Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Lothar is whatching, medivh is slamming khadgar around asking what hes doing there.

Did anyone else catch his line "planning what you'll do witb the place when its yours?" Kind of a nice allusion to how it eventually is his.

I saw as much.
but isn't karazhan abandoned?

Nope. Until the first war it was used by medivh. His mother before that. Before medivh got it. yeah it was empty for a bit, but before and during the first war thats where medivh talked with guldan, demons, boned garona, etc.

I was talking about post wc1

Oooh. Yeah after the first war its abandoned. Buuut we go in, assault the ghosts and the eredar malchezar and basically retake it. The kirin tor watvhed over it and in the legion announcement video khadgar is hanging out there. I took that as its his place now, seeing as he's the guardian, head of the kirin tor, etc. The center of all magical ley lines realistically is all his, unless Aegwyn wants it back.

Its kinda interesting that the kirin tor abandoned the center of all the ley lines after TFT

le Sylvanas face

>unless Aegwyn wants it back.
Did she even survive Theramore?

IIRC she dies giving her power to medan

I thought Blizz is pretending medan never existed.

Do you remember when Garrosh was good?

>Garrosh Hellscream says: Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?

Is Blizzard's writing staff 25 guys locked in 25 separate rooms not allowed to speak to each other?

Garrosh's character development from Wrath to early MoP was probably the best thing Blizzard has written since the RTS games ended. He was one of the few NPCs that made me feel honored to serve them

this was two years before The Character Assassination of Garrosh Hellscream By The Coward David Kosak

Never played horde leveling post cata. I always thought garrosh was butthurt about murdering innovent alliance and alliancr children when unneccsary. Seems however he was actually pissed about dem horde families. Makes more sense why he was so angry.

No need to waste precious orc lives, let alone ones not even involved in a battle, but bombing innocents in theramore was no moral quandry for him. While i get it from a military stabdpoint, theramore was an access point for the alliance and used for troop movements, were still expected to forget all the horde players that went along aith it and the divine bell without worry. They din do nuffin. Orc lives matter.

>Seems however he was actually pissed about dem horde families. Makes more sense why he was so angry.
the place the got mana bombed was a druid school full of night elf and tauren children. Krom'gar blew it up because the druids were standing against him logging

Garrosh was never good.
Piss off horde baby.

So why are people mad about garrosh and his "transformation?" He was a brave dick in wrath, cata made him and honorbound asshole out to grab all the land he could, and mop made his ego grow for expansion and he got tired of his advisors being pussies. 3 years of him trying to grow and lead and hes got a group of people that are dumb or wont help. I get where his villainy came from.

And yeah, blowing up druids who could cause one race to leave the horde, and another to bring the alliance right to them would rightfully piss off any leader trying to expand without allout war.

>So why are people mad about garrosh and his "transformation?"
because in MoP his goals stopped being worth the level of dickishness need to achieve them.

bullying the Alliance to be the first to kill the Lich King is pretty justified
starting a fairly fought war to shore up the safety of his nation after diplomacy failed was fine
consuming the heart of an Old God because "muh orc supremacy" is fucking stupid

that time of the month again Jaina?

>Jaina's face when she realized her father was 100% right all along

>khadgar is [...] the guardian
Wait, what happened to Medan?

Little question, it's been ages since I last played:
Do we have any explanation on where the Curse of the worgen ended up affecting Gilneans?
I remember vaguely something about an NE druid controlling his wrath and then NE helping the worgen to control their transformation but I don't remember any explantion about when it all started to affect humans.

This is why Cataclysm is beyond saving

Because the moment Daelin Proudmoore becomes right is the moment your lore becomes unsalvageable

Daelin's mistake was not listening to what Jaina had to say. Otherwise his actions were understandable. The horde had always been their enemies, and he wasn't present to see their good side during the reign of chaos.

Pretty much yes. A lot of problems with Garrosh's characterization, and a lot of other inconsistencies in the lore, come from different writers not agreeing on something and not bothering to talk to each other to reach a consensus. Hence why in the same expansion Garrasoh is a hotheaded but generally honorable guy who won't stand harming of innocents, and actually competent military leader, and an idiot who divers his forces to fight the Alliance while literally in the middle of fighting a common enemy.

Then when people didn't like his character, rather than trying to develop him into something more consistent and likeable, they wen't "Fuck it! You all hate him? Fine, he's Orc Hitler now, and nuke Threamore!".

>reign of chaos
Fuck that brings me back.
Although Rexxar's campaign was something as well.

Exactly

He chose to not listen not only to his daughter, who he has to know is a very smart person, but also to the one person who single-handedly saved thousands of people just by taking them to Kalimdor, but also the entire world.

His actions are only understandabe if you assume he's not listening to Jaina, but he should obviously listen to Jaina

This, he wasted an entire army in a war that never needed to be fought. Had he listened to his daughter the Alliance could have just fortified Theramore and maintained complete naval dominance of eastern Kalimdor.

Instead he got his entire group slaughtered cause "omg Orcs"

He probably viewed Jaina as still being his young and naive daughter. She still doesn't know what the world and the orcs are really like, you know? Obviously he was wrong, but I think it makes sense for him.

This is important. Daelin thought his daughter was legitimately being duped by the orcs and that there's not an honest muscle in their body.

...

So, the movie'a storyline is a mix of the original one and Warlords of Draenor's? Are they planning a single movie or a trilogy or something else retarded?

And he was wrong on both counts.

Daelin was sort of right - Orcs are a savage, warlike culture that is prone to aggression.
Still, Jaina saw that that's not all they are and her struggles alongside Thrall showed him that they can be more. And while Thrall was in charge, it worked.

It was a pretty good tragic story.

Original, retconned and expanded where they saw it necessary.

MoP and WoD showed that, while they can change, orcs are savage, warlike thugs that don't need a reason to murder innocents. All Mannoroth's blood did was make them stronger.

>don't need a reason to murder innocents.
This is false. The reason doesn't need to be a valid one for our civilized sensibilities (i.e. they are standing on earth we want, and humans IRL do or used to do that too.)
>All Mannoroth's blood did was make them stronger.
That conclusion can't be reliably drawn from existing evidence. Whenever they did drink, they became more violent. You could say it's merely emboldening effect of being stronger, but given general corrupting tendence of anything demonic there's no reason to assume it doesn't also make them more evil.

And that's why you don't pay attention to anything past WotLK

Because Cata onwards was dedicated to proving everything Warcraft 3 tried to tell us about orcs wrong. Which is retarded, because it sends Warcraft back to being black and white, when it only ever became interesting due to the introduction of grey

saved

>This is false. The reason doesn't need to be a valid one for our civilized sensibilities (i.e. they are standing on earth we want, and humans IRL do or used to do that too.)
IRL humans used a shit load of reasons to wage war. They never said bullshit like
>gibs me dat
and genocided entire populations like the orcs did.

>>That conclusion can't be reliably drawn from existing evidence. Whenever they did drink, they became more violent. You could say it's merely emboldening effect of being stronger, but given general corrupting tendence of anything demonic there's no reason to assume it doesn't also make them more evil.

Eredar that became fel empowered also got a boost to their magical abilities because they used the fel source of energy. Argus is grander than it has ever been, only it is full of fel magic instead of arcane.
If anything fel just makes your defining trait stronger. Eredar demons aren't cruel just because.
They are cruel because it lets them boost their power.

I kinda liked the concept of the Sargerai. Draenei who were so pissed off at velen that they joined the legion wholesale.

I have a rather weird question. What was Nerubian agriculture like?

shrooms probably.
They probably farmed animals and stuff for meat and hides.

What I want to know is what they did for recreation. Is there spider soccer? The leg work must be crazy.

What do drow do recreation?
I am guessing that, but with bigger pauldrons.

Blizzard seems to have shuffled him under a rug.

So dwarf fortress style?

Apparently, they have tamed Jormungars to dig tunnels.

What might also be interesting if they used their webs to more or less farm.

Make tunnels with jormungar, then web it up in some places, come back in a few days. Almost like finishing.

Lichens and mushrooms most likely.

Actually, what's even odder to me is how Ner'Zhul built up the Scourge in Northrend. Was it all Vrykul to start? Tuskarr? I always wanted to run a "Bronze Dragonflight is counterattacking the Inifinite Flight" campaign, set within less "I KNOW THAT GUY!" areas, so the initial Scourging of Icecrown was an interesting diversion.

Wrath should have added the Nerubians for the Alliance and the Silithids for the Horde.

-The fact that Muradin tried to go treasure hunting there implies that other people have before, so there was probably a presence of dead pirates, treasure-seekers, and explorers.

-Arthas' military forces.

-Illidan's military forces.

-Native trolls, Nerubians, Vrykrul, Tuskarr, and fauna.

-Lore from SM states that the Scarlet Crusade tried to invade at least once, so there were corpses from that, too.

So a hodgepodge of sources, really.

No, I mean way earlier than that. When Ner'Zhul first got there when the Legion dropped him off. Though in looking it up, apparently the first ones were Trolls and Yeti, so now all I can see are Rastamen fighting Spidermen.

>IRL humans used a shit load of reasons to wage war. They never said bullshit like
>>gibs me dat
>and genocided entire populations like the orcs did.
Isn't that pretty much the standard reason for humans to wage war? Those guys have land/resources/shiny things we want; let's kill them and take their stuff (the other standard reason being "those guys believe in a different god/same god but differently; let's kill them and take their stuff").

As a general rule, your second reason is just what kings feed their people in order to justify your first reason.

Except for Gustav Il Adolf, that guy was actually just super religious

>this was two years before The Character Assassination of Garrosh Hellscream By The Coward David Kosak
>Is Blizzard's writing staff 25 guys locked in 25 separate rooms not allowed to speak to each other?

No, Garrosh being ruined going into MoP was done single-handedly by Christie Golden.

No, it's a re-envisioning of WC1 without all the later retcons, like Garona being half-draenei.
They also added stuff from later games and stories, like Thrall.

Heh, amusing

All I want it to be is WC1 with the later retcons, without stuff from later games added

Basically a way of seeing what canonically happened in WC1, instead of having two semi-canonical stories to follow that are mixed together to make what really happened

...

...how can you have Thrall in WC1?

He's generations too early.

He was born during the first war

I thought he grew up in a post WCII internment camp?

Yes, that's where he grew up, but he was born near the end of the first war, and found by Blackmoore before the 2nd war had started

Not much time had passed in universe between WC1 and WC2

so how was blackmoore keeping an orclet during the second war?

He wasn't, his daughter and nursemaid were keeping the orclet.

keeping an orclet during a genocidal war seems kinda retarded.

there was limited human settlement in the area of Howling Fjord, as well as the nerubians and other natives

Well Blackmore was kinda retarded. Just like everyone else around Green Jesus

Why?

If he's killed by orcs, it changes nothing for him, if the humans win, he has a rare commodity in his possession

No it was one of his stablehands and his family that was keeping Thrall I believe not Blackmoore. He was in charge of all of the Internment camps at the time and he wanted to use Thrall as a sort of Gladitorial slave that he planned on conquering Lordaeron with, IIRC

>Argus is grander than it has ever been, only it is full of fel magic instead of arcane.

Demon worshipper detected, opinion invalidated.

>I kinda liked the concept of the Sargerai. Draenei who were so pissed off at velen that they joined the legion wholesale.
WoD had a lot of really cool ideas that were completely ruined by Blizzard's laziness. It had the coolest villain since Wrath, and the side factions were the most interesting WoW has ever seen. Then it all gets fucked up because Blizzard had no idea what they were doing

Is the Warcraft RPG any good?

What specifically did she do?

Warcraft: Lord of the Clans, Pocket Books, October 2001
World of Warcraft: Rise of the Horde, Pocket Books, December 2006
World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal (with Aaron Rosenberg), Pocket Books, June 2008
World of Warcraft: Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, Pocket Books, May 2009
World of Warcraft: The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, Pocket Books, October 2010, ISBN 978-1-4391-7274-2
World of Warcraft: Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects, Pocket Books, July 2011
World of Warcraft: Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War, Pocket Books, August 2012
World of Warcraft: War Crimes, 2014[citation needed]

i wish there was some tg guild on a rp realm that would be fun

Depends a bit on opinion. I found it pretty good, though the WoW D20 version is, in my books, somewhat better for crunch.

Big thing is to remember that there wasn't a lot of communication between the RPG team and the MMORPG team, so there's a lot of lore differences. Which could be a plus or a minus.

Also, the RPG isn't afraid to call the Horde out for the fact that they were the bad guys in the first two games. No whitewashing of the orcs being invaders from another planet or trolls being cannibalistic juju-worshippers here.

I'm not sure if it's the same video but
vid.me/wxsU

That seems like it.
>Medivh sounds like he walked out of the Alabama backwoods
>that Garona acting
>that acting in general

The Durotan scene is the only solid one out of those four.

Holy fuck yes! Thank you! Got any idea how to download it? Just incase they put it down again and i dont get to show it to my friends

if that link goes down you guys can find the video at the front page of mmochampion. I think they're reuploading the video if it gets taken down.

I enjoyed the scene where medivh found khadgar sneaking around in his library

there are addons that can download videos
gettinggeek.com/download-video-internet-easily/

Nvm just managed to download it on the laptop. Thanks anyway

The library scene would be alright in my book if Medivh sounded a bit more... commanding. Like his voice in Warcraft III. But I couldn't shake the impression he belonged more at a monster truck rally than in a wizard tower.

It looks so bad, holy shit.

And how do you fuck up Medivh like that?

>Garona
m8

Jesus Christ, this is Sci Fi original movie tier. Durotan was okay, but still.

The Arrakoa lore was superb in my opinion. Loved it.

We need an appropriate edit of this.

Who would be who? Obviously, Lincoln is Garrosh and Booth is Golden, but I can't think of anything for the other three.

Cairne, Saurfang and Vol'jin obvi

>"The markings on this robe resemble both the sign of Elune and several venerated Loa spirits."
legion.wowhead.com/item=121410/moldy-ceremonial-vestments

Just a bit of interesting flavor text on a grey item.

daily reminder that Koltira was a traitor and gulaging him was the only good thing Sylvanas did after vanilla
come at me ebin :-DDDD Blade

>Gulag
>Good
Go home, Stalin.

so elune is first among the loa?
>[citation needed]
well she wrote it alright.

>so elune is first among the loa?
well she's the worldsoul of Azeroth so that's probably accurate