Warhammer 40k General

Makes up for finally replacing the missing "the".

Quick question, making a 875 T'au list, using a T'au commander as my Leader because it's a really nice model. What else should I add, other than Riptides, aiming for a gundam-esq force

What the fuck, why do dark eldar have such a bullshit limitation? They should be able to go a full 6" like everyone else rather than half range.

You're playing a list of the actual planet T'au?

Read through both.
I haven't looked much at Elysian. But I have Scions. They're pretty flat. Get two Special weapons and shoot shit.

If you bring a riptide to an 875 point game you deserve to be buried alive.

Slaanesh stole 3 inches from every Eldar player's dick and added them to her own.

If I can fit it on a 6x6 table at warhammer world on Sunday, then yeah.

>875
Why such an odd nmber?
>aiming for a gundam-esq force
Oh because you are a piece of shit.

Load up on Crisis suits for troops and a broad side or two. Maybe a small handful of stealth suits.

just haywire it to death

in all honesty, what i see wrong with all vehicles, which include the Monolith is the fact that an expensive and supposedly durable unit can be taken out with a single shot in the first place.

let's lay out some pros vs cons and we'll also see why Tau are such bastards currently with Riptides and Storm Surges

Vehicles
>Can be one shot with avast multitude of weapons
>can be shaken
>Can be stunned
>can be immobilized
>can have weapons destroyed
>cannot overwatch
>even many of the strongest can be melee'd to death by weak units
>can be glanced to death by weak attacks

frankly, they have so many weaknesses that their supposed advantages just make them gigantic free points.

MCreatures
>Can have saves
>can have FNP
>Cannot be shaken
>Cannot be stunned
>Cannot have weapons destroyed
>Cannot be Immobilized
>Can Overwatch
>can have invul saves and many other infantry benefits
>Can only be 1 shot by rarely seen special rules or weapons

Now, usually these advantages are offset, typically too much, by having a heavy pricetag, mobility, or limited shooting capabilities. Tau units however don't suffer from any of these three. They either have the range, have the cost, or have the mobility and in the case of the Riptide especially has all three.

What i believe should happen is vehicles have some of their weaknesses removed.

I would start by giving vehicles a saving throw vs Glancing hits vs attacks that are not AP2, AP1, or Destroyer. This would take effect prior to any other rules such as shots being modified (IE downgraded from penetrating hits). This would make it more enjoyable for players using vehicles (because sitting on your hands when being shot at sans a chance to save sucks ass) and make them more durable

I'd also increase the HP pool of all vehicles across the board by +1.

As a last change, if an Explodes result is scored it would instead change from Vehicle Destroyed to D3 HP are lost, the same as Super Heavies.

Nonono, I don't want riptides in my list lol, too chunky for me to carry around.

Run Farsight Enclaves
HQ - Commander
Troops - two units of Crisis Suits
LoW - Tau'unar

Fun and fluffy list.
Just ignore the hate, they're just not as good as you. :)

Reposting because I'm hoping for some help.

Well, I was talking to a irl friend yesterday, and said 875 would give me more freedom than a 800, that we normally play in a doubles format at our lfgc

The IA4 elysian list is all vets and you can take squads of 10 dudes all with special weapons.

Weird. To each their own though.under 1000 we play steps of 250 and after that it is 500pts a step, though we average 2000pts.

most games around here are 1850.

seems like 925 would be more like it

Cool, apparently the shop I go to avoids 1850 because I guess it used to be a common tournament level and they saw a lot of copy+paste tourney lists. That was before my time but it is an active shop with a low WAAC count.

Thanks for the help, I loaded all in battlescribe, and without any upgrades or anything in the Commander, the Ta'unar takes me over to 1100+ points, would it be worth swapping it for something else?

first MCs and Vehicles are not the same thing, stop using that as the main way you judge vehicles. Vehicles can move 12", vehicles can shoot more than 2 weapons. Vehicles are immune to many psychic powers that effect mcs. Vehicles can't be forced to make many characteristic tests that MCs have.

Many vehicles have trouble under the current rules, and there are some very good mcs under the current rules. These are seperate statements against the whole of the game, stop using one to justify the other because they are only related to each other by the whole game state, not a direct comparison.

Second: house rule 'subtract remaining hp from vehicle damage table'. One shots are prevented, immoblized is unlikely against a full hp vehicle, etc. Biggest benefit to the expensive vehicles who need it most, and super easy to implement.

He's meming you dude. Don't take a fucking taunar. Its even bigger than riptides.

If you want a battlesuit list, just run farsight enclaves and take a bunch of battlesuits. Get a good mix of differently equipped squads and units and you'll be fine

yeah he was definitely trolling you if the Riptide is too much to carry.

Commander, ~6 Crisis Suits and a pair of Broadsides should get you closer after upgrades. Dont forget to add some drones.

Anyone got the links to the ork fandex

the list is actually super weak. A melee focussed list like that is begging for an Avatar of Khain.

Phoenix lords are overpriced. You picked of the best, but he's best burried in a long range troop blob which you lack.
You have no way good way to kill vehicles.

This isn't just non-cheesy this is bad. As in even the better ork lists will give you serious challenge bad.
If you are playing against an ork player though, should be fun.

The archive does.

Thanks guys, I'll take all this in mind, like I said, I'm gonna be at Warhammer World on Sunday, so I'll pick up the books on Friday when I get paid, and grab a Commander when I'm there

Stealth guys are awesome in low points game. Try two teams with fusion balster and target lock. You can add some crisis suits and maybe hammerhead (or skyray if you expect flyers).

>not the same thing
i'm glad you noticed. the point isn't that they're the same but they fulfill very similar roles
>move 12"
most yes if giving up their shooting

>shoot more than two weapons
if they have them, and after 3 are reduced to snap shots, never mind if they have an ordnance weapon

>immune to psychic powers that effect MCs
and there are some that MCs don't care about. moot point

>characteristic tests
rare and hardly a factor in the overall meta

>stop using one to justify the other/not a direct comparison

again, they fulfill similar roles so yes the two can be compared. You already did it yourself with Psychic powers and movement so let's move on.

>house rule
i actually like your suggestion. I'd argue it should be up to a roll to see if it takes effect however. classify it as "Backup Systems" or some such

I thought I saw fire dragons in there. Weak list but not unplayable. dome additional AT sources would be hella advisable for sure.

Not him but I am a noob looking into Tau and those stealth suits look really cool. I plan on having them (and some sniper drones) support some (24) fire warriors in what is shaping up to be an infantry heavy list. Not sure which tank to get and I know I could get the ghost keel for the cheese formation but I may get some tidewall stuff once I understand how it works. Devil Fish and Piranhas are another strong alternative.

So many choices with this army.

About how many MEQ can you fit into 750 points?

I want to know about how many 3+ saves I need to be able to overcome.

People were talking about a formation for Wraiths that lets me use my Wraithguard as cover for infantry? Would that run okay with a Harlequin detachment attached? Is Wraithblades + Harlequins TOO melee focused? Do Spiritseers and Shadowseers play nice together? Can I use Wraithlords to cover the weaknesses of Harlequin lists? I really like both Wraiths and Harlequins and I'm wondering if this is an opportunity to use both at once.

see

Assuming a fewupgrades and accounting for an HQ, you're looking at maybe 30 or so Marines. Might be a bit more or less depending on how they set up the list.

no, fulfilling similar roles are not enough for them to be considered solely in regards to each other. They have very different rules, my point was to show that they have very different rules.

If you think vehicles are weak, talk about them being weak in general. MCs are a type of infantry. You might as well judge them against infantry in general. Infantry can have T5, even 6. All the rest of those things hold true against infantry.

About the house rule: No for 2 reasons. First because it loses one of the house rules best benefits, simple implementation. No extra tables, no extra rolls.
Second because that sort of thing is already handled by individual special rules. Spirit Stones, Machine Spirits, living metal, etc. Basically it already exists so I'm not adding anything else to do that, other than noting that results of 0 or less don't have any effect.

None, they are all t5 and half of them have a rerollable 2+ jink.

I have a pretty nasty 1000pt list for teams that's even worse.

48

Long time tau player here.
Take a stealth suit leader with the locator beacon. It's great.

Correction, if I want to be a dick all 12 of them can have the 2+ rerollabe jink.

6 Ravenwing Black Knights is 240 + Darkshroud w/ Heavy Bolter (80) x 2 lead by a Servoharness Techmarine on a bike (110, comes with 2+sv) = 750.

Wow that is WAACy, I would never do that.

53 marines base
So assume 40 with a few upgrades and maybe a cheap HQ

you are correct, I missed them because he was talking about scorpions earlier, and typically if I run double HB it's for a doubl HB+SS shrine, so I read that as scoprions.

Fire dragons are really good attaking out one or two heavy tanks, but if he's facing a fully meched list and has to rely on just them and Ra, he's gonna be in trouble.

Still you are correct, it's playable, but very much on the weak side. Plenty of room for improvement while still being fair. Flamer and melta on the guardians, an avatar, squad of dark reapers. Something like that.

>IA4
Their current rules are from IA3v2, so trying to use an older set won't alleviate worries regarding their legality.

if that was your point you didn't do a good job of it.
>if you think vehicles are weak
vehicles can be destroyed in one shot with weapons that are from from lacking in abundance in the current meta. but for most vehicles they are simply glanced to death with ease

>you're not allowed to compare units because i say so
dumb

>individual rules
could theoretically solve everything, but they dont and tend to cause more confusion than clarity. start with a solid base and work from there, not the other way around. Removing the opportunity to one shot a vehicle would be too strong, there should still remain a chance for it to happen.

Please guys, just stop replying to the "vehicles suck compared to MCs" guy. I'm sure he's just a shitposter that knows it derails threads. Nobody can actually enjoy posting the same shit in thread after thread, can they?

I'm recommending against it because it's a bad habit to get into for arguing. Indeed it's bad in this instance.
There isn't causality here. You can justify all of the problems with vehicles without reference to MCs. You're argument gets worse when you bring in MCs.

And you didn't understand my point about the house rule. I'm not talking about building a full system from the ground up. I'm talking about a one step simple patch to what we've already got, that does most of what we want.
If a rule to global rule to ignore vehicle damage results was added, then how it intereacted with all of those already present individual special rules would have to be address.

I'm looking to start playing Tyranids, is a melee based list somewhat viable?

I don't mind losing, so long as I can put up a fight.

Provided the following is true about your opponents:

No grav spam
No invisibility
No superheavies
No D weapons, or very very few

Then yes, Nids can do well enough on the table. You'll play a tricky game of getting to melee but once you do everything should be fine.

Not overly so. You might be able to pull off something with Tervigons and spamming a fuckton of Hormagaunts and Gargoyles and the like, but I'm not sure if you're interested in having to use a tidal wave of models just to have a chance to get into CC.

Zoanthropes and Venomthropes could help provide support to a degree.

the comparison is for the sake of perspective and a partial understanding of why it is Tau are so powerful at the moment. Notice their killer lists don't tend to include a lot of vehicles. It's to highlight that there is a problem with vehicles currently being too weak.

and no, i understand the point with your house rule. it's good but too good. and yes, you're right individual codexes would need to react to it but you don't do so by making them attempt to fix a broken rule. Your proposed idea would be too strong. My criticism isn't that you have to build from the ground up but that the foundation you're laying is shaky.

So I recently came into a couple crisis suits, and I planned on adding them as a couple 'ace' style units to my otherwise infantry based Tau force. Are there any cool or off-the-wall loadouts I should consider? Not to concerned with points or overall effectiveness.

>Removing the opportunity to one shot a vehicle would be too strong, there should still remain a chance for it to happen.
Opinion discarded.

Okay so avatar of Khaine is 195 pts so that puts the list at 1608. I'll add another pair of falcons to get to 1878, so that leaves 122 points to play with. Maybe more rangers?

>tau list
this is a fact of those individual MCs being insanely undercost.
Wraithlords aren't taken over tanks even in fun eldar lists. Tyrannids are one of the weakest factions despite behing MC heavy. etc etc. You're complicating the problem by bringing up MCs as a general factor, when it's not MCs in general that are the problem.
The vehicle problem is a general one, not tied to the MC rule. don't confuse the argument.

>too strong/broken
really, because the typical complaint I get when I talk about it is that it's too weak.
And the one test I've had so far went great.

And what's wrong with the foundation other than not having the possibility of one lascannon shot take down a landraider?

Elysians are so awesome I wish they got a little more love

>the picture shitpost war is still going on

Oh well.

Quick question. How much would a full Blood Angels Chapter cost. I mean ENTIRE BA Chapter. So

1000 'Basic Troops'
30 Honour Guard (29 + Leader)
Chaplains
Captains
Special Characters
35 Dreadnoughts
Loads of tanks (forgot how many)
60 odd Thunderhawks

£15k?

The new FAQ doesn't allow you to take multiple relics from the same list on one IC. If you have multiple lists of relics you can take from (Crimson Slaughter or Black Legion CSM, for instane?), can you take more than one?

Keep up the good jab with these High-Quality General pictures you keep making dood!

Let's just use this one. Change it up a little to make it "Warhammer 40k General"

Honestly, I'm more of a fan of this General picture myself desu senpai.

GW did a one time offer to sell all the Ultramarines Chapter, codex compliant and all, a tad mote than a thousand marines. About £9.5K I believe.
Worst thing is, it was sold in less than a week.

While I'm not new to the 40k universe, I am new to the tabletop. I played the Dawn of War games and frequently GM'd games of Only War and Deathwatch. Recently I began playing the tabletop after purchasing 1500pts of Imperial Guard, the Astra Militarum Codex (Why the name change?), the Basic Rule Book and the Cadian Supplement. I have a question though, a friend gave me an Infantry Platoon of Catachan, where do I find their rules or are they just a regular Infantry Platoon? The rest of my army is Cadian.

Catachans use the Astra Militarum rulebook, they used to have their own rules. So basically just do whatever you want with them

Ugh, I'm so tired of facing a sea of grey models all the time.

[spoilers]Grey Knights need to get a less shit colour scheme[/spoilers]

You know, this General Picture honestly upsets me. It shows minimal effort at the hand of whoever made it, and is an over glorified wallpaper slideshow. Even the meme image required a little effort and creativity in order to fucking add to it or change it. This is just blatant shitposting. Literally kill yourself for trying to force your shitty wallpaper general.

No one knows about grey knights, so bitching about the does nothing

Painting them right really helps mitigate the greyness. Here's my latest ones. I really need to work on blending. It's my weakest skill.

Fuck. So £9.5k for just the Marines or does that include vehicles (Dread + Tanks?).

If not, I'm fucked, as that'd put it up to £30k unless I get a massive discount for such a huge order or use recasters. But if I used recasters, then GW wouldn't show it in Warhammer World.

>fucks up spoilering

Just use CTRL + S lad.

I've always like Grey Knights colours. Red, White, Brass on Grey, with blue/gold on weapons.

you could paint them a different shade of metal. though it does follow fluff for them to have a basic generic paint scheme they take no pride in to deter daemons/chaos

The new Space Wolves book coming out might have us losing a named character if the rumour is true.

Oh no no no, thats the WHOLE CHAPTER. Vehicles, drop pods, and all that jazz.
Litteraly every company with its assigned vehicles, plus the reserve ones, as per the codex rules.

>us
Will said named character be usable by CSM?
Or just make Space Wolves allies with Chaos on the table top since they are all heretics and mutants

If they actually progressed the main story line which of the Astartes Chapters would have the most turn Chaos?

Does anyone happen to know if the Damocles novel is in the mega folder? I might just be an idiot.

Nobody liked or used Canis wolfborn and i as a SW player I'm thankful for this, we need less wolf wolf wolf.

How would you win objectives?

Ethereal
- 2x marker Drone

Cadre Fireblade
- 2x gun Drone

Strike Team
- 10x firewarriors
- missile Turret

Strike Team
- 10x firewarriors
- missile Turret

Stealth Team
- shas'vre w/ target lock, fusion blaster
- bonding knives

Piranha
- fusion blaster
- disruption pods

Sniper Team

Ghostkeel
- ion raker
- velocity tracker

How is this for 750 points? It's for a semi-competitive shop tournament coming up, but I don't care for some of the Tau's more powerful units so it doesn't need to by hyper optimized.

>that Slaaneshi Bolter

Hmmm... Well, alright then. I wanted to use mostly just the larger models in a Melee 'Nidzilla (That's what that sort of list is called, right? Can't remember if that's correct or not.) list. Sort of like a Giant Monster/s vs. The Military sort of theme.

Yeah, melee Nidzilla is in a pretty bad spot. Too slow to really get anywhere, no real way to protect themselves on the way.

The 40K general, where we spend more time talking about the image than the game.

>playing for the mission at 750 pt

I would shoot the shit out of them with 13 TL Plas, 12 of which have rapid fire, and then after I have dealt enough damage I would use the superior movement to boost towards end game goals.

First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Line Breaker = EZ pointz

That's OK. But 60 Thunderhawks are £23k.

We also spend more time discussing it than playing it.

A shame. I'd probably still do it though.

You can give them both ranged and melee weapons, correct?

What's the best way to use Carnifex's with Crushing Claws in a tyrannocyte to deal with heavy armour of with 2x TWDWBLW for general use?

Don't think I remember Thunderhawks.
Only GW stuff, no FW.

>60 Thunderhawks are £23k

You could cast duplicates, or go Chinaman.

Do any of you display your army (or have participated in an Armies on Parade type event)?

I am thinking about making one for when my army isn't in use but I need ideas, A muddy battle field with some rocks is all I got. Also need to figure out how to make sinks for the stand as I think it looks much cleaner than just setting them on terrain.

You can if you run through terrain and keep some venomthropes near. Provided your opponent can't ignore cover you should make it.

That's only if you get to go first. And you can't stop someone who's summoning daemons.

By also bringing mawlocs
You'll probably have to double CAD