Warmachine & Hordes General

Beermachine is great, and I've recently been digging on this death clock has 60 minutes

Handcannon online is always good for a laugh. Except Thrall Lifee is actually good, I wish they would start up again

There was a new picture of what was either a new trollblood caster or solo or something, he looked old and gnarled, anyone have that picture?

this one?

This one? It's probably not a new caster, I don't imagine they'd start hyping new ones when the new BB casters are still a month and a half from release.

While true, they also talked about caine3 in the same primecast they first teased us about the BB casters.

>This Is How War Begins

Think they are referring to its crying audience when the nerf-bat hits.

Primecast when?

The nerf bat has barely tickled so far.

>inb4 Skorne

Are Gators worth a damn?

I have a small problem and I think it could make an interesting discussion so throwing it out there.

When I was younger I was less blunt, I enjoyed figuring shit out and was more of an assassination who liked Retribution as a faction. They did what I wanted to do in my early 20s. Now I'm in my early 30s and I'm far more blunt and direct, I don't want an army of 30 elves with crossbows, I want something hard hitting and smash facing. Not Khador slow and heavy armour then smash but smashy and fast. Has any one else found as they grew as a person it completely changed their wargaming?

is mkIII a good time to start playing?

will the game be more warjack focused?

re: the Menoth v Morrow discussion in the last thread.

I thought that worshippers of Morrow in Urcaen all went to the City of Man anyway, Menoth's domain? Only Thamarites go somewhere else.

...

>Are Gators worth a damn?

Well, as far as MK2 goes, the Posse is some of the best infantry in the game, and Blindwater is a blast to play (I play them). However, this is subject to change, and desu aside from being relatively tough to kill, they really don't very hard.

This is subject to change in a month of course. If you like their aesthetics though, I say go for it.

They mentioned stuff was happening in fluff with Caine we now know that to be in Blood of Kings. They never actually said or implied he's getting another version.

Nah Morrow has his own Domain. Each god has their own seat of power in Urcaen. Except Dhunia, her followers do the whole reincarnation type thing iirc.

yes and yes

with the guys I play with it's mostly the younger guys that are 'charge each other let the dice sort it out' while the older ones are more strategic

I'm not saying don't use strategy, I'm saying I now prefer simpler tools.

Lets say I have a car, I could have a turbo installed, a custom stereo system, air conditioning and all the fancy gadgets and gizmos. Or I could just have a land rover that works and if anything breaks is simple to repair in my driveway requiring minimal upkeep and it just does it's job.

As I get older I appreciate the later a lot more.

No Quarter when

May 25.

The fuck is this on page 10?

Dead game, etc.
I don't know man, there's no new spoilers to bitch over.

Yes and maybe but I dont have much faith in PP

>maybe

warjack points going from around 1/6 or 1/8th of your army to around 3/5 or 3/8 means it has to

This.

Standard game in Mk2 is 50 pts with anywhere from 5 - 12 jack/beast pts. If we take 10 as an average (to make the math easier) we see that jacks/beasts make up a minimum of 1/6 of your army.

In Mk3 we're supposed to be having 75 pts games standard with 25 - 30 jack/beast pts. If we have an average of 25 pts as standard jack/beast pts then we're looking at a minimum of 1/4 of our armies as jacks/beasts.

5-12?

I'd say the average is 6. Just glancing through my Khador, virtually everything is +5 or +6, except for Old Witch at +3 and Butcher 3 at +4. In my Skorne, everything is 5 or 6 except for 1 at +7 and 1 at +3. Who the hell is +12?

Jack points are around 10% in Mk2. In Mk3 it's closer to 30%.

Nobody is +12. I just skimmed all currently released casters in Warroom, highest is +7. Average is +5 or +6, lowest is +1.

I mistakenly thought Vayl was +10. I do not play her and was wrong.

>I have to play more jacks in a game called Warmachine
Aboo hoo hoo

As a khador player, yeah Aboo Hoo hoo

You're not even being forced to feil that many jacks. 30ish WJ points is 2 heavies. There's literally nothing to bitch about.
>Play 75 point game
>get 2 free heavies.
>75 points to spend on whatever the fuck you want. That's minimum 2-3 units with attachements and 3+ solos/Artillery.
But by all means keep crying and add to the Skorne salt river.

Holy shit, a Khador player whining about the new warjack points? That seems wrong. It seems like half the Khador players I see got into the faction for the robots and the man o wars, which are both supposed to become more accessible.

I mean you're kinda right assuming eVayl tier, where you're running at least 5 bonus points worth of beasts.

Hey, I ain't crying a bit. I just like numbers.

That's because they are dumb.

I got into the game because of Irusk and Old Witch and spent months seeing the games. I knew what I was getting into. I do think that being able to run 2 is good and dandy, but Khador has deeper issues with their inability to run jacks that go beyond points. Until we get new models, Khador paradigm cannot shift.

I'm also very concerned about the status of infantry in the game. They have upped the anti infantry hate considerably and there hasn't been any previews to merit actually taking infantry other than to combat other infantry.

I really like... pretty much all Conquest art. There's just something about that thing that translates really well to the page. Khador's take on the Pacific Rim style.

how could you possibly take that as crying about it, you stupid faggot? I gave him the numbers that show it necessarily has to be more jack focused

It's rectangular and pages are rectangles. it fits in the rectangles.

>yeah Aboo Hoo hoo
>how could you possibly take that as crying about it
Gee... I dunno

Are you literally retarded

I posted

>warjack points going from around 1/6 or 1/8th of your army to around 3/5 or 3/8 means it has to

and then that dumb fuck's medically diagnosable autism caused him to misread it as being sad about it somehow

Just because we have to take more jacks, doesn't mean they will be any better. However, power up and 1" reach is *something*

people in these threads are fucking illiterate. Now you know my pain

having jacks make up a higher percentage of an army means the game will be more jack focused just by the fact there's more of them on the table, you're right that it doesn't mean they will be better but those mandatory extra jacks can still do stuff like get in the way even if they're not that great

Hm. You might be on to something.

Regarding jacks, MK3 jacks are definitely going to be better than MK2 jacks, which were better than MK1 jacks. It's been a long work in progress. They'll be better now for a variety of reasons.

I don't think we've seen the end of infantrymachine, but we might be seeing the beginning of 2-3 jack lists ( outside of PoM ) barring everyone just dumping their WJ pts into Colossals.

Im going to be p pissed off if the seether has some random charge determinant. I get the feeling collossals may still be a better investment than multiple heavies

They'll probably be like MK1 and have a sort of frenzy mechanic.

I'm undecided. I think Colossals can be better, but I think there will be a lot of Rocks/Paper/Scissors style play. Colossals probably won't be as survivable as a handful of jacks once you factor in stuff like the new weapon crews. Eating a bunch of POW 18 catapult shots from behind a forest seems... bad.

Any knowledge on when new info on menoth is coming out? I was thinking about getting into the game with Skorne or Menoth, but it's looking like with Skorne being nerfed, that might not be a good idea

Sometime before June.

And take everything with a grain of salt. There's a lot we don't know about Mk3, and it feels like the devs are doing an absolute shit job of explaining themselves about how the factions have changed.

Don't listen to the Skorne salt merchants, we still don't know what 90% of the stuff in the game does, which includes big chunks of the core rules. Check back in a month when people aren't trying to fit their extremely limited information into what they know about Mk2.

They're explaining things fine, you just have to realize that we're still almost a month out from the actual rules release date, but people want their info NOW NOW NOW.

It's like a teaser trailer for a movie at this point, you can't judge the plot of the movie based on a 15-second eyecatch trailer, trying to do so is dumb, and being mad that you can't is even dumber.

They're really not.

To beat a dead horse, take the Mammoth, for example. They straight up left out info about it's animus, and didn't talk at all about if it's RAT changed, which can have a huge impact on how good the model actually is.

And there's stuff like pHexxy, where their reveal for him is that he traded two of his spells for two worse spells.

No, that's just you being greedy for an infodump. You're basically saying they should release all the rules right now because somehow them not telling you everything about the rules you won't be using until next month anyway is inconveniencing you.

I mean, it's not like they've kept quiet about what other warbeasts have picked up, animi wise.

So what are you gonna do, panic and sell your Mammoth when you know full well you don't know everything about it?

Why does it even matter? They could let you stew in your own impotent juices and give you nothing for a month, but they're feeding out pieces of the puzzle and you're throwing a tantrum because you can't solve it yet.

I'm not a Skorne player, and I'm not saying it's been nerfed.

I'm saying they've handled the spoilers poorly.

And honestly, that might have been better.

Or at least put our more general discussion spoilers that deal with changes to base mechanics and the like, instead of giving us specific models with little context.

>Skorne being nerfed

people are overstating this, I really wouldn't let some balancing keep you from playing skorne if you think you'd enjoy them most. protectorate should be in the next week or two though

You're suffering from a severe case of Joyless Faggot syndrome.

I recommend you just avoid all news for the next month, while everyone else acts like sensible people and enjoys the buildup.

Yes, because people are enjoying the buildup.

>you must be really fun at the parties XD

Yes, people are. Not enjoying it is the same as when a kid throws a tantrum because he knows his parents bought him a Christmas present and he doesn't understand that he needs to wait until fucking Christmas and HOLY SHIT JIMMY STOP LOOKING IN THE BROOM CLOSET YOUR PRESENT ISN'T IN THERE YOU LITTLE FUCK.

It's just because current Khador has no way to run more than one jack efficiently on any of its casters except maybe Karchev.

Saying that, this applies to Mk2 Khador, I'm sure they'll have fixed stuff up a bit in Mk3, the changes to Power Boost have made Koldun Lord's a bit more attractive as a jack support tool. Maybe he'll get refocused to be more dedicated.

There are also apparently big changes to Jack Marshal, which is something Khador has a lot of.

Power Boost does a lot to help Khador.

There are a lot of Ranged jacks that can do decently with only 1-2 focus.

Honestly, it feels like Ranged Jacks got a huge boost in general this edition. Which makes the Sloan player in me happy.

I'd love to see every faction be able to run Jack heavy lists (If not all doing it the same way). Especially since I know so many people who went for Khador because they wanted to run Big Heavy Stompy Jacks.

I wonder if Khador will ever get a warcaster who's dedicated to running jacks.

Maybe some badass engineer with a heap of those lovely Khador warjack buffs and an ability that says 'You may treat Man Of War models as if they were warjacks for the purpose of spells and Repair'

I agree Power Boost helps a lot, but I think casters still need a bit of tweaking to make them able to run two jacks effectively. Was just trying to work out how power boost works with Old Witch running all upkeeps with Behemoth and Scrapjack

>2 for upkeeps
>2 for Unseen Path
>Behemoth 1(+1) for Bombard

That still only leaves 2 focus. If I want to run a big Scrapjack Avatar Of Slaughter train (assuming it stays the same) I'll be giving the remaining focus to him and camping nothing, which is dangerous, even with the new changes of damage reduction instead of armor.

And that's not even considering I might need to cast Gallows on something to pull it closer to Behemoth in case I want to charge a heavy with him instead.

I recognize that this is really an Old Witch problem with having too many upkeeps and no real threat extension for jacks, but she also seems like a reason a lot of people get into Khador, has a lot of good upkeepsyou generally want on and it's a good example of how focus hungry Khador casters are.

>I wonder if Khador will ever get a warcaster who's dedicated to running jacks.

But they've got those already. Karchev and Harkevich are both ALL JACKS ALL THE TIME, they just weren't good because Mk2 was hell for 'jack casters.

Maybe he should have said GOOD at running warjacks.

i still hope warjacks will actually be better overall then infantry.

Well thanks to Mk3 being a thing they shouldn't need a new caster to fill that niche.

In an ideal world they won't be better, but will simply fill a different necessary role. If they're outright better then what the fuck is the point of owning Infantry just bring 75+30pts of warjacks you fucking scrub, and we're right back to the Mk2 problem but mirrored.

I'm trying to decide which faction to focus on with the launch of Mk3. I have a bunch of Cygnar, Ret and Cryx and I'd prefer to choose between them rather than pick up a new faction.

I like warjacks, but running fewer elite with lots of support more than spamming a bunch of cheap ones, elite infantry over any kind of massed, and warcasters that earn their own pay by being in the thick of things.

which i dont mind, i want to play "WARMACHINES"

anyway infantry will still be better, why else would you need a rule that make warmachines a requirement.

>I like warjacks, but running fewer elite with lots of support more than spamming a bunch of cheap ones

Ret or Cygnar.

>elite infantry over any kind of massed

Ret or Cygnar. Ret more so.

>warcasters that earn their own pay by being in the thick of things

Cryx.

Well, kinda. It sort of depends what you mean by "in the thick of things." Do you mean wading around in melee? If so, that's not the specialty of any of these factions. If you mean 'casters that contribute personally to what's going on, all three armies have that. Ret probably has the least, though Rahn counts as two wizzards on his own in this respect.

They're not hugely into melee when it comes to 'casters. Though it looks like the new Cygnar gal is melee focused, and Ret has Garryth/Thyron/Vyros1/theoretically Ravyn if her playstyle changes to accommodate Vortex of Destruction. Cryx has powerful warcasters in general, at least right now.

/d/ pls go

I mean, if you just want to play Rock Em Sock Em Robots there are other games for that, Warmachine hasn't been warjack rugby since the early days of Mk1 where nobody knew what the fuck they were doing, and it probably never will be that because the game is more than just it's name.

>Start to discuss Warmachine spoilers
>People assume focus camping still works the old way
>Make judgements based on old system
>Consider jacks using old system
>Retribution article comes out and says the old system is dead. Have to reconsider every single thing they have told us in this new light.

How retarded are you to defend them on this? The first insider article should of explained the system changes, not waited until we're half done to throw them out there.

>if you just want to play Rock Em Sock Em Robots there are other games for that

With steampunk flavour? Witch one?

I dont mind infantry, Mangled metal+1 always sounded nice to me. But most chaster dont suit very well in this format.

It's likely that you'll be getting a lot of stuff changed to let you run more warjacks. Better support, most likely. One thing nobody seems to have considered yet is that, seeing as focus is now in greater supply, the journeyman warcasters are more effective and will probably be getting buffed so that they do a little more. And Khador already had one of the best ones.

And your troops will be fine. You have the best infantry support in the game.

>Mak3da can grant Overtake
So her + Trainwreck can turn Molik Karn into a tool of hilarity. Got it.

The game never said it was all Jacks all the time either. It's a handful of Jacks and infantry in all the art and fluff.

The games balance isn't even that bad, it's mostly weapon masters that screw it up. No infantry should be hitting with an extra dice. 4 dice should of been warcaster and jacks only except in niche cases (this solo gets booster attack damage against Undead for example)

The Mammoth can be as good as ever now, with the mindset of the current Skorne state, they will still bitch about it.
The insider lit a fire, and with each passing moment and rumor it fuels the fire.

Personally I think your right, but in the end its all about sales. They know people will stop buying things if they don't spill the beans, but on the their hand, if they spill it on certain spots, they can increase the sales of certain models/units. Take Skorne for instance, they left rumors on how good their cavalry will be, mentioning that they will be quite good now. This opens up the door for more sales on those models, while lowering the sales on the recently nerfed once.

The same apply on the core rules. For instance, I think we will have to wait until the Khador rules to see how good Jack Marshal gets, but thats just a hunch.



It hasn't, it has simply changed play style. It will be a close combat specialist with range capability. Before it was only one of the good once because you could stand in the back with farstrike and spam 3, 4" AoE on the enemy lines. This went against what they wanted this beast to do, cowering away in a corner. Now that you have to change play style with it, its automatically rubbish according to Skorne, only having but a few playstyles, they are incapable of wrapping around the concept they might actually have to play a different game play in mk3....

I'd be totally okay with weaponmaster being warcasters, solos and character units only.

Same here. Feels like weapon master infantry are far too much of a no-brainer choice for list building.

It's not like weapon master is any kind of buff. It just means the weapon's P+S is 3.5 higher than written on average, with more variance in the damage output. Molik Karn's P+S is 16.5 in reality. Really fucking annoying when a charging Bane rolls 4x6 on your heavy though.

if they changed a heap of the buffs from "model/unit" you'd get massive shifts in force composition.
>so i can buff my one warjack to have a single super attack or instead; these ten dudes will smash your collossal in the face
which one do you pick?

have some support for units, have some support for warnouns - including casters.

Thing is, if you have a squad of twelve of these guys, suddenly your chances you getting a serious dice spike like that is increased massively.

Practically speaking, three or four charging Banes or Sents will usually shit on a heavy warjack.

Yes. I would rather they not tell us anything about the mammoth, than tell us bad things about it and let you wait a month to find out if there are good things. The gun becoming aoe3 when other guns like the ravagore are getting bigger is a dumb thing to lead with.

>Cannoneer's gun shoots bigger balls than the Mammoth's guns
Best part is the Cannoneer's model clearly shows the cannonballs and they're pretty small.

I'm trying to come up with a simple but effective basing scheme and failing miserably. I was doing snow over brown earth and it looked decent but pondering something a bit easier.

They should reveal the rules. At least then the spoilers woulnt be fucking useless. I dont understand the PPID'sL defense, dont they realise that we still know p much next to nothing because we have next to no context?