Please post screencaps of the "identity disclaimer" texts you know about from rulebooks. You know, the "it's okay to be a gay dwarf vampire" stuff. I only have a couple.
I'm genuinely interested in seeing how many RPGs feature this. Mods, please delete any off-topic shitposting.
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This was one I saw in a Mage thread earlier today, which is what made me think about it
I've got one, but you're going to be sorely disappointed. It's not nearly as cringy as the Mage one.
Here's D&D 5e.
Why are these things in the rulebook?
Was I not supposed to play a trap wizard in '96?
Because I did. And no one stopped me.
It's kinda strange they feel them necessary hey
It's an imaginary fantasy world, you don't need permission to be a trap
Because TTRPG's are a refuge to the most anti-social community possible. I'm not implying that only autists play them, but that they have an enormously larger concentration than normal society because the community is so accepting. These people need to have this explained to them, because they don't get it.
Because then they can't be bitched out by the crazies for not being inclusive.
The D&D one especially is just a disclaimer that never comes up again anywhere else in the books.
A little from column A: A little from column B:
The enlightenment, liberalism, and progressivism were a mistake.
/pol/ was also a mistake.
>enlightenment
WHOA WHOA WHOA
HOLD YOUR FUCKING HORSES.
DO NOT SHIT TALK THE ENLIGHTENMENT MOTHER FUCKER, OR I SWEAR TO GOD, I WILL BEAT YOU SO HARD YOUR FUCKING MONADS WILL FEEL IT, AND YOUR GOD ORDAINED SPIRIT SELF WILL CRY LIKE THE LITTLE RELATIVIST BITCH YOU ARE.
/pol/ wouldn't exist if it weren't for the things I listed.
Natural rights were a mistake.
There is only man and man's laws
>I WILL BEAT YOU SO HARD YOUR FUCKING MONADS WILL FEEL IT
My sides! The Lord has willed that in this perfect reality my sides will depart from my body and enter a near Earth orbit!
Yeah, but those things happened
Deal with it :^)
>orbit
Well I see SOMEBODY's a filthy geocentric.
>There is only man and man's laws
Then why, pray tell, do men all possess the same essential trappings of humanity?
Why do all (save for those who are defective) have the same Reason and Logic?
And why do we use these Universal Tools to reach the same conclusions as to what we ought or ought not to do?
Why would any of this come to pass if we were not guided by the Universal Truth which we all strive for so bitterly?
>The community is by and large accepting, as seen by our current demographics.
>They require clunky and ham-fisted blurbs about accepting others.
I'm not a /pol/ack screaming about dem es jay dubs infiltrating our hobby, but I think those sections are dumb as hell; I feel they imply we're all backwards bigots that need to be explicitly told that people can play what they want with an added layer of cringe by tying it to gender identity issues.
Like, imagine you walk into a restaurant and right by the door is a plaque that says you can order anything on the menu, even the pepper steak, because they aren't racist against Asians. There's no reason to think you can't order anything you see on the menu, and all the plaque ends up doing is cause people to think "What is up with these people and Asians?"
That metaphors sounded a lot better in my head, but booze is making me post it anyway.
So can someone explain why tabletop is so eager to tell their players time and time again that the "gender binary does not exist" when non-binaries account for such a tiny percentage of the population that they might as well not exist at all?
Like, going by ancient populations you're literally only going to have a hundred or three transgender humans in your kingdom.
this is him not dealing with it. deal with it.
>Like, imagine you walk into a restaurant and right by the door is a plaque that says you can order anything on the menu, even the pepper steak, because they aren't racist against Asians. There's no reason to think you can't order anything you see on the menu, and all the plaque ends up doing is cause people to think "What is up with these people and Asians?"
Don't forget that if you walk in and complain about the sign, people will take that as an example of why the sign needs to stay up.
And eventually the sign will start to get added to other restaurants, and before long the media will be reporting how the signs make people angry, and that cases of irate consumers assaulting innocent servers is at an all-time high.
Because man is the same species with similar minds with similar cultures and similar thought.
We arrive at the same conclusion because the states of our brains and those we interact with make it so.
>when non-binaries account for such a tiny percentage of the population that they might as well not exist at all?
They don't exist at all, in that non-binary gender or sex isn't a gender or sex at all; it's an abnormality.
How does it feel to know that the most powerful information broker in all of Sigil (yes, Planescape's Sigil) is Shemeshka the Marauder, "King" of the Cross-Trade, a fox-furry daemon-wizard referred to with female pronouns yet listed down as male?
Published in 1996.
Because game companies want to look/feel like they're fighting "prejudice and discrimination" in the gaming community whilst actually doing as little as possible.
Because you are arbitrarily rejecting those who don't fit within your model as defective instead of creating a model that can account for the full range of humanity.
Also, because you couldn't even use your own ethical framework to reach the conclusions you wanted it to, you defect.
It tells me that the cancer rotting away at the west has been present for a very, very long time.
To be fair, they are defective. They are just not defective relative to a God's laws.
>typo
Man, that Quality control was not the best.
Because if someone's special fucking snowflake identity isn't specifically mentioned by name, the designer is OBVIOUSLY attempting to erase that snowflakeness from existence and/or disrespecting the snowflake's rich and varied heritage.
IOW, it's a lot of ME ME ME! EVERYBODY, ACKNOWLEDGE AND CELEBRATE MEEEEEEEEE! Fuck *you*, it's all about MEEEEE!
You'd think, but there are periods, historically speaking, when there were far more gay/bi people than there are now.
For instance, the Roman Emperor Claudius was considered odd for the fact that he had never slept with a man. In his time, taking boy lovers was quite common. His predecessor, Caligula, had a brothel of them and even married one.
It's just that right now we have a society in which heterosexuality is the norm.
All in all, humans are quite flexible with what we put our dicks in, and as such we naturally tend towards bisexuality, with certain people leaning more heavily towards hetero or homosexuality.
From the previous page:
>To vex her most severely, ask her why she doesn't call herself the QUEEN of the Cross-Trade.
A typo? Perhaps.
As presented in the book, however... we have ourselves a trans fox-furry daemon-wizard.
Fun fact, this is why humans are often so prominently displayed in artwork and illustrations now.
Not because they just have a thing for drawing humans, oh no! They're drawing humans in all sorts of shapes, sizes and colors because they earnestly believe that excluding a shape, color or size is saying "anything excluded is not human, and not worthy of representation."
Like, if you represent humans on a cover with a white guy, that obviously means the game developers don't give a shit about blacks or women!
Heterosexuality was always the norm you fucking faggot, it just so happened that the Romans had a few more bifags than normal.
Also, their sexuality was a fair bit different than the modern day; it's not that comparable.
>1994
>Sigil, capital of the multiverse
>where majestic celestials and menacing fiends, towering dragons and teensy faeries, woeful wraiths and energetic elementals, polyhedral clockwork constructs and chaos-shrouded giant frogs, magical beasts and aberrations with shapes plucked from a madman's fever dreams, and multifarious other creatures cavort
>the most powerful information broker in the city is literally a transgendered fox-furry daemon-wizard, Shemeshka the Marauder
>other faction leaders include black-skinned and Asian-looking people
>fast forward to 2015
>"Sig: The City Between," ripoff of Sigil
>"A diverse fantasy setting where the eternal planes and infinite primes meet."
>judging by the cover art, mostly just humans, elves, and tieflings
>"diverse"
>but we added more black people and Asians!
O-Okay. Judging a book by its cover is shallow, I know, but a cover sets a tone.
What went wrong?
>You'd think, but there are periods, historically speaking, when there were far more gay/bi people than there are now.
>For instance, the Roman Emperor Claudius was considered odd for the fact that he had never slept with a man. In his time, taking boy lovers was quite common. His predecessor, Caligula, had a brothel of them and even married one.
>It's just that right now we have a society in which heterosexuality is the norm.
Literally none of this suggests homosexuality was actually something accepted or widely practiced, the matter of mounting a man was one of domination and shame, not necessarily a case of "I just like boy butts, okay?"
I was just about to write more on the subject but the pic in is exactly what I was going to say.
White heterosexual cis-males are the most human of all humans, though.
See It's the fear that not including a race or orientation will get you yelled at.
Remember, you're just an ALLY, you don't understand what it's like to be not included, you filthy little ALLY.
>the cancer rotting away at the west
Hey, you think that's old. You see here: where it's talking about Corellon Larethian?
That's canon from 1st Edition D&D.
Does anyone else want more of the Tumblr art from Fellowship?
How did finals go, yuppie? :^)
>No intention has been made to glorify or otherwise trivialize the grim reality of armed conflict.
>No assumptions have been made about the gender or orientation of the players.
>Partly because we believe that for too long, games have presented just one option.
Which is?
He'll never say.
>Also, their sexuality was a fair bit different than the modern day; it's not that comparable.
>Ancient human sexuality is incomparable to modern human sexuality
>But human sexuality never changes, and is always heterosexual by default.
>And to top it off, I am going to post a picture about how gay the Romans (who weren't gay) were
???
I'm sorry, you can't tell me that different ideas of gender and sexuality are 'the cancer killing the west,' especially when it's something that could be smacked down the moment certain politicians leave office or enough people start protesting.
We are literally talking about a few text blurbs in some books, a few courses at a liberal arts college, and some radical people on the internet who can't accept a more moderate stance. That's it.
>Which is?
"Normal."
The author was a She.
It's obvious from context that it means heterosexuality, so it doesn't need to say.
well so far we have three examples
So i don't think it means the ttrpg world is generally all that eager.
Citation needed. Who actually believes " excluding a shape, color or size is saying "anything excluded is not human, and not worthy of representation." "?
I don't want to believe you.
I am inclined to agree with you, but I can't gauge how much it's effecting the youth so the number may rise in each generation.
>especially when it's something that could be smacked down the moment certain politicians leave office or enough people start protesting.
civil rights laws.
>a few courses at a liberal arts college
At all colleges, with a near universal atmosphere. You severely underestimate how tainted higher education is by this; eventually, those kids are going to grow up.
>inb4 le slippery slope
>It's the fear that not including a race or orientation will get you yelled at.
But what about all those fantasy races?
Because-
>Because I did. And no one stopped me.
Storytime.
Speaking as a youth, we are super gay.
Like, I am one of three people in my friend group that identifies as "straight", and even that is probably subject to change.
It's severely affecting the youth, and anyone who disagrees is afraid to speak up because of social repercussions, even by those themselves who don't agree either (but who fear imagined repercussion by others for not supporting it)
It's downright Orwellian in how effective it is at preserving itself.
You must be 18 or older to post on Veeky Forums.
19 on Tuesday. :^)
Never mind, carry on.
>It's downright Orwellian in how effective it is at preserving itself.
It's really not that prevalent. It's most frightening because of how social media and the internet can make you think that the world is much more sickly and wrong than it actually is.
There have always been kids trying to get as much attention as possible, and this is very similar. Logic isn't being beaten out by emotions.
He was just trying to be funny, relax.
>The author was a She.
It's Numenera. Is that not Monte Cook's authorship?
>It's obvious from context that it means heterosexuality, so it doesn't need to say.
No, it isn't obvious that it's heterosexuality. It says "genders, gender roles, sexual orientations, realtionships, and more." Then it says they think games have presented just one option. It doesn't make any sense. You'd think a long time gamer like Monte Cook would understand that people have been playing whatever they want for decades.
As a counterpoint, I play with two different groups. One is a bunch of nerds who were in the Math/Science specialty center in the school that I knew from marching band, the other is a bunch of nerds from theatre, chorus, and NEETs, a real mixed bag who knew each other as friends outside of classes. In the latter group only me and one other guy are cis, and he has a running 'joke' of nearly making out with the big gay bear, so I don't know if I count him. Everyone has a Tumblr and varying levels of freeform roleplay experience.
In the former group, everyone's from a clean uppity fairly religious family of some sort, and one didn't learn until last session what 'transgender' meant. These are the smart guys, who loaded on AP classes and all got accepted into university immediately.
So, the young generation is a fuckall bag of mixed nuts.
As an aside, I DMed both groups' first RPGs ever, and the band group was generally more interested in murderhoboing for money and blood and didn't roleplay much, while the others made snowflakes but actually knew how to get into character, though half tried to get laid in the first few sessions.
>It's really not that prevalent.
Except it really is, at least on college campuses. It's not prevalent in rural town mcBumfuck or big city #25 (except for San Francisco), but it's extremely prevalent in higher education.
Keep in mind, the people that actually believe this stuff (and the ones who want to get browny points by pretending the do) are the next generation's educated workers (assuming they didn't get something totally useless), as well as being incessant slacktivists. Some redneck does something racist and it goes viral? They all pounce, get him fired from what ever menial job he has, and pat each other on the back. No effective defense can be mounted because there are already sympathetic persons within most organizations.
They wield a disproportionate amount of power to bully individuals and corporations for how few of them actually exist.
...
Not much to tell, I am afraid. The only notable thing I did with it was an amusing bit of roleplay when the party (who thought my character was a girl) was trying to get me to seduce a prince. It led to the climatic reveal that she was a he, and he was not gay.
The girl would later become my wife (who was playing a bard who had already struck out with the prince) said that I should try to seduce him anyways, it would be hot.
I ended the game with my future wife's bard, who went a bit mad after becoming a vampire, and kept me and the party's cleric in a sex dungeon.
Come to think of it, it may be nice to revisit the ending of that campaign. I still use the setting, and my wife's vampire bard has come up from time to time in our more recent campaigns.
>marrying the girl in the gaming group
>still married today
Good end
They're all... well, I dunno if Numenura is known for anything except being hated on, but 5e is pretty huge and Mage is a decent chunk of a decently well known tabletop cluster. It's not exactly universal, but those 3 examples are covering a fair amount of ground.
>so the number may rise in each generation.
I feel like the gay/trans thing is piggybacking off of something else, though. Age-old emo feelings of not fitting in or weird traditional gender shit or something. As is frequently mentioned, it's not a sustainable group on raw, genuine membership the way feminism or bitching about the wealthy are.
>It's severely affecting the youth, and anyone who disagrees is afraid to speak up because of social repercussions, even by those themselves who don't agree either (but who fear imagined repercussion by others for not supporting it)
>It's downright Orwellian in how effective it is at preserving itself.
Citation needed, I'm getting D&D, rap music, violent movies, etc etc flashbacks here.
>Citation needed, I'm getting D&D, rap music, violent movies, etc etc flashbacks here.
youtube.com
That comes from a splat by Shanna Germaine, who made a name off smut writing, as far as I know.
>It doesn't make any sense
Read It's obvious from context, that's one of the better parts of language.
I thought Exalted 3e would shove this down our throats, but it turned out pretty okay. In one particular culture in the setting, men and women have very strict gender roles. But if you're a man and want to do a woman's role, or vice versa, you put on a gray-colored cloth along with that gender's clothing and you're treated thenceforth as that gender. But again, it's just one small culture.
Then, in the entire Western direction of the world, women aren't normally allowed on ships. But it's because a certain variety of (female) sky elemental will literally capsize your boat if they see a woman they think is prettier than they are. One way around it is to make the woman interfile and cover her with tattoos. Then everyone treats her as a man, so the book says.
>That comes from a splat by Shanna Germaine, who made a name off smut writing, as far as I know.
Huh, well alright. I didn't know Numenera had splats already.
>It's obvious from context
It isn't, but I'm glad you got it. To me it seems like vague speech about there being some vague problem that she's fixing.
>Citation needed, I'm getting D&D, rap music, violent movies, etc etc flashbacks here.
BLM, Mizzou and other related protests, the dozens upon dozens upon dozens of people fired because of the urging from SJWs.
>CuckofAkkad
Don't recommend libertarians, please.
>The successful eggheads are normal and trying to get laid
>The fruity losers are gay and just sort of bruting around
This anecdote has fascinating implications for the idea in that the LGTB movement is on some level a "I am personally unhappy and unfulfilled" movement.
Also
>Not wanting to wear your slut armor into battle
>whatafaggot.gif
Some guy repeatedly bitching on Youtube is not a credible source.
>well, I dunno if Numenura is known for anything except being hated on
Hated on? It's known for winning a bunch of awards over 5e DnD on the year 5e was released, and the year after.
I've seen quite a few Veeky Forums threads full of a lot of people who like it. I've never seen any serious complaints about it from someone who's played it.
Honestly, the Numenera thing isn't even that bad, it just says "Sex is touchy for people, so talk to them before using it, you anti-social retard."
Let's pray that ethos holds, and some semblance of a sane culture is able to crawl out of the wreckage.
So it IS just a D&D, rap music, violent movies, etc etc thing.
>BLM
>something to worry about
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>implying blacks getting uppity isn't something to be concerned about
The last time that happened, a few million Americans died.
>"Oh no, a womens leg!"
>"We can't show that, it's disrespectful of women, if the Empress even identifies as one!"
>One shitty photoshop later
Thanks 3e.
>a few million
I agree it's not that big of a deal, but D&D, rap music, and violent movies aren't trying to control your life, thoughts, and free speech.
It doesn't bother me at all, ALL arcanoloths had both sexes.
Not even that bothers me.
What bothers me is the teleport metaplot.
Well, she wasn't JUST the girl in the gaming group.
But yeah.
VERY good end, I've led a charmed life.
>implying WW1 and WW2 wasn't caused by blacks
The world belongs to America, so everyone is an American naturally.
Well, zir is a hermayiffer.
>BLM, Mizzou and other related protests, the dozens upon dozens upon dozens of people fired because of the urging from SJWs.
"Some people are crazy" has nothing to do with "this thing is severely affecting the youth." You need actual fucking numbers for that, user, otherwise it's just the X is causing school shootings thing again.
Really? All I've ever seen of it on here is that it's SJW garbage.
Winning awards doesn't mean anything on its own. You mean actual, like, good awards that mean something? Do those even exist, let alone for TTRPGs?
Imma need details on this fiasco.
>The last time that happened, a few million Americans died.
>implying filthy Johnnies who spit on the Constitution have any right to call themselves "Americans"
>Really? All I've ever seen of it on here is that it's SJW garbage.
Well of course it is, it made a splat book about sex and relationships. I think that means it was trying to get you to check your priviledge.
This makes war seem kind of tragic. Think of how many Americans were killed by Americans in Rwanda.
>Then why, pray tell, do men all possess the same essential trappings of humanity?
>Why do all (save for those who are defective) have the same Reason and Logic?
>And why do we use these Universal Tools to reach the same conclusions as to what we ought or ought not to do?
>Why would any of this come to pass if we were not guided by the Universal Truth which we all strive for so bitterly?
Counterpoint: Muslims and Africans
The older a civilization is, the more corrupt and barbaric it is
>Muslims
>African
>civilization
>The older a civilization is, the more corrupt and barbaric it is
What? No. It's much more closely related to climate and environment.
Climates without winter and with more available food select for more less cohesion and more immediate decision making.
man I don't get why we have to use vague terms like "civilization" and "nation."
What is even the universally agreed upon term for like "a country/nation defined as an area of land with at least some sense of borders, and a government that exists upon it?"
Come on, you know there are exceptions. Morocco has always been close with the US, and South Africa recently avoided an all-out war by talking things out. And no one ever complained about Turkey, not as far as I know.
A nation-state?
>no one ever complained about Turkey
The Ottomans were a mistake.
I know I was just being a Veeky Forums shitposter. Africa at one point had fairly advanced kingdoms and the middle East was once a center for science and culture they're just shithole now
Come on though, It was uncle claudius. Everyone thought he was weird, for everything- no exceptions
Some pretty ignorant points of view in this thread. If you seriously feel bothered by filler text in a roleplaying game manual encouraging often-marginalized people to be just be themselves, then you can pretty much just fuck off.
A more accurate analogy would be that a place has peppercorn steak on a menu, while people stare at it dumbfoundedly going "of course there's peppercorn steak, why would they need to list it on the menu?" still not perfect, just not as blatantly flawed.
Perhaps a better one would be that a fix- your- own ice cream bar lets you mix flavors and features a mostly unnecessary sign stating so, because otherwise some people might sneer at you for mixing.
>using Caligula as a basis for normal anything
Also everyone thought Claudius was a creepy wierdo for everything
So would one then generally agree that America is one of the oldest western nation-states?
That's what I want to convey, occasionally, that we deserve some credit for having outlasted most European nation states/whatever.
I'm fairly certain that most European nation-states have a few centuries on us; wasn't the concept of the nation state invented some time in the 1400's?
In geography, a country is a piece of land.
A nation is a group of people who believe themselves to be part of a nation (communally)
A state is a government body.
It's not an official definition, but it makes a lot of sense.