Is anyone worried about the Bitcoin futures? Theres no limit to how many contracts people can buy

Guys look at the other markets that have threatened the dollar.

They will spend as much as it takes to manipulate it and short it. They want to destroy crypto and what we think about it.

This could be the best thing that happens to crypto as a whole as it could cause all the Bitcoin holders to flood the Alts market.

Sorry, I meant they will sell contracts to their "clients" that don't exist to short the shit out of it.

Look at Gold and Silver

Yes.
ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/11/29/2196222/why-bitcoin-futures-and-a-shoddy-market-structure-pose-problems/

is a future contract just someone saying for example ‘I agree to buy 1 bitcoin in Jan for 13k’ and this case hoping the Jan price is more than 13k?

Or are they just betting on the price & not buying anything? I’m reading different stories everywhere.

this
also who's gonna be bying those shorts? there needs to be 2 parties of the contract, right? average joes? give me a brake? so will the wallstreet whales fuck eachother?

latter

for every put option (an option to buy at a lower price in the future) someone else needs to write it (someone is agreeing to sell it to you in the future. unless the put-writer is selling naked puts (selling the option without owning the underlying--one of the riskiest options strategies there is), the put-writer still owns the underlying asset

Explain. You fear people will start trying to profit from it's downswings instead of upswings so there'll be less incentive to just hodle??

I'm sure that's not how it will work with bitcoin
>Jamie Dimon says he will buy bitcoin for $100 in 2019
who the fuck would agree to sell a btc in 2019 for 100 bucks when he can sell it now for 10k

ok so if the entire wallstreet bets on bitcoin going down, who's gonna be on the opposite side of the bet saying it won't happen?

Some user explained in another thread that basically once BTC can be traded on the stock market (ETF's/futures)...volatility will not be as big as it is today where you see $1000+ swings. The reason is because people would have the option to short it, and the downward pressure would suppress the volatility.

So people don't actualyl want to OWN it, only to SPECULATE on it? Is that the upshot?

They don't need to buy, the contracts will be settled in cash not in bitcoin.

when is it starting?

thats literally what a put option is. it's like 2+2=4

>also who's gonna be bying those shorts? average joes?
yes

why if they can buy a real btc on an exchange?

Yep, pretty much.

Have you ever tried cashing in?

gotcha

so you suggest that creating an account and wiring a transfer is harder to do than fucking around through some kike middleman?

where did that boy get his chainlink shirt?

I have thought this also...

>who's gonna be on the opposite side of the bet saying it won't happen?
The chinese whales that normally manipulate the price. It would be glorious watching thousands of wall street cunts jumping off skyscrapers.

It has yet to be explained to me how Wall Street doofuses speculating on bitcoin prices will have an effect on the actual price of bitcoin.

Who gives a fuck if they short it? Why should anyone care what they're doing if they're not directly involved in the market itself? Why should the actual market give a shit what they think?

it's basicly thinking that people will get scared of what the big bad boys from wallstret say, just like when Damie Jimon said btc is a fraud. They may dump the price but eventually people will stop giving a fuck, like about china and hopefully this scenario happens

Exactly, people in bitcoin seem to ultimately not give that much of a fuck what Wall Street thinks.

You also have to consider that the majority of bitcoin volume is international. Sure Wall Street has international pull, but they don't have the level of control over this that they do over more domestic-based instruments.

yea that's what I think
they can only manipulate it shortterm, even if the buy out a shittone, what are they gonna do? they can flash crash, they can force a long downtrend, people will eventually buy that back, because they are fucking scared.
People have been fucked by inflation for years, they desperately seek some safe haeven to put their money into. It's fucking ridiculous, 21 century, animal-cloning, heart transplants but people are still held down by a group of old jewish fucks thinking that can go on any longer.

"CME's bitcoin futures will settle in cash."

businessinsider.com/bitcoin-futures-cme-terms-2017-11

"Cash settled" means that when it is time to settle a bitcoin futures contract, there will not even be a spot exchange of bitcoin for cash. CME will just look at the current bitcoin price and calculate a USD payment the is just the difference between the contract price and the current bitcoin price. Again, no bitcoin will change hands.

This will allow them to manipulate the futures price up and down however they like without any actual bitcoin trades. A long contract holder won't be able to demand delivery of bitcoin at the contract price. They will just get a USD "make you even" payout.

The banks can print infinite fiat, so they can sell infinite bitcoin contracts and drive the price way down below 1000.

Strange but true. Similar thing already happened with gold contracts.

But what if they inflate the dollar so that's completely and entirely worthless that the only way for the economy to hold together is for the masses to adopt bitcoin for payments thus leading to the neets inheriting the earth

>who the fuck would agree to sell a btc in 2019 for 100 bucks when he can sell it now for 10k
You're not familiar with bubbles?

Futures ≠ options

The banks control the politicians.
The politicians will outlaw cryptos.
Crypto servers will be shut down and blocked by the ISPs.
There will be police raids of buildings hosting crypto servers.
Confirm times will go up into hours, days, weeks, and finally infinite when the last servers are shut down/blocked.

please concretely dispute what i wrote

This is how GOVT is going to get into crypto,

>adopt bitcoin for payments
Of all the currencycoins, your pick the most dysfunctional payment coin. The 3 hour transaction time coin. The 7-15USD transaction cost coin. The coin that was rebranded from "peer to peer cash system" to "store of value XD we're bank 2.0 XD".
The coin whose idea of a future hypothetical scaling system pretty much in reality (if it even works) will boil down to VISA 2.0 on an offchain network.

>Crypto servers
Dude what are you smoking do you know how POW and POS work?

It can definitely be done to (functional, meaning big) Lightning Network hubs though.

There is nothing wrong with what you wrote, just pointing out that these are cash settled futures

it drops below a certain amount this time and its dead, just like if it stayed below 200

>ban the entire internet

So how you excactly bring the price down if you dont buy it up first? buying 200b asset up is kinda tough.

These things dont work like people imagine they do. Futures are good.

tbf the bubble only popped after they started trading tulips on hong kong exchanges, the initial pump was due to trading on south korean exchanges

Sure, they can drive the price of futures down, but not Bitcoin itself.

Wasn't this shoddy history? Like some historian thought the max option strike price was the peak price.

paper gold works until it doesn't

>take a risky asset as a derivative and put it over a really risky asset as a crypto
F I N E
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READ A FUCKING BOOK TRADERNOOBS.

So what you are saying is the CME futures are a side chain pegged to the price of bitcoin. This is normie version of lightning network.

lol, by the time politicians move to do this we will be pulling them out of their beds in the middle of the night......bitcoin whales will be rich enough to raise militias.....militias large enough to foment civil war.....bitcoin has already won

Only drive down the contract price right? So if in a year when btc is 25k they jump off of buildings right?

that's why anyone with a brain is pumping btc prices right now artificially to dump once their leveraged options are placed. Once the shorts are in, they can slam the price down without being identified as the source and essentially print money. It won't effect the price of btc directly, but indirectly, there is no room for argument that manipulation will take place, and it's much easier to put downward pressure on than upward.

I love her.

Cash-settled futures trading is so much "easier" then physically trading in spot markets, that most people switch to futures trading and the futures price becomes the recognized price of the commodity. The spot price starts to follow the futures price, rather than the other way around. It sucks, but it's because people are lazy and stupid.

Finally, I'm not the only one seeing the future here. I whole heartily believe that if banks and gov don't fuck off decentralization there will be war.

nothing will happen.

correlations between what happens with cash settled futures and basically any other fucking thing dont apply.

CME futures price will literally mean dick all to bitcoins pricing.

I think so too
the idea of crypto is just to good for people who have been getting cucked for years just to give it up without a fight
remember when they wanted to censor the internat with that ACTA bs? at least in my country we had thousands of people protesting for days during a hars winter

The spot/physical price will start to follow the closest-to-expiration futures contract price. Even with people arbitraging between markets. This has happened in over 100 other futures markets with many types of underlying. The ability to print infinite fiat and manipulate futures markets trumps physical supply and demand in the spot market.

youtube.com/watch?v=9E4FklYpS10

there are already bitcoin futures being traded on many asian exchanges

it means nothing

You think the Free Shit Army, the Military Industrial Complex, the banks, and every other beneficiary of fiat will just let you guys "opt out" of their wealth-extraction system?

The market has already inflated the price of a pointless currency. Now it's the turn of the shorts. People have 10000x their money on the way up, and they will also gain big on the way down.

No we're preparing for violence.

The banks haven't coordinated their futures selling operation yet. This year (or next year), probably after a Bilderberg meeting, there will be a large increase in people selling contracts.

what are they gonna do? force us to use their shit? jus because we've had peace relatively long doesn't mean people will keep agreeing to every cuckery that the governments serve them.

without regular people those filthy banksters would have to wash their toilets/cook their food/painting their walls themselves.
There is already a lot of people who would rather live on a desert island than wageslave for those fuckers

The audacity of you fucking retards. You come here sharing tips and analysis of crypto, when it's just a roll of the fucking dice. You're like a sad old booze hound that thinks he's got a great method for winning the coin slots. You all think you're Jordan Belfort. If you weren't £1000 deep in crypto by 2014 you're a fucking victim. If you haven't already lost most of your money, you're going to at one point. Even the photos you post of your "14k portfolio", you're not kidding anyone. Spend 10k, up 4k one day, down 4k the next. This should not be a business and finance thread it should be a help thread for problem gamblers. You're fucking pathetic. You're lazy. You have nothing going in in life. That's why you choose crypto currency. You're all too lazy to invest in real business ventures. Take me for example, a real entrepreneur. I've been buying and selling cars since I was 17. It's paid my bills for 6 years. Just this morning I bought a "spares or repairs" listing for £150. Got it running after a quick reference of the hanes manual and an hour on YouTube. Same car, similar age and millage are selling for £4500 on autotrader. Night just sell it for £4000, for a quick sale. Even if I buy a car that is truly fucked, it still has scrap value, real physical value. What do you have? Nothing. Ive also put the deposit on a car that cost 3300 but will sell for 5000 easily. And all that took was 15 mins looking for a good deal. Last year I used only £8000 to buy my uncle a van and tolls for his landscaping business, for which I'm getting £1200 per month cash for zero effort. No sleepless nights. No spending hours each day following trends (100% pointless task) and now I'm looking to buy a small piece of low grade land for forestry operations. You idiots really have no idea about business or finance. I hope bitcoin crashes to 1k most of you fucking hang yourself. Worthless posers.

thats only if they are dipping in both markets. brokers make money on trade volume, they dont give a shit if they are buying and selling opposite trades at the same time.
will institutional money control bitcoin? its possible but not certain

I think so, only problem is getting into other coins often requires btc, which is the easiest to access with fiat. That or I guess we will have to start using those tethers, and then tether to alt, just wish there was infrastructure like Coinbase that makes it easy to get in only for other coins.

Btc is 10.5k, there going to try to bring the price down to 1k using futures, at the same time short bitcoin, unironically buy bch, i know i sound like a shill but i have insider info, ur all about to see the biggest jew scheme in the coming weeks, the evidence is all there too

too many people in the military industrial complex, and law enforcement will own crypto, they will be fighting there own people....people that work at all these banks already own it....the fight is over

I want to add to my response that CMe offering shorts on bitcoins, if it results in manipulation then another coin becomes king, then they will try to offer shorts on that. Eventually one like monero that has good asic resistance will stop their manipulation, I think. Obviously we can stop them from putting up huge walls and then dumping bags on us but since you can’t cash out the only way they could manipulate with their huge amount of money would be to move the market cap to another coin. I dunno, this is a complex topic.

>the evidence is all there too
>provides no evidence

wew and I actually want bch to succeed too.

I hope the short it and price goes down so I can buy more lol

So if I'm understanding you correctly:

1. Manipulators (in collusion with the big banks) are currently pumping BTC as much as they can before the futures are available.

2. Once futures are available, institutions/banks will put in short positions for BTC

3. Manipulators start selling, causing the bubble to pop and BTC to come crashing down

4. Institutions close their short positions, making a massive profit

Sounds fair, only thing I am not sure about is
a. the degree to which manipulators can affect the price of BTC
b. the timeframe on which all of this will happen

Futures bring equilibrium
Equilibrium brings stability
Stability brings growth
Growth brings borrowing
Borrowing brings interest payments to hodlers
t.

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I said i have insider info, because of this it all makes sense to me the moves exchanges,wallstreet, and jihan are making/have made. Im certain if u guys piece togethore things u'll be able to spot it too. I could care less what wins, I just care about profits

hahaha that kike behind the wall
fucking legend

Bitcoin is already infected with the (((banks))) on it. Bildaburg owns it through blockstream. This is the reason it's hitting the CME to begin with.

It can now be manipulated and the banks/corporations can remain in business. Lighting (TM) servers will centralize transactions and tx fees will turn it into something that won't wreck the status quo.

I know BCH tards are the most uber autists out there, but this is a crying shame. I seriously hope Donnie Darko meme guy is right and this thing shuts down next week with the difficulty retarget. It's literally the only way.

There are less than 17M bitcoins. Only small percentage are on exchanges. Naked shorting will be destined to be squeezed. It will only lead to price divergence between spot and future and increase on interest rates of actual bitcoins. That will create incentive to buy and loan real bitcoin. When settlement date gets close those shorters will have to buy back. It is a recepie for biggest short sequeeze of all times. World has never had a truely scarce asset before.

The audacity of you fucking retards. You come here sharing tips and analysis of crypto, when it's just a roll of the fucking dice. You're like a sad old booze hound that thinks he's got a great method for winning the coin slots. You all think you're Jordan Belfort. If you weren't £1000 deep in crypto by 2014 you're a fucking victim. If you haven't already lost most of your money, you're going to at one point. Even the photos you post of your "14k portfolio", you're not kidding anyone. Spend 10k, up 4k one day, down 4k the next. This should not be a business and finance thread it should be a help thread for problem gamblers. You're fucking pathetic. You're lazy. You have nothing going in in life. That's why you choose crypto currency. You're all too lazy to invest in real business ventures. Take me for example, a real entrepreneur. I've been buying and selling cars since I was 17. It's paid my bills for 6 years. Just this morning I bought a "spares or repairs" listing for £150. Got it running after a quick reference of the hanes manual and an hour on YouTube. Same car, similar age and millage are selling for £4500 on autotrader. Night just sell it for £4000, for a quick sale. Even if I buy a car that is truly fucked, it still has scrap value, real physical value. What do you have? Nothing. Ive also put the deposit on a car that cost 3300 but will sell for 5000 easily. And all that took was 15 mins looking for a good deal. Last year I used only £8000 to buy my uncle a van and tolls for his landscaping business, for which I'm getting £1200 per month cash for zero effort. No sleepless nights. No spending hours each day following trends (100% pointless task) and now I'm looking to buy a small piece of low grade land for forestry operations. You idiots really have no idea about business or finance. I hope bitcoin crashes to 1k most of you fucking hang yourself. Worthless posers.

With the fact that most btc trade is asian, this fact seems to suggest CME will be a nothingburger.

Pls could you sauce what you say, for I want to believe

>they're going to bring the price down using futures

How? From what I understand, futures are bets on bitcoins market price. when you buy futures you're not even directly interacting with BTC. If the price goes up or down, you gain or lose based on your bet, and theoretically the futures contract is used to hedge against prices so that you can buy/sell coins later at a predetermined price that will be beneficial for your position as a buyer/seller, but you don't even have to buy the coins at all. If you win, somebody basically pays you and you can just spend that money on lambos if you want.

I'm also unsure of how price manipulation will operate. So let's say the banks bet against bitcoin. What do they do to drive the price down? Put up a wall in the order book and then get ahead of it at the same time to push price down? If that is the case, why don't you just short bitcoin and actually spend the money on buying the dip when Wall Street liquidates all of the normies? We just buy all of the coins Wall Street is selling/driving down and ride the wave back up (which would include them buying tons of coin again from us if they want to try to short again) and then just doing the same shit. When you see the monster Wall Street sell wall, get ahead of it soon and wait for the floor, buy again and ride it back up.

>It is a recepie for biggest short sequeeze of all times.

You totally misunderstand a short squeeze.

This is the first time bitcoin will be able to be shorted easily. Almost guaranteed to have a major impact in the price.
This will drive the price down! Then more people will short and the price will go down again, but not as much. Then more people will short and the price will go up, squeezing the people who shorted far too long or the new shorters.

the only other guy in the thread who knows whats up, to continue the all caps:
CLEARINGHOUSES = INSURANCE FOR BIG WIGS

WALL STREETERS ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: PUT OPTIONS

BUY PUT OPTION --> CRY FOUL ABOUT ALL THE FRAUD+FINANCIAL FUCKERY
AUDITORS UNLEASHED (pay em a few extra bucks to check for anything even remotely off) -->ILLEGAL OPERATION AND MGMT OF EXCHANGES, FRONTRUNNING ORDERS, TRADING ON OWN EXCHANGES, FAKE "DOLLAR BACKED" CURRENCIES, SHELL CORPORATIONS EVERYWHERE, LITTLE/NO ACTUAL ASSETS HELD

Since these exchanges up till now have been free from any real regulation, they've used EVERY shenanigan wallstreet had used in the past and added in a few new ones of their own to pump up prices as much as possible artificially. Once someones able to make money from calling them out on the fuckery going on behind the scenes, your sure as shit there will be phone calls being made

Yeah, shorting bitcoin sure has worked out for people in the past.

People haven't been able to short it.

Sounds like a lucrative time to start a legit exchange then. They'd be doing us a favor, just clearing out the manipulative shit in the market. Crypto exchange would have to go legit, no more shady bullshit like tether or insider trading on exchanges, or price manipulation by markets looking to liquidate their customers positions. Plus that would guarantee a mega dip if exchanges were all going out of business. Buy in during the reorganization of the entire crypto market and wait for things to become stable again, bitcoins goes back up and you got in at the new bottom.

i learned nothing new from this thread and nothing could have accurately touched on OPs topic. the only thing i noticed is how biz has now been overrun by ex-redditor /pol/ migrants who understand nothing tangible about life, only know how to craft theories but larping doesnt work in the financial world.
crypto is the same kind of alternative hedge that gold is. if the price of gold can be suppressed by this tactic then so can btc. but long term this makes it even more bullish. its the same concept with the entire federal reserve system, a boiling frog pot system that relies on 0% interests rates and people trusting the us dollar so much that they are willing to accept IOUs from the US govt. the longer they try to suppress the inevitable keynesian clusterfuck explosion, the more parabolic you will see commodities go up in USD until eventually nothing will be priced in USD. because its worthless

>The banks can print infinite fiat, so they can sell infinite bitcoin contracts and drive the price way down below 1000.
So its bitfinex/USDT vs the Fed/USD? One printing to buy short contracts, one printing to buy BTC?

>implying the $176B rise in mcap wasn't institutional money

I still don't get this connection between contracts and bitcoin. You buy and sell the contracts for cash, they aren't redeemable in coins. You can theoretically use the difference in price to buy the bitcoin that the price of the derivative reflected, or not. Futures are separate from the actual bitcoin market.