Pathfinder General - /pfg/

Sure thing, SATAN.

Hold person then, it is humanoid.
Wizard can be flying, invisible, and laughing his ass off.

That's retarded. I think martials should get cool stuff but hate how PoW is designed and think its buttfuck retarded.

Last 5 times I've said this people have immediately countered with "abluu bluu bluu, martials shouldn't have nice things". This is an exact quote from last thread. It's the most idiotic kind of strawman you can have.

Shark incarnate PRC

d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/shark-incarnate

>fix your math
>Pathfinder
How?

What about race?

Is there anything appropriate?

The troll has scent, he can still find the wizard. Scent is given by a level 1 primal furty stance.

Did you try reading the post?

People can not like PoW for reasons other than 'bluh bluh martials are fine'

Seascarred Skinwalker Shark Shaman
>www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp#TOC-Wereshark-Kin-Seascarred-

>building an NPC like a PC
This is cancer and you're a moron for thinking it's a good plan. You don't build NPCs as PCs, because then your party will die constantly, and lose any interest in building ACTUAL characters. If your guy is certain to die within an hour or two of play, you'll never get invested in them.

You don't build a troll as a fucking PF-wielding nutjob, because that just makes the arms race worse. You make him more defensive so that he can live long enough to use his normal full attacks or other such abilities.

What kind of cool things do you think they should get? Because the fact that you haven't started writing them down and sharing them means you're part of the problem.

Have you never heard of the Wereshark Skinwalkers, user? I'm like 90% sure that was a thing.

>I think people in Africa deserve better access to water
>But this well they've dug pisses me off! Fuck THIS well, they should've dug it differently!
Just be happy someone actually did A thing for martials, you frothing bonobo ape

Damn, that's pretty shark man.

Thanks.

Anything, except Dwarves.

I just don't think of them as ocean predators.

shut up

>What kind of cool things do you think they should get? Because the fact that you haven't started writing them down and sharing them means you're part of the problem.
>if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem

Do you see how much homebrew is lost to the slush on /pfg/? Now you're just back peddling to try and cover your bases.

Then build this troll with everything he has.
Also scent you must be within 5 feet to pin point
Also still 50% concealment even when pinpointed.

eat a dick

You're an asshole

>fix your math
Alright, so I've got a monster that by itself can deal between 64-77 DPR from two attacks, and it's designed to be fought in a group of about 3-5. What level would this be an appropriate encounter? 10-ish?

>You don't build a troll as a fucking PF-wielding nutjob, because that just makes the arms race worse. You make him more defensive so that he can live long enough to use his normal full attacks or other such abilities.
He's a troll, trolls in their own description do not fight defensively.

My original gripe is that use of PoW, which this character is not even massively optimized after I took off the improved nat. He drinks a potion, takes a stance, and uses a maneuver. He is wearing a str belt. That's the extent of his "minmaxing" to kill the party. The only way to not have him kill the party is to simply not use Primal Fury, the most thematically appropriate discipline for a troll or dial him back so he is less effective at his job than an average character in his shoes should be.

fuck off.

That's not even close to the same thing.

You aren't obliged to like PoW just because paizo are shitters.

It needs to be judged on its OWN merits, not the failures of others.

I shouldn't use an inferior tool just because nothing else is available. I simply do not undertake the task, the task being having martials at all, or pathfinder for that matter.

have more shark.

See that is not how building NPCs work. PCs are built before NPCs. So you build the casterfirst and I'll respond with the troll.

>Posts almost exactly a minute apart
Irritating samefag detected.

Has anyone ever played campaigns that primarily take place on an outer plane or focusing on planescape-style planehopping?

I'm thinking of running a campaign in the Lower Planes starring fiendish PCs born and raised there.

He's gonna need a swift to change into that stance fuckboi.

And in that stance he isn't getting those size increases.

That should have been obvious based on the nature of the pictures you fucking stumpy papaya.

Just because something else is a worse failure does not make this not a failure. They're BOTH garbage. I'm not using different garbage because it smells a little sweeter.

>I hate PoW!
>I hate paizo martials!
>I want good martials!
What the fuck do you want to happen to them? Delete Fighter and replace it with Magus? How about you fuck off and come back with some functional homebrew instead of complaining.

To be fair, I don't think it was too hard to tell from the images.

He actually doesn't need the size increases against the wizard because of the wizard's smaller health pool. He kills the wizard on average without them.

In other words you will build Schrodingers martial to perfectly counter a caster.
Get fucked scrub.

Yeah, and how about you stop complaining every time someone says they don't like PoW, by immediately jumping to the conclusion that they don't think martials deserve the fucking air they breathe, eh?

You poor baby. Do you want me to read your homebrew and tell you what a good boy you've been?

Grow the fuck up. Nobody has to give a shit about your homebrew, but you don't get to cry about the alternatives if you don't try and fix it yourself.

If you use this on your players, expect them to come back able to one-round that troll after the fact. When you start an arms race with them, the only way to win that arms race is to ROCKS FALL, EVERYBODY DIES. And though you may win, you're a fucking cunt for doing it.

And on its own merits, it's a damn sight better than the other options. But if you're gonna go BUT I DON'T PLAY PATHFINDER then nobody actually gives a fuck what your opinion is on the subject.

>PoW is a failure
Sorry laddiwad, but considering it is pretty widely accepted nowadays, except by 1pp-only folks and a small minority of angry folks who apparently don't even fucking play PF, you're incorrect.

I just hate pathfinder.

>manage to get out of having to go do shit with my asshole brother
>go to let my group know that I won't be late
>mfw finding out someone else was dead tired from work and had to cancel
>mfw wound up spending the day reading up on the vigilante and catching up on anime because I hadn't made any other plans
>mfw another week of not getting to play

So how did everyone else's game(s) go this weekend?

>The only way to not have him kill the party
Or you could make it clear that fighting a super skilled monster warrior will probably get them torn to shreds if they fight him in a straight up fight.

We played yesterday night instead of tonight, and I got to try my Ravenlord Harbinger. I'm doing a lot less damage than I thought I would, but it was a lot of fun and my owl and my character made pretty solid distractions for the rest of the party.

Who are you calling a stumpy papaya, you fetal alcohol syndrome-riddled mango?

>Has anyone ever played campaigns that primarily take place on an outer plane or focusing on planescape-style planehopping?
>I'm thinking of running a campaign in the Lower Planes starring fiendish PCs born and raised there.
Let me add some qualifiers: DSP, PoW and SoP classes and archetypes within tier 3-4 only.

See, I could have said the same thing about schrodingers wizard. So no matter who builds first it's a problem. Are you saying he wouldn't have made the wizard to have spells be prepared to exactly fight the build I post?

The only way to do this fairly is a simultaneous reveal.

>You poor baby. Do you want me to read your homebrew and tell you what a good boy you've been?
Shit nigga I don't post homebrew here. You seem to be projecting m8.

>If you use this on your players, expect them to come back able to one-round that troll after the fact. When you start an arms race with them, the only way to win that arms race is to ROCKS FALL, EVERYBODY DIES. And though you may win, you're a fucking cunt for doing it.

I'm saying PoW by itself with little to no optimization created an armsrace.

>Sorry laddiwad, but considering it is pretty widely accepted nowadays, except by 1pp-only folks and a small minority of angry folks who apparently don't even fucking play PF, you're incorrect.
Literally only on /pfg/ You do realize PoW is relatively unpopular outside of here. You need to step out of the echochamber.

Game is currently going on, combat starts now.

GO SHRED YOURSELF YOU FUCKING LEMON

>Disliking PoW apparently means you don't think martials deserve shit
>It's impossible to dislike PoW based on flavor, mechanics, or power level
>PoW is objectively good

You know that's not how opinions work, right?

I'm sold. When do we start?

See the thing is a single CR 10 creature should not be that dangerous of an encounter for a group of level 8s. If the troll wins initiative, or makes as save if he doesn't, a PC is going to die.

That's the problem I have been talking about. Efficient deadliness of that degree shows an issue with how PoW is designed.

I will clock out tomorrow morning with 73.5 hours worked this week. Next week isn't looking so good either.

I might be able to run a game on the 27th, as long as it doesn't interfere with Friday Night Magic™.

I made file related for an user out of boredom.

I can only find GMs who want to run Adventure Paths, so they always start from level 1, so they ALWAYS think Path of War characters are overpowered because they shit all over encounters then.

What do?

So let's say I wanna play this Salt Powered Robot right here in PF.

overwatch.gamepedia.com/Bastion

How am I supposed to do that?

Hey guys, who wants to read some PoW homebrew?

>CR
CR is a fucked.

Run a game yourself to show them how it's done.

We wrapped up one campaign. It was pretty sick.

>Universe was corrupted by this psionic worm infestation
>They had taken control of a network of interplanar mercenaries
>We had joined a group of high tech dwarves to acquire and defend a series of artifacts so we could write them out of existence
>Were holding them off half a dozen (dozens more canon-wise, but we were running out of time) fetchling purple worms filled with undead, and an active portal to the Shadow plane, through which nightshades were attacking
>The artifacts were starting to warp reality, and the collective swarm sucked the rest of the party into a psionic demiplane
>At the last second, the wizard chains of light'd himself to keep him from being shifted
>Managed to remove the one keeping the demiplane active
>'Reset' reality
>Find ourselves in the mind of a series of mind flayers running a simulation of reality at the end of their universe, living out billions of lives in an instant as the sun is exploding
>The corruption was the simulation deteriorating
>We had the option of ending the series of simulations (There had been hundreds of millions of iterations of that universe), because they would become more likely to be corrupted and we would suffer eternal torment if so
>We chose to keep simulating, trying to discover a way to build a simulation that wouldn't be able to be corrupted
>Let there be light

The GM of the other campaign had pawned his laptop to pay rent until his next paycheck came in, and forgot until the day before the session, so we have to wait a month until he buys it back.

What level was the party? Because by giving a cr5, 6hd troll five levels in an initiating class you've essentially made a CR10-11 encounter. (possibly more if you're applying certain rules incorrectly).

Which would mean that this is potentially an exceptionally lethal encounter for a 5th-7th level party.

First, what is your PC's background? Where were they born, how did they live, why did they join the party?

(Pictured: One of the salamandrine men, mortal inhabitants of the lower planes.)

Also this is another issue, the frontloading of power. Casters are a midload, paizo martials a no load.

Fine, a single 11HD creature.

I judge it at CR10 because the troll has low wealth. The party in this case would be 4 level 8s.

Considering every option he mentioned is likely on the chopping block for the coming errata, that's not really an argument.

If that troll was rocking Golden Lion or Iron Tortoise maneuvers, the fight wouldn't be nearly as instakill-levels of lethal.

The argument that characters based around PF and BB (and BS to a lesser degree) are the entire problem with PoW is stupid, because not only are they getting looked at, but there are PLENTY of good disciplines to grab shit from for your NPCs that don't turn them into horrific murderbeasts.

I will play THE FUCK out of that game.

I'll go for it. I'll play a Support Tower zealot, or possible a qlippoth born tiefling steel fisted commando.

Construct that can spend a full-round action to go full auto.

>Guys, have you noticed that bagels suck ass?
>I dunno dude, these ones are pretty good
>No dude, those bagels suck dick too
>What? I think they're pretty good
>No, those are shit like the rest of 'em
>Look, if you don't like THESE bagels, then all the other bagels are even worse, so like, stop complaining
>No, I want good bagels god damn it
>But these ARE good
>No, they're shit! I want better ones
>Well those don't fuckin' exist dude, and these are honestly alright
>Can you fucking stop talking about your subpar shitcan bagels? Fucking shill, are you getting paid to promote those or what?
>Yeah, a local bakery is gonna pay me to shill their bagels. Do you even like bagels or are you just shitposting, anyway?
>How fucking dare you imply I don't like bagels you cocksucker I fucking LOVE bagels and the SHIT bagels you're eating now are nowhere NEAR what I want
>Okay dude then don't eat fuckin' bagels at all, I'll just eat these ones
>Can you NOT do that you fucker those are almost as shit as the rest of them
>Can you, like, fuck off?
>No you piece of shit listen to me

>In the other room, a man in a blue bathrobe is eating a donut, smiling to himself as it's indescribably celestial taste permeates his tongue
>Around him lay mounds of empty donut boxes
>He looks at you and winks

Every thread

Are there any other good tier 3 pure (Ex) classes?

How fiendish are we talking?

Like some random tieflings, or some minor demon PCs?

Ok I guess that's fine too. I thought some people would want to look because we're talking about PoW homebrew.

PoW doesn't immediately mean Ex you know.

What's the massive fascination with Ex stuff anyway?

Hm. Depends on which character I'd want to play, honestly. I'd have to think which one would fit the best into a plane-hopping campaign. Maybe it'd be the right time to try out a straight Aegis, with his astral suit fluffed as a suit of stone.

I don't think so? Pretty much everybody has SOME Su abilities or just is outright magic.

Vigilante were a step in the right direction. They are an interesting pure martial when non archetypes. Hell even Brute, their Ex archetype, is interesting.

If I wanted to make it as an enemy, yes - but how am I supposed to PLAY one? 1pp options preferred due to GMs, but 3pp options on the table.

Too bad Brute is actually terrible for anything that isn't an NPC.

Brute is super garbage, though, because it'll make you try and kill your friends, which is fucking retarded.

The Vigilante also has a fair number of Su abilities even in the base class, iirc.

Why can't we have more hunters, alchemists, bards, skalds, inquisitors, investigators, warpriests, occultists, psychic warriors, etc. etc. as our "martials" then, if martials can use magical stuff?

Same thing, except it's Construct Armor.

I'd be interested!

I want to create a series of monsters for my players based on the idea of infection, like pic related. All of these creatures would have ways to inflict some pretty nasty diseases on the party. Is this idea too OP? Party is at level 6 average.

And again, even if PoW is hypothetically balanced (Since there is contention), that doesn't mean people have to like its mechanics, theme, or feel.

A troll fighter 5 is judged at CR10. A troll warlord 5 is going to function a lot better *and* more lethally than a troll fighter... which is also part of how CR is rated (you need to account for special abilities and increased damage)

In addition the troll fighter five isn't given the +4, +4 , +2, +2 +0, -2 lineup you gave the troll warlord

d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-10/hurek-and-durek

Str 26, Dex 14, Con 23, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 6 is its final stat lineup, which is +5str, no dex or con change, -2 int, +2 wis, no cha change.

Using WBL you also gave them *more* increases to strength and size, so yeah, your troll warlord was probably closer to a cr12 encounter for a group of level 8's. A "hard" encounter is APL+2, an "epic" is apl+3.

In short you misunderstood the challenge rating of the encounter and murdered a party because of it.

If they have a divine caster, it won't be an issue.
In fact, if they have cash and there's a church around, it won't be an issue.

I'm saying the brute is interesting, not good.

Only Everyman and Anyguise are Su. That is because they help foil divination it seems.

However they are still a pure martial as they are not a spell caster, and they are nearly pure Ex.

Uh, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I have never claimed those classes couldn't be solid "martials", and in fact have only ever built them as such.

When talking about martials, however, generally it means "folks who can't use powerful magic" like Barbarians, Paladins and other classes that focus mostly on clubbing shit to death with weapons.

Fair enough, then.

The troll I built doesn't have WBL. It would have 4500go worth of stuff, lower than it should have as even a Heroic NPC.

...

>When talking about martials, however, generally it means "folks who can't use powerful magic" like Barbarians, Paladins and other classes that focus mostly on clubbing shit to death with weapons.

But an Elemental Flux/Riven Hourglass dude has no "powerful magic"?

You still gave it a size increasing potion, and a strength increasing belt, which both affect its damage.

You fucked up, that isn't PoW's fault.

I didn't stutter, user.

Okay. The only problem I can see is that the party doesn't have a divine caster, and only one member doesn't have a shite Fort save. Also, due to campaign-related reasons, many of the curches in the area aren't likely to treat at least one of their party members.

I've almost never seen that definition. "Martial" means "someone who uses weapons and melee or ranged combat as their main combat."

Includes the 6-level casters who go gish, psychic warriors, initiators, and in some cases stuff like druids (though anything with full 9 casting tends to be discounted).

>docs.google.com/document/d/1WKwyK10BvzqVb9M3lIJ0ZyraUNSuEr8y0QK6ML6d-6Y/edit?usp=sharing
The non combat half of the class is done, which uses a thing called your Research Facility. A moveable stronghold that grows with your character.

The combat portion is actually being written right now, being transferred from my notes to the Google Doc. The class is essentially done, just needs transferring.

As for the class itself:

The Agent, a mystical scholar on an ever more evangelical pursuit for knowledge. Beasts, outsider, ancient ruins, lost treasure, all merely pieces of research material to be garnered and understood. The class buffs its allies and strikes fear into its enemies as it cuts and tears chunks of flesh to add to its ever growing collection of cadavers.

In that case, they'd be super fucked.