/btg/ - Battletech General

All right... gimme Hamm on five, hold the Mayo.

Could do with a few suggestions.
I'm working on giving my FWL urban defender force some mechs. I'm gonna assign my generic urban camo Hunchbacks to them, but am thinking of adding a Stalker, Urbie and Cicada to the mix (the warhansa ones from the last thread).

My problem though is simple. Given my Hunchbacks are Ernie and Burt and have their jumper colours as patches on the armour, what are suitable Muppet names for a the other three?
And is Oscar too obvious for the urbie? Would his colours be green over dirty metal?

...

Rev up dem wallets, brothers! New release soon

>Stalker
Sweetums. Red nose, brown camo, shark-mouth.

>Urbie
By all means, Oscar. I agree with the colors.

>Cicada
Guy Smiley. Big grin on the front, yellow body, grey pinstripes on the rest.

And, of course, everyone knows that Kermit is an Uziel.

You can really see the high quality of canopian education shining through

Veeky Forums here; if I wnted to get into the lore, what books should I start with?

The Classic Battletech Universe book collects the most important background stuff. After that, there are the various old House books, the Star League book plus the Periphery (2nd edition for preference). This gets you up to 302...8? Then you have the newer Handbooks on various houses and the Periphery, which gets you into the late 3060s. For the Clan stuff, there The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky and Invading Clans. The various field manuals contain a lot of stuff about the various militaries, mercenaries and Clan toumans (ie. their armies).

>Periphery (2nd edition for preference)
Just a small correction, but periphery 2e is 3058. 1e is the 3025 one.

Hmm, seems a bit overt, am working on a more subdued colour scheme than full mech stuff.

Shit, you're right. I knew the 1st ed Periphery was the 3025 one, but I deliberately disregarded it since it's one of those books that has retcon issues. But I did peg the 2nd ed as around the same timeframe as the 20 Year Update and the Big MAC books (both are 3049 IIRC).

>since it's one of those books that has retcon issues.
Those are really overblown; it really just amounts to two or three factories and some population numbers, plus a couple of tiny other things.
Honestly, unless you're arguing with medron pryde, the retcons don't really matter at all

>unless you're arguing with medron pryde, the retcons don't really matter at all
They don't matter even IF you're arguing with him, seeing as he just pretends they never happened

Yeah, but since I'm not completely clear on what was retconned and what was not (the Taurian Hatchetmen and Rommels were one, IIRC) I didn't recommend it. I do shamelessly use it for 3025ish Periphery stuff, though, and the art is absolutely great.

so will we see any revival of the Steiner and Davion Houses in the post 3145 time?

>(the Taurian Hatchetmen and Rommels were one, IIRC)
Yeah, that was about it, aside from a bunch of planets having their populations increased, and that wasn't technically even a retcon
I mean, 2e has some minor issues with those retcons (mostly the rommels thing) but they really don't matter if you're trying to learn the lore
Yeah, you've got a point

Heyall, C3 network guy from last night again, making sure I understand it.

In the C3 network pictured here, the green circle is a unit with two C3 masters. The master colored in black controls the red and blue masters, which each control three C3 slaves.

In this network, unit A can share target data with unit B, correct?

No, because they're on different networks.

So, what exactly is the point of connecting C3 networks together if they're just going to behave like two separate C3 networks anyway?

Yes. Physically being mounted on the same unit does not cause a connection, you need to have the C3 units linked in the network. So what you have there (one master linked to two sub-masters, and two sub-masters linked to 3 slaves) works. You can trace a complete connection between A and B via the network. (A -> sub A -> Master -> sub B -> B)

Dood wtf? Did you not read about his third master in there to do the linking?

Yes, this is legal and works with A able to share with B

Incidentally, you could have a third mech group with a slave consisting of a single mech tied into the master of masters that could also interface with groups A and B.

Just out of curiosity, what planets had their populations raised? And was it as hilarious a hike as in pic related?

You're wrong. See page 132 of Total Warfare.

Yes.
If you gave group B a new master unit, you could add a third lance to the setup

>Incidentally, you could have a third mech group with a slave consisting of a single mech tied into the master of masters that could also interface with groups A and B.
Nope. A C3 Master can be set to one of two modes: Master of Masters, or Master of Slaves.
TW p.132:
>A C3 Master can only control one to three C3 Slaves or one to three C3 Masters.
>While a C3 Master controls another C3 Master, it cannot control a C3 Slave.
It could link in another mech with a C3M and use that as a really heavy Slave with TAG, but it can't link a C3S.

Alright, cool. Trying out a mixed heavy/assault list with a squadron of Sprint C3 choppers to spot for them.

I've only got 2500 BV to spend, so I settled on a squadron of Cavalry attack helicopters to back up the Sprints.

>Just out of curiosity, what planets had their populations raised? And was it as hilarious a hike as in pic related?
IIRC, it was mostly a couple worlds in the Circinus Federation and some of the outlying taurian worlds. I'm on the bus on my way to work, so I don't have my books with me or I might be able to give you some more exact answers.
Nothing QUITE that bad that I can remember
Never did understand CGL's boner for making populations so goddamn huge, though

You HAVE to have a 3rd C3 Master to connect multiple networks. This was pointed out in a post last night that IIRC you didn't respond to.

You CAN NOT connect 2 lance-sized C3 nets with only 2 C3 Master units. C3 Masters require a C3 Master to coordinate *them*. As an example, in configuration 2 in the diagram, the left "M" coordinates the Yellow Lance (3 slaves => 1 Master), while the right-hand "M" coordinates the "M"s from Blue and Red Lance.

If you wanted an 8-unit (2 lance) network, it HAS to work like this

........................Master**..................
....................../...........\..................
...Lance 1 Master..........Lance 2 Master
.......|.......|........|.............|.........|.........|
...C3S...C3S...C3S......C3S...C3S....C3S

**THIS MASTERS *MUST* BE LOCATED ON THE MECH CONTAINING THE LANCE 1 OR LANCE 2 MASTER C3 SYSTEM

Oh, goddammit. You actually do have 2 Masters on the one unit; I saw only the one. So exactly what I just diagrammed. Never bloody mind.

I think it's FASA's boner, actually. Even back in the old house books we were talking about planets with populations in the billions that required constant food imports from agri worlds when the number of working jumpships and dropships was as low as it was. But that's FASAnomics and it's one of the things I've filed under "fuck it, disregard numbers, acquire giant robots".

Eh, configuration 1, doesn't? ()

And if I had the BV I could attach a third C3 master to the Master of Masters and have three more C3 slaves under it?

>I think it's FASA's boner, actually.
FASA was more wildly inconsistent, with worlds having a billion or 10k people seemingly at random. CGL is consistent with it's crazy big numbers
>But that's FASAnomics and it's one of the things I've filed under "fuck it, disregard numbers, acquire giant robots".
Yup, same here

Reading through MW rpg 1e, what sweet artwork!

Revival for what?

They're both still around.

>That feel when Time of War decided to use a complete different system from Classic Battletech regarding dice that is similar enough to confuse players but different enough to require you to either convert everything to it's system to use the cool pilot shit or to not use it at all

Time of War isn't even a shitty game but it fails at providing what one would normally want from a Battletech rpg and I'm crossing my fingers super hard that the Battletech CRPG makes the tabletop rpg have a resurgence like it did with Shadowrun 5e.

well the Lyrans are getting their shit pushed in so hard its rather insane and the FedSuns are troubled with Leadership and the honorbu Draconis and honorbu Capellans

>Still around
Yeah, but both have had their shit pushed in so far they're tasting last Tuesday's breakfast (as my father used to say).

>honorbu Capellans

I thought the Federated Suns had that part coming for years of (mostly) undue aggression?

>Stalker and Cicada
Snuffleupagus and Big Bird?

>undue.
Look, they're all three (five, really, but Steiner and the FWL remnants aren't really involved with this) gleeful warmongers and the Fedsuns was just finally the one that dropped the soap.

that was a joke

Yes, but isn't it Davion aggression that created the Capellan problem they're currently facing today?

Federated Suns aggression was pointed out as one of the things that lead to the founding of the Confederation if I recall correctly.

Don't forget about the Raven Alliance and whatever it is they're doing on the Suns border.

Are these source books or narrative fictions, because I'm looking for the latter.

Configuration 1 has 4 Masters.

To connect two lances fully you need 3 Masters. If you only have 2 Masters then the unit with two Masters use targeting information from any of the Slaves linked to it but cannot share information between the two networks.

You need to have a look at the diagrams here , they explain things succinctly.

At the moment what you're doing is like Configuration 4, except with half as many Masters. If you want to start networking full Companies your only options are 1 and 2.

Alternatively you

>Are these source books or narrative fictions,
All sourcebooks.

>Are these source books or narrative fictions, because I'm looking for the latter.
Most of the source books are written as in-universe historical documents and academic surveys. They have a bunch of short stories interspersed with the academic material. Some entire books are actually written as intelligence files with collated news reports, personal statements, TV transcripts, and first-person intel reports. The Jihad books, in particular (Interstellar Players, and the Jihad Hot Spots series) use this style, and are an immensely entertaining (if occasionally frustrating) read.
Another good one to get is "Sharapnel: Fragments From the Inner Sphere", a collection of short stories set over the course of a couple of decades.

Most of the Scenario books from the first couple editions also have narrative fiction as an inherent part of the setup (see image for an example). They got away from that a bit in 4e (~3055-3067), and came back for the Jihad.

So, if you actually like reading historical academic work like I do, the Sourcebooks are an absolute delight. If not, they're still worth a download just to read the sidebar fiction and the odd short story tucked inside. The novels are written by mid-tier genre-fiction hacks for the most part, and some are absolutely dreadful, but you may enjoy 'em. Just don't write off the other parts of t he game - FASA and CGL both tried to make use of narration way more than most game companies.

I think we're using the word 'unit' differently.

I'd used it to describe an individual machine. I think you're using it to describe a lance of four machines.

I've reached the conclusion that when we were locally mucking about with C3 a bit of cheating was perpetrated by all involved. Given that it's all in the past and I think all were guilty it's a bit of a wash.

> Federated Suns

Well this isn't the first time they've had the Dragon bearing down on them and it probably won't be the last.

They've proven they can beat back the Kurita tide before (though unlike in the past, they don't have numbers on their side)

Plus at the rate things are going, it looks like the Combine and Confederation have their own sets of worries to look forward to.

> Lyran Commonwealth

Though that situation does look dire, I expect the Lyrans can rebuild from it.

Industry is their big thing after all.

Not to mention I believe the lore implied their Clan aggressors are facing a multitude of problems or about to.

Namely that they seem to be taking on a lot of conscript units for the battles ahead, many of which are inferior in quality to their Lyran counterparts or aren't sold on the idea of the Clans.

still, at the moment, the Dracs and Caps are reveling in "fortune" in comparison. probably onyl the FWL has not had their own Good Feel arc yet

>The novels are written by mid-tier genre-fiction hacks for the most part, and some are absolutely dreadful, but you may enjoy 'em.
This can't be stressed enough. If you're used to Veeky Forums-tier writing, then the BT novels are largely going to be trash, though the only ones I've read are some of the early Dark Age ones, so I really have no authority to critique seriously.

To the other anons' lists I've got to add the Interstellar Players series. There's no game value to them, just pure storytelling, and the series is all in-character speculation, rumor and conspiracy theory, almost none of which turns out to be completely true, but some of which serves to foreshadow events further down the timeline with little grains of truth.

True.

But the Draconis one seems kind of odd to me.

I'm surprised they even have the ability to launch an offensive after the recent Civil War they had.

But then again they are fighting a Federated Suns whose military was said to be the model of unfit (the Era report says something along those lines).

Also, the Capellan "Good Feel" has been going on for nearly seven decades since the start of Sun Tzu's chancellorship hasn't it?

They've been steadily improving since that time.

>probably onyl the FWL has not had their own Good Feel arc yet

I thought part of theirs was the Clan Invasion?

I keep hearing they profited heavily from it, becoming quite wealthy.

FWL was dead and then got better. Seems pretty good to me. What would be better is if we got to use designs that sported ERLL and LGRs but I will take the Clan Protectorate and the inevitable tech that will come from there.

Other than being largely forgotten, the FWL did make massive amounts of dosh because they were kinda like the USA during the world war periods.

>C3 systems
Are these the most complicated and stupid systems in battletech? C3 was a mistake.

You know what I'd like to see? A Clantech LGR. 10-11t, absolutely ridiculous range (~30-32), still only does 8-10 damage and 1 heat, same amount of ammo per ton. Caps still blow for 15, of course.
Fluff it off as Clanners getting a taste for the engagement profile (it lets you be first to the fight, after all) and pressing the local industry for an upgrade.

well, despite making a large amount of dosh, they aren't doing "anything" really despite fighting their own disputes

the FWL was always a weird thing to me.

while the FedSuns were busy being space police, the Dracks being "Muh honour", the Lyrans "muh shekels" and the Caps "muh legacy", the FWL always struck me as out of place

The only real problem is that they're a Drac item.

Dracs, the single combat duelling IS faction.

Not the EW Cappies, or the co-operative FWL, or the best tech always FedCom. That bit makes no goddamn sense.

Conveniently though the Feddies invent BC3, so crisis averted.

Hush, Duke Ricol. You had your fun.

>Also, the Capellan "Good Feel" has been going on for nearly seven decades since the start of Sun Tzu's chancellorship hasn't it?
>They've been steadily improving since that time.
In universe? Hardly, they got their ass kicked by the republic in the early 3080s and again in the capellan crusades, and were only winning against the FS in 3145 because the FS pulled everything of value to fight the Dracs (and they still had only half the gains the dracs did, when the dracs were fighting actually good units). Plus TRO 3150 mentions them having been shoved off New Syritis with the caps really hurt. They've been doing average.

Out of universe, there's somewhat valid complaints about the Cap losses in this period not being emphasized enough, though a decent portion of the complaints are from:
a) not paying attention
b) being angry about Coleman and assuming the "Caps never lose" has and always will continue (it hasn't)

Alright, I've been spending my evening ruining perfectly good models with paint, and figured I'd ask instead of rely upon my painkiller-fuelled judgement alone:

Cockpit windows, still red? Or should I go blue and use red as a contrasting colour on detailing rather than just yellow/yellow-black for that 'pop' detailing?

C3i is fantastic though

At first I wanted to go REEEE GET OUT CLANNERS but now I want to pair that with ELRMS. Keep it at 8 damage because even for clantech 10 damage at a 30 hex range is ludicrous. I can honestly see it as something the Space Sharks would make just to sell truckloads to the FWL.

That's what happens when no one remembers the FWL exists with the most fuck-off huge fleet of warships. And when people do remember the FWL, its to make sure that fleet second only to the Star League gets borrowed by the Blakists and thrown into a black hole or whatever.

But that's all in the past. I just want hilarious shit like the pet Clans being the voices of reason in the nuFWL parliament.

>they got their ass kicked by the republic in the early 3080s and again in the capellan crusades

But they've been steadily improving in capabilities since the battles began with the Republic if I recall.

> and were only winning against the FS in 3145 because the FS pulled everything of value to fight the Dracs

The Era Report implied they were also winning because they were actually militarily prepared, perhaps the most prepared of the Inner Sphere powers aside from the Clans.

> been shoved off New Syritis

But it said nothing of the Capellan March or places like Tikonov that were seized from the Federated Suns when the Capellans invaded.

They could very well still be in possession of a good chunk of the March.

Not to be resurrecting the argument, but config 1 out of the diagram seems like it'd be the most common setup, considering it's a lot easier to find a single master mech. How many canon double-master designs exist? And is there any canon unit packing more than two masters?

lol fag

>major amounts of the MSC under Wolf control
>Andurien out of the League
>Marian actually attacking, not just raiding
>still gotta integrate the Regulans back in
>no heir to the C-G after Jessica died
>space jews are up to something

haha no the League is nowhere near going well

I remember one of the drac light or medium omni had a 2 C3M only config

And there's a decent number of double C3M assaults.

Well some might argue the fact that the League survived at all (even if in remnants) during the events of the Jihad is it's own triumph to a certain degree.

Also, they're doing somewhat better than many of their neighbors at the current time.

>Marian actually attacking, not just raiding

Does that even stand a chance of getting anywhere in the long run?

The Periphery's track record of success against Great Houses tends to be poor from what I've seen.

> Andurien out of the League

Is that even a loss given how problematic they've been in the Free Worlds?

>no heir to the C-G after Jessica died

Isn't her Daughter her successor?

>space jews are up to something

I thought they were just trying to maximize their revenues and profits by having their hands in as many cookie jars as possible?

It seems they certainly wouldn't benefit from the league's collapse given the inroads they've made in it.

>Is that even a loss given how problematic they've been in the Free Worlds?
Yes, because porchboy Mcrapist it gonna turn them around and throw them at the league

This is all a great setup if the writers aren't retarded. So much conflict can lead to a ton of interesting things. FWL got its biggest strength asspulled away from them and then shattered the whole nation. Now they are back and rebuilding. THINK OF ALL THE DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM THEY CAN BRING TO EVERYONE

>happy merchants
>ever not up to something
user, plz.

>Does that even stand a chance of getting anywhere in the long run?
>The Periphery's track record of success against Great Houses tends to be poor from what I've seen.
The crucial difference is, the Marian plotline is being written by someone who LIKES the marians and not just as a means to advance a great house plot point. This hasn't happened before, so there's no telling how it'll go

>Isn't her Daughter her successor?
Yes, but -she- doesn't have an heir. One lucky angry Regulan, we get a succession fight and it's the breakup all over again.

>porchboy Mcrapist

I'm not sure who that's referencing.

Recommended order for getting into the novels is Gray Death trilogy, Warrior trilogy, Wolves on the Border, Heir to the Dragon, then the Blood of Kerensky trilogy. If you don't like one author, try the next one in line.

>To connect two lances fully you need 3 Masters.
Sure, but for the sake of clarity: instead of doubling masters up on a single 'Mech, you could pare diagram 1 down to a two-lance network with 3 masters and 5 slaves.

>If you want to start networking full Companies your only options are 1 and 2.
Technically, you should also be able to run a full company off of two double-master 'Mechs too. It's just harder to diagram clearly.

I think they were trying to add a new dimension to the game. But yeah, they probably should've done something other than muck around with gunnery modifiers.

Feds are scientist caste, dracs are warrior caste, lyrans are technician caste, caps are labor caste, leaguers are merchant caste.

And the Feddies got TSM, which kind of encourages a hot-headed kamikaze charge. So both Clan fronts got a powerful new technology that was disruptive to their previous tactical doctrine.

How bad is this 55 tonner? I assume the cost and weight-saving materials kill it and you can build a better robot for less c-bills, but I made an attempt.
I guess you could easily drop TSM from the design to save 2 mil and make it a slightly more affordable robot at 11 million a unit since with 2LPL and 55 tons it's not exactly a close range brawler and at 6/9 it probably doesn't need the extra speed that TSM grants it to relocate.
Basically tell me what I did right (if anything) and what I did wrong so I can build better custom robots.

Literal crapsack world?

Daoshen Liao, I'm pretty sure

>and you can build a better robot for less c-bills,
You can build a nightstar for less C-bills, but C-bills are dumb, so whatever

>with 2LPL and 55 tons it's not exactly a close range brawler and at 6/9 it probably doesn't need the extra speed that TSM grants it to relocate.
It's nothing but a close range brawler with that armament? It can't reach past 10 hexes. And given that, it certainly could use the extra MP from TSM, problem is the only way it can get and maintain 9 heat means walking, which defeats that entirely. Dropping something like maybe a half ton of armor or a heat sink for a small laser or two would let it tune the TSM better.

But if you do think 6/9 is fast enough for it, then maybe you should consider dropping to 5/8, so it can hit 6/9 via the TSM. Since you're worried about C-bills costs, engines are pricey, making that smaller will help.

Blue cockpit would look nice with the grey camo, as would a brown wash/glaze over the whole model to bring your panel lines back out of the camo. Like them so far though!

I'm gonna agree that C3i is fantastic, but how do y'all use it in a post-Blakist era? Two C3 mechs per Lance in a company? Three scouts in the scout Lance have it and three support mechs in the support Lance? All the support Lance is C3'd and only half the scout has it? There are options and I'm not sure which ones are good.

What's the sweetspot of excess heat gen for TSM? I don't think I've ever used it before and decided to put it on since the robot had 6 slots with the 2LPL2MPL armament and going fast with kicky feet sounded appealing to me.
I've dropped the hands and a heatsink for two ER Smalls so it runs significantly hotter and is capable of activating TSM while standing still (10 heat excess) since I wasn't planning on punching with it anyways (main armament is arm-mounted)

>I'm gonna agree that C3i is fantastic, but how do y'all use it in a post-Blakist era?

Take a leaf out of Capellan Augmented Lances which have a 4/2 split for 'Mechs and Vees one way or the other and just network them.

Or use normal Lances and accept you're missing two potential nodes and paying an extra two tons to get a C3 network that you don't need to worry about losing the Master on.

It's basically an Anvil+

The only way I can see the TSM being too useful is if you turn off some sinks for powerful kicks and punches once you get stuck in, or if you take an engine hit and do a running alpha, but that would be finicky.

Everybody else already covered the design part.

>dat digicam
unf

Your goal is to sit at exactly 9 heat over, to get the +1 MP

I'm actually increasingly a fan of mechs that don't really care about the MP and that just use it to kick the shit out of people

Mostly augmented lances. For a company the options are pretty varied. You can have 2 networks and everyone is covered but the left and right hands don't really talk to each other. Have a diffused setup where 2 per lance benefit or 1 full lance and have 1 "scout" in the others.

It really depends on what you're trying to do. I like having non-c3i mechs be self sufficient generalist(usually with TAG), LRM boats loaded with SG-LRMs or very mobile pulse boats on guard/backstab duty.

Any good user have downloaded it to share with us?

>I'm gonna agree that C3i is fantastic, but how do y'all use it in a post-Blakist era?
Capellan augmented lances?
FWL light vee formations?
Taurian tank lances? (though they wouldn't have any particular reason to be using C3i, their unit size does fit)
Maybe someone could be producing a modified C3i scaled down to 4 units? That is something that makes sense, but nobody's canonically done

One trick you can also do with Config 1 is put all the Masters into the Command (alternatively, Fire Support) lance in the rear.

Wasn't C3 a product of the joint FC/DC development? But, for reasons (XIN SHENG) unknown, the AFFC was decades late in deploying C3 and TSM in production quantities (CC is actually credited with the invention of modern TSM in some books, because they went into full production first).