First for Skorne buffs

First for Skorne buffs.

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Second for Borne skuffs.

I'm pretty sure PP will be breaking the law if they demand people charge a set amount for their product. That is price collusion and illegal in most places.

If someone can make a profit off of selling at 20% discount then they should be fine with selling at 20% discount. If you can't compete with that then you need to find an alternative way to run your business or accept someone else will replace you.

Price fixing is not going to solve the problem, if anything it is going to create more problems when PP price themselves out of the hobby. The giant model thing is already showing PP are getting desperate for a gimmick to stay relevant. It's what GW did because "No one wants to pay $60 for some toy soldiers when they could pay $60 for a new video games instead".

What all miniature companies and stores need to accept is that traditional gaming is being replaced by video games. The internet has completely changed the social landscape and going to your friends house is not replaced with using facebook, Skype or Steam. They need to find alternative ways to get people into the hobby and price fixing just isn't going to cut it. Even in the traditional gaming area wargaming is being replaced by board games. Armies are just too damn expensive outside of stuff like Malifaux, which is 8 models a side.

>What all miniature companies and stores need to accept is that traditional gaming is being replaced by video games
but that's wrong you fucking moron.

>I'm pretty sure PP will be breaking the law if they demand people charge a set amount for their product. That is price collusion and illegal in most places.

Leegin v. PSKS would disagree with you on that, friendo.

Great argument you have there kid. If only we have evidence that video gaming is replacing other forms of entertainment.

Most places doesn't mean every single place now does it Yankie doodle dandy?

>Most places doesn't mean every single place now does it Yankie doodle dandy?

The US is PP's location and main market. US law is the most relevant law for the purposes of their policies.

>What all miniature companies and stores need to accept is that traditional gaming is being replaced by video games.
I hope not. Video games have been getting wierdly worse over the last few years. I think I enjoy my time with traditional games better. Yeah, they can be more expensive, but they hold my attention longer, that's for sure.

>I'm pretty sure PP will be breaking the law if they demand people charge a set amount for their product.
They absolutely can. They can't stop a store from having a sale, but they can absolutely refuse to sell product to a retailer that sets a base price they don't like.

Fuck, GW forces retailers to agree to dedicate a certain amount of shelf space to their product before they'll allow them to retail their product, and that is legal as well.

How is that illegal? It's the basic principle that guides every single supermarket in the world.

Also, enough of this bullshit talk.

Anybody else super excited for competitive pigs?

He said it was legal.

Price fixing is illegal in the UK. Companies are not allowed to demand X price be charged by their competitors which is what PP are doing. It would be interesting to see if this bullshit is applying with the UK distributor.

>American companies caring about what a socialist hellhole like Britcuckistan thinks
Funny joke.

Good thing none of the online distributors that anyone cares about are based out of the UK then.

You do realise the UK is one of the biggest wargaming markets in the world right? Malifaux's UK meta makes a joke out of the US meta because it's small enough for people to travel to events and so the competitive scene is way more active, which makes the casual scene more active.

The size of your market doesn't make your laws suddenly applicable to dealings between American-based companies.

Never said it did. But PP deal in the UK as well you fucknut.

You can't price fix your own products, fuckstick.

Well, so far we've had 0% warmahordes discussion in this thread, and 99% shitposting.

Since the body of recent discussions has been Skorne, i'ma throw a question out there,
is there a single Skorne player that is actually happy with the announced changes?
From an outsiders perspective it doesn't look so bad, they seem to be buffing your range abilities, with a cyclops, shaman, drake and a whole lota immortals u guys should have some fun janky assassinations now.

They're not competitors. PP gets their money regardless. PP is a manufacturer, not a retailer.

>they seem to be buffing your range abilities
And making Farstrike Target:Self. But aside from that it does seem like they want to nudge Skorne into some ranged faction role. By making everything else utter shit.

Our best two ranged options got nerfed though. Sentinel lost 3 inches of range, and the Animantarax lost the ability to boost.

A manufacturer enforcing prices would be price fixing as well. It doesn't have to be a deal made between two companies, it can be one company forcing the others.

But their 2 overpowered models got nerfed, so clearly they're trying to ruin the faction. It's not like they're rebalancing stuff and every faction is losing it's edge while picking up new toys!

>2 overpowered models
Skorne had 1. Glad it was nerfed. Oh and a broken Theme Force. Shame about the rest of the faction.

fuckin
RETRIBUTION OF SCYRAH
tomorrow

Honestly, Molik deserved what he got (and he got off easy), but the Bronzeback and Gladiator got shafted.

Looking forward to titan sentries at mat 6 though, they really needed that.

fuck me, they nerved your sentinel? That's unforgivable, he was the first real game changing unit Skorne was given during the whole of MKII,

Have they released all the info on Skorne changes or just some? Because it's entirely possible that they might reduce the point system enough to give Skorne more of a 'swarmy' light beast presence, in which case the nerf's aren't all that bad?

I dono, i've always felt bad for Skorne in competitive tournies, all your casters do the same thing (dice manip for melee hits / damage) and you had no synergy, and no range.

I can't believe privateer thinks that the info they've released hasn't just castrated Skorne even more,
Is there no hope for skorne anons?

USA has 5x the population of the UK.

I have a hard time believing that the UK's marketshare is that big of a juggernaut.

someone absolutely can set a minimum advertised price in a contract, when amazon sells something below the contracted price you have to click so a separate pop up comes up because they aren't actually allowed to put that lower price on the regular page

Yeah, I'm a ret main, and i'm fucking excited.

One thing I hope they keep is our focus on assassinations, desu it's the reason i picked the faction in the first place (that an it is the easiest to paint cause i'ma bit lzy)

>USA has 5x the population of the UK.
And 1/8th the population density.
Wargame communities require large amounts of people in a common geographic area.

They took away far strike and compensated by giving the sentinel 1 extra inch of range. Even the troll stuff hit by the far strike nerf got 2 inches. An 11 inch sentinel isn't really going to do shit.

>competetive pigs

As a Gator player, no. Those pigs need to know their place.

>An 11 inch sentinel isn't really going to do shit.
It can totally kill a trooper. Two if you get a good drift. And then get charged to death.

Honestly, since Karax are getting buffed to speed 6, they're a better screening force now for the sentinel to shoot over with arcing fire.

Better just throw all your models in the trash, then.

That's not exactly a fair measurment.

Did you take overall population density, or did you remove the large stretches of practically uninhabited land, like most of Alaska and portions of the midwest?

Who's ready for spoilers?

One of my friends mains skorne, he's happy but I think its just excited about the possibility of skorne getting some control elements back

I'm actually hoping the opposite.

I'm really hoping that Ret gets less monofocused on assassination. I'd rather see them be more versatile than that.

what factions do you play (not just own)

strawpoll.me/10138678

...

RET players rumors are they changed their minds and the entire faction is squatted.

so it goes

Joke's on you. The anger is what fuels us.

So, I've been out of the game for about a year now. I bought a small Convergence force (2 heavies, a unit of medium-base infangry, a corrolary, and the mechanic guys) before realizing that Convergence wasn't a real faction and the game was far too precise for my liking. Could someone briefly summarize the new rules so I can see if it'll be worth learning again for me?

Well Convergence IS a real faction and always was. And the game will still be just as precise, maybe more so with Premeasuring. So if you disliked that before, you'll still dislike it.

My hopes for the update:
-Anything positive for building with Thyron, doesn't have to be a change to him
-Something nice for Sentinels
-Anything regarding Electromancers

My worst case scenarios:
-The spoilers are just MHSF/MHI rebalancing
-Griffons eat the nerf bat directly
-Battle Mages/Force Bolt get "directly away" tacked on to their pushing

>The spoilers are just MHSF/MHI rebalancing
You can bet that will be one major part of the Insider.
>Griffons eat the nerf bat directly
That would be dumb and I can totally see it coming. I'd much rather see Synergy take a hit.
>Battle Mages/Force Bolt get "directly away" tacked on to their pushing
That is already the case.

I thought the "directly away" clause was added to Beat Back. Did that vague hearsay actually apply to pushing in general?

The pushing that Ret does is already directly away.

Good god if it was just "away" or "towards."

Force Bolt has always been "directly" bro.

Well "pushing in general" is no longer a thing. But the Battlemage card literally reads "directly towards or directly away" (or the other way around).

>Well "pushing in general" is no longer a thing
The "Push" power attack is no longer a thing, push-effects still exist as far as anyone knows.

My new is showing. Thanks for the clarification.
I suppose my concern was losing the ability to pull towards the caster, but if the ability is already a fixed line I can't see why they'd feel the need to nerf it.

Well it is extremely strong, but not without its counters. Too bad one of the main counter was just removed from the game.

The big nerf it might see is something along the lines of "Once per turn".

Not even a Skorne player,
Wasn't even being salty,
Fuck that salt looks tasty tho.

Lel, desu i'm actually slightly disappointed that they don't allow Gator casters to run pig beasts and vice versa, I think that would really open up minion play style.

^ this
Although I'd really prefer them not to take away my precious vyros2 synergy
I was really starting to enjoy Thyron in 2016 so I really hope you're right and they just leave him a lone.
Thyron + Banshee + Imperetus + Magister has been so much fucking fun.

Is there a particular tactic with those three guys beyond just being excellent pieces in Thyron's overall arsenal of pain delivery?

Ugh. Could not care less about ret.

Me either, but some people do. Turns out they're a faction in Warmachine that people play.

Shut the fuck up and wait for your faction.

No, user, they must cater to me! And my faction must be the best, or else I'm telling mommy.

user, you know as well as I do that nobody outside Australia plays Ret.

Banshee and thyron's spell piercer + feat = push for days which opens up amazing assasanation angles for the imperatus,
the magister is great for combo's with thyron if you're either defending him form an assassination or going for one yourself,
they have this beautiful synergy where they can block for each other (both being mediums) and also push and pull one another around with their abilities.

Wait, do you mean Artificer? Magisters are small based.

All right, I'm buying in to WarmaHordes once this drops. Who wants to help me pick a faction? Here's what I'm looking for:

I think there are a few factions whose overall strategy is to try to pull some gimmicky face-rush fuck you up before you can respond type bullshit, right? I want to play the faction that makes their little plan fall flat on its ass and then punch them in the face while they cry. And as far as which caster type I'm looking at, I don't want someone whose purpose is to wander out, drop some Wombo Feat, then get themselves killed because that was their one trick. Fuck Feats. Fancy Feats are a crutch for casters who can't handle a regular job.

Pic unrelated.

You seem like a Severius-type player.

There is no faction that can magically stop gimmicks.

I didn't say magic. I just meant "not die" followed by "my fist in their face".

Also: goddamnit captcha I decide what's food

Ok so let's say I give my Titan Gladiator Beatback with the Bronzeback's animus. If my Gladiator were to then slam something and follow up, would Beatback trigger before or after the follow up movement?

Fairly certain it only triggers on normal melee attack. Also don't get too used to Beat Back.

All right, based on your suggestion (thanks btw) I'm not sure which Severius you mean, but a caster who buffs his army and can either A) Blow shit up or B) Turn enemies friendly (That must really torque some players' nards) sounds about right, even if I have to take the squishiness. And I like Menoth's "No, you don't get to. Filthy Heretics" attitude, so solid choice to look into some more. Any other casters I should look into?

I think the core problem to this hobby is the mindset of a new generation.

While the rest of the world has moved on since I started Wargaming about 20 years ago, miniature wargaming still is the same deal but with better looking models.
So when I started, I didn't have the luxury to pick and chose from what I wanted to do, there was literally no one in my community that owned a Computer, we had a NES 8 bit lying around, and that was about it.

Point being, if you take away the options, people will "oh" and "ah" when they see this new cool stuff that can take up their private time. Now days you can get a HTC-Vive and live another life, that wasn't an option back then.

The second thing I find interesting is that when I started out, the mindset was "This hobby is something you create over time" You save up money to buy something, you take care assembling and paint it, and ad it to your existing force. A "play with what you finished" thinking, combined with a "don't rush it" theme, laid down this hobby as not being as expensive as it is marketed today. Because seriously, who here would "save" money to make a purchase? Today, idiots take loans to buy pizza for fuck sake. Meaning, if you want something, you want it NOW, and not tomorrow.
The same goes with this hobby, you don't want to buy something small each month, spending time and effort to finish your project, you want 3k of 40k right now, hardly having the strength to assemble the shit, and you can forget about painting because you want to play!

So disregarding miniature shops that sells for cheap, or companies getting desperate, we as a fanbase have a horrible mindset as it is towards this hobby as it looks today. Anyone else remember "a tale of four gamers?", God I miss the good´ol times once in a while.

London is considered the economic center of the world currently. Yes, companies care a huge amount, especially if they buy and sell on an international scale.

That's beside the point, though. Pretty sure what the guy is saying is what PP are doing is illegal in one of the countries they sell in. Probably one of the most profitable countries they sell in, since wargaming is weirdly big in the UK.

Problem is:
-It isn't illegal, he's just a retard
-Even if it was, the UK doesn't have big online PP retailers anyway, it basically only affects DiscountGames and MiniatureMarket who are also US based so Britain can go suck a cock.

Personally I think all they need is their casters given a little better stuff. Just a little. I'm looking at them right now, and some of them really feel like they should have another point of focus, and that's it.

I get the impression they should have their magic hate buffed too. That's what they're about, yet my Menoth are probably better at it than them. I'm okay with them having more effects to ignore buffs and the like so long as I remain the best at general denial.

I was suggesting Severius1. However, we don't really know how Menoth will change in MK3, so I can only base it on MK2, which has a rather limited lifespan.

So we heard anything new on the Khador front yet?

Under UCC and US Code
PP and GW are both natural monopolies.
They both have unique IPs, they both produce their own models. They have never once wanted to license their products, meaning its going to cost too much for another producer to enter the market. The general rules for addressing monopolies and unfair business competition is found in the Sherman Anti Trust Act.

>Tl:DR Price fixing with a competitor is illegal, requiring a retailer to carry higher prices is not.

I'm only 21, but I save my money when I want to buy something that isn't a need (hobbies). I worked super hard to get my army painted for my first Steamroller, I played two fully painted armies. 1 being my friend who also painted really hard to get it done, the other being a guy who's had Menoth since Mk1. (Most of the people at the steamroller where middle aged men who had army's of grey or pewter. ) Admittedly the winner had this sick Cryx Army.

Welcome to the One True God, for the night is dark and full of terror (so we light it on fire)

Severius 1 is great new mans caster 18" Control Area means you can keep him safe from most face smashing armies.
He also buffs every one in his Control +1 to hit and +1 to damage (Because you cast Eye of Menoth turn 1 and upkeep it always.)
Menoth can run more jacks (in mk2) then most other factions
Things you want in menoth
>Warnoun you like (Sevy1)
>Chior
>Devout
>Reckoer
>Templar
>The Covenant of Menoth
>Vassal
>1 of our infantry units with their UA (Temple Flame Guard or Errants are best IMHO with Sevy1)
> A 2nd heavy (vanquisher is a good choice.)

Reading your post and looking at your pic makes it seem like you're looking for a meme faction, so I think Khador is for you.

>le axe to le face xD

People still do the slow grow stuff but it's not as common.

Most people look at wargaming as a rule set now more than a creative hobby, it's difficult to change that and hard to blame people for it really.

Please do google price fixing laws in the UK. I'll be over here acting like a smug cunt when you get back.

Yes, I am aware that there are exceptions. The problem I myself face is that I earn more money, and thus the cost isn't that much of an issue. When this all started I can honestly say that I myself went on the "1850 tourney bandwagon" when GW was the only option out there. Every new month a new "better" dex was released, and we as fans just rushed the stores to build the new meta, hardly finishing a project before the next one was started.
But as time goes on I have moved back closer to my roots, and yet again started the relaxing "one step at a time" process of finishing my stuff, as I did when we started this hobby. Hell, I paint more now with a family to support than I ever did back then!
But then again, in a time where everything is a "take now, pay later" why should miniature wargaming be left behind? I can totally understand why a great many people just hoard stuff (many of my friends does), even if I don't like it personally.

Keep up the good work guys, the hobby needs more people like you who paint, and finish your projects one at a time. You are the few guidelines on the path of wargaming left in this hobby.

"Constraint breeds creativity." - Igor Stravinsky

Why there is no Blessing of Vengeance? Why do you even want Vassal if you dont bring Vanquisher? Why Templar? Beat back?

There's no faction that's both fast and good at not dying/shutting down tricks. Your best bets are...

Menoth- shuts down tricks, makes stuff hard to kill (or outright untargetable/invincible for a turn), messes with magic, and if anything does die, it makes everything around it stronger. It's not fast though. You will get hit first, absorb the alpha, and then use what you lost to counter-punch. Warcasters tend to be squishy and more likely to stand back and buff than attacks/cast spells. We don't know much about how feats will change.

Skorne is fast and hits hard and has lots of infantry and ways to bring them back AFTER they die. The casters themselves are pretty active, as they rely on their offensive spellcasting and cheap arc nodes to debilitate the enemy.

Circle is super fast, with lots of teleport, flying, and other movement shenanigans and even more shenanigans once they get in range. Beasts relatively fast and squishy while the constructs are slower, but tougher. Lots of magic being thrown around here.

Legion of Everblight is also fats and hard hitting. They can see through most stuff, walk through most stuff, and eat up most stuff, but they can't take hits so well. They also have better fury management options than other Hordes factions.

Wargaming used to be more about historical miniatures. When you were dealing with history buffs, it was always more about accurately recreating the past- including making sure the rules of the games matched the past reality- than playing an actual game. Painstakingly assembling and painting models to be realistic and accurate portrayals of the past was a big part.

Then Warhammer expanded that into fantasy, and with that came less focus on history and craft and more and more on a fun and interesting game- including rules. But even then, the old mind set prevailed and it was treated for some time primarily as a minis line that also happened to have a game attached to it.

3e/d20 came out in 2000 and really got a lot of people into table top gaming with minis, but not necessarily into the history/reenactment/craft aspects.

There was a niche to be filled with minis games that were actually fun to play, as opposed to simply being showcases for your beautifully assembled models- which frankly kept lots of people out. Other games have filled that niche.

BoV is a pretty niche 'jack for an introductory list. Vassal is always good (although really, you should bring a Vanquisher. The Vanquisher is a 10 point 'jack that comes with a free Vassal.) The Templar is just a really solid, beefy beatstick with reach and Beat Back, which is a solid Intro To Control mechanic. I'd probably take a Crusader and a Paladin or Heirophant instead of the Templar, but the Templar isn't a bad choice at all.

>BoV is a pretty niche 'jack for an introductory list.
Normally I'd agree, but with Sevy things are a bit different.

When do spoilers go up?

Oh yeah, he's balls-out rad with Sevy, but that's $23 for something you're only gonna use with one guy, which isn't the best investment for a new player. You can easily proxy the battle box Revenger if you want to play BoV in some intro games, though. NewMenothAnon should definitely get the battlebox, a unit, the UA, one of each heavy multikit, and lrn2magnet. You can probably pick up some plastic Crusaders on e-bay for real cheap, and pop 'em in the freezer to make the glue brittle and snap off the arms for more magnets.

>Crusaders on e-bay for real cheap, and pop 'em in the freezer to make the glue brittle and snap off the arms for more magnets.

Aaaww, THAT's how you do it? I ruined like 2 of my heavies trying to go back and magnetize them after the fact.

True, the game AoS for instance is more close to its origins than most people would like to admit. I don't play the game, but I can appreciate what GW is trying to do with it. They put more focus back on the "play with what you got", and a lot more focus on painting and the hobby aspect of it all. Hell, they even have free painting tutorials up, along with free rules and whatnot, never thought Id se the day!

Still remember seeing my first Warhammer miniature and being mind blown. Like literally ran home and phoned my best friend in a "Dude, you have to see this with your own eyes!", 3 weeks later we got our first Warhammer Fantasy starter set, hehe good times.

If they were assembled with super glue, yeah. The freezer for a couple hours, then it'll USUALLY pop off just tuggin' on it, but you might wanna use a hobby knife or something.

Time varies. Today Retribution is getting a dedicated insider article.

Nail polish remover resolved super glue but will make PP plastic a little rubbery if you leave stuff in it too long.

Simple Green.

>Anyone else remember "a tale of four gamers?"
Nope, fuck is that?