Shattered Imperium Development Thread

it probably works like a sort of feudal system in the PoA with all the enclaves being self sufficiant but have to awnser to the greater authority of the primarchs.

The PoA opperate like a series of monasteries. They're on the same side and generally espouse the same things but unless you travel to each monastery you won't know how they diverge.

It' likely that some of the enclaves are much more zealous in their pursuit of ascension than others, perhaps engaging in macabre experiments.

Typhus will be joining Chaos with Horus and the Word Bearers and Nathaniel Garro will Hunt him in Mortarions command

so what if the imperium focuses on mass production to out gun their opponents.

then we have chaos who with a lack of production and numbers rely on mass daemon summoning warp fuckery and general heresy.

then there is the free legions who would probably be much more versitile in a attempt to out maneuver their opponents.

the PoA would probably have extremly powerfull and advanced troops which they can only realy deploy in small numbers due to their high cost and time to produce.

the dark angels are probably pretty much the same as now.

the secundus imperium probably fields some of the most diciplined and steadvast troops but lacks a certiant amount of versitilty

and the wild wolves of russ will probably have adopted a sort of guerilla style fighting as they hunt their precieved traitors.

Following the devastating conflict at Isstvan, the Path of Ascension fractured into a number of fleets.

Ferrus Manus, still with a good portion of his legion intact, set to reclaiming a series of systems for the PoA to call their home. Several of the Medusan's sons set about researching ways to induce phyichic abilities in normal humans. This research would forever Mar the reputation of the Iron Hands as they engaged in acts of unimaginable cruelty.

Magnus set out in search of alien artifacts that could further his goals. For the most part, his legion remained nomadic as they scoured the stars for knowledge and power

Fulgrim took the fight to the enemy once more, taking care to capture several chaos infested marines. Fulgrim, having already had a brush with Chaos, was convinced that he could control the powers of chaos and use them to ascend Humanity.(or at the very least gain the knowledge to do so).

Individual Fleets and Monastaries of the PoA are led by Clerics of the Path. The individual actions and orginisation of the Ascencionist forces under a Cleric's control is entirely at the discretion of the Cleric. However the Cleric is still beholden to the Wishes of the Primarhcs

So something like this.
>Each enclave of the PoA is a largely autonomous entity technically commanded by the Primarchs (Fulgrim, Magnus, and Ferrus) but largely ignored unless they do something horrible or outright attack another enclave.
>Enclaves have different focuses, Ryza and Medusa probably focus more on mechanical technology, Chemos probably on geneseed and biological modification, Prospero primarily on psychic training.

Guilleman broke up the Legion into a series of Demi-Legions, each approximately five thousand strong, each of those being composed of five great companies. A number of them have become specialists.

The Emperors Children and Thousand sons spend a good portion of their time looking for cures in the gene faults.

alright something we haven't realy touched upon how do the dark angels manage their worlds how do they organize their armies and what are their goals?

What gene faults? As long as they have the primarch they shouldn't have issues with geneseed flaws. However I could easily see them messing with geneseed to improve it. Making marines more capable in combat and making psykers even more powerful.

Basically the Dark Angels are Organised like they were during the Crusade. Chapters of 1000 within a Legion with 6 wings specialising in specific combat doctrines.

The Lion resents the Emperor for not making him Warmaster and so has set out to make a better Imperium than the Actual Imperium. So Imagine the Gothic style and administration of the Imperium turned up to 11, and covered on Dark Angel Iconography.

The Thousand Sons suffer from something referred to as the Flesh Change. Ahriman ruminates on how random and unpredictable it was.

The Emperor's Children were nearly wiped out by a cancerous growth cause by a geneseed imperfection. Only access to their gene sires DNA can stop new recruits from suffering the same horrible side effects.

the flesh change wasn't a geneseed effect but rather a result of dealing with tzeentch.
as for the other thing well that's fair enough.

>as for the other thing well that's fair enough.
The thing is EC don't really need to worry about it as they have access to their primarch. Besides I would assume Bile could fix that in a decade if he put his mind to it. I imagine Bile would focus on the geneseed to make better, stronger, faster marines.

Does the PoA still use navigators?

What are the Navigators like in these new orders?

For the most part I imagine the Legions maintain the use of Navigators from families that already worked with the legion, potentially having to start breeding new ones in their own territory from existing stock.

What if the Free Legions were organised more like the Inquisition in 40k. With Individual Marines either making up a part of a war host or controlling a network of agents and operatives across a sub sector?

I'm imagining the machine supremacist PoA preferring to use the old fashioned slow jump drives.

Slow as shit but it tends to be reliable.

As a result the pure Mechanicals don't assume that their enclaves are going to receive reinforcements quickly.

Their ships tend to be few but big and capable of being left independent for centuries at a time as they carry everything they need to fabricate spare parts and supplies from raw materials.

Also I can imagine them being the only faction that still builds and maintains the old Legio Cybernetica.

The Biologists of the PoA I can see going full Bene Jesuit + Gattaca. Much use and development of abhuman. If they can't adapt a world for human habitation they can get the human to meet it half way.

Breeding partners are state assigned to get good offspring be it for Astartes training, manual labor, administrating or whatever.

The Pure Helix Supreme dudes also keep the Navigator bloodlines stable although nobody wants to admit it. They breed new stock into the old bloodlines. This results in a normal human carrying the Navigator genes but just a normal human and usually a little sickly at that. The hybrid then has children with a navigator from another blood line and with a bit of luck the navigator features come to the surface and you have a half rate navigator. Next generation breed the new navigator with a navigator from a 3rd bloodline and you have a good navigator plus new genes in a gene-pool that always needs them. It takes a long ass time but it does work.

The old families dislike it because it weakens their monopoly a little but fuck those guys.

Psyker supremacists is Hogwarts + Jedi/Sith with a big heap of Equilibrium. If they need to travel they all get together on a ship and punch their way through the warp. Deamons and shit can get out of the way or they can get run over because once the train starts its actually quite difficult to stop.

I like that, it accentuates the way the 3 legions have diverged so quickly

So how do the Free Legions oversee their territory? Are they fair rulers or they oppress the masses in the name of efficiency?

they are probably stern but fair rulers who spare little mercy for those who break the rules but other than that spare the common folk unneeded harm.

ofcourse this comes with the problem that their life and let life way of ruling causes them to have some inefficiencies in terms of production and recruitment.

Given that it's the realm of the Free Legions I don't see them being imposing or oppressive.

I'm imagining the Mongolian Empire to an extent.

They are obligated to send aid to their neighbors in times of need and occasionally the Legions roll in and make a demand for their ships and shit to get repair.

So long as they don't rock the boat the Free Legions don't give a shit.

That armour is pretty good.

Okay so the Free Legions expect loyalty, but so long as you pay your dues, They're happy to let you do your own thing.

The PoA are fractious and decentralised. Each individual PoA force can have wildly varying goals and strategies.

The Dark Angels are similar to the Imperium but probably less technologically proficient and more inclined to go out and pick a fight

The Imperium and traitors we can assume to be relatively similar to what they are now.

That Just Leaves the Wolves and Imperium Secundus. Thoughts?

Further on the PoAs

The Mechanicals are the longest lived, replacing flesh with metal s it falls apart. The upper life time seems to usually be at about 1,500. You usually have to be a Magus, Governor or chairman of a mega-corp or some shit to get that many replacement parts but it's doable.

For most of this time you are biologically an extremely old person and as such birth rates are low and population growth is slow. This is off-set by people being very resilient and easy to repair. Fashions change at a glacial pace and they are very slow to adapt to a changing galaxy as the old fuckers don't pick up new ideas readily an won't die and make way for new people with new ideas.

The Biologicals have what they call baseline humanity living to 120 without longevity treatments of any sort. Their people look 20 at 50 and 30 at 70 and 40 at 90. Then they start to fall to the preparations of time. They can stretch this out to 1,000 with the use of juvenant drugs and longevity treatments but again you better either be brilliant to get state funding or rich.

This is discounting cultivated abhuman strains. Navigators can maybe see 2,000 if they are extremely lucky although they will be hideously mutated due to warp exposure. Even with longevity treatments and juvenant drugs no Ogyrn has seen 300. Voiders/Space Wraiths tend to go for the higher end of average.

The psykers can channel warp fuckery to rebuild damaged cells and revitalize their bodies if they are of sufficient capabilities and training. As such many psychic enclaves discourage the use of cybernetic or rejuvenant methods as a means of encouraging their people to get good.

This was pretty much my line of thinking my thoughts on their militaries were in general (varies from enclave to enclave)

>Mechanicals (maybe call them Scions of the Machine)
Tend to rely on heavily augmented soldiers, basic soldiers are akin to skitarii, the former astartes are comparable to myrmidons. They tend to utilize more esoteric weapons than the rest of their allies such as volkite, rad, and even phosphex weapons. Most enclaves have at least a small number of robots, larger enclaves can have entire legions of them.

>Biologists (Scions of the Flesh?)
Tend to rely on biologically modified soldiers. Basic soldiers are pseudo astartes akin to Kor Phaeron, although they are also known to utilize augmented abhumans, most notable Ogryn with strength similar to a primarch, and ratlings able to actively slow down their metabolism so they can hold a position for days before taking a shot. Astartes tend to be even more advanced than Bile's New Men, being stronger, faster, and tougher than a normal astartes. Unfortunately their modifications are sometimes unstable and astartes and mortal auxiliaries are known to sometimes break out into cancerous tumors, that at best end up leaving them crippled for life after they are removed, and at worst kill them outright.

>Psykers (Scions of the Mind?)
Carry out breeding programs to create psykers and sometimes even request the assistance of the biologists and mechanicals in augmenting psychic abilities even further. Their basic armies tend to be made up of squads led by psykers able to prenaturally predict the flow of battle, with specialist teams of storm troopers which are entirely made up of psykers. Their astartes are mostly psykers, non-psykers are shunned and either thrown into the fray to die, abandon their order for one of the other orders, or undergo dangerous geneseed modification or mechanical augmentation to gain psychic abilities.

As for some of the specific enclaves
>Medusa
Ferrus has kept his marines on a short leash and have largely avoided falling to the madness of the rest of their brothers. Nonetheless they still make widespread usage of advanced technology and while they may not be as heavily augmented as some of their brothers they are undoubtedly better equipped, with senior officers using weapons and armour crafted by Ferrus Manus himself. They tend to shun the usage of mortal auxiliaries, viewing them as weak, although they are willing to utilize them if the situation is desperate. They are nominally loyal to Lion although the stubborn Ferrus often butts heads with Lion.

>Chemos
Fulgrim has turned his homeworld into a magnificent palace world covered in gardens and crystal towers. The armies of Chemos are highly trained and heavily modified soldiers both mortals and astartes organized into hundreds of different warrior brotherhoods. Seeking worthy challenges they often offer their services to the Imperium, Space Wolves, and Free Legions as mercenaries, although they almost never work with the forces of Chaos. The warriors of Chemos tend to be flamboyant combatants preferring to utilize swords, spears, glaives, and axes over guns and more practical weapons of war.

>Prospero
The great libraries of Prospero are defended by thousands of psychic astartes and hundreds of thousands of human auxiliaries with elite psyker storm trooper squads and psychic senior officers. Often psychic potential and research into the topics of the warp and psychic powers are the only way to advance in Prosperine politics and even the most brilliant military officer is unlikely to find much ability to climb the ranks without psychic abilities. Prospero's astartes and auxiliaries often wage minor raids throughout the galaxy in order to recover lost knowledge or "rescue" powerful psykers from the Imperium or Free Legions.

what i like to think is that the 3 primarchs do work thogether on somethings for example they might take some of the most talented and exellent soldiers they elvated by adding them to a special unit in which the 3 primarchs use their utmost talents to turn them into something amazing.
on what other things do you think they would work thogether?

While I think they would work together I doubt that it would be to the extent of having a single elite corps of soldiers. Remember these enclaves are all largely autonomous only united by a single overarching goal. It would be like all christian kingdoms in the 1600s having a single elite corps of soldiers that they share.

That being said I can easily see there being some sort of knight errant type guys who wander around seeking every method of ascension and working under the most powerful people they can (ie. primarchs).

So a guy might be a psyker recruited into the Thousand Sons. Eventually he might realize "yeah psychic abilities make me strong, but I could be so much stronger" so he goes to an Emperor's Children apothecary and has his geneseed ripped out, modified, and shoved back in him turning him into a super marine. However even this doesn't satisfy his lust for power (by this point we are pretty much talking about a chymeriae librarian in 30k in game terms) so he goes to Ryza or some other former mechanicus world. Once there he has more of his body replaced with machinery. By the end of it all he is an insanely powerful psyker with strength, toughness, and reflexes superior to a custodes and as heavily augmented as a myrmidon.

Imagine if you will a mastery level 3 librarian, give him +1 strength, toughness, and initiative, then give him relentless and a cyber-familiar, and to top it all off throw a darkfire cannon on his shoulder. These should be the sort of knight errants wandering the galaxy looking for ascension, and each of the three ascension primarchs probably have a descend sized corps of them.

I like this thread.

I have but one suggestion, however.

The Alpha Legion is on both the Loyalist and Traitor sides, with Omegon joining the Loyalists, and Alpharius remaining traitorous.

My reasoning would be that Omegon declares that the 'other' Alpharius is a farce, and is an Alpha Legonairre impersonating him, and vice-versa. Omegon would then have everyone call him Omegon to differentiate him from 'Alpharius', causing there to be the Omega Legion for the Loyalists, and the Alpha Legion for the Traitors.

I just want a way to validate my autistic Loyalist Alpha Legion chapter without just using 'counts-as'.

Bump.

>Hand of the regent

So is the Emprah dead in this AU?

Or is he just being difficult?

I feel like since Corvus was a revolutionary that the raven guard would not have remained loyal.

Also since the khan was seriously considering not taking a side during the heresy he might be more likely to be a wandering Warlord than serve a new master in chaos, the wolves on the other hand would be prime candidates for chaos. Maybe have them serve some greater wolf daemon.

I like this! I actually suggested this here and I'm quite the fan of Alpha Legion being fucking everywhere, just generally stirring up trouble.

4 legion's would make for a shitty crusade, and don't forget, Big E is a narcissist that hates when things don't go his way. I wouldn't be surprised if that, after having to put down two of his Primarchs during the early parts of the Great Crusade, then later having fourteen of his remaining eighteen Primarchs, along with their legions openly rebel against his Imperium, he decides to just write the entire thing off as a loss.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did after seeing his dream go down in flames over relatively petty squabbling.

> Alpha legion infiltrates itself.

Medusa would be a testing ground, where warriors come from across the galaxy to test themselves against the planets dangers and each other.

Eh, seeing how the Imperium has to at least actively fight the free legions I suppose a tiny bit of unbalanced between chaos and the Imperium.

>So is the Emprah dead in this AU?
I mentioned that either he died and the webway was a success or he is still a cripple

I think the Wolves should be roving bands that attack anyone they perceive as a heretic (mostly Lion's Kingdom, PoA enclaves and Free Legions, but they have been know to attack Imperials for one reason or another). They fortified heavily and while they receive aid from the Imperium, since they are nominally part of it, they don't really follow orders. The Imperium consider them a problem to be dealt with once the Shards have been restored.
The Wolves leave administration of their worlds to serfs and too-wounded warriors. They concentrate on pumping out as many marines as possible and making armies from those who don't pass the muster so they can continue their eternal war against traitors and heretics.

So do people like my ideas on the organization of the Path of Ascension? If so I would like to add it to 1d4chan.

For the Imp2nd, I imagine them being very similar to the Great Crusade structure, but the Legion providing support for the human troops, not (at least, the impression I got) the other way around. The Imperium is for humanity after all and the Space Marines are guardians, supporting human endeavor.
So, human troops are at the forefront, trained to high standards and marshaled into legions with Space Marines only unleashed on the most dire of enemies (in this Shattered Imperium, that would be other Marines a lot of the time).
Perhaps they also have xenos auxiliaries (the Tau come to mind), but I'm not sure if they'd be slaves or actual citizens.

In terms of governance, again we can take inspiration from Rome: serve in the army, pay your taxes, don't rebel and we'll make you Roman, or in this case, Imperial, with probably the requirement to send aspirants to become Marines. The Imperium proper has too many spinning plates to try and get every planet to the same standard, but I'd like to think that 2ndus would expand a lot slower, but bring every world they conquer to the same technological and societal level as them. You are citizen, so your rights are the same as any other. Of course, if they want to be uplifted is another matter, since I'm sure they'd be preaching the Imperial Truth rather than the Creed.
I think somewhere in this thread or the last, someone mentioned the idea that Gulliman stepping down to a military command role, allowing a Senate to govern. I heartily support this idea, reinforcing the belief that Marines are guardians, not rulers (a fact lost on Horus and his traitor legions).

I'd also like to point out that the 2ndus would be right in front of Tyranid invasion on the current map, so that could be a large pressure on them, not just the Free Legions, Wolves and possibly the Imperium proper.

>Perhaps they also have xenos auxiliaries (the Tau come to mind), but I'm not sure if they'd be slaves or actual citizens.
My thoughts were than Imp2 would actually ally with xenos perhaps going so far as to adopt craftworlds as protectorates. Craftworlds can hang out safely in Imperial Secondus orbit and be protected from anything that attacks their craftworlds. In exchange they would have to agree to attach their aspect warriors to legions to help defend the Imp2.

Everything else I agree with completely.

How do the knights work in this setting, since their loyalties were split between the Imperium of old and the mechanicus?

It almost seems like if the knights were to remain loyal to the Imperium and mechanicus and not any other faction, that they would almost replace the asartes as the Imperium's go-to big billy badasses.

To elaborate on this, I admit I am not on the up-and-up with regards to the knights and what their numbers looked like, but it seems to me that if all of the knights loyal to the Imperium retained their loyalty to the Imperium whereas only 4 out of 10 asartes legions retained their loyalty to the Imperium, that would create a significantly different balance of power that would change the way the Imperium does battle.

Granted, this operates on the assumption that all knights/houses retain their former loyalties. Again, I'm not the most knowledgeable person about them.

Furthermore, now that I'm thinking in terms of power dynamics, there are some serious structural issues at play here.

If the Emperor is dead or indisposed, who leads the Imperium?

There are a few problems here. The first is that in this universe many of the primarchs are still alive and kicking. You would think one of them would step up to the plate to try and lead the Imperium, given that they are the closest thing the Emperor has to heirs to his empire. The second problem has to with the Free Legion. The stated reason for the Free Legion breaking from the Imperium is that they viewed the Emperor as a tyrant and did not agree with his rule. Well, now the Emperor is dead/indisposed and is no longer leading the Imperium. Thus their reason for breaking from the Imperium is lost.

In order for this setting to work, the Emperor actually needs to be alive, or there needs to be a reason for why none of the primarchs have stepped up to the plate as the new Emperor or whatever. Additionally, there needs to be a reason why the Free Legion persists in separating from the Imperium despite the source of their grievances, the Emperor, not being there anymore.

If the Emperor doesn't personally designate a successor, the Primarchs may choose one from among themselves. Or have a new 'High Lords of Terra' with each of the Primarchs having a seat alongside normal humans. So there could be four Primarchs and eight Humans.

Looks good, nail that bitch to the page and continue being awesome.

Yeah I like It, I'll Whack it up there if you want?

With regards to the PoA, I think we should have a couple of Enclaves that are more extreme than the basic versions of their own orders.

For instance, a Machinist order that believes in turning everybody in a non -leadership role into servitors.

Or a Psyker order that believes in trying to follow the example of the Old Ones and become a race of pure psychic essence with no physical form.

In my head, adorn took over as regent and essentially installed the same ultra tyrannical administration as the 40k universe. So, in the eyes of the Free Legions, the Imperium is even more corrupt and oppressive than it once was.

I suppose that the division of the Imperium means that the Imperial Guard is not wasted drowning the enemies in blood.

Sounds good.

Super extremist biologists splice inhuman genes into some of their New Men. Sometimes even, it is rumoured but never proven, xeno genes. half-elder maybe?

The Imperial Guard is most likely the same, at least from th point of view of the Imperium. Though other human states likely use radically different mortal auxiliaries

Ultramar Auxilia would be designed to seamlessly integrate into Legion Battlegroups in a more benign form of the Tyrant's Legion designed to enhance both the human troops and the Space Marines.

We need to decide which Loyalist Primarches died and which survived The Shattering, because one of them could step up to the plate.
In terms of the Free Legion, they broke off because they don't like the idea of an Imperium at all. That's why they run their planets Mongol style. They didn't like the Emperor, they didn't like Horus and they probably still have issue with the Lion's Kingdom and ImpSec, so there is still plenty to rage about.

Dorn is alive, and the stress of a millenia of loss and attempting to control the Imperium has clearly gotten to him, causing him to visibly age even with a primarchs constitution. He rarely sees active combat, playing more of a supportive role in administration.

Sanguinius is long dead.

Corax is alive but his current whereabouts are unknown to anyone but the Raven Guard, presumably he's fighting the enemies of man covertly.

Vulken simply disappeared into the Webway. Finding him requires similar shenanigans with the artifacts.

If that one ever happened, it would totally be radical join project with the psykers.

For the DAngels state, government should be organized around a rigid caste/ feudal system, perhaps something like this?

> each world is controlled by a lord, who is a direct descendant from the imperial army officers that threw in their lot with the Lion.
> loyalty of these families is ensured by the obligation of having relatives in the direct line to serve in the sector capital.
>society itself is defined by caste, with many positions in the administration being, partially, heditary, but with very flexible laws of succession. Adoption being a common way to bypass incompetent family members.
Each planet has a requirement to raise troops, equip these, as well as supplying a cadre of aspirants for induction to the Lions Finest.
> each sector is overseen by a ruling body, tasked with safekeeping, and are expected to maintain an army and fleets for this purpose. Resources for this are drawn from the worlds in the sector.
> in parrallel with this is the Legion, which maintains a presence, has its own fleets and is allowed to draw troops from the fief over which they have granted custody.

I feel like after all these centuries, Johnson probably would come to rule with a similar demeanor to pic related.

All this creativity for another 40k what-if the Heresy didn't happen like it did... If only we got half the enthusiasm to make legit settings.

Actually on the map Ryza is within the domain of the PoA and I had an idea on the former Forgeworld.
>Following the civil war Ryza decides to just build hordes of robots, eventually the entire defences of Ryza are made up of robots and fully automated defences.
>Ryza becomes more and more obsessed with improving their autonomous defences and robots until the odds of malifica are dangerously high
>Some time in the distant past (say M36) Ryza is invaded by a mixed Chaos army
>Initially Ryza does extremely well and inflicts devastating losses on Chaos while giving next to no ground
>Suddenly one of their robots gains self awareness and turns on its masters, this begins to happen more and more until Ryza's population is being exterminated by the bulk of their own forces
>Some high ranking members of Ryza's government escape but the bulk of the population die
>Ryza is currently a dead world with malevolent robots wandering the planet
>Various PoA enclaves have sent expeditions to the dead world as have the mechanicus but very few return and those that do return with their number greatly diminished

so detail my idea a bit more, general the Calibanite state would look a bit like this

Planets are grouped into sectors, with each planet raising troops for local defence.
Sectors follow the Imperial template, and raise troops and fleets to combat threats that local rulers cannot handle. resources for this are drawn from the planets that make up the sector.

In parallel to this, you have the DA legion, which would look like this.

Lion as supreme commander
Advisory body/ executives below that, advise and if needed coordinate efforts.
below this are the Primus Cohorts. Chapters and demi legions of Dark Angels under direct, centralized command. mostly consist of veteran troops, and are under direct command of the Lion himself. If the Kingdom of Heaven goes on the offensive, these are the units that make up the bulk of the army.
In total these units make up approx 60% of the total Astartes strength.
the remaining 40% of the Legion serves in the Fiefdoms, a administrative unit that might encompass multiple sectors or only parts of it. These units are tasked with ensuring loyalty as well as supplying a cadre of elite troops to any large scale conflict that the worlds under their protection cannot handle themselves.
To do this, they are granted a fleet, and recruitment rights, both Astartes as well as elite cadres of troops (think Tempestus Scions).
For this privilege each Fief is required to hand over Astartes and troops to the central force as the need requires.

We do get those. But you're just more likely to get enthusiasm for something that people are already interested in. I suppose settings made from the ground up can suffer from the sheer incoherence of different fan bases on Veeky Forums, whereas everybody here is at least similar enough to enjoy 40k

>Lion makes all the planetary nobles live on the Rock for one month a year
>All the nobles desperately try to appease him to gain favor
>The Rock itself is a lavish palace with the Watchers acting as both servants and the ears of the Lion, to spy on the individual nobles.
>Elaborate court rituals
>He has portraits of himself everywhere, dresses lavishly as a King should.
>The ecclesiarchy actually has dignitaries in the Lions kingdom, the emperor is still worshiped, however it's alongside the Lion, who's the rightful heir to the true Imperium.

I kind of agree, Lion should be an enlightened despot/monarch of sorts. This is my opinion on the empire.
>Lion is in charge, planets have very little autonomy and are directly under his thumb, although they are subdivided into countries
>The empire is divided into military regions each being given to a legion (10,000+) of space marines who recruit from the region and are tasked with defending it.
>Each legion includes its own fleet
>Lion leads the special first legion, the largest and best equipped legion he draws its members from the best of every legion
>Mechanicus has been outright disbanded in Lion's realm and their planets fully absorbed as manufacturing worlds
So Lion is leading a unique faction in that his military forces with the exception of militias is entirely made up of space marines. While their offensive wars are often extremely successful due to better technology (no mechanicus to horde the good shit) and only fielding astartes. However in a prolonged war against the Imperium or Free Legions Lion would likely simply be ground into oblivion.

>>The ecclesiarchy actually has dignitaries in the Lions kingdom, the emperor is still worshiped, however it's alongside the Lion, who's the rightful heir to the true Imperium.

So the Dark Angels are now literal heretics?

Lion is literally egomaniac (not without reason as he was the greatest tactician among the primarchs) the primarch. So yeah as long as people worship him too I can imagine he wouldn't mind religion.

See, I always thought that to a machine's logic Chaos would be the most terrifying thing there could be. Humans and organiscs can think of odd stuff, but a machine's mind operates on the a principal of 1s and 0s, so when Chaos turns up it would be like if it went up to the robots and said "Hello, I am 2."

So while the rest of it could work, I do think that this world of machines sending ships out to attack warp-storms and such or just turning up in Chaos related conflicts and going to town would be pretty great.

So...the Lion King?

I imagine it less of a world that actively attacks stuff and more like a passive tomb world. Everyone who deals with technology wants to go there but if you go there you will almost certainly end up dying from an automated turret or a robot. Granted I wouldn't mind some sort of subtle horror like "recent expeditions to Ryza have discovered unknown models of robots that no known records of them exist. Whether these robots were simply secret projects awakened since the collapse of the world or coming from some unknown source isn't known but the latter idea is disconcerting towards the Path of Ascension."

>world of machines that for whatever reason drove off all the humans
>still keeps the vox channels open but firewalled to hell
>drop in without clearance and you get killed
>you can be given a pass for a short stay if you give the machines the one thing they can't make for themselves
>new designs to optimise that they will send over the updated version of

A machine world that just desperately wants to optimise things but has no capacity to make new things once it has already sorted out the flaws in the stuff it has so has to rely on a system of data trade with organics sound pretty cool to me.

I was leaning more towards some sort of terror rather than another faction. Sort of like the vaults on Mars but an entire planet. You probably shouldn't go there, you will probably die if you do go there, but you can't just ignore all that tech.

That sounds pretty neat.

Add to that an overseeing AI "god" unknowable and inhumanly grand and terrifying in it's thought processes. Insane but only by our standards. Sanity is determined by the majority and it is singular and therefore sanity is not applicable.

It is suspected that it has made an expedition to the Noctis Labyrinthus and come back with something. The forbidden underworld of Mars feels quieter now although still people seldom return.

Long range divinations by trained psykers show mechanical constructs that are impossible by current known methods and baffling in reason and purpose. Attempts to get close enough to see reliably seldom end well.

There is a multi-national fleet stationed near that system, no government, Imperial, Renegade or Chaos wants the horrors of Old Night rolling back across the stars.

My thoughts on religion on this new galactic order.

>PoA
Mechanicals are followers of the Omnissiah in one form or another. Many worship him as a sort of ultimate ancestor and creator of all order and reason. Some see him as the personification of the underlying mechanisms of reality. None see him as the warlord from Old Earth.

The Biologicals have an ancestor worship thing going on as well as a veneration for animus and anima that often overlaps somewhat with the beliefs of the Mechanicals.

The Psychics have many, many, many highly localized pantheons of small gods that are answerable to natural forces. They know of Chaos, obviously, but they tend to think of it as the 4 flavors of shit that malevolent spirits can come in.

>Free Legions
As with all things they don't give much of a shit so long as the boat remains unrocked. The two big exceptions being Chaos and Emperor worship as both of these things will get you crucified. Their realm is a haven of the old faiths of before the Imperium.

>Dark Angels
The religion in their realm operates as suggested

>Space Wolves
Keeping hold of their tribal Old Gods

>Ultramarines
Fuck it lets go full Roman. Pantheon of gods. Emperor as a now dead Zeus, Omnissiah as a smith god, Eldar gods as the now gone Titans, primarchs as demi-gods and Chaos as a vile anti-gods. Each world has some variations on this but this is the constant core.

>Imperium
They had a "totally not a religion" personality cult worthy of Best Korea. Over time it changed into the Ecclesiarchy we all know. The Promethian Faith of Vulkan is a reformation movement within the Ecclesiarhy. Also is present as minority faiths the Star Child Disciples of at least 3 types, Redemptionist, Religio Mortis and a few others. They also, at least on paper, venerate the Omnissiah and Emperor as the same being.

>Chaos
Chaos gonna Chaos. This time the emphasis is mostly on Undivided. Its rare and exceptional/insane individuals who can pledge themselves to one and only one god.

Okay so general Primarch rolecall so we can figure more character/faction stuff with that established. Once we know where the big movers and shakers are, we'll have a good axis to spin from.

Lion: Ruling his Kingdom from the Rock, brooding and considering how to take the Imperium (as is his divine right)
Fulgrim: MIA?
Perturabo: Travelling the Free Realms, building grand fortresses? Ruling from Olympia?
Khan: Daemon Prince in the Eye of Terror
Russ: Dead? Still sallying forth to raid PoA/The Kingdom
Dorn: Ruling as Emperor's Regent, weary and aged
Curze: Dead? Still travelling the Free Realms and bringing justice?
Sanguinius: Dead
Ferrus: MIA? Upgraded to ultimate supercomputer?
Angron: I'd say if he survived The Shattering, he should be dead soon after, either in battle or thanks to the Nails (or both)
Guilliman: Grand Commander of ImpSec
Mortarion: On Barburus, over seeing his Free Realms?
Mangus: MIA? Meditating on the nature of the universe? Ascended to another plane of existance?
Horus: Dead
Lorgar: Daemon Prince?
Vulkan: Dead? MIA?
Corax: Dead? MIA? Still around?
Alpharius: MIA, Traitor
Omegon: MIA, Loyalist

Emperor: Dead on the Throne

Good, add to 1d4chan? Bad, discuss more?

I'm on board with most of that. I'd say for the most part go with MIA or otherwise indisposed from the battlefield.

Looks good.

I think Fulgrim, Ferrus, and Magnus should all be alive, just give them stuff to do instead of conquering the galaxy (because galactic conquest isn't even their goal).
>Ferrus is trying to keep his sons from fucking up everything with technology
>Fulgrim is turning Chemos into a model paradise world running it with amazing efficiency and doing art and shit on the side
>Magnus is sitting in a pyramid reading books and maybe working on his own webway or something

I would have as many Primarchs alive as possible. It adds to the gods walking amongst men feeling.

As a whole I don't really like MIA primarchs it always felt like a copout to me. My thoughts on the fates of the other MIA primarchs or undecided background primarchs that I didn't just cover

>Perturabo is focusing on fortifying worlds against the onslaught of the Tyranids, having created thousands of fortress worlds along the eastern fringes
>Russ is still alive and has recently been leading a massive crusade against some faction (I would say chaos although PoA, Lion, and Free Legions would all work fine)
>Curze died heroically liberating several worlds from the Imperium
>Angron initially was led towards damnation by Lorgar but due to the actions of his legion and other brothers he came to his senses and turned on Chaos even harder than the Imperium for a while, chasing the fleeing CSM to the Eye of Terror, he died from his butcher's nails near Cadia after tearing his way through the traitors slaughtering hundreds
>Mortarion is taking a more active role to liberating worlds (as opposed to Perturabo's hold what he have philosophy) and when he isn't launching a crusade against the Imperium or Lion (who he sees as just as bad if not worse than the Emperor) he is building up for another
>I actually like the idea of Angron killing Lorgar before he dies, but if we want Lorgar alive he is probably the same as he otherwise would be
>Vulkan was killed in war against Mortarion, he had considered Mortarion's opinions on the Imperium largely valid especially since the Emperor's death, but thought the free legions were going about liberating people the wrong way
>Corax is supreme commander of the Imperial Military, while Dorn handles politics and government Corax handles war
>Alpharius and Omegon can both be MIA because Alpha Legion

Magnus is also Dumbeldore to an extent. He trains the monstrously strong psykers nobody else will touch.

Could we not undead Sanguinius?
Make him scarred and maimed but alive, and full bitter resentment towards his non-loyal brothers, who abandoned the Emperor at such a critical time.
Have him as warlord that occasionally leads counter crusades against the Imperium's enemies and goes full RIP AND TEAR when he comes across his brothers' forces

I actually like that idea, but I think he should be 100% crusader like Black Templars with the Black Rage. Sanguinius charges headlong into an enemy faction with everyone he can gather and starts taking worlds and decimating their populations. Once his offensive begins to slow he turns around and attacks another faction. At the end of the day he probably isn't even helping the Imperium much since his crusades result in heavy casualties and the sectors he takes fall soon after to enemy counter-attacks.

I like the idea of Angron killing Lorgar, since with how many fractures there are between legions it'd be a little weird if at least one primarch didn't kill another in glorious battle.

I don't like the idea of Vulkan just up and dying to Mortarion though. I believe Vulkan needs to remain alive and within the Imperium as the outspoken voice of reason seeking to temper the resentments between his various brothers.

Especially if Sanguinus is alive and in rip and tear crusade mode as and suggest, I feel Vulkan needs to be there to counteract that as well as Dorn's jaded pragmatism.

>I believe Vulkan needs to remain alive and within the Imperium as the outspoken voice of reason seeking to temper the resentments between his various brothers.
The issue is that the Imperium needs some primarchs to die or there isn't really anything to keep them from just roflstomping Lion, Russ, or the PoA. I mean if you can create a justification for them to not just up and rape one faction (ie Dorn is busy filing paperwork) than I am okay with any particular primarchs being alive, and in fact like the idea that the primarchs are alive but still can't do much. Adds a bit of an extra layer of hopelessness that actual 40k lacks. In 40k all they seemingly need is one person to return and everything will be fixed, with so many primarchs alive in shattered imperium those magic bullet characters are mostly alive but still no more able to meaningfully change things than a regular Imperial Army general.

>See threat
>oh wow I always thought more Imperial civil war would be cool, think of the possibilities!
>really just reorganizing spacemarine factions into shittier divisions
>really just talking about marines and primarchs again

Wow, I can't believe how shit all of you managed to make this almost foolproof idea. Its the same shit every "giz dun" project on Veeky Forums, except maybe even shittier than "X CULTURE MARINES GUIZE!"

Its funny, because I know at least some of you here very rightly bitch about other creatively bankrupt creations like "lol aztec elves" or Chinese Dwarves. Yet here you all, once again talking about fucking marines and primarchs again, adding bare fucking minimum ideas and garbage obsession.

>lol troll
If this wasn't a garbage project, then there would be answers other than "probably fragmented like everything else" for everything that isn't a fucking Space Marine.

Feel free to present your own ideas. Or you know bitch about a thread you could easily hide.

I will agree with your assertion that simply fragmenting everything else in space as a result of the schism within the Imperium is pretty bland and needs work. There are more creative ideas out there than that.

Thing is, this whole deal is a work in progress. Since the Horus Heresy had such a massive impact on why the 40k setting was what it was, it makes sense to focus on the changes to the heresy first and then extrapolate from there.

We could just lay out a barebones framework of what legion goes where and then jump to what is happening with the Mechanicus, or the Inquisition, or the Ecclesiarchy, or the Knights, or any other kinds of factions, but it doesn't do much good to spread so thin like that because when you go back to add detail to the legions you're bound to have contradictions.

To create a coherent re-imagining of the setting, we need to know where all the power players are and what happened to them first, back in 30k, and then once that is done extrapolate that into 40k.

This does call into question a point though; what is Eldrad and the power players within the Eldar doing while this is going on? How do the the players from the Imperium deal with them? To make a coherent setting we can't just look at what happens to the marines and the primarchs; it's absolutely important to figure out whose alive, whose dead, and where they are/what there goals are but we can't get stuck in a ditch and focus only on them.