Let's face it, 40k is a bloated mess. I love it, but it's time for a change. With the recent rumors of a new 'slimmed' down edition, there may be hope for its future. Love or hate Age of Sigmar, there are some things it did right. Lets discuss what would be a good slimming down for 40k. Let's not discuss the possibility of a setting tonal shift or end times 40k, this is strictly from the rules. I seriously doubt they will change the setting up.
Things to change: >upon release of the new edition, all unit entries are put on single page dataslates, for free, released in data slate compendiums >removal of all the USRs from the rulebook and all rules needed for that unit are on the dataslates >armies have a dataslate that covers the special rules unique to the army, as well as wargear and relic tables >change BS and WS values to static ones, WS would be listed simply as 3+, 4+, or 5+, and BS would be listed as 2+ to 6+, and units that normally have a BS higher than 5 would get special rules in their dataslate describing rerolls. Likely this will just be simplified to just getting rerolls in shooting. >overall slimming down of all the rules. There are many that are rarely used but in the book for completion. tank shock, for example, could use a simplification. >unit type benefits are listed as part of their special rules on their dataslates >movement values listed on the dataslate, so you don't need to reference unit types or vehicle special rules to see how much a unit can move
Things to conserve: >points >detachments and formations >strength vs toughness table >turn order and reserves >vehicles from regular units. vehicles should not be treated as big infantry with lots of wounds. Armour values and hull points should remain intact. The vehicle damage chart could be simplified. >flying rules remain >AP remains as is
There's much more, im sure. What would be ideal is a simplification that is somewhere between 40k and AoS. GW knows 40k sales are dropping, and I am betting they would want to make the game easier to get into for new players. To provide a simpler rule system that can always be added to with optional supplements, like Death from the Skies, Apocalypse, etc.
Cooper Cooper
bump for 8th edition discussion/hopes/rage
Michael Gutierrez
>there are some things it did right. Prices?
Blake Bailey
What are you talking about?
Connor Harris
AoS models prices.
Gabriel Hall
I don't see how that's something AoS did right. The model prices are about the same with new 40k model prices. I don't see how it's relevant when discussing 40k 8th edition
Jason Walker
Maybe this and have pre painted/assembled models at current pricings. If not for every model, they should do it for at least the most bought ones (I.e. Tactical Marines, Hormagaunts)
Daniel Wright
prepainted and preassembled would be a fucking terrible idea for gw to implement. They could confidently throw away the 'quality wargames miniatures' mantra out the window. I can think of no way to damage that reputation more. I do not see it happening.
Angel Thompson
40k needs a coherent set of rules. The basic game engine as devised for 3rd is completely functional. The issue is that since liquidating their playtesting groups they have categorically failed to understand why 2nd was thrown out, and are repeating the same mistakes. They are tweaking the engine without any knowledge of why it was built that way, or testing to see if it still runs.
The crazy thing about 40k is that you could explain the core in about 15 pages without reducing complexity at all. The issue is and always has been special rules. Special rules and exceptions are a cancer that needs to be carefully handled to avoid killing the game engine. Special rules need to follow a universal logic to ensure that they all mesh together. GW has NO standardized procedure for making special rules or explaining how they interact. For every page of core rules you'd need 5 trying to state how the exceptions all work.
40k is an extremly streamlined core game with the most byzantine army rules in existence. Don't kill the core. Kill the codex writers.
Andrew Morales
That all sounds fucking awful and what makes Sigmar shit
40k isnt complicated at all once you actually know the fucking rules. Why bring the entire fucking game down to the point where any retard can look at it for half an hour and fully grasp all it's complexity?
The problem with 40k is it isn't fucking balanced between armies. That and a few small things that could use redoing like Vehicle damage and Walkers/MCs
Juan Morris
As an absolute newbie this honestly doesn't sound that bad.
Isn't it mostly just shuffling info and stats around?
Sebastian Barnes
...
Gavin Watson
I can agree to some degree. The core could still use some simplifying, and in doing so the game could become easier to balance. The problem with it is is its so incredibly bloated and disjointed. I get depressed whenever I play other games because they are generally a lot more elegant, which elegance provides its own set of benefits. The codexes do need to be balanced, and I only see that as a possibility when it all happens at once, as in why I said do like what they did in AoS, and do dataslate compendiums for all the armies.
>dur it looks like aos so its all shit You are a moron for failing to see even the good that came out of AoS. Free rules, for one. But as above, when the game is simplified, and not chock full of useless shit as it is now, balancing can become easier.
That really is mostly it. Moving all the special rules and unit type rules onto the dataslates alleviates a lot of book referencing, especially for beginners. With showing WS and BS as a straight up #+ alone will make things quicker, and people won't even miss the old WS table. It's pretty redundant.
>Free rules, for one. Too bad AoS rules is just a bad joke. >But as above, when the game is simplified If game well simplified.
Wyatt Cook
>Too bad AoS rules is just a bad joke. Some of it is. Some of it isn't. If the rumor for a simplification of rules is true, AoS is a good indicator of what simplification means to them. I think they know not to go to the full extent of simplification with 40k as they did fantasy, but some of it is good.
Ayden Roberts
7 is just 6 with minor tweaks, the stronghold Assault and the lords if war supplement rolled up together.
I would expect 8 another minor changes and the airplanes rules in it.
Aaron Rogers
None of it is good, the fact that they're reconsidering the point system and probably CAD back to AoS it's an indicator of how bad things are going for AoS.
Nolan Hernandez
Pretty much this. 3e is very streamlined but all they've done is tack stuff on like named movement brackets (why?), the psychic dicepool phase and pointless duels.
It's cancer, and not in a Veeky Forums slang way, it's harmful uncontrolled growth with no plan. Strip back the game to 3e, slim down the special rule selection because there are just too many and balance and test codices.
Colton Robinson
>None of it is good, Stopped reading there because it's just apparent to me that you are a moron. There is no reasoning with a moron.
Colton Morris
The likely and safe thing to assume is you are right. 8th will just be same as usual as we have been seeing with the previous edition updates, making this game even more needlessly complicated bloated and disjointed than it is.
But some of the rumors (grain of salt I know) say the devs are concerned with how out of control the core rules are getting, and need to slim things down, to make it easier for new players to pick up. I'm not saying the game is impossible to pick up as it is now, but making things easier and more streamlined won't hurt it.
Caleb Bennett
>GW OGLs 8E and becomes an actual plastic dolls company
Christian Mitchell
What are some rules that need to be removed? Let's see if a pattern emerges.
Jaxon Jackson
Hmm, that is an interesting scenario.
The pros of making it an OGL is others with more competence could make a better more balanced game system and set of codeces. The con is rather than having one universally recognized game system for 40k, you could have several that would split up the player base even moreso. RPGs are ok with OGLs but for wargames and tournament scenese I don't see it working.
Charles Brown
Aren't there like several race-specific rules to re-roll to hit when shooting on top of weapons being twin-linked?
Grayson Peterson
Dude tell me what could AoS have that is actually better than fantasy? What I hate the most about AoS us that you can't have any balanced game outside scenarios from the books and I don't want to re enact an historic game, I want a game that would let the players have a game with a coherent structure of points and a CAD that won't let you spam units that weren't meant to be spammed.
Liam Miller
Yes there are some, but the rulebook does at least have a rule that says that you cannot reroll a reroll. But that is a classic case of having a rule to cover another rule, which in a better designed game you wouldnt need that.
Juan Wright
Things that need to be removed: "Toe in cover" this meme needs to die . It was stupid enough that monstrous Creatures got it when they were clearly out in the open. But now the vehicles have it too it needs to be gone. Also have blast templates only wound the models under the template not take the casualties from the front. What kind of idiot thought that made sense?
Brandon Fisher
my group houserules the cover and templates and it works great
