Tactical ops

Hi /tg, I've been trying to form a semi-realistic tactical rpg and have held a few test runs but I haven't found anything to my liking yet. The systems I've used so far are:
d20 modern (leveling is fubar, since at some point the characters will essentually be gods)
Wasteland/Fallout pnp: (My favourite so far, mechanic wise, but too focused on the wasteland even if tweaked towards a modern urban setting it's just not right. Also the % of a % roll sucks donkey.)
Fear: (Nice leveling but too heavy on the fantasy aspect. )
Warhammer rpg: (the randomness is a bit too great imo. A great character can be killed by a random pleb, sure, but a trained solider should not have a hit chance of less than 40% and be called good.....)

I've looked at gurps and shadowrun but haven't gotten a feel for them. The World of darkness system I could technically use, but once again, doesn't feel right for this type of game.

So what system would you say would be best for this type of game? Even at a high level the players should be aware of the dangers from a single stray bullet or random goofball with a knife...

Ops and Tactics is pretty spiffy. Uses an action point system instead of standard/move actions, gun damage is based on the bullets you fire and not 'hurf bug gun big damage', uses 3d6 for its core mechanic, has armor primarily provide a limited pool of damage reduction on top of defense bonuses, and has two health pools- extended, which is the less lethal scrapes and bruises and plot armor you have, and core, which is serious injuries and bleeding out. Extended hp grows with level, core remains

100% GURPS for this, with High-Tech and Tactical Shooting (and Martial Arts maybe, if you want MCMAPS and Krav Maga and styles like that).

I respect your opinion, but Ops and Tactics is shit. Truly. Such a kludgy clusterfuck of rules bent over backwards to do something they were never meant to.

Pwrsonally, the only way I would ever even consider recommending it is if the requestor only wanted to play D20 for the rest of his life, with no wiggle room whatsoever. It's like recommending a mutated version of BRP for a game of Exalted.

>I respect your opinion, but Ops and Tactics is shit. Truly. Such a kludgy clusterfuck of rules bent over backwards to do something they were never meant to.

Please give me a list of things that is wrong with Ops and Tactics(More specific is better), and I'll take a look at them and see what can be done to make it more streamlined.

>That is

That are.

>Pwrsonally, the only way I would ever even consider recommending it is if the requestor only wanted to play D20 for the rest of his life, with no wiggle room whatsoever. It's like recommending a mutated version of BRP for a game of Exalted.

I feel like you play gurps a lot. Do you play gurps a lot?

Battletech 2nd ed had a pretty fucked up character creation system, but some very good combat rules for tactical combat.

Even better, it could be placed into a game of battletech as well for integration of stuff like vehicles, artillery, and everything else you can dream of.

I appreciate you trying to improve your game and looking for valuable feedback, but I don't have the patience to help you with it; particularly because my energy would be going towards a project I emphatically do not support. Please don't take this as an insult as I think it's great when people do homebrew projects, just know that I am not someone who sees your game as necessary/of value.

Again, please don't take this as an insult. I've seen your threads and there are plenty of people who like it, so you've got a fanbase, and I congratulate you on the amount of effort you have put into your creation.

You are correct, I have played GURPS a lot. By the same token, however, I wouldn't use GURPS for a mecha game (even though there are mecha supplements), a space game (even though there is a ton of material for it), or a superhero game. I also wouldn't spend hours revising Fate Core for a Paranoia game, or revising Paranoia for a D&D game, or revising D&D (and Star Wars D20) for a tactical operations game.

I am a firm believer in using the right tool for a given purpose, rather than spending months or years trying to bend a given game to your will and force it into a purpose it is not

*into a purpose it is not designed to properly accommodate.

> Please don't take this as an insult as I think it's great when people do homebrew projects, just know that I am not someone who sees your game as necessary/of value.

I don't. What I take as an insult is people calling something shit, but not having any specific, cite-able issues with said something.

For example: I don't like gurps.

>Why?

Because I don't like generic firearms, and the Hi tech rulebook is lacking quite a bit in the world of firearms. It has enough to satisfy your average person when it comes to guns, but I am not your average player, when it comes to guns.

So I am left with two things. Settle, or make something of my own liking.

I chose the latter.

>I am a firm believer in using the right tool for a given purpose

I am too. I just made a new tool for a given purpose. Gave people another option for Modern Tactical Combat besides Gurps, D20 modern(Gross.), and....that's it.

>rather than spending months or years trying to bend a given game to your will and force it into a purpose it is not

This is how nothing new is ever made or improved upon.

Have a gun post.

Okay, you're right, your system is the best for tac ops and everyone should play it.

Sorry for shitting up your thread, OP. I'm leaving now.

Post a picture of all your handguns in one pic.

Also! I'm not sure what version you've actually taken a look at, but I can give you a single point of value.

>No Modern RPG I have found has ever used an Action Point system, nor has calculated firearms damage by caliber, rather than "Type"

>Okay, you're right, your system is the best for tac ops and everyone should play it.

Best is relative. I wouldn't Recommend Ops for people who don't care about guns. I DEFINITELY wouldn't recommend it for anything that doesn't span in the years of 1800s-Whenever the hell we get early space travel and plasma guns.

It has a niche. Modern Combat. Fantasy Modern Combat. And early futuristic combat.

I'd like to think it does well in that niche.

This picture is YEARS old. I don't own a lot of those handguns anymore, and a lot have been traded.

AK pistol made me smile, it is a handgun after all

Indeed it is. It's one of the few in that picture I still have.

I find Ops & Tactics to be unecessarely long gun wankery while managing to have nothing that stands out, but I cannot really criticize it on that point, since it's kinda the purpose. But still, you got heavy simulationist gear with mechanics that are more on the simplistic size.
So, constructive criticism. It'll be nitpick since it's been a year since I tried the system, and my memories are blurry.
>imperial system
>character classes
Why?

I didn't like it because it doesn't do anything better than other systems IMO, aside the for the gear list size. It's very classical: You got hitpoints, classes,... I would have liked a more modern system.

>another option for Modern Tactical Combat besides Gurps, D20 modern(Gross.), and....that's it.
Twilight 2000 and Albedo comes to mind, though the second is hard sci-fi that is easily reskinned for the ground combat parts.

>Twilight 2000 and Albedo comes to mind, though the second is hard sci-fi that is easily reskinned for the ground combat parts.

I always forget about tw200/tw2013.

That is also a modern option.

>imperial system

Because the author is American. Made for Americans, by Americans.
>character classes

The original intent was to replace d20 modern. If they get your panties in a bunch, there Is a "generic" buikdable character class that you can use. The primary reason is because a classless system would basically be a rehash of gurps, and I did not want another Jack of all trades system. Hero and gurps have that on lock.

> It'll be nitpick since it's been a year since I tried the system,

The past year has mostly been streamlining and making variant rules permanent ones.

>It's very classical: You got hitpoints, classes,... I would have liked a more modern system.

This is really personal preference. It speaks nothing of the quality of the actual game.

>hit points

This is bad, why?

I get why people don't like classes, being semi locked in a role or box, but hit points?

I experimented with a complex hit location dot system, but it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too complicated and slowed the game to s crawl, so I left it in vsugely as extremity damage.

The Answer is Twilight 2000.

Whats the question ?

EABA V2 is really good for all kinds of stuff, but tactical combat with firearms in particular.

If you want truly detailed tactical firearms combat, cut out all the chaff and just go with Phoenix Command.

>It speaks nothing of the quality of the actual game.
Dude, any game design choice is essentially a tradeoff. Oustide of poor grammar, nothing will speak of the qualitiy of the actual game, because it's all a matter of personal preference.

Without gloves, then: IMO, you're clinging to outdated mechanics that have better alternatives today.

>classless system would basically be a rehash of gurps
Why is that so? I can find a dozen classless systems off the top of my head. It's not gurps only.
And going by that kind of logic, you could say things like "I'm not gonna use dice because it would basically be a rehash of DnD".
If you don't want jacks-of -all-trades but wish to conserve more flexibility than a class-based system, Dark Heresy 2nd edition has the affinities system which is pretty great.

>hit points
Check out the wound levels system in Open D6, or critical injury-based systems like FFG's Star Wars.

>By 'muricans, for 'muricans.
President Ford and the Mars Orbiter look down on you, user.

With some computer aids, Phoenix Command is really great.

I wonder why there isn't more rpg that use computers to run complex formulas and accelerate the dice rolling.
I've heard about a few unsuccesful wargames, but no rpgs.

On the other hand, I love rolling dice.

Can't really argue agsinst your opinion.

>Check out the wound levels system in Open D6, or critical injury-based systems like FFG's Star Wars

Neither of these allow the ammount of granular damage I wanted with the various calibers. Goes back into that generic issue.

I've already looked at them both.


>president Ford and the Mars Orbiter look down on you, user
I could convert it to metric, but literally none has cared to ask me to. And I prefer imperial.

It would also be a TON of work for very little benefit, since EVRYTHING is in feet or oz, regardless of amount.

>you're clinging to outdated mechanics that have better alternatives today.

I've looked, and what was outdated was changed(case in point, all of combat). Everything else was kept due to the kind of system I wanted to make. I didn't want to make a classless system. Its not me clinging to anything. I respect gurps for what it is, but its not the kind of system I was writing.

I wanted clear defined roles.

I havent read DH due to the PDF slowing my computer to a crawl.

Feats, skills, and hit points are necessary to make the kind of game I wanted to make. Plain and simple.

>I wonder why there isn't more rpg that use computers to run complex formulas and accelerate the dice rolling.

Makes the game harder to run, harder to play. More cumbersome if its done anything less than perfectly. And no one wants to have to have a computer REQUIRED to ply a game.

Hey ssb the op was dissing on d20 because the power creep of leveling, and i was wondering about how powerful pc's become latter on in your game. Cant wait to run it. Got everything ready and were gonna run one test session to see how OaTs runs and whether we are comfortable with it.

Power creep isn't much of an issue due to core hp. No one becomes a powerful god who can ignore damage, and one good crit can kill even a level 10 charactrr.

What you gain by leveling is more proficiencies, more feats, a little more ehp, and some skill points.

Alright thats good i goylt a doc a face and a techie. Ive already told thwm to watch getting into fights they cant win. Its going to be a lot of city crawl with investigation and the like, with combat of coarse here and there. Its really going to be the first time as a gm so wish me luck.


To OP try reading through ops and tactics, if it doesn't suit u it still might give u an idea of what you'd like to see in your own game. I find, at least reading through it, it accomplishes a semi realistic combat without all the time consuming crunch of other games.

>No one becomes a powerful god who can ignore damage, and one good crit can kill even a level 10 charactrr.
In the absence of crits high level characters can get pretty damn tanky, especially with high-end armor in the picture.

OP try Savage Worlds. Only GURPS is better and SW is simpler. CHeck it out, you might like it.

I am not that user, but I play GURPS a lot and like guns. What would you suggest to granulate the guns of high-tech and the like more?

Besides, you know, your system. Because try as I might I can't get my group to play a full on tacticool operators operating operationally game.

GURPS
U
R
P
S

Battletech 2nd ed is pretty solid for squad level tactical games and has the option of combined arms style games.

Twilight 2000 is a fun wargame that played well the one time I convinced my group to give it a shot.

Shadowrun works well, it's our go to system for when we want to play Operators Operating on Operational Operations.

I've played in a tweaked Edge of the Empire game that played like Republic Commando. It took a bit to wrap my head around the funky dice but fun times were had in that game.

> What would you suggest to granulate the guns of high-tech and the like more?

More accessories. Seriously.

Ammunition types are on point, but Gurps really needs more accessories for guns, and the affects they give.

Armor can be gotten around through a number of ways.

This

Alright, fair. UT has a few, but they aren't nearly expansive enough. I can name maybe five?

Exactly.

It needs more.

Like the Masterkey. They didn't even list the damn masterkey!

Basically, take Ops and Tactics GM compendium, the ranged weapons upgrades and convert those to gurps.

They don't have a masterkey, but they have one underbarrel I think? I remember seeing it in a list somewhere. But they sure didn't call it the masterkey.