WARMACHINE/HORDES GENERAL

Mind actually explaining your opinion?

I guess PP hasn't really gotten any better at that since the MkI days.

The only people who think that are butthurt shits who are pissed that their faction-warping models are being reigned in.

Honestly, the spoilers so far have been almost all shown the game moving towards better balance.

privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?250769-OFFICIAL-Insider-05-11-Jason-Soles-Trollbloods-Overview&p=3510811&viewfull=1#post3510811

>Gunnbjorn's feat now reads, "While in Gunnbjorn’s control range, friendly Faction models gain cover, do not suffer damage from ranged attacks, and cannot become knocked down. Fortification lasts for one round."

eat shit swans

> mauler used to be 9 points
>slayer used to be 6 points

>new Mauler is 7.5 points
>new slayer is 5 points

Really? Cryx salt at its finest grain

>eat shit swans

>the one faction who will just electro keep everything to death

Ok

>POW 10's

Someone is mathier than me, Champs going from DEF 12 to DEF 14. Does this do anything to your boosts?

def 14 is good.
Average mat is...6?
You need an 8 on 2d6 (above average roll) Pretty good
If mat 7 is average you need a 7 and thats an average roll pretty good honestly.
Most infantry are Def 10-13.

I don't think I'm being salty at all. It got a bigger price reduction than the slayer, and is better in every way, just on virtue of being a fury 5 warbeast.

Def 14, arm17, with multiple boxes and the ability to take hits for one another makes them similar to Exemplar Errants with Defenders Ward on them.

+1 speed, mat and an extra initial is nothing to sneeze at (although if the mauler keeps its chain attack it will often have the same number of initials against low def targets).
Plus the combo strike is sometimes relevant

>Garryth
Never been a fan of him. I'll stick with Ossyan, Kaelyssa, & Thyron as my core Warcasters. Hellyna might get added depending on what she does.

So with MkIII coming out, that means all the books before the new core book are obsolete ruleswise right? Just need to pick up the new card pack?

I think they could stand to up their PR game a bit. But they've shown plenty to make a reasonable person feel their overall design is improving in MK3.

General consensus? I'll direct you to
So much crying. Fact is though that PP is making an effort to improve the diversity of the models and toning down the stuff that was eclipsing everything else.

Take Banes. MK1 to MK2 Banes survived just fine and as a result warped the entire meta around themselves. Now Bane Warriors (Thralls) and Bane Knights have been separated from eachother as one has weapon master and the other has vengence + brute charge.

Todays insider is a better example of diversity. Mauler and Mountain King both have the rage animus for bonus str to warbeasts. So you actually have two choices to grab that buff. More importantly the Earthborn is more of a defensive control piece due to his fantastic animus and less potent damage output.

We'll need to see everything as it stands when the smoke clears. Frankly you sound a bit like you got a chip on your shoulder so idk if there's any news that'll be good to you.

The Mauler has more access to speed buffs, has a potential for 7 attacks, and a free headbutt. Plus its a warbeast so its harder to disable.

The slayer just has the worst grid ever. I hope we can get a little more info on the seether, I hope its not MKI uncontrollable rage

Correct. They'll also be updating cards as the game progresses. PP's WarRoom app or the free WHAC app should be updated as needed.

Melee is dead edition

>Warlock gets a feat that totally fucks ranged armies
>Melee is dead, guys!

We need terrain rules....

What do you need?

Eyeless sight no longer sees through forests, there's more terrain on the table, a lot fewer ways to ignore terrain benefits(True Sight no longer ignores concealment, for example).

Melee is dead except for one warlock who no one took in mk2 edition

I have yet to see a single skorne player complain about molik, the complaints have all been directed at titans, cataphracts, aradus sentinels, and marketh. Without those, we're farrow tier.

I hope the defender goes down in price, I want the excuse to take 2

Wait what did they do to my bugs?

I'm taking nothing for granted. We haven't had any confirmation that it'll all work the same. Terrain rules are massively tied into shooting.

They could change the size of the bonuses cover/concealment grant. That'd be huge. We know amphibious changed.

Not sure we've seen a model with camouflage either.

Took away far strike and compensated by giving them range 11 instead of 10.

>Bronzeback, premier melee beatstick, goes from 5 fury to 4
>Mauler, premier melee beatstick, stays at 5 fury

Just delete Skorne already

I still can't believe our new warcaster is called Helena. It's just weird.

Yeah but it's balanced because

And Trolls still have the worse Fury management of the factions we've seen thus far.

Access to future sight makes the bronzeback way better.
Not to mention its actual damage buff is tied to beasthandlers, not to either its own or the warlock's fury pool

>fury
>management
Wait, you mean beasts can't get 4 free focus a turn anymore?

This is the first change to actually annoy the fuck out of me.

It's harder to benefit from terrain with no toe-in.

They now want cannoneers to fill that role. Since people bought a shitton of aradus sentinels due to them being our best ranged option, it must be good business sense to now make people get more titan kits to have long range fire. Most people probably threw away their cannoneer parts already because of how god awful they were in mk2.

Which honestly makes it kinda hilarious with AoE terrain spells. You now get to fit like 1 dude in that forest, good job.

From what we've seen, a lot of those spells might be getting an AOE boost.

Janessa's new hill is AOE4, for example.

hey can I get a link to the trolls insider?

www.google.com

I don't know how it is at the end of mk2 somebody has gotten it into their head that the Cyclops Savage was the great unlocked tech for the Skorne faction... but no. It's junk. Future Sight isn't the edge you think it is (helps if you think of it in terms of "points spent on warbeasts that do not directly contribute to warbeasts on table performing tasks that must be done by warbeasts". Which is to say that the light warbeast that gives you the option of casting it on another warbeast is itself halfway to affording another heavy).

After all these years, it takes some kind of arrogance to think that something worked but people just didn't know to appreciate it.

I didn't

So you're casting future sight on the bronzeback and not rush? Really? Animi don't stack.

>hah! I magnetized everything!
>I even kept the Sentinel Parts!

I've got a good feeling about the Aradus Soldiers. No reason why, but nobody has said they've been nerfed, snacking animi have been put onto other warbeasts properly as a thing, carapace is looking valuable, and the mk2 card is looking pretty good these days.

I think they got a chain attack. If so, it makes them more viable in comparison to the bronzeback than they used to be.

I keep hearing that the Manticore has been buffed, but... I'm not really sure how?

ROF3 was better than ROFD3, right? I'm not living on bizarro Earth, am I?

Yeah, I have one aradus that's magnetized at least. The other is just a sentinel. Might still have the soldier parts for it somewhere though. But in mk2 I couldn't imagine not taking at least one sentinel.

They didn't get a chain attack, they got the chain weapon rule. Their claws (their weakest pow weapons) now ignore shields.

No one spent two focus for the extra two shots. Yea, d3 isn't the best in the world, but you're still, focus free, getting the chance at extra shots with it.

ROF3 was better, but you no longer have to spend focus to take additional ranged attacks up to your ROF.

RoF is initial attacks.
While ROF3 says you can get up to 3 shots an activation, that isn't always feasible cause that costs focus.
With d3 RoF it'll be averaging 2 shots/turn, just cause.

Ah. That's not bad either. Glad I magnetized my aradus.

Previously you had to buy attacks after the first.

Now you get attacks equal to your ROF for free.

Nobody bothered buying all three attacks, inevitably it was 2 with a boost on each or 1 fully boosted.

ROF2 would have been more ideal but we can't have everything we want.

>and an additional 6 hit boxes makes it a lot more likely to get to its intended targets and survive. An extra 6 Boxes, Rof 3, and an extra 2" of range would make the Mammoth real, real scary

I am just *really* hoping the Mammoth doesn't go to rof d3. It's one thing on a heavy, on a garg it's dumb.

Yeah I'm not really interested in dropping 40 points into a model to have its effectiveness be random every turn. It's already hurt enough by the far strike nerf.

I thought it was cheap at ten points.

Then 10 point Crusaders became a thing.

>Mk2: 3 Slayers cost the same as 2 Maulers.
>Mk3: 3 Slayers cost the same as 2 Maulers.

You're retarded.

>Implying the Mauler was in the same league as the Bronzeback as a melee beatstick

Dude, read and enjoy 's salt. The reason he's pissy about the pyre troll and others losing other-target on their animus is because by the end of Mk2, no one took Maulers in competitive lists.

I sorted through my mini storage and found the following. How fucked am I for MK3?

Herxis, Morghoul 1 and 2, Mordikar

Molik, Cannooner, savage, shaman, both Krea.

3 Ferox, 6 bog trogs 6 pain givers 8 venators

1 extoller and 1 agonizer.

I want to put together a small Hordes force so when I'm playing new players who are only just learning the fury system can be more comfortable playing against a fury based army.

Slayer was overcosted in Mk2 though.

I'm happy for the troll players, really. They get something better than Purification, Stumbling Drunk will be beastly on Rok, and the EBDT immunities and communion seem great for anti-assassionations.

That might be going out the window. They did say that Animii are becoming spells to simplify things.

They specifically said animi do not stack.

I'm hyped about Titan Sentries in Mk3. With agonizers turning into FA:2 mini-Thagroshes (-2 str aura), and them going up in mat, they... could be pretty good.

So was the mauler.

Well, cost 4. Aka "You'd better have meant to have done that because I'm coming to get you."

Half the problem with mk2 Purification design spam is that casting it didn't expose anyone to anything.

Agonizers are FA:U

Yep.

>Got Mammoth on miniaturemarket when it was on clearance for 50% off
>Have a bunch of Skorne stuff in varying states of assembly
>Hoping Skorne gets fun to play because damnit, the Mammoth is a fucking awesome model and I want to field it

Why are people crying about Dygmies being nerfed? The only was fucking retarded before.

>Opponent couldn't kill them in their turn
>POW14 guns
>Can pop forwards in their turn and still get an aim bonus
>10 OF THESE FUCKERS FOR JUST 6 POINTS

Like my god just shut up.

Holy fuck, I misread that.

With lower THR across the board, are mutiple Agonizers just going to fucking SHUT DOWN beast-heavy lists?

Wow.

I got my mammoth the same way. I ran him with ehexeris a few times and had fun with it. It really needed far strike to get any use out of it.

So, do we know what all the new warcasters are called?

Do we know anything about their playstyles, other than that they're designed to be jack/beast heavy?

The mauler only has 1 more speed than the bronzeback. You arent using rage on him if you are using rush.

I think this in particular makes the bronzeback a better beater. Not losing damage output when needing rush is pretty great.

They're going to do a worse job of it than they could before, since in Mk2 you could lower threshold by 2 and have a 9" bubble, not to mention cost WAY less points.

Yeah, but there's also way more killable now. 3 pow 10s will drop them at arm 13. And we haven't actually seen much example of lower threshold so far, some guys that had 10 thr got dropped down to 9 and that's about it. It's also speed 5 and needs to get awful close to use its animus. The +1 fury is a pulse, so he can't cast it and then run like he can with the -2 str aura. Can't charge friendlies to speed him up either.

To add to this, I feel as though the Agonizer is going to serve a much better purpose as an assassination tool. Lowering threshold is cool and all, but putting fury on beasts can straight up shut off transfers. Just walk 3 Agonizers forward, make them all scream to fill up enemy beasts, and assassinate.

Anyone feeling cautiously optimistic about the archangel?
I love the model, and the little bit they let out has me feeling it might actually be decent this time around.

Well, in fairness you can just assume your Mauler is a SPD 7, Fury 3 Raged Beast if you have an Axer.

Overall, Troll Insider was just...boring. Nothing exciting, kind of like all the Mk 3 spoilers so far.

They were retarded before, but got the biggest nerf I've seen so far.

>Don't get to tunnel after showing up the first time
>Less movement each turn
>Less than half the area to place in when emerging
>Can't fire their POW 14 guns in melee if engaged when emerging, and have to swing at PS 8

And they got a cost increase at full unit size. They were absurd before and anyone expecting them to not take it in the pants in the edition change was delusional, but they took it worse than Bane Knights.

Ah, okay.

Lowering THR didn't matter if you cleaned up all your fury each turn, like anyone who isn't terrible who saw an agonizer across the board.

Now they straight-up add fury, which is MUCH harder to mitigate.

Yeah fury management being so easy made the Agonizer a questionable model to field, but now it seems WAY more solid. That animus too holy shit that's some good kush right there.

Bane Knights were barely touched, they're just worse than before if they're not charging.

Those little guys got it worse than cataphracts.

Much harder to mitigate, sure. Also VASTLY harder to pull off.

It's now a 6 inch range. And you have to get that 6 inches by walking it at speed 5, because the old -2 THR one you could cry and then run to get stuff in range, with this one you cry after you've done moving.

And I'm not sold on the animus either, on a speed 5 lesser. It rocks faces on the angelius because of how mobile it is.

Legion also has casters who can make use of Repulsion much better than we do.

What does Skorne have? Makeda3 and Xerxis2?

Doesnt molik karn still have fate walker?
And the archidon might still have sprint.
Skorne casters shouldnt have too much trouble repulsing something and then getting out

Tbh, it actually sounds really good. My gf bought it as one of her first minis and she seems pumped af.

>And the archidon might still have sprint.

As a Circle player I'm scared Lightning Strike is going self-only.

You know it might pick up Far Strike as it's animus, right?

We've seen a lot of ranged beasts do so.

If anything I thought lightning strike would go to the argus

Tbqh, I expect the Feral to get it instead of the Stalker, which would solve a lot of Circle beast problems. I'll just be bummed if it goes self-only.

Far Strike alone seems kinda boring for a gargantuan, and that would mean 3 beasts in faction with it. Counterblast sucks too though. The mammoth's thing was that it could lob incredibly inaccurate shots at a distance the early turns to disrupt infantry, and then go in HAM with assault and 3 initials once up close. Range 10 guns meant it's only shooting the turn before it charges, if even then. But at the same time it's not a long ranged support piece that should hang back with far strike the whole time because it's rat 3. It only ever direct hit models that were knocked down or that were other gargossals.

It should just get range 12 on its guns and a good animus. But the mammoth isn't a ranged beast, most other gargs have 2 melee initials and it has 3. It's a melee beast that also throws 3 pow 8 blasts downrange when it's convenient to do so.