given.

If you super don't want to give them all good saves, then good will, and they get to choose fort or reflex.

But seriously. All good.

But that's for monks. Fighter is now all about each build being a completely different kind of specialist character concept from each other - they are brutes, duelists, archers, etc.

Didn't UC monk lose their Will save, though?

I don't think Fighters should get to pick their good save. They should have two good saves, Fort and Ref.

They should keep their bonus against fear, and it should shore them up so it is as if they have a good save again fear effects. However they should otherwise not be as difficult to mentally encroach upon as characters based on mental prowess.

Yes, but all three aspects of saves are crucial to the rigors of combat.

Endurance, Agility, and Willpower. All are necessary.

I feel like Fighters should, by default, have all good saves.

Then, if you wanted to make a duelist-type character, you could take the duelist archetype, which kills your fort save in exchange for something else.

Yes they did.

They did.

They shouldn't have, since all good saves is kinda their THING, but they did because someone didn't want them to get the Umonk's boost AND have all good saves.

You can get weak-willed wizards as easily as weak-willed warriors.

On a side note use chosen child not rich parents.

The problem with fighters isn't their damage, it's that their class feature is feats (to which massive feat taxes are then appended on to anything they might actually want to do).

They don't have an actual class feature, because other classes get features *AND* feats *AND* things that are utility. fighters just get feats.

>I feel like Fighters should, by default, have all good saves.
All are essentially to combat, but every class is based around the concept that they are going to be thrown into a roil of combat. That is why 85% of all class features are combat based.

A fighter as their flavor is brave, does not flee from combat, but has not trained their mind to be resistant to attack.

I believe bravery should start at 1st level and go up by 1 every three levels.

I believe Advanced Weapon & Advanced Armor training should be given IN ADDITION to the normal as simply part of the class. With you receiving one even when you first get weapon/armor training.

Those three changes alone bring them to on part with other martials. If anything it would make them simply better than barbarians.

Being a wizard requires mental training in the form of learning one's spells. Being a fighter does not require nearly as much exercise of the mind.

A fighter fights with his body, a wizard fights with his mind. A fighter's body is more resistant to attack, a wizard's mind is more resistant to attack.

If I were to choose I would change many more things about the system, including how derived numbers come from stats. However that is not what we are talking about.

>tfw the Paladin's player suggested to me that my character and her's would make an adorable couple

Has this ever happened to you lads? Players shipping characters? Personally, I think it's very cute.

Weapon Training & Armor Training are class features. Which is why Advanced Weapon & Armor Training should be inherent to fighters.

Receive them alongside the normal would shore them up, may actually push them pass barbarians.

I said more here

Yeah, to me it was a WTH moment. Of all the things they could touch, the will save and HD were the least important. They already made the brawler, who had a d10 HD and good fort and reflex... Sure, monks have a good wisdom, but paladins have divine grace AND pathfinder gave them a good will save. I just houserule it in any game I run.

Bravery is a good concept, but the values kill it 1+ 1/4 levels is way too little on a specialized save. Considering that a lot of class features add 1/2 your class level to X, I am very surprised bravery was made weaker, and that there was no unchained fighter to take care of business. Instead, they had to make the barbarian simpler...eh.

PF fighters get some features, but I would say that the problem is that they have very few of them and that there aren't many good feats at mid/high levels fighters can choose.

At level 12, a barbarian can pounce. What is a fighter-only feat at that level? Greater Weapon Specialization for +2 damage. Yes, fighters have some critical feats and can stack two of them, but there are still very few feats that can compare with the sort of class features most classes get on high levels.

>roll20 campaign had promise
>player begged GM to let his girlfriend join and now things have been quiet for days
Welp.

What is the purpose of eldritch knight? It seems pretty bad.

Are there any prestige classes that fill the same purpose as eldritch knight (caster/martial fusion), but aren't horse shit?

I really get the impression that Fighter was one of, if not THE first class Paizo looked at when making PF, and they hadn't quite gotten a handle on how much they wanted to give people.

Like, they hadn't found their balance point, such as it was. It's the first child raised when the parents had no fucking idea what they were doing, while they had learned somewhat for the later children.

Then one of the parents got embroiled in work and never sees them anymore, and they're taken care of by their stupid relatives.

>A fighter fights with his body, a wizard fights with his mind.

A wizard fights with magic, which they learn with their mind. They're not psions. There's no reason to assume the process of learning something also makes your mind more resilient.

It was a legacy gish option from 3.5. It is a full BAB class with 9/10 casting but without the tricks the magus has. Then again, at the time there WAS no magus.