/5eg/ Fifth Edition General

They all grab onto you as well, while shoving you prone.

Almost TPK the party by knocking them off the roof of a monastery precariously located atop the edge of a mountain. Luckily, this was an NPC. Unluckily, it was an NPC that was 15 levels higher than us.

Are you running under the assumption that, before their grapple or shove attempt can resolve, you stating "I drop them" causes them to instantly plummet beyond reach of you and negates their action? Because you're a dingus.

It's like you actually can't read.

Glad you brought that up, check out my archer fighter:

Battlemaster fighter
fighting style: archery
maneuver: precision attack
feats: crossbow expert, sharpshooter
20 dexterity

>declare sharpshooter, fire heavy crossbow
>hit: 1d10+15
>miss: roll precision attack superiority die, see above if hit
>declare sharpshooter, fire heavy crossbow
>hit: 1d10+15
>miss: roll precision attack superiority die, see above if hit
>declare sharpshooter, fire heavy crossbow
>hit: 1d10+15
>miss: roll precision attack superiority die, see above if hit
>drop heavy crossbow
>draw hand crossbow
>declare sharpshooter, fire hand crossbow
>hit: 1d6+15
>miss: roll precision attack superiority die, see above if hit
>declare sharpshooter, fire hand crossbow
>hit: 1d6+15
>miss: roll precision attack superiority die, see above if hit

total damage
3d10+2d6+75

minimum total damage
80

mean total damage
100

maximum total damage
117

You don't need to shove. Being grappled reduces movement to zero, which is enough to cause a flying creature to fall. Nothing stops a grappled target from also grappling onto their grappler.

>made a barbarian with magic initiate so I could get find familiar

I chose an octopus and plan for it to stay on my head. How do I keep it hydrated? Most of the travelling is going to be above water.

It's against four creatures. A Battlemaster might have superior single target damage but they're not putting out 20d6 * 4. rolled about average and across all four creatures that's more than double 's maximum.

grapple check action = at least 2 seconds

d=(0.5)*(-10m/s/s)*(2s)^2
d=(0.5)*(-40m)
d=-20 meters
Hmmmm

Stay exhausted from raging so you're constantly sweating.

That isn't RAW though. Neither is grappling four enemies.

Dashing just means you move twice your speed during your move action. Dashing twice does nothing.

> all this quibbling about broken builds and arguments over RAW like it's 3.5 again

So how long until sixth edition?

Also, it's ignoring the upwards velocity they have equal to 2x your movespeed.

fucking lol, this.

should have enough saline quality to sustain it as a marine creature also.

But in all honesty, just take Prestidigitation as one of the cantrips to make it constantly rain on it

>only things that I want to occur in a vacuum do so
If a grapple attempt, which specifies no duration, has a timeframe, so does releasing a target. A dropped enemy who was being hoisted by you has momentum and would not immediately fall to the ground. You also shouldn't bring physics into this when you are a bird man carrying four guys.

>What is relativity?
>hurrr

That's mainly because is a ranged guy, not a Melee Greatsword/Battleaxe (depending on weather he's half-orc or not) with Great Weapon Master. Also he didn't account for critical hits, which falling damage can't do.

except when it's their turn, you aren't moving.

Actually, I'm wrong. I just looked it up and you gain extra movement, so you could dash twice to triple your movespeed.

>A dropped enemy who was being hoisted by you has momentum
Again
>what is relativity? dur hurrr
At most, it has the same momentum as me at the instant I release it. Which means relative to me, it has, at most, 0kg*m/s momentum.
Try again

>You also shouldn't bring physics into this when you are a bird man carrying four guys.
RaW trumps physics in that case. This is Dungeons and Dragons. A world where a person can be stabbed by a dagger more than 100 times and still go about his day.

Then RAW they would get to try to grab you before falling. And you wouldn't be able to grapple 4 people.

Turns are an abstraction of real time combat in 5e. All the turns per round are supposed to take place in the same 6 seconds.

>getting stabbed by a dagger 100 times
HP is an abstraction so getting hit and taking damage from a dagger attack isn't necessarily getting stabbed.

Are you the fellow who is refusing to acknowledge the clause
>"you can release the target whenever you like (no action required)"

>Coolest thing done as a monk

>Derailed a thread.

Obviously that's all monks are good for.

The other guy would use his reaction to grab you.

The dagger can cause damage to the individual more than 100 times and the individual can go about his day like nothing happened.

What feature does he have that allows him to make a grapple check as a reaction?

Except all the damage the dagger did.

While he's being held aloft he holds his action to grab you triggered when you let go of him.

I just don't see

the grapple check is part of the attack action. Since you're moving out of his space (you are flying up), he would get to make an opportunity attack against you.

Also, I'm the guy that doesn't see the relevance of it. You're still within range of the attack, and as has already been mentioned, the turns are an abstraction of time. He can make the attack within time, because it's something he can do in his turn.

Then I don't let go of him until I'm ready to. At that point he has to contest me with 20 strength, expertise, and barbarian rage advantage

Is your aarakocra monk is also a rogue and barbarian? Anyway he still grabs you, he just doesn't grapple you.

>Since you're moving out of his space (you are flying up), he would get to make an opportunity attack against you.
No. You can only take opportunity attacks if the creature uses its movement, action, bonus action, or reaction to move away from your threat range. If I'm dropping him on his turn (no action required) then those conditions are not met.

He is rogue and barbarian but I was just thinking about it now that we're discussing it so openly and I'm figuring he'll take rogue2/barb1/monkx for Slow Fall.

Rolled 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 2, 2, 1, 4, 2, 4, 2, 1, 2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3 = 48 (20d6)

>Anyway he still grabs you, he just doesn't grapple you
Grabbing is exactly what a grapple check is

the movement action takes place at the same time as the attack, since time everything is taking place at the same time ;)

He doesn't have to use his reaction; he's already using his action to attempt to grapple you. You're the one reacting to him, and just because you don't have to use your action to let go doesn't mean his grapple attempt wouldn't be resolved first.

Remember kids: the primary problem with any Uberbuild is that they're universally made by a person with the creative capacity of a Turing machine.

Holy shit all those 1s.

i liked my spidermonk jank build and thought it was somewhat creative. D*:

If you're dropping him during your turn, then you are either ending your turn after dropping him without moving additionally, or else dropping him then spending movement. In the first case, he hangs in mid air until his turn, at which point he can try to grab you before he falls. In the second case, you are voluntarily moving away from him and he gets an opportunity attack.

Instead of just dropping the guy, use your action to shove him 5 ft from you. Then he has nothing to grab ahold of.

>Remember kids: the primary problem with any Uberbuild is that they're universally made by a person with the creative capacity of a Turing machine.
>"I'll prove him wrong by calling him names!"
Okay.

>You're the one reacting to him, and just because you don't have to use your action to let go doesn't mean his grapple attempt wouldn't be resolved first.
>"you can release the target whenever you like (no action required)"
>a grapple check will take at least 2 seconds
>he'll be at least about 20 meters away from me before two seconds are up (a bit less because air resistance)

Kind of MAD though, since you need at least 13 Strength, Dex, and Wisdom. In Point Buy it means you'll have less points for your Constitution/Wisdom or Dex meaning your AC will suffer either way since you need more points. It's also entirely up to GM fiat.

Rolled 1, 4, 1, 2, 1, 1, 6, 5, 3, 5, 6, 4, 1, 6, 6, 6, 5, 2, 3, 1 = 69 (20d6)

>he hangs in mid air until his turn
Right...

>a grapple check will take at least 2 seconds
Quote the PHB on this. Next quote the PHB on where it says disentangling from someone you've grappled doesn't also take 2 seconds.

Ah, yeah. So rogue and barb or monk.

Grappling is like a wrestling pin to reduce someone's movement to zero. Grabbing would just be reaching out and snatching some bit of their clothes or gripping their arm or leg. Not enough to grapple them but enough to hold on to stop from falling.

According to the rules, when does a character in mid-air start falling? It doesn't say, so a reasonable time would be at some point during their turn. Since you can use your action before, after, or during movement, he can try to grab you at the beginning of his turn. If he fails, then he falls.

If I recall correctly (though the sheer glut of shitposts makes it hard), yours was never billed as God-tier.

You aren't waving your Aaracokra around and accusing anybody who doesn't like it off being a rules-lawyering sperglord, so enjoy your Spiderman.

Grapple check requires an action. Once you've expended an action, your turn (6 seconds) is up. I'm pulling the number out of my ass and being generous by making it so low.

>"you can release the target whenever you like (no action required)"
"I'd like to release him now" = instantaneous

Except that's wrong because a pin restrains both targets. See pic related. A grapple in dnd is done with a single hand and you can still walk/move while grappling a target.

you can't grapple 4 creatures and fly upwards with them. You do have a fucking carry limit.

Since you're so fond of screenshots, care to provide caps that state:
- any action I choose to take immediately interrupts that of another creature
- a grapple check explicitly takes 2 seconds

> Y-you can't prove a-anything!
Neither can you.

I thought it was cool too. Druid monk is a sweet combo for sure, although I can't imagine playing it. The Druid capstone just seems like a lot of fun, getting to turn into whatever animal you can think of all the time forever.

Rolled 5, 6, 4, 5, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4, 5, 1, 3, 5, 2, 2, 1, 5, 2, 4, 3 = 63 (20d6)

Lol at the fact that it took the shitposters this long to realize this.

The "four large creatures" bit was just for keks, but the rest of the build does hold. Carry up to four creatures of large or smaller that sum up to a number less than your carry weight.

A grapple subjects the target to the grappled condition. You could still reach out and grab something without grappling it.

> If I cite figures I made up, I can never be wrong
Truly you've set an intellectual standard for us all.

I'd say a Pegasus is a mount for a Lawful Good Paladin, so what would be a sutiable mount for a Chaotic Good Paladin? Or Neutral Good?

>admit that one of the numbers I'm using is coming off the top of my head and can't be substantiated
>you: "HA!!! GOTCHA!!!!"
ok.

> I admitted it, so it's off-limits
Likewise, OK.

Your number is bullshit. a man can reach out and grab someone in an instant if they're fast. The rest of the grapple time is just you resisting, trying to break their grip before they solidify it.

That's why I'd like to see the druid/monk archetype fleshed out. I still think Ki points are the way to limit it. You don't want it to be unlimited at the start, and you don't want it to be too limited at all. Ki points give a nice progression, that also give the monk functionally unlimited transformations at level 20 with the monk capstone.

>Your number is bullshit. a man can reach out and grab someone in an instant if they're fast.
Would you say half a second is fair?

So basically, you can be an aarakocra monk rogue barbarian, grab and grapple someone, dash twice to fly up into the air, and then let go of them. Then on their turn, they can try to grapple you in midair before they fall.

I don't know if it deserves it's own archetype but I don't wouldn't be necessarily disappointed either. I think if the multi class combo captures it well enough than it's better to let it be captured by Multiclass.

There's precedent for it with Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights but Arcane Tricksters (at the very least imo) manage to feel different from a Wizard/Rogue.

I would say the time it takes depends on the level of training and talent which means letting them make an attack roll regardless of any other factors best captures the intricacies of the situation.

Rolled 1, 1, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 2, 5, 4, 2, 4, 2, 4, 2, 6, 3, 4, 3 = 59 (20d6)

I'm disinclined to accept it, but I would probably concede to that being a fair ruling.

Also a fair way to put it.

Although, if they're literally dangling from the aarakocra before they're dropped, and even if they take 0.3 seconds to realize they're falling and attempt a grapple, their outstretched arm will be approximately a meter away from me.

If you're holding someone over the side of a really tall building, the guy won't get to use his reaction to grab you or anything else before he falls and takes damage, so why would he be able to do it when you're flying with him?

That being said, grappling four people is also immensely retarded, so cut that shit out too.

>even if they take 0.3 seconds to realize they're falling and attempt a grapple, their outstretched arm will be approximately a meter away from me.
How do you know they're trying to grapple you before they do it?

What cue are you acting on that compels you to end your grapple and drop them?

In this scenario, the man being hung is making an attempt, and the world's strongest bird is reacting (in the colloquial sense, not using an actual game reaction) by dropping him. So it's a simple test of speed and skill of attack versus reflexes, which to me screams: do a an attack roll versus AC.

Yeah yeah. Interrupts were an archaic Magic mechanic, they've no business in D&D 5e and I don't care how much the other guy whines about it. Bosses can't even interrupt another creature's action with legendary actions, why would joe schmoe loser monk be able to do it?

>B-but muh no action required!

You don't need to use an action to use a broom and sweep the floor either, does that mean you could sweep the entire planet instantaneously? No, of course not.

It's possible mechanically, therefore it doesn't matter how improbable it is thematically. If he rolls and succeeds with his grapple check, he was fast enough to grab you. If he fails, then he wasn't fast enough and start falling.

Good point. It would be heavy rules lawyering but if I was forced to hold my side of the argument, I'd say
>DM says he's going to make a grapple attempt
>"Okay, I drop him"

But I'll concede, there's not really an in universe trigger that would occur that could reliably be used to tell when they will attempt a grapple. But is a creature being lifted like 50 feet into the air in the course of a few seconds really going to be like:
>"Hmm, I'm being grappled and lifted into the air"
>"What condition can I impose on the birdman to reduce his speed to 0?"
>"Ah! Yes, I'll grapple check/shove him!"
>"And I will just take the fall damage"

They'll probably realistically
>wisdom saving throw, fear condition on a fail
>run their mind through "what's on my person, what spells do I have, what can I possibly utilize to not die?"

What you should do it grapple someone, shove them prone for 0 movement and advantage, with them having disadvantage and no way to stand. Then fly up, which doesn't technically get rid of their prone status. Then shove them in midair, which pushes them 5 ft. from you, giving them nothing to grab ahold of on their turn.

On each of their turns they can try to break the grapple or grapple you back, but they have disadvantage and you have advantage, meaning it's pretty unlikely they will succeed. If they do, however, both you and them are grappled in midair and both of you go piledriving into the ground.

My first instinct if I was being lifted into the air would be to fight back in the first 10-20 feet, then to grab on as hard as I can after that.

>>B-but muh no action required!
Literally the rule, dumbass.
>You don't need to use an action to use a broom and sweep the floor either, does that mean you could sweep the entire planet instantaneously?
Holy shit, lol, I never thought someone would come up with an argument this stupid.
>you don't need to use an action to use a broom
>you don't need to use an action to [Use an Object]
Congratulations, you are literally the stupidest person of the thread so far!

Oops, forgot to go back and reply to these.
I'll concede on the enemy not getting to make a grapple check. To combat that though, either go full rogue with Feather Fall from Lvl3 Arcane Trickster or Rogue1/Monkx for Slow Fall.

Human Arcane Trickster Rogue Grappler:
>Grappler Feat
to grant myself advantage

or
>Find Familiar, flying snake, on all of the snake's turns he flies adjacent to the target, takes the Help action, then flies away
to grant myself advantage

The second option sounds much better to me.
Then I can take either an ASI or a half ASI like heavy armor master.

What's people's obsession with grappling? It doesn't even seem that good.

It lets you fly up into the air and drop people i guess?
Nothing stops them from just shanking you with their regular attacks while you waste your turn grappling them.

>Literally the rule, dumbass.
Ok, but they can't do anything on a turn that isn't theirs unless it's a reaction, which it is not by RAW.

Is there any way possible to access the WotC 4e character builder if you no longer have a subscription to D&D Insider? Just got an invite to a 4e game with some friends and want to build something without having to go to my storage unit for my old books.

Unless there's an exception to the rule, which there obviously is. It's like you're being stupid intentionally.

...

Yes, but there's no 4e specific thread and on a Venn diagram of relevant interests there'd be some overlap.

Grappling+shoving prone is a strong combo that any class can do (with varying degrees of effectiveness).

I recommend downloading the 5e rulebooks from the OP's copypasta and play a version of D&D that doesn't need character-building tools more complicated than a paper and pencil.

What are some fun bard tricks? I want to play a trickster jack of all trades character.

If the choice of game was mine to make I would. But as it is I've been invited to a game already in progress and I'm not going to be That Guy who suggests a system change when what they're playing seems to be working for them.

Okay, I'm working on a monastic tradition discussed in this thread and earlier in the last one. The basic idea is monks that pick up fighting styles like "spider-style" or "coyote-style", and instead of fighting in human form, gain the ability to transform into their chosen forms. So a spider-style monk might transform into a giant steeder.

I think I want to structure it like this: the monk picks a style at levels 3, 6,11, and 17. Each style confers a transformation, and a passive benefit that is always active.

Thoughts?

Sounds like it could get sprawling real quick. I was kind of a fan of your (?) proposal to have it essentially be form-limited wild shape, but what you describe sounds like it would unique, per-style rules.

Dunno, maybe I need to see it to believe it.

>would unique
Would require** unique...
I fucked up.

No, that's a good point.

How about this: each level 3/6/11/17 feature grants you an additional transformation form (limits to be determined), and also an addtional passive feature that is the same regardless of transformation.