Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

I don't know, look at this one, it already seems like it's working

>porc quality bait

Forsaken should never have stolen ogres place as playable race.

That's why they had to kill him . . .

Hordefag here, I agree on this. Forsaken are a good half of what's wrong with horde today, the other half is not only is thrall a pussywhipped shit, grommash's entire family a shit. Volgin best leader the horde has ever had.

>Paper RPG perspective, vanilla wow setting

If a human paladin strikes down and kills a tauren shaman who is only defending his land, can he use the light to do it?
Is the light bound to moral standards? Is it a thing that works as long as you are convinced you're making the right choice no matter the blood spilled? Or is it something that you can use freely, but stops working if you keep behaving like a total dick?

The Light is bound to a person's personal conviction. If they believe that they are doing Good, then the light will serve them regardless of outside circumstance.

It works as is since the light is based off personal beliefs, also humans don'the acknowledge shit as things worthy of being, hell the alliance still antagonizes the elves on a regular basis, the fact drenai don'the feel the alliance hate train is actually incredible to me.

Can the use of light be "learned", like any other kind of magic, by a mage who thinks he is doing good?

probably with a fuckton of training, seems like a waste of time though, hence why you can only single class in game.

Yeah, didn't want to multiclass myself, just trying to understand the boundaries of it from a strict lore perspective.

Theoretically, but the Light isn't really learned in the same way arcane magic is. You have to have a robust sense of faith to begin with, and then you must have an objectivist sense of right and wrong which isn't something that really fits into the scientifically styled schools of wizardry.

You'd have a difficult time cultivating both skillsets even if you could theoretically harness both. One is a matter of spirituality and devotion and the other is a matter of applied intellect. The Light demands meditation, introspection, and observation of the self while the arcane arts demand study, experimentation, and observation of magical phenomena. Both of them are going to be competing for your time in opposite directions.

Assuming you could learn both, splitting your disciplines would have you wind up being mediocre at both, leaving you very little to show for your effort.

>Volgin best leader the horde has ever had.
I know right, he's got both Thrall's lightning AND Garrosh's nukes!

Is this not contrasting with a religion having some kind of absolute principles?
I mean, the simple "who decides what's the good you're doing, and grants you magical powers", is there an explanation for this?

>inb4 it's a badly written game
I know, but we're here debating, might as well be productive about it and make it better.

>Is this not contrasting with a religion having some kind of absolute principles?
Not really. You are not after all who decides what is right, you believe in an idea greater than yourself and the Light latches on to it.

Although maybe there's more to it since the Light also gives absolution and redemption in some of the events. See cleansing of Sunwell - Liadrin had her convictions - serving her people with power taken from the Naaru by force - before Kael took the Naaru away, but then moved on to being devoted champion of the Naaru herself.

Perhaps that's also how Light works - it IS sentient force with its own goals, but rewards conviction on principle, perhaps with hopes that it will lead it towards itself.

>that what-if Paladin Arthas
It's a shame. I love the concept but making it happen would negate half the plot of WC3, all of TFT, and half of WoW.

I like the idea of Forsaken being a part of the Horde.

You know, old enemies forced into an uncomfortable alliance, that sort of thing. But it's been handled terribly from the very beginning, both in how Forsaken in general act, and how the alliance between orcs and forsaken is handled

I'm more interested in if a Paladin could learn to use Shadow magic. After all, it's one half of priestly magic.

I find it interesting how the Bronze Dragonflight attempts to stay impartial in the face of certain horrific events and must preserve history as it occurred, moreso when they try to convince other mortals to help them do so. Try explaining to a few Lordaeron refugees that the Culling of Stratholme must happen as it did, that Arthas must have his fall from grace and chase Mal'Ganis to Northrend. I imagine there'd be a bit of bargaining involved.
>"You don't have to directly participate in the purging itself. All you have to do is protect Arthas himself from the Scourge and the Infinite Dragonflight."
The Culling of Stratholme was released during Wrath, too, so while everyone had Arthas the Lich King on their mind, some were able to go back and personally witness the beginning of the end for Arthas himself.

Probably not. Paladins are the de facto champions of the Light. By definition they use the Light and it alone as their source of power.

If they used shadow magic they would become something else.

They probably could, but since every paladin is a part of some sort of paladin order, they won't. Because no paladin order allows the use of shadow magic. Except perhaps the blood knights pre-redemption.

Seal of Blood could probably be shadow magic of some kind, now that I think about it. "life for power" is a very "shadowy" concept

Ugh. I detest Vol'jin. Garrosh would have been fine if they didn't decide to turn back and retcon Cataclysm character development. Vol'jin is a fucking infinitely boring Mary Sue of a character who seems like all the teeth were written out of him so he would be the exact opposite of Garrosh.

A tremendous blue pussy.

Vol'jin did nothing at all

And hence is the best Horde leader ever. Horde leader quality is inversely proportionate to how much stuff they do

Vol'jin didn't get an opportunity to truly stretch his chops as Warchief. He's one of the original founding leaders of the New Horde, meaning he shared Thrall's message, and he also happened to be arguably the strongest shadow hunter ever. Vol'jin could've been one of those "take no bullshit" Warchiefs who would've gotten the house back in order after the Horde civil war.

But no, Garrosh and the orcs stole the show AGAIN with Warlords, so we never truly get to see him in action. Now he supposedly dies outright in Legion so that the world gets to experience WARCHIEF SYLVANAS WINDRUNNER.

ONLY A WEEK UNTIL RELEASE IN YUROP

STOKE THE HYPE FELLOW OLD WORLD BROS

PURCHASE EXTRA LARGE BEVERAGES IN HONOUR OF OUR MURIBURGER FRIENDS

In regards to this:
Trailer related, 0:50 seconds in, we get to see the globe of azeroth.
youtu.be/WxL3ryE23lo?t=50s

It looks remarkably different from the game world map.

Thoughts?

I think it is odd, seeing how expecially with the chronicles we have a very well defined source material on Azeroth's geography.

under the assumption that a re-launch of the setting could be inbound, I guess you could interpret this as a possible hint of the reworks.

>WARCHIEF SYLVANAS WINDRUNNER
You can tell I'm a Warcraft veteran because I have absolutely no idea if you're serious or not.

This is dead serious. Vol'jin goes MIA on the Broken Shore, and so the Dark Lady becomes the new Warchief.

>>WARCHIEF SYLVANAS WINDRUNNER

Ok last I checked, wouldn't a cursory examination have proven that she was trying to kill all her allies?

>Thrall retired to become the World Shaman
>Cairne is dead
>Vol'jin is MIA/supposedly dead
All three original leaders of the New Horde are indisposed. By right of overall seniority, Sylvanas is the new Warchief.

Or something.

She's also a terrible leader who's betrayed her own ideals and has consistently screwed herself over by trusting the wrong people

The one thing I can agree on with pretty much everyone as a fan of Cataclysm Garrosh and Thrall from WC3 is that the only thing worse than the ending of MoP was WoD.

speaking of Gilneas, what even happened to it from MoP onwards?

did it all get plaguebombed to shit?

I'm not even mad. I'm hopeful because I'm a fool. I remember being like "lol wtf?" when Garrosh became Warchief. But he had some character growth in Wrath that was decent, and Cataclysm sold me on him as a character with potential.

Sylvanas is kind of where Garrosh was after Wrath. Nobody likes her and she looks like an irredeemable idiot monster. So part of me hopes what was one of my favorite WC3 characters actually gets to where she should have always been.

Also, her arc has just been, for the past 10 years, EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL, so my hope is that the only way for her to go is somewhere else.

I'm with you desu

Although if it's true that they made Tyrande meek in response to horde whining about one of alliance leaders being rude towards them, my hopes are not high.

The issue is that she's had ten years to work on it.

>Also, her arc has just been, for the past 10 years, EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL, so my hope is that the only way for her to go is somewhere else.
How could've you forgotten the
>IM DEAD BEING DEAD SUCKS OH WOE IS ME LICH KING WILL PAY FOR THIS MUH REVENGE WE HUNGA FOR VENGEANCE
plot line?
I've always liked this guy's attitude towards undeath though
>yeah this sorta sucks but at least I'n not a fucking furry

Because Sylvanas and the Forsaken finally got their vengeance in Wrath.

She still whined about the burdens of being an undead in the cata questline where she takes you for a ride till Silverpine. She's angsty, that's just a part of her character.

And now Sylvanas has turned to much more selfish pursuits, now that she knows what exactly is waiting for her on the other side of death.

The Forsaken post-Wrath were in the same position as the blood elves post-TBC.
>We just completed our defining story arc
>Shit, what do we do now?
In the Forsaken's case, it was using the val'kyr to boost their numbers and maintain EK dominance via biological warfare.

I really do kind of want her to be a raid boss

Really, the moment she started raising her own undead is the exact moment that every Forsaken should have turned on her

If they can't cure undeath, then at least they can shoot for self-preservation. If they want self-preservation, they need to boost their numbers.
That's Sylvanas's excuse.

By doing exactly what made them all hate the Lich King so much.

I don't think they could, since being a paladin is indissolubly chained to the light. I guess they wouldn't even want to try and learn about it, since they undergo a very strict training before becoming a paladin, that goes through meditation, introspection and other self-betterment paths just to try and understand what it's "the altruism and self sacrifice" on which the whole light thing is based.

No, but you can if you pay a fev bucks to Blizzard.

As light worship goes, priests are lower on the totem pole than paladins. It's why fewer races can be paladins than priests.

At the point when you are being GOVERNED by an elf and a different group of elves make up a good amount of your population, I think you've lost the ability to call yourself 'The horde'

>I guess they wouldn't even want to try and learn about it

Yeah, I guess Warcraft paladins are above trying to gain access to dark powers for what they consider the greater good.

True.
ORC PRIDE WORLD WIDE.
GARROSH WAS RIGHT.
ROLL THE TROLL.
SHELF THE ELF.

I really don't get why the Horde is so culturally Second War.

Literally only the Orcs took part in it on the Horde side. Wrong group of trolls, Tauren are new and the Blood Elves/Undead fought on the Alliance side of it.

At this point, it feels like it should be culturally more of a mish-mash. Or at least have architecture better than what the Orcs are doing a lot of the time.

Because Kosak likes WC2 a lot

That's it, no other reason.

Pretty much everything the Horde has done from Cata onwards boils down to "because Kosak likes WC2 a lot"

Orcs enforce their will on the weaker races.
They don't buy into multi-culti bullshit.

The difference is that the blood elves went more or less on hiatus until Mists, and then when they started doing shit again they actually had decent writing. Lor'themar went from a total nobody to probably my favourite Horde leader.

What did Lor'thermar do, exactly?

Blood Elves have actually maintained a good presence post TBC.
The Sunreavers in Wrath.
The Reliquary and Zul'Aman buisiness in Cata.

I think Lor'Thjemar suddenly becoming an interesting character is mostly due to In the Shadow of the Sun being such a great and character-defining short story

>Reliquary
What happened to Reliquary in WoD? Did Blizz forgot they exist?
Or did Horde just whined that Alliance gets Indy and they don't so now explorer's league emissary appears in horde garrison?

Belloc is in Ashran, why he doesn't show up in the Garrison I don't know, just WoD laziness I assume.

You know, if your faith in what you're doing and in the tools you have is strong, you don't need to sway off track from what you believe is right. Maybe, the only thing you need is to believe HARDER. And you damn do, because your faith is strong.

How many paladins did you know that became arcanists to shoot fireballs?
Or must they only refer to dark powers, because "fall from grace trope"?

Also, if in your game there are so many paladins who justify getting power "for the greater good", Arthas notwithstanding, I guess they are not called paladins anymore. They are death knights, black guards, champions of the darkness, and whatever other things you find on heavy metal cover pictures.

I'm calling it now, the only reason they're setting Sylvanas up to be Watching is because they're setting up Glenn Greymane to be the new leader of the Alliance, and the two hate one another so much it will be a perfect excuse to have the Horde and the Alliance be at open war with one another again.

>Watching
Warchief, fuck you auto-correct.

I guess what you find in the game as "priest" is whatever cleric the religion of that race/culture has. Thus for example NElf priests are priests of Elune.
This does overlap with shamans for the horde though, maybe they are clerics of some kind of "ancestor worship".

As a horde fag I Fucking hate sylvannas so much, she's gonna kill the horde much faster then garrosh ever could and this is simply because blizzard corporate Fucking loves the alliance, no ands it's or buts.

It's less what he did, more his personality. He's a fighter stuck in the job of a buraeucrat and hates it, but still does it to the best of his ability because he has a sense of responsibility. He's the only Horde leader who chooses his actions based on what's best for his people, rather than his personal principles or ambitions . At the same time, he fucking relishes it when he gets to visit the front lines, like on Thunder Isle. He doesn't oppose the Alliance because "for teh Horde lolz", but because Dalaran is holding hundreds of his people captive without trial, which is a legit reason to be upset with someone.

Basically, I like him because he acts like an actual person with a personality rather than a plot-robot or racial stereotype, which makes him a rarity in WoW. Being voiced by Gideon Emery helps too.

Blood elves have the best voice actors in general

hell, the generic male blood elf is voice by Cam Clarke

pretty much this.
as a goblin shaman i'm jelly as fuck.
it also doesn't help i'm masochistic as almighty shit, because i keep playing this crap, no seriously:
>goblin story sucks, their leader is literally ramsay bolton from GoT
>shamans just keep getting nerfed forever and ever and ever

Not exactly. It's very clear in Deathknell, if not in Silverpine, that Sylvanas is raising free willed undead. Whether or not her later actions bear this out is debatable, but at least in the opening Deathknell area there are plenty of undead who are horrified or morally object to their unlike and make the choice to return to death. Others just hate Sylvanas and refuse to work with her.

/watch?v=B2GXFglTNTI

Unlife. Fuck you autocorrect

I think something is wrong with wowhead's model viewer.

>belloq

Wow.

Cute draenei confirmed.

Too bad they will probably only appear briefly to show how monstrous fel horde is.

Why has no one considered the possibility that the Vol'jin pyre is fake and we later on found out he faked his death to go do shadow hunter things? I feel like Sylvanas as warchief is a temporary thing, and that's coming from someone who always plays as undead

Pretty sure this is the case.

People have considered it (it was the first thing I thought when I saw the screenshots), it's just that killing off Vol'jin out of the blue so that Sylvanas can become Warchief seems exactly like the kind of thing Kosak would do.

>space goats
>not based broken
Another dumb shit wow did with the lore.

I, too, want to believe.

>blizzard
>not run by hackjobs
pick only one.

broken are shit.

Is it the Warcraft hipster thing to prefer the Broken to the modern draenei?

Akama pls

They were the original draenei before the idiotic Eredar retcons.

Broken didn't even exist until the retcon, the Warcraft 3 draenei were Lost Ones.

Broken and Lost Ones are pretty cool, but they're cool in the context of the overall draenei lore. Pre-retcon draenei didn't exactly have a lot of personality.

>female draenei have tentacles on the back of their heads
>male ones have tentacles on their chins

They are semi sexual organs. Draenei naturally do it from behind so they can hold tentacles

What was the reason for the change ? Were the lost ones too ugly ? Hell, if people play horde people could play as a lost one.

>male draenei have bone plates for foreheads
>female draenei's split into horns
sexual dimorphism is a thing, and considering the naga, it's hardly the weirdest instance in Warcraft

It's not hipster thing, it's the grognard thing.

Male Draenei can have horns, too. It's just the females that got all the variety.

can they in game? I can't remember