Dark Souls lore thread #8

so I figured out that I could afford the darkroot expansion, but only if I sell my copy of DS3, should I?

Probably Frampt. "I'm an angel, appearing in this fleshy form to communicate with you" or some bullshit. Kaathe explicitly leads the Sable Church, and Frampt is the Kingseeker, the one after a rightful ruler to link the fire. Makes sense that he'd try to sell himself as some kind of divine messenger to increase the chance of his manipulations working, since Kaathe obviously did the same for the hollows. Says that they were largely viewed as heretical and rejected by the king's Three Pillars (the High Priestess, the Knights, and the Scholar).
And yeah, it's Gertrude's cage.
darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Winged Knight Helm
>Worship of the divine messengers was viewed as heresy in Lothric and unrecognized by any of the Three Pillars of rule.
>This is believed to be why Gertrude, the Heavenly Daughter, was imprisoned in the lofty cell of the Grand Archives.
Maybe she sprouted wings herself, or always had them and is why she's called Heavenly Daughter?
Either way, too many holes, too much guesswork.

Aren't add-ons going to be available at retail later on? Why not just wait?

Winged Knights look so cool. It's a shame you gotta dump so much VIT to wear their armor.

I wish they'd just kept equip load as part of endurance. As it is, vitality is essentially just the vanity stat, and wasted levels on someone aiming for one of the contending meta levels.

Yeah, if armor is nearly worthless in regards to damage mitigation as it is, either turn poise back on for heavy armor, or do what you suggested.

I feel sorry for Smough cosplayers. They can't even equip a matching shield to offset the fact they are stuck with fatrolling without putting crippling amounts of levels into VIT.

Vitality isn't helped by the fact that Poise is close to useless so heavy Armour feels like a total waste of time.

It's unlikely to be Frampt because Frampt is pro-Fire, just like the Lothric Royal Family, so I don't see why the Angelic faith would be heretical if he was the one in charge.

Didn't the Elevens not care about poise because they nostalgia hard over DeS?

Yeah, admittedly that's a big point I wasn't able to reconcile. Could be a third, as-yet-unheard-of serpent? I'm also not sure why, if they're heretical, there are statues of them around the castle.

The Scholars of the Archives were referred to as heretical despite being part of the Three Pillars of Lothric, if I recall.

Welp, about 30 minutes left until the kickstarter ends.

Hope they release a early look into the rules soon. I am hyped as fuck.

>the Elevens
Literally who?

>I'm also not sure why, if they're heretical, there are statues of them around the castle.
This is why I'm really against the idea that the angels are the primordial serpents - why would the Three Pillars allow the statues of a heretical faith to be put up in the castle? Yes, the primordial serpent statues have little feathery wings, but there's also gargoyles with feathered wings too - much bigger, more noticeable ones. I think the winged statues are just decoration. If the primordial serpent ones do have lore connotations then my own fan wank is that they're statues of Frampt, who came to Lothric's royal family a long time ago and is the reason they're so obsessed with linking the flame.

Japs.

Just over 30 minutes to go and I finally caved and put down some extra money to get some of the board game expansions. Now I just need to decide which megaboss I'm going to pick.

Darkroot Expansion + Kalameet is pretty much a must.

After that? Gaping Dragon because the model is cool as hell, and maybe the Asylum Demon or Four Kings.

darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul of Consumed Oceiros
>Oceiros went mad trying to harness his royal blood for a greater purpose, leading him to the heretics of the Grand Archives, where he discovered the twisted worship of Seath the paledrake.
I assume it refers to scholars who wield the Heretic's Staff.
darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Heretic's Staff
>Sorcery is a logical academic discipline, and the power of sorceries depends heavily on the caster's intelligence.
So maybe not ALL the scholars of the archive, but certainly some of them. Maybe a group who found some of Seath's research and sorceries among the thousands of books there and were rejected by the other scholars for following the crystals?

>Frampt, who came to Lothric's royal family a long time ago and is the reason they're so obsessed with linking the flame.
That's my thinking too, and if you abandon the idea that Frampt is the angel, then it does fit. Plus, all the references specifically say angels, plural, so it's multiple beings.

>Yes, the primordial serpent statues have little feathery wings

No they don't, they are wearing feathered pauldrons.

>last minute pledge for board game
>realize you have to pay for more than two bosses
>immediately unpledge

No

Great, even more ways to discredit the angels = serpents theory.

Kalameet's a really cool looking model too. Have they said yet if the final miniatures are going to be color, or just sticking with grey?

Could be either imo. I mean they're statues, and serpents obviously don't actually wear clothes, so I think for the sake of imagery it's more likely that they're being represented WITH wings, rather than just wearing wings.

Jfc I just counted the minis from the kickstarter and it's 87 in total, not counting barrels and shit. That's 90p a mini, not factoring in the actual boardgame parts

>The queen is Rosaria
>The queen is the shrine handmaiden
>The queen is Gertrude
>The queen is Gwynevere
>The queen is Shanalotte
>The queen is Fira from the comic which is totally canon guys
What the fuck? This almost makes me want to suffer painfully and play Dark Souls.

...

It's great value, and makes me sad that I can't afford to back it right now, and mad that the eventual retail release is going to have like a quarter the content for the same price.

It's shitposting. Don't give it too much thought.

All I want is there to be a helmet that's just that statue's head.

...

First time I went through the Archives, I was hoping that there'd be a helmet that was the melted wax candle head, instead of the temporary effect of just dunking your head. Turns out there WAS, but it was cut.
darksouls3.wikidot.com/unused-content

Apparently if you invade and dip your head, you'll have a permanently dipped head when you return to your world.

I don't follow.

codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Saitama_Ghetto#Elevens

Firekeepers are for _____

You know you'll be able to up your pledge to get addons post-campaign, right?

They're going to be grey. Paintable though.

ShANALotte was not a firekeeper

Being more annoying than just doing shit at the bonfire like they had in 1.

Rolled 916 (1d1000)

Neither was the doll.

hug

It's spelled "Ocelotte"

eh, I'll do that then

neither was the maiden

>vitality is essentially just the vanity stat
You need it for the defenses.

Considering this serpent is portrayed as having wings I always assumed it was the angel which visited the maiden.

Why else would they give it angel wings?

The basic 80 pound pledge includes Dancer, Kenan and Kel, Smelter Demon, Pursuer, Alonne, and Armorer Dennis and Sword Master Saber, who might as well be bosses.
You fucked up.

Not that user, another one who didn't back for lack of funds. Just checked and they have a late pledge option, any idea how long those stay open? If it's at least a month or so, I can get it.

Aside from elemental protections, I've not really noticed much difference in the performance of the armour.

Kickstarter Campaign Ends

0 Day - Pledges are charged.
1 Week - Survey sent confirming emails.
1-2 Months - Pledge Manager sent to backers confirming add-on purchases, extras and taking payment for shipping.
1 Month Before Shipping - Pledge Manager deadline - any late confirmations after this deadline will be shipped from the UK after all other pledges are completed and may incur additional cost.

I would guess that you have between one and two months.

VIT itself gives you defense.

I think all the stats do (and usually boost a specific defense or resistance a little more), but it's fairly minor within the levels most people would really pvp

Lewd

At 120 40 VIT is basically standard, and using more than starting VIT is always recommended.

I'm actually just checking this out now, most of the stats will add some defenses, but not nearly as much as Vit, which adds a couple of points each level.

Base defence is 50. Going to 40 VIT gets you up to 67. You get to 87 just for wearing the lightest armor in the game. 116 for both. Seems like you'd get way more investing those points in other stats.

Are you mixing vigor and vitality up? 40 vitality seems like a waste to me.

Rolled 252 (1d1000)

That's because you get a defense penalty for not wearing any armor. 67 is what you get after the penalty is added.

Is Flann ever mentioned in dark souls 3?

To make people try to figure out why there's a crab in the skeleball.

Anyone ever got him to Gwynevere's room?

That's quite a long walk for such little crab legs, any reason you ask about that specific room?

>At 120 40 VIT is basically standard
What? With a fairly generic Quality build you're at SL 108 as Knight (IIRC) once you've got your 27 Vig, 40 End / Dex / Str.

Given the choice between 27 Endurance + 40 Vitality vs 40 Endurance and 27 Vitality I feel like I'd go for the Endurance every time.

People have gotten him to everywhere he can go (certain types of rooms block him out, like boss rooms), and nothing happens. Even down with the fire crabs (he takes almost zero fall damage for some reason, so some people thought that might be deliberate so you can get him down there), nothing happens.

>he hasn't got the ultra secret Crab of Cinder ending

Are they bone, rock, clay?

I'm trying to figure out what it might be that's so abundant, since there have obviously been a great number of pilgrims. Arch Dragon Eggs aren't very numerous I suppose?

I had assumed they were boulders, but they do look pretty shell-like in that pic. Might be onto something with the eggs.

They look like rocks to me. That shit must be heavy as fuck, no wonder they died.

They've got distinct rims, most clearly seen on the one closest to the camera, so they're probably not just broken from a sphere. They're either natural shells, or carved from something. If it weren't for the chains, I'd think they were just a natural part of the Pilgrim biology before they metamorphosize into the Pilgrim Butterflies. Hey, there's wilder theories out there.

Nope.

>Pilgrim Butterflies come from Pilgrims
>just a theory

What's next, the Nameless King is Gwyn's firstborn son or something? Don't make me laugh.

Except Yoel, who is simply too badass to die.

How does the elevator from earthern peak go to the old iron keep

I only covered myself because last time I bought it up with someone they responded with "Fuck off, they come from the hollows turning into trees, retard." on the basis that the wings look kind of like branches.
Which reminds me, I've been wondering if Sulyvhan is related to the pilgrims at all. He also sprouts wings, which every much resemble those of a pilgrim butterfly, and once he does it unlocks his bonus magic abilities, again much like with pilgrim butterflies. I could believe that he's of the same race, but went a different path.
And if you take the Deep and the Abyss to be fundamentally the same thing, or at least strongly related, it'd also make sense for why he was drawn to it as a source for his power via the Church of the Deep, which is theorized to have been twisted and bastardized BY Sulyvhan to seek out and draw from the Deep, whereas before when Aldrich wasn't contained, pacified sludge and actively leading them he was very much against the Deep and sought to survive it rather than harness it.

They're pockmarked in a way that reminds me of sea urchin skeletons.

ill be pretty annoyed if the primordial serpents aren't expanded on in the DLC

also the profaned flame.. in das1 the chaos flame was explained completely yet the profaned flame is just all speculation with very little info

and what is deep exactly, just the the abyss with a cooler name?

>in das1 the chaos flame was explained completely yet the profaned flame is just all speculation with very little info
That's what kinda bugs me about the lore in the games outside 1 and Demon's, those two gave very clear explanations for core shit with lots of room for questions and speculating AROUND them, but so much in 2 and 3 just feels so nebulous.

What was nebulous in DS2 lore?

Wait what happened to Solaire being the first born? I stopped following lore when 2 came out

Solaire was just a realllllllly dedicated Sunbro. Gwyn's firstborn son is the Nameless King, which is the boss of Archdragon Peak.

He was never the firstborn, it was confirmed in an interview, IIRC he was one of the potential contenders early on.

MAN WHAT THE GOOD GODDAMN FUCK IS EITH THE UNTENDED GRAVES
I CLEARED IT AND I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT
JESUS ITS SO CREEPY

It was a pretty solid theory, and made for a nice feel-good story, buddying up with a god stripped of his powers to take down the one who stripped him of those powers. IMO would've been more satisfying than it turning out to be some literal no-one dragonfucker, much as I love his boss fight.

Yeah, it fits so perfectly that I'm quite happy to accept it as a fan-canon, otherwise all that time spent explaining that Solaire's gear is nothing special seems pretty pointless.

On the topic of fan-canon, if the Sunset Knight is some sort of farewell to Solaire it'd make me very happy.

>otherwise all that time spent explaining that Solaire's gear is nothing special seems pretty pointless.
Yeah, that too. They deliberately go out of their way to point out how ordinary his armor is, which is really out of place.
>if the Sunset Knight is some sort of farewell to Solaire it'd make me very happy.
Hodrick? I could believe it by the name. I also feel stupid for only just realizing that his helmet is supposed to be a broken busted Undead Legion helm.

Lame, I missed that whole area because WHO IS SUPPOSED TO KNOW TO USE THE TORSO STONE RIGHT WHERE YOU GET THE DRAGON EMOTE

Confirmed in an interview, you say? Is there anything in the game that supports that or is it just a statement from the devs so people stop speculating?

Fuck I misunderstood, Solaire deconfirmed was the interview statement.

So how do we know that is memeless King?

Nah man the nameless king is actually ornstein dressed in firstborn's clothes after he killed ornstein also his dragon is actually ornstein

Orstein left Anor Londo to find the firstborn, and you find his gear after the fight (though you can get the spear before fighting the king).

I remember it being a statement from Miyazaki himself, just confirming that Gwyn's firstborn doesn't appear in Dark Souls 1.
Unrelated, but I wish they'd kept Andre's original role, made him way more interesting, and would've been a good explanation for why he's still around and doing fine in DS3.

>So how do we know that is memeless King?
>name was stricken from the annals of history
>Nameless King
>gear description all mentions resembling Gwyn
>Swordspear calls him the heir of lightning
Like, it's not even up for reasonable debate, he just is.

Do you think the Emerald Herald was into anal?

Aldia never told us how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie-pop.