Tabletop games will never be enjoyable because someone will lose. Either the dm or the players...

But DF taught me that losing is !FUN!

Oh I'm aware. Remind yourself that you are in fact gay.

I'm guessing you've never made a purposely flawed character, or even a non-Edgelord antagonist with the intent of losing to drive a good story have you? Shit is the best. Knowing your plans are ultimately doomed is god damn true freedom, but you play that shit out in a way that will drag the whole story and team into a crucible so they can come out the other side with a story to share and a bond wellforged.

Cant believe im responding to this bait but competition does not equal no fun. The only people who think this is fags who cant stand to lose, and are unable to take satisfaction in the struggle.

>Tabletop games
>dm or the players

That's tabletop rpgs, you mong.

If you know it's bait, why are you responding?

Losing is fun only in a game of pretend

I have issues.

This just in, games are not fun.

>implying Rei isn't best girl

This is why no-one likes sports
You've figured it out

That is wrong on several levels.
But it's an okay bait thread.

You're the kid who cries when he/she doesn't get a participation ribbon, aren't you?

Stories will never be enjoyable because someone will lose. Either the narrator or the audience. Therefore its a bad media because it forces a competion.

Any game that fosters engagement will by definition be unenjoyable.

>pen and papers are GM vs players

This is stupid thinking.

>Tabletop games will never be enjoyable because someone will lose. Either the dm or the players.
Are you retarded?

>Intentional Logical fallacies

>everyone must win all the time

Such is the rise of Progressivism

...

>losing is bad
>everyone should win
>muh poor baby shouldn't lose
>tfw you raise people to be manchildren

But the DM can't lose. As a DM I am a facilitator to the players. Yes, I play the enemies, but I also play the people they meet, describe the situations they find themselves in and craft the world around them.

Tabletops are not played to be won or lost, they are played to tell a story, whether it be one of glorious victory or horrifying defeat.

I don't know why I took this bait post seriously.

Shut up stupid.

LOSING IS FUN

>everyone should win at pretend
>competition is not enjoyable

The participation trophy generation

If you really, genuinely play the game as DM versus the Players then yeah, sure. Specifically it will not be entertaining for the majority of players because the DM has much more at their disposal with which to win, though some people may find the challenge to be stimulating.

Thing is, the DM doesn't have to, and probably shouldn't, play in a manner that pits them against the players. They are the Author of the story, the Narrator. The Narrator does not typically try to get his main character killed. This doesn't mean the DM has to go easy on the players though, after all the occasional death can add tension and so forth to a story, but they shouldn't usually aim to TPK every game.

>implying she is

>Tabletop games will never be enjoyable because someone will lose. Either the dm or the players. Therefore its a bad game because it forces a competion.

You sound like the sort of person no one likes to have as a GM because you try your hardest to kill the players just because you have mentality that it's your job to "win" by any means possible to the point where you literally make the world out to kill them.

Sounds like a rather early summer to me.

>(You)

what makes me said, is that someone somewhere will seriously have the same dumb opinion you posted without trying to troll some board

>X is bad because they lead to Y
>and having Y is bad because its Y is a bad thing

>Either the dm or the players.
Yo dawg, if you think the GM has to lose...

STOP PLAYING D&D YOU MORON

Most of my characters are flawed this way. It's got a flair of tragic glory like a good Shakespeare or Greek tragedy. It helps my group usually likes my characters too

I'm inclined to agree with you, bait or no

This will somehow get serious replies too.

>Not understanding things like roleplaying the thread.

My goal as a GM is to lose in the most convincing and entertaining way possible. I can win anytime I want, and if I do the story ends. I have never understood gms that get into pissing contests with their players, that's toxic.

Pretty much this, but also it goes both ways.

My players will try to entertain me as well in exchange for an emotional roller-coaster of a campaign

>the DM loses if he can't beat the party
>not if his players don't have fun

OP confirmed for nofun allowed shit DM.

>Any game that fosters competion will by definition be unenjoyable.

Well gee, good thing most tabletop games aren't competitive in the slightest, outside of individual players.

Are we really sure he's trolling?

I know it's bait, but a distressing number of people think this.

TABLETOP IS NOT A COMPETITION. By default.
YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING THE DM. Without prior arrangement
YOU ARE CREATING A STORY TOGETHER.

The goal of the DM is to create a story.
The goal of the players is to have an adventure and a satisfactory ending for their disgusting special-snoflake characters.
THESE GOALS LINE UP.

> RPGs are DM vs Players
okay

>someone will lose. Either the dm or the players.
>implying the DM is the players enemy, rather than their facilitator
As a DM, I consider it a win if my players kick ass, take names, and have fun. If my players lose, I feel like I lose, but that's when you take a different direction whether it be a resurrection quest or re-rolling. You are a misguided, ill informed person, and I just feel sorry for you. Also

>Any game that fosters competition* will by definition be enjoyable
FTFY, considering just about every game of every type ever is based on competition. By *YOUR* definition, every single game under the sun is unenjoyable, whether it be table top, video games, or even sports. Just stop playing then, you pathetic, whiny ass, sore loser bitch.

...

No.
>But WHYYYYY
No, you tool.

Man this board has gotten shitty recently.

This is just one form of the tumblrina/ redditor "outreach" we've enjoyed the last 18mos or so. This particular thread is of the -

Nothing is "fun" and there's no "justice" unless everyone gets a Participation trophy!

- variety. The punchline is, these people consider their opinions "evolved."

But everyone does get a participation trophy. Dis trophy is fun. No havin' fun - quit da group an' find another.

A fine blade, that is. It's a shame to just throw it in the water like that.

Eh. My group is (almost) definitely doomed but I'm cool with that.

I plan to ride this train all the way to it's apocalyptic end and smash a globe of alchemist's fire into the God of Destruction's eye.

Fucker owes me money.

That's the attitude of an adversarial DM who's "lost" too many times. A good DM *wants* the players to succeed, to be clever enough to overcome the challenges he puts in their way, and gets a sense of satisfaction when the players jump out of their seats and high-five each other for a job well done.

True that.

My current DM is utterly tired of our shit because we keep fucking up really hard. Forgetting to recruit kingdoms, getting one eaten, attacking important dignitaries because 'why not?', accidentally killing a friendly god... Guy puts up with a lot of stuff.

There was at least one time where the action I took should have instigated a TPK but he adapted and gave us a chance at an out (a lot of AGI checks were made that day, wound up being one of our most memorable escapes tho).

At this point he's just trying to get us to the final confrontation without dying horribly, but we all have fun along the way.

>recently

...

>Rapier
>Fine blade
It's a toy. I suppose you could put an eye out with it if you're not careful.

Wait... There's a competition between players and the all powerful god that is the dm?

Literally what. If that were so the pcs would always always lose.

The only way the dm can lose is if the payers dont have fun.

You're essentially full of shit. competition is fun, and adults can accept that the outcome of any given scenario shouldn't effect you emotionally. Its neither good nor bad, just a fun game

>someone will lose. Either the dm or the players

You never played as a GM, or tabletop for that matter

Obama's America

Common Core did this

As a tournament level player in tekken I can tell you that competition is just fun for people in general. By your definition everyone who competes in a tournament "has no fun" except for only one person (first place), and yet every tournament the same people come back again and again because competition is a fucking rush that can't be emulated.

Any game _lacking_ in competition will be unenjoyable.

>took the bait
Woops

No.

and the DM wins by losing. technically.

Then all I can say is be prepared to lose.

DMing is never a winning battle where you can railroad to victory and actually playing runs the risk of losing.

You're never going to find a logical DM who will willingly make you God if it means everyone can get the Feel Good.

There is just so much wrong in this post