Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Very nice cheekbones on that guy.

Argel Tal and Vakrah Jal when?

It's better than what I could do.
When FW deems him worthy.

* Wing flapping intensifies*

Is 20 strong assault squad worth it, or should I just make 20 tacticals with close combat weapons?

What are these Pegasus gothic boxes of which you speak?

>Post yfw the new box set comes with a Forgelord, and MkIII

pegasushobbies.net/catalog/Gaming/c9/index.html

>Mfw I played a 20,000 point Apoc game on a 12x4 full of that terrain

How'd go?

...

>new box contents rumored by Ishagu
>Ishagu's only other rumor mention is a hardback SoB codex with plastic models, rumored in January 2015

Fucking awesome. The guy supplying it, bought around 50 Pegasus boxes. Made all the Warhammer Epic buildings 40k scale. He ran the Apoc game at Adepticon this year.

Pics or it didn't happen

Is that the latest rumour? I mean, I've heard rumours some time ago that it'd be about the battle of Phall, so MkIII would most certainly make sense when you consider the parties involved. I'm highly dubious about the kit containing several types of troops as well as a whole new terminator and dread sprues.

...

There were also 2 Warlords.

Speaking of big plastic buildings, Amera makes a bunch of big, cheap pieces:
amera.co.uk/product.php?range=z

Guys,I think it may have happened

...

You think I would do that? Just go on the internet and spread lies?

So I want to make an all terminator army to ally with my normal legion forces. I play World Eaters. If I wanted to make a generic ally army of terminators troops, about 1500pts. Which legions are the best options?

Anyone have any idea?

The latest round of likely bullshit originated from Ishagu. Past rumours about Phall, plastic Assault Marines, plastic Breachers, plastic Rhinos, plastic Spartans etc. were all also from dubious sources.

The only reliable source we have on the new HH box is from Sad Panda with his flawless track record and being first to leak things:
>I wouldn't call it Calth II or a Calth sequal.
>It's a boxed game during the Heresy. There are Space Marines. Similarities end there.

Yes like how it was the Word Bears that did the Battle of Calth,when we all know that it was the Genestealers

Death Guard has a lot of terminator options, don't they?

Space Wolves

This is magical

Justearian spam.

Fast rules question. Are Tyrants Heavy Support? or something else? I am helping a friend with his army list

Those poor Nids.

they are Heavy support, although RAW also allows you pick them as Elites ATM

The Furnace's Heart: It's Assault 1 S6 AP2 Rending 18" Beam .....

Overwatch?

it never needs to roll to hit right? cant make snap shots then so cant OW

You mean heretical?

woof?

>Because Astartes, or Iron Warriors specifically, are just as if not more superior to human beings, as well as the mechanicum, in "building" (logistics, coordination, multitasking) as they are superior physically.
We don't need human workers to do everything we have machines for that shit. Does the Imperium not have cranes and bulldozers? Also this once again raises the question of what the hell was the end game for the astartes? The Emperor didn't want them to replace humanity but he apparently didn't want to kill them and he also never let humanity ever do anything meaningful as far as the Great Crusade goes. Were they just supposed to do all jobs forever after conquering the galaxy while regular humans sat around doing nothing?

>Atheism is a religion, Zealots can be Atheist, you can be zealotous with your anti-religion.
Sure, its just pointless.

>Well what legion we're His "Exemplars of War" and carried his own name?
The legion whose best fighter is Lucius "I have lost more duels than I have won" Lucius are his champions? Sorry to tell the Emperor but his champions are fucking awful.

>Good old fashioned backup, the tide of humanity's own monsters to drown the night. Their loyalty was meritocratic brotherhood, arguably more reliable to the Emperor than even Zealous commitment (which tends to u-turn under extreme stress instead of shattering)
Except Angron was never sent to fight those horrible monsters, it is why the Dark Angels were nearly annihilated during the Third Rangdan Xenocide. Angron's battles were mostly
>Hey how do we take this fortress?
>Fuck it just send in the World Eaters, we might as well use them

...

>Also this once again raises the question of what the hell was the end game for the astartes?

Same shit they do now, quell rebellions and exterminate aliens that get too uppity.

That's like comparing a child building a castle compared to an adult, Dorn and Pert were fucking master artist when it came to building shit and could plan for things even astres couldn't think if. In Angle Exterminatus while they were playing 30k table top Pert was raping with fortifications that all other IW brushed off as useless.

And as for the atheist bit they had the Imperial Truth to hold as their religion. A religion of science.

>Same shit they do now, quell rebellions and exterminate aliens that get too uppity.
And apparently build shit because humans are too lazy to use a crane, and apparently design shit because humans are too dumb to design new weapons and armour, and lead planets because aparently humans are too dumb to lead their own planets.

Plus if the Great Crusade was a success there wouldn't be xenos to kill since the Emperor had outright intended to exterminate them.

>Dorn and Pert were fucking master artist
Building shit isn't an art, it is a science.

EC moritat bro is back.

just painted and shaded the guy, hands too shaky to do highlighting right now.

i need a new lightbox

That is a yes and a no. Member the Interex or whoever they were called. Horus was honestly considering working with them despite a hybrid human/xeno culture. There was distrust for xenos but as long as they knew their place the imperium was willing to work with them.

What are the best places to put apothecaries?

Why doesn't Abbadon have a Paragon blade, what the fuck forgeworld? You gave Loken one, being a traitor is truly suffering.

Terrible bait

Design is art, construction is engineering science

>The legion whose best fighter is Lucius "I have lost more duels than I have won" Lucius are his champions? Sorry to tell the Emperor but his champions are fucking awful
Lucius is just having bad luck. No that's not it. Wait. Cosmic punishment for using the Mega Arachnid limb as a sword. Maybe. Or ya know the writers have in for Lucius who was suppose to be undefeated until that one guy gave him the death that was so pleasurable that Slaanesh gave Lucius the ability he's famous for.

Large tactical squads, terminator squads.

Even if the Emperor conquers the galaxy there is still the Necrons, Tyranid and the Eldar in the webway left to exterminate and that could take millenia as mankind evolves.

Really big units, really expensive units with primus medicae.

Yeah, no. The Imperium's xenocidal nature was based entirely on how, despite the odd exception like the Interex, humanity had encountered no xenos race that wasn't directly, hilariously hostile. The Imperium's stated aim of extermination was pretty fuckin' ironclad in the 30s.

Well a power fist is almost objectively better than a paragon blade
>83% chance of an instant death wound per hit
>16% chance of an instant death wound and 50% chance of a normal wound per hit
A praetor with a paragon blade almost always dies to a praetor with a power fist unless he has eternal warrior.

Or the Emperor's Children are just a shitty legion with no real gimmick because Sigismund and Sevatar have always been mentioned as the best fighters among the astartes.

Still, fists strike so slowly.

>Or the Emperor's Children are just a shitty legion with no real gimmick because Sigismund and Sevatar have always been mentioned as the best fighters among the astartes
In old lore Khârn wrestled his old man until Angron decided he was the good one and took Khârn to the apothecaries.

And humanity has trillions of members. Why not make humans actually do some shit especially if the Emperor's whole spiel was how great humanity was. Apparently humans were just good enough to work in factories and die as meat shields for astartes but not good enough to do anything meaningful.

They do. That's what the IA and SA are for.

I thought terminator squads couldn't have apothecaries. Can't see them on the list in the Apothecary entry.

He's looking real good user, that head really works

I'd completely agree, if Abaddon had Eternal Warrior. Given his life expectancy it's really depressing to see him get punked by a rival Praetor.
In fact his rules are just generally a bit shit. Captain of the Justaerin, yet has armour that is worthless when run with them. Either has a Bolter or a Power Sword (See- Power Fist is Specialist) as a backup weapon. Nothing fancy or interesting ruleswise.

I'd like to see him dressed up with Eternal Warrior and that Power Sword turned into a Paragon, as a baseline. Would also be nice if he had a rule that granted Justaerin the ability to Sweep again so that his armour isn't fucking worthless.
Could give him a tacticool ability like extending his Teleport attack to *all* Terminators and/or letting them arrive first turn.

I mean this guy is supposed to be the Sigismund/Corswain/Sevatar of his Legion and yet we are given a WS7 Praetor with less attacks and no Paragon. I'd happily accept a points increase if warranted, but Abadoo should be scary.

So yet another legion that even with just word of epicness surpasses the best of the EC. At best Lucius is the fourth best fighter among the astartes assuming he could actually defeat Raldoron and Azkaellon.

Primus Medicae are worth putting into Justaerin/Deathshroud/Firedrake/Butcher blobs, but otherwise correct and Apothecaries cannot terminate.

IA and SA are just backup for the astartes. There is a reason they are called the Solar AUXILIA and not the Solar Army.

Imperial Army. Ring any bells? SA alone made a good quarter of the Army's fighting force and is second only to Marines. By the end of the Crusade, at least by 4e Codex: IG, the Army was taking up the slack that the ever more thinly spread legions couldn't handle and moving to take the offensive rather than mopping up after the Army. The Emperor's whole plan was to have human forces take up the primary fighting force of the Imperium and in time reduce the Marines into a garrison force to slowly fade them away. Many of the legions weren't fans of this and tried to prove that Marines were more than just tools.

They're called the Solar Auxilia because when they set off from Sol, they were the auxiliary troops to the legions. But they were part of the Imperial ARMY.

>Raldoron and Azkaellon.
Knowing how the writers love to make him job I doubt it. I just don't know why. The only victories I know Lucius has is some mega arachnids, Loken at round two, and that chaplain.

Get wrecked, traitors!

Kill for the living!

Which continues the question of what his end game with the marines was.
>Marines were supposed to eventually fade away
Then why give them lifespans easily lasting hundreds of years or being possibly immortal (seriously has any marine actually died of old age)? Sounds like Thunder Warriors would be much better, once the crusade ends just stop making them and they will die off in a few decades.
>Marines were supposed to replace humanity
This is probably the most logical choice as it just makes the emperor a liar which makes sense when 99.999% of his population would be phased out of existence
>Marines were supposed to rule over humanity
This raises the question of why not just doing the second option. If humans are such retards that letting World Eaters and guys like Autek Mor is preferable to letting them rule themselves than why not just replace them with marines?

>Then why give them lifespans easily lasting hundreds of years or being possibly immortal (seriously has any marine actually died of old age)? Sounds like Thunder Warriors would be much better, once the crusade ends just stop making them and they will die off in a few decades
>not having an immortal garrison force with thousands of years worth of experience

>not having an immortal garrison force with thousands of years worth of experience
Because it is pointless and a waste of resources.
>643.M46
>Oh yeah that is our local astartes garrison, they have been defending this fort for sixteen thousand years.
>They have never had combat in that time but hey they only require six times the food of a regular human and extremely expensive weapons and armour.

And even then what of the primarchs. Angron sitting in a fortress twiddling his thumbs for all eternity? Fulgrim making fancy statues and shit to be thrown out of the fortress when they get to many because he is bored as shit?

About the whole Marines-After-the-Crusade thing, they were meant to be tuned into civil leaders and advisors. It's why they were starting to have iterators as mentors. Like turning swords into plow blades suddenly you would have teachers, architects, administrators, and such with thousands of years to learn the profession

The only wrinkle in this canon explanation are legions like the World Eaters and the Night Lords. I believe they would indeed have been culled. Not immediately, as that would certainly cause the legions to rebel, but as soon as Angron or Curze went on killing sprees other legions like the Space Wolves, Luna Wolves, and Blood Angels would probably be sent in to put them down.

Why do you think Perturabo was so afraid of being sent the way of the II and XI after he bombed his homeworld?

>Never had combat
Right because Necrons, Tyranids, and Eldar wouldn't still be a threat. There would still be enemies and rebelling worlds on occasion

It's a big galaxy. Fulgrim can make all the statues he wants, and gift them to every planet he can send them too. As for Angron the Ghoul Stars are fills with abominations so he can go there and murderizie them. Dorn and Pert can build walls, and have checker games at parks like grumpy old men every Tuesday.

>Then why give them lifespans easily lasting hundreds of years or being possibly immortal (seriously has any marine actually died of old age)? Sounds like Thunder Warriors would be much better, once the crusade ends just stop making them and they will die off in a few decades.

You don't conquer a galaxy in a few years. You don't make super tough dudes that can survive for decades of war and grievous wounds, and then have the drop dead of old age, taking all their experience and skill with them. It's also possible their super long age is a byproduct of their abilities, not the primary plan.

Thunder warriors were unstable. Good for a little planetary campaign, not for galactic conquest.

>Marines were supposed to replace humanity

There's no evidence of this. Marines were just tools. The Emperor is there to safeguard humanity, not to rule a race of fucked up super-human mutants. Just like the thunder warriors, Marines were mere tools for him. Also, how do you replace humans with Marines when you can't even birth marines, they're made from humans. You still need human couples producing babies to turn into Marines.

>Marines were supposed to rule over humanity

No evidence of this either. Even Girlyman, when he reformed the Imperium, decreed that Marines are to serve humanity, not rule it. That's why Marines don't have a high lord or any real political power outside of the worlds they rule.

some HH short stories/novellas or even just spin off books focusing on normal army regiments or Mechanicus forces, without any marines during the great crusade would be pretty sweet

He was said to be the best swordsman, that doesn't equal best fighter. He was one of the only astres to spar with his primarch and do an ok job of it. Yeah Loken best him the first time, a headbutt to the face which is the same shit Sevatar did to Swagsmund. And yeah he lost to a RG who could turn invisible, but who wouldn't be found off footed?

Wasn't Fulgrim trying to prove to the Emperor that Marines can be more than mere soldiers? If the whole plan was to make them into civil servants, why was he worried in the first place?

>Because it is pointless and a waste of resources.

Better to have an army of super-soldiers at the ready and not need it than need it and not have it.

Big E didn't expect Angron to live as long as he did before the Heresy. He just tried to get some use out of him.

Exactly! In Horus Rising it's shown that it was already the plan to educate the marines for life in peacetime. I believe Fulgrim was trying to show that you don't need them to run the DMV, they can be artists and musicians as well

Marines themselves are self sufficient, it's their gear that adds up. All they need is a geen seed, which marines themselves make biologically and an apothecary.

UMs were trained to be planetary governers which, surprise, they were great at. Emps didn't even inted to give them that much power at the end of the crusade, only Girlyman and his entire segmentum wanted to put them in power.

Everywhere.

It's a bit funny that the primarchs are to attached to the Marines, rather than the people they're made from. I mean, the primarchs grew up on their planets and all that, so it's not like the Emperor wanted the planets themselves destroyed, just stop making more Marines. Why do you need years of surgery and therapy to make you a killing machine to be an artist or a politician? I understand that the primarchs might have wanted the marines left to have worthy lives, but there's no point in continuing the marines as an institution after the Crusade, if human force have become strong enough to guard the Imperium and purge hostiles.

The legions as a whole would have been phased out, probably into smaller chapters that they are now. But there are tons of reasons to have super men living in your empire.

And a ton of reasons not to have mutants.

>I'd completely agree, if Abaddon had Eternal Warrior.
This. It doesn't matter that a Powerfist Praetor can beat a Paragon Blade Praetor. You take the Paragon Blade so you don't get punked by some no-name sarge with a fist.

Only a couple of chapters could be call mutants bro, and that was in only a few circumstances

>Dorn and Pert can build walls, and have checker games at parks like grumpy old men every Tuesday.
>MY PIECE WILL BUILD SOME TANGLEWIRE
>Perty, for the last time you can't do that in checkers
>MY PIECE. WILL BUILD. SOME TANGLEWIRE.
>[Censored by the agents of Malcador]-DAMMIT, Perturabo THIS GAME DOESN'T HAVE FORTIFICATIONS!
>WHY DO WE PLAY IT THEN?
>Because... because [sigh]
>...
>...
>ARE WE NOT FRIENDS ANYMORE?
>You say that every week
>FUCK YOU
>Plus, that tanglewire is a pointless waste of resources, I would never assault there
>HA, BUT IT FORCES YOUR CHECKERS-PIECES TO ATTACK *HERE* INSTEAD, WHERE I CAN SWING ROUND THESE MACRO-CANNONS AND-
>Pfff, Perty come on, you know me better, I could just unleash the fury of the Phalanx on that piece *there* and-
>WHY DO I LET YOU TAKE THE PHALANX?
>You have a model
>OH, YEAH
And so on