So I'll be GMing an Adeptus Evangelion game here pretty soon. A couple of the players are kinda new to TRPGs...

Don't be afraid to completely change the nature of the soul or humanity as you see fit.

checked

I do have some things in mind, as I want to have the mythos be Nordic instead of Christian

checked again

I recently finished up a game of Adeva that was... it was not what I was fucking expecting, thats for sure.

So we start off on an Island, no second impact or anything yet, as kids. No Nerv, no Evas in the first session at all, just an archeological mission visiting the island to catalog some finds.

So we go around meeting NPCs and establishing our carefree lives, expecting magic to happen, and boy did it ever. We are in the middle of a school session when the entire sky turns to fucking lighting, and the next thing we know we are Evangelions. Not in Evangelions, ARE Evangelions, as in we see through their eyes and everything. Dropped into a fight mid Angel attack, the 4 of us and a fifth Eva already down for the count. We eek out a victory, and as soon as we starting asking questions after the fight everything goes all wonky and we are back home... kinda. Its on the island, but its in their weird underground room with lots of ruined murals and statues and shit, but one of the still legible murals is of the Angel we just fought.

Naturally, the archeological team that we just dropped in on was super interested in understanding what the fuck just happened. And so were we, because the building that room was in? Wasn't there when we left. Also, after we came back we found out, holy shit, all our moms were now missing.

So we had to help the archeologists delve deeper into the ruins, and figure out what the fuck was happening, in order to get our parents back.

The further the dug down, the more Angel fights we would get zipped away to. Sometimes we would get snipped of before and after the Angel fight as well, which makes it clear that whatever world we keep getting drawn into is a much more standard Evangelion campaign.

And every time we come back, our island is different. The ruins expand, there are more of them, and the room of statues and paintings is in better and better shape, in some cases even showing us scenes of shit that hasn't happened yet. And the weird thing is, no one else on the Island notices the new shit. To them, it has always been there. So they have to constantly check with us to figure out whats new, so they can study it proper. We are the only ones that remember everything between fights, so they have to constantly keep us in the loop in case they forget something when the world changes.

There keeps being mention of a fifth Eva pilot, who we never meet directly in the memories, and as the ruins become more solid and the team delves deeper, it is slowly becoming more and more obvious that this is the Nerv Base in our battles, but impossibly ancient.

Shit starts tumbling down for real when, after one of the fights, we get brought back to a sort of rest and relaxation area to debrief, and on the wall is a really generic motivational poster: "Happiness is a journey, not a destination". But the picture on the poster is an Island. Which is clearly OUR Island.

It is worth mentioning that at this point, OOC, we were connecting the dots that this all wasn't real, and we were trying to figure out who in our world was the fifth pilot. There were a bunch of kids that fit the bill in our NPC roster, including the sister of one of the PC's and a really brotastic guy.

But it wasn't any of them. In the end, it was the incredibly shy kid that our NS picked on in the first session and was sort of the running joke character of the rest of the campaign. We made fun of this kid so goddamn much, and at one point even got him arrested.

Buried at the bottom of the Nerv base, we found our final battlefield. One by one we found our Evas, or life sized statues of them at any rate, with obviously fatal wounds. Everything was fucked, HQ was destroyed, everyone was dead. And at the very bottom, the fifth Evangelion cast in stone, holding something in its hands: a glass bubble, like a snow globe, with our island inside of it.

Once we found that room, the island went dark and NPCs slow started disappearing one by one, like the world world was just... shutting down. We used our memories to find the 'secret room' beneath Nerv, where our Adam-alike was being kept, and he was actually still there. And awake and shit.

Obviously, we confronted Adam about or world not being real, and he admitted it. But we still hadn't really figured out why. It turns out that we all died against a really powerful Angel in the real world, wounding it but not killing it, and the fifth member of our team abandoned the fight and stormed Adam instead, starting Third Impact in an attempt to rewrite reality and fix everything.
But our campaign's Adam is too weak for that shit. Too damaged from being used to make the Evas. So he tries, and all he succeeds in making is our one little island, giving us happy lives, but not even for very long. Out in the real world, the island is playing in hypertime. It has been less than a minute since Third Impact started, and the final Angel is still rampaging and bringing down the base. Our world was always going to be just a temporary dream, but Stanley actually tried to save our souls from the real world and put them into this one, so our memories of the real events slowly fucked everything up even faster.

So we are already dead, our world isn't real, and everything is fucked. Kind of a bummer way to end the campaign, especially once we realized how goddamn shitty we were for treating our version of Stanley like a tool after he tried to save us from death.

So we all burn a shitload of Luck and ask Adam: if we burn of the island for fuel, if we sacrifice the rest of the dream, can we manifest our Evas in the real world?

He says yes, but not for very long. And once we run out of juice, there wont be anywhere to go back to. Adam will be expended, and forced into deep hibernation, unable to take any further action for millenia as he regenerates again.

We agree.

So, from Stanley's perspective, he starts third impact and makes a wish to save his friends. It works for a few beautiful moments, and he can see it working, before it fails and collapses before his very eyes. And then, as the Final Angel breaks into the chamber and he thinks all hope is lost... the ghosts of his goddamn friends come to his rescue and manage to swing the fight.

My Visionary was the first to die. Chest got popped like a balloon from a laser, and then I cease to be. The Athlete chick got super crippled and, realizing that she couldn't contribute to the fight anymore, intentionally let herself cease to exist so that the two Evas still at fighting strength could have more juice and time for the fight (the GM told us we were drawing from a shared power pool). The remaining two Evas, plus Stanley, managed to break through the Absolute Defense and kill the core.

Which left just enough time for a touching goodbye from our two survivors before we left that kid alone in the bottom of Nerv, victorious but having lost his friends twice in the same day.

I'm sure my story doesn't really do it justice, but it was an emotional rollercoaster. We all died the true death, but it only seemed fair to save Stanley in the process after all he did for us.

Super cool story man, I'm kind of jelly at that scenario.

I'd tell the story of my first AdEva game, but it's nowhere near as coherent. Fucking masks, man.

That sounds amazing user. I hope I can invoke some sort of emotional responses like your GM did, given that my players are kinda new.

How did Playing as the Eva work? Did you just keep all the same rules, or were things changed around?

> How did Playing as the Eva work? Did you just keep all the same rules, or were things changed around?

It was just a perspective change in order to confuse us the first couple battles. It turns out that in the 'real world' piloting an Eva means that when you synchronize with your Eva, you actually lose sight of your meat body and see and feel through the senses of the Eva directly. You meat body is still there, you just don't notice it because it is so much smaller than the rest of you at the time.

That was a great fucking read.

That's really cool. Props to your GM

I wish to know about these masks, man

Does anyone have experience with operations directors? I think it would be fun to play

You are literally playing a different game than everyone else.
And the GM either has to interrupt what the other 3-4 players are doing to do stuff for you, be able to run stuff simultaneously, do stuff for you at a separate time (except when the pilots and OD are doing stuff together) and literally have it be a second game, or - what happens most often unfortunately - just kind of...ignore that the OD exists most the time to focus on the pilots.
It takes an incredibly dedicated GM to have an OD work in anything approaching satisfying.

Thanks. If the gm is dedicated would you recommend it still? I think it would be extremely interesting to play as someone with that type of power, even if it's different from what the other players are doing

is the system really that bad for more than 3 players? my group would number 5 players if I ran AdEva for them like they keep asking me to

Yeah, it's fine and can work, but you have to realize that the OD is playing a different game. You're goin to need to be contriving various ways for the players to be in the same scene if you want the OD and the pilots to be able to do stuff. Generally, since the pilots are children, it's kind of hard for them to be able to do meaningful stuff without them turning out to be hyper-competent.

Regarding general Eva things, if you're going to be changing the setting, you're going to need to have a reason for the pilots to be childre. This was the hardest thing for me to contrive: a callous NERV that doesn't really care about the well-being of its pilots, the robots and angels themselves, the secret machinations in the background all felt simpler than having a rather arbitrary age limit.

The combat takes forever because there's so many things to check. Each round goes like:

>Roll to hit
>Opponent decides if they want to attempt to dodge if the attack hits
>Roll damage
>Opponent decides if they want to reduce damage incoming with their AT Field
>If not, then subtract armor
>Check the Crit Momentum and advance it as necessary
>Then is it over or under Toughness?
>If under, roll glancing hit, apply effect
>If over, roll critical hit, apply effect
>Then repeat for multiple attacks, and each player in turn
>All the while, make sure not to forget already ongoing effects

This is the latest edition though. I don't know about the other.

Ok cool, thanks for the advice. I've got a few ideas for as to why the pilots need to be children right now, but I've still got some brainstorming to do

Playing and running. A weird time in my life.

Currently playing an ATT. Entered the game as a socially manipulative reverse trap with OCD and the stylistic leanings of a cabaret singer. She tried to offload her problems by brain-blasting the NPC manu, but eventually came around. Went from chaotic good to neutral, then neutral good through the power of love. Also got to save two friends in the not-Zeruel and not-Tabbris encounters, one by berserking and another through the Anti-AT field.

I went full Shinji, and I am okay with this.

Game I'm currently running is in its early stages. A rogue planet enters orbit with the Earth in 2001 and causes widespread destruction. Twenty or so years later, the aliens from that planet, realizing humanity isn't quite dead yet, start to mount assaults to break humanity's back. Technology's pseudo-WWII, lots of influence from pulp comics and 30's era serials. Our pilots are a little older than usual, but the party's great. Players all playing well, we mini'ing almost every night. The coward punk even picked up a stray homeless girl as a sidekick.

This is all in Borderline 1.2. Don't mind it at all, even if I know I have to homebrew some of it.

Overall? Looking forward to shenanigans this summer. :B

The game you're running sounds pretty interesting.
What do you mean by "mini'ing?" Never heard that term before

Mini sessions probably.

We hold sessions once a week on Roll20, but between those dates, whenever players are online and in the mood to roleplay, they can do so with or without me. That is a 'mini,' or a mini-scene. As long as they're not fucking around with the plot while I'm not there or breaking things, it helps them develop their characters.

Hell, in one of the last games I ran, two players developed a lesbian relationship almost entirely through minis. It was magical.

That's a pretty neat idea. It's a great way to fill in the bits that don't involve everyone, like when Asuka and Shinji kissed because Asuka made them.

but that's forbidden love

it was technically a three-way

that's double forbidden

Hey. Hey.

SHAGOHOD is secretly a knight rider car with the lance glued on, and ELZIA for an AI

You're playing an intrigue game behind the pilots' backs. Just keep that in mind.

what even is that post

Why is it always lesbians? I don't get the fixation with this degeneracy.

I'm also in one of those games, and I'm just going to also mention that the OD's endgame secret plan is to steal the party's NPC Manu waifu and reprogram her to precisely calculate how to make the earth's finest cup of black coffee

I always just went with "it doesn't work for anyone over 19, we don't know why, and don't have time to figure out how to get around it so oh well"

I'd love it if there were guy/guy relationships in these games, but none of my regular players are gay. Feels bad man.

Please don't. John needs hugs.

This was back in the v2 days when AdEva still ran off Dark Heresy rules. I ended up with a player saying he wanted to play a fanatical manufactured, and another player saying he wanted to play a fanatical anti-manufactured.

So began the fabulous internal politics in NERV's ranks: Seele was the cabal that wanted to use Adam to become a hivemind God, Eigenart wanted to make everybody angelic (effectively psykers), Enclave wanted to remain pure human with a side of cyborg, and the smallest and most secretive of them all, Gehrin, just wanted to preserve the status quo.

There were four pilots: the manufactured, the anti-manu, the starry-eyed Chinese kid caught in the middle, and the German girl whose brother was the chief scientist and a triple agent. There was also an Operations Director who ended up getting himself a cybernetic arm indued with dust from the mask of the first angel the party fought.

Lemme tell you, everybody in that game was right crazy. The OD tore his own arm off to avoid angelic infection during first impact, frequently locked down NERV at any excuse, and issued handguns to the pilots.

The manufactured kid was supposed to be the team leader but he was very shit at it since he just couldn't talk to people.

The anti-manu was probably the most insane, and this guy never stopped antagonizing the manu kid. He also had the most influence on the story since he ended up bringing into it three masks from his home base. They ended up becoming some sort of amalgamation of facets of humanity, so we ended up with the Hunter, the Blood God, and the Manipulator.

The German girl ended up getting told about the five-way clusterfuck by her NPC brother but for whatever reason ended up not acting on it.

So, some time passes, and we get to the end of the game and the Blood God has been released into the wild because the players fucked around with it too much, the Manu character became a host for the Hunter spirit, the Anti-Manu character became a host for the Manipulator (giving both of them Psy Rating 4), the Chinese kid became the best AT Tactician capable of some right bullshit, and the German girl ended up being the best berserker.

Enclave and Eigenart forces end up massing on the outskirts of Berlin in hopes of fighting over Adam, but NERV just nukes the entire city to the ground and wipes everybody out since the players didn't warn their factions about it. The players all get their Eva unlock codes and free themselves from NERV, and NERV says no fuck you and sends the mass-produced series at them. The Chinese MPE defects because the Chinese kid managed to convince the leader there not to go forward with Seele's plan, so everybody decides to team up for one final fight.

The German girl ends up tanking all the hits from the MPEs for about 150 wounds worth of damage while the rest of the party just shoots positron guns at the ball of fuck in the sky. There's a coup in NERV HQ, and Seele is defeated. All the Evas stand around for a little while, joined by the Chinese MPE, and right before they can get to sorting out their differences, the Blood God appears, consumes the wreckage of Berllin, Enclave, Eigenart, and the MPEs, and goes after the Evas.

The fools start trying to talk to the Blood God, but the Blood God doesn't give a fuck, so the Anti-Many player uses his psyker powers at Eva scale to sacrifice himself and burn the Blood God out of existence.

>ended up getting told about the five-way clusterfuck by her NPC brother but for whatever reason ended up not acting on it.

I was actually playing a pilot in a 2.5 Adeva game once and ended up accidentally learning about the weird background conspiracy.

IC, my pilot was a depressive and basically decided to keep it to himself. He was pretty sure nobody would actually believe the things he heard about, and he probably wouldn't have believed it if it hadn't been the Commander he'd overheard too.

He was pretty sure he couldn't have done anything to alter what was going to happen regardless, though he turned out to be wrong about that in the end.

Ziltoid?

Well, you could always get in the fucking robot

It's in the top 5 plans for defeating the extraterrestrial menace. A peace offering, perhaps.

Immediately below that is full-planet orbital bombardment. You get the idea?

Instead, the Manipulator and the Blood God merges into a new entity with an extremely exotic supercharged Eva core. The rest of the players talk it to death, and it decides to gift its core to the German berserker. She decides it's too dangerous for humanity to control and since she's already dead due to going into 200+ sync, she begins to float into the sky to detonate it in orbit.

At this point, the Manu character asks her for the core, knowing that she's been looking up to him since the start of the game. The player rolls enough to resist the compulsion, and ignores him. Then the Manu character decides to use his psyker powers to try to mind control her into giving him the core. She resists. Then the Manu character decides to ask the Chinese kid to teleport him into orbit, then teleport him back so he can try to take the core by force. The two Evas meet, but the berserker is just too damn powerful, and she detonates the core then and there, pushing the Manu out of the blast. Chinese kid, using the MPE Eva as an AT battery then teleports the Manu character back to Earth. Having kept his word, he then teleported the Many character's core, along with the pilot, into a decaying solar orbit.

After the shockwave restores wireless communication with NERV HQ, the chief of science only sees one Unit 03 and one MPE unit above and asks "are you OK?" to which the Chinese kid says "I'm doing just fine," cuts communications, sends the MPE into the sun, himself over the Mariana Trench, scuttles his Eva, and get his Chinese mentor to pick him up in the ocean.

I'm still not sure who won. Probably the Operations Director who saw all the angels and Evas destroyed.

It was kind of spectacular to see the players pull all that off.

Does anyone have any tips for how to deal with the conspiracies running in the background, due to the pilots not having direct access to it that often?

Should the GM just do what they feel would happen in reaction to the party? Or try to include the players directly?

>Well, you could always get in the fucking robot
i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away i mustn't run away

I asked the players if they wanted to have intrigue or not, and it turned out everybody was OK with intrigue, so I just had to contrive some ways for them to investigate. Directly involving the players might work, because the pilots DO drive giant war machines that would be nice to have on your side.

If the players don't care about intrigue, then just have that stuff happen in the background and make everything focused around character drama.

I'll do this. I will have an Operations Director, so I may include him in some intrigue on the side as solo sessions in between games

I put it in stingers. Like, at the end of an important session, devote a few lines to what NPCs are doing in the background. Menacingly. From there, feed breadcrumbs to the PCs if the party starts to take interest in the conspiracy plot.

I've learned through running Eva that the IDEA that something is happening is not only expected, but anticipated. Confusing player expectations of where the plot is going generates more hype, especially if you involve personal NPCs.

Hype, paranoia, potato potahto. Super effective!

Oh this is actually really cool sounding. Kind of like the Seele meetings in the show, to create a bit of Irony for the players/viewers?

Exactly like the show. Playing it like the tail end of an episode seems to activate the gland in a player's brain that makes them respond with feverish questions I won't answer.

It helps if the investment is there. I've seen games where stingers don't have impact if the plot's stale or the character's aren't interesting.

That's fucking brilliant man. Do you do them in person, like a conversation with yourself, or do you do something else?

I ran a fairly straight up Eva game in the flavor of the original tv show. It ended up being the best and the worst thing I've done, and possibly my defining rpg experience. That was years and years ago, and I can't really recommend the system.

In person when I have a game offline, with different tags otherwise if I'm using IRC or Roll20. Always, I put music on and delay giving them EXP until after the stinger.

I played a manufactured in a game that sadly didn't pan out all the way, but one encounter the GM introduced plot elements to us by having the angel communicate with my character in a way similar to how Asuka was mindraped in the show. It was very disjointed, but my character learned a bit about where he was from while the other characters freaked out when he came out of the attack relatively sane compared to another character on the receiving in that spent some time in the psych ward.

>That was years and years ago, and I can't really recommend the system.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

>How have your AdEva games gone Veeky Forums?
Alright, but the DM didn't enjoy it because of two of the four players were kinda fuckheads.

>Did your pilots save the world?
Yeah, just about. Me and the other non-fuckhead managed to unfuck things. The autistic egghead ending up tanging himself to get the god fucking with earth to bugger off, the stuck up rich kid tried to make her own PMC and got fucked over, the edgy prick that kicked Third Impact into high gear got torn apart on the battlefield by the final boss, and my character, that was suicidal and had survivor's guilt at the beginning of the campaign, ended up being the last man standing.

>What was Seele's end goal?
They never really came into it, I think.

Do yourself a favor and pick a less awful system.

You aren't playing Eva if your characters aren't loaded with mental disabilities.

Do you think AdEva would have worked better if it was a more rules light system?

i think it depends where you're coming from when you get to AdEva

my group was mostly DnD 3.5 fags and we'd tried DH 1e once so it wasn't that hard for us. the most annoying thing to me was that each limb has it's own Wounds and Breach can get a little obnoxious to calculate sometimes.

if you were coming from something like FATE or whatever I could get why you'd hate it but I really don't think AdEva is any worse than DnD. I'd actually argue it's less wonky than 4e once you hit higher levels in that system.

Hi charlie.

Well, they had chemisty and bonded over mutual suffering. Plus the other player was a gril.

Which parts do you feel you have to homebrew?

Not him but angel generation isn't TOO fine tuned so you have to adjust or make up custom abilities for angels if you want something special.

Fun fact: BMJ was in that game and it was the first real AdEva v.1 game. I had some excellent players, that's for sure.
I've played a lot of stuff, including 3.5, so that's not the issue. I was active in the development IRC for a while when BMJ dropped the original pdf, and my opinion is that AdEva doesn't really emulate the source material too well. Even the newest version is still based around the percentile system, which I think is a miss when it comes to giant robot action. It's adequate, I suppose, but I wouldn't call it good for a number of reasons. But OP didn't ask about system opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

Going to be running a campaign soon so give me some tips Veeky Forums.
Aiming for a lighter theme (think Gunbuster instead of Eva in terms of grimness) and having a Shinto-themed mythos. Plan was to have 3 Eva pilots or something of that sort. Is there any tips I should know before running this? Also, what's the highest difficulty angel you've thrown at your players?

How far have you emulated Eva in terms of 'dafuq' levels?

I would post the guy who did karaoke in an angel costumeatand made edible Central Dogma and Evas to represent damage, but I'm on iPad.

I threw a conniving mechanical spider at them. It spent a while in the background causing various backwater towns in areas still badly affected by 2nd Impact to up and vanish mysteriously. Then as a final act before going quiet, it stole a 20 Megaton nuclear warhead from Russia and began to bide it's time, creating a gigantic space platform with these stolen materials inside a Dirac pocket.

After that, it set the platform to creating minions to start trying to disrupt Nerv's operations. It dropped a bunch of mechanical angelspawn and a gigantic energy drill onto the San-Andreas fault near LA to try and trigger the Big One which would have caused a ton of collateral damage if it had lasted long enough.

Then it attacked the manufacturing plant which was building lightning guns. The angel was weak to electrical attacks. They get a bunch of extra damage when inflicting wounds but can't cause more than 1 critical damage at a time, but if it or its angelspawn were hit with an electrical attack it caused full damage regardless.

During this, Nerv was slapping together some booster rockets to shoot a handful of the pilots into orbit. They managed to destroy the platform, thinking it was the angel itself. What really happened, was it dropped off the platform along with several other minions to hit HQ. It let it's minions engage the support pilots in the background while it snuck into the geofront.

Once everyone was back, and getting through debrief it sucked the geofront into it's pocket dimension and started trying to drill through the base's armor to drop the Nuke it stole into Terminal Dogma. This wouldn't have damaged the "Buried Treasure" or even the angel or the evas themselves much, but it would have blown up the whole city above and pretty much killed everyone the pilots knew.

Thankfully they beat it before that could happen, though I'm still a tad salty that our ridiculously lucky Skirmisher killed it with two RFs for about 20 damage after armor.

This sounds pretty amazing, honestly.

Wait what? Are you sure you're responding to right user?

That's what I'm working on in spare time. I'm running 3 campaigns on top of real life obligations though, so it's a rather slow effort.

Oh, that was the hardest angel I've thrown at my players so far. I think I forgot to mention that

Sorry I meant in terms of the actual value on the Angel
because I have a 13 Difficulty angel lined up as the final boss and I don't know if that's too hard

which edition 3, or 2.5

my group is using 2.5 since we started before 3 came out, so i know next to nothing about it

I'm planning on running 3e

You don't need every Eva to be deployed in every fight. There were plenty of instances in the show when they had multiple Evas but only sent up one to fight the Angel.

Not that user, but would it be possible to have, say 5-6 or so players but only have 3 deployed per battle at a time or something like that?

The question in that case is, how do you prevent the other 2-3 players from feeling left out?
(Also playing AdEva with so many pilots is a terrible idea, don't do it)

Noize, didn't you quit the internet? Why did you block and remove us like that?

I was planning on either those players being either officers in Nerv or the campaign being a drop-in/drop-out affair, whichever works best with the players.
was possibly toying with the idea of having an operations director but i don't know how much work that is

OD would be a pretty shitty role for a player to assume, in my opinion. While it depends on the tone and setting, I think it can usually be reduced to an NPC who provides tactical insight to the pilots, and potentially emotional reinforcement outside of combat. The whole concept of having an entire separate book dedicated to OD mechanics is absolutely ridiculous to me.

But I didn't quit the internet. I deleted my skype account since I wasn't going to do anything tg related for a while. And I still check my email that I thought people had. I've actually been working on finishing up those AoT rules for a while.

True. On a related topic, what is a good balance roles wise for a team of pilots to have?

>kuk excuses

wew lad

I agree, angel gen is not the best, either in 2.5, 3va or 1.2. Other things I typically homebrew are the downtime options, additional Evangelion construction options, berserk types, and weapon technology.

But only if I feel like it, and only then maybe one or two extra options.

This is mostly for personal preference, as for example weapons tech can vary substantially depending on how advanced your game's setting is. Proxi-fuse cannons for a WWII Eva game, for example, are totally appropriate to homebrew in my book.

We pretty much fixed them on our own. You pretty much became a meme.

Don't be shitty, user. This isn't a conversation between you two that needs to happen in public.

Funny, considering you can't delete Skype accounts.

It's an AdEva thread, literally shitposting general.

But it does, after the 'block and remove' thing. No other choice.

I am more or less sticking with the book's tech but my setting is psudo-advanced WWII so I don't know how that will work out. I think the party will start with gauss and something else though (possibly superconductors or sonic)

Cool, I hope things are going well.
You totally can, user.

>You totally can, user.
Proofs?