Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Both of you are terrible human beings

Anywho I was thinking about this the other day, anyone have a homebrew 40k space marine chapter that is organized like a legion? Obviously not numerically because you'd have to be one hell of a special snowflake to try to get away with that shit.
I just think it'd be interesting to see Space marine armies using the HH army list, but with more "modern" marks of equipment, and with color schemes outside the usual legions and shit. I thought about making a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists that longed for the good old days and kicked the heavy weapons guys out of their Tac squads and gave them some flags instead, they also found some dusty old suspensor webs held together with duct tape in their basement. but I got too many armies as is.

>AP2 stench
How many air fresheners would be needed to defend against that?

word bearer gay spotted

All of them.

I have a rather trivial question. Why did One Punch Lion Man decide to make his legion's colors black? I'm curious on just why the legions got their colors, and if there's a fluff reason for it.

The First Legion was black to begin with. Coincidentally, the Order of knights that the Lion ended up leading and taking over Caliban with also happened to wear black armour.

Aesthetically, the major changes that occurred after the reunion was the Dark Angels adopting the Order's tabards and some of their esoteric markings.

>The First Legion was black to begin with. Coincidentally, the Order of knights that the Lion ended up leading and taking over Caliban with also happened to wear black armour.
The Lion must have been happy to know he wouldn't have to waste time finding a new paint job.

I think a better question is why Angron turned the World Eaters from the grey metal/gold (?) to white and blue. Not exactly the most aggressive colors, or is it just to see bloodstains better?

>Not exactly the most aggressive colors,
Blue and white are calming colors but white is the color of death in some cultures.
>or is it just to see bloodstains better?
Somehow I bet that was the case.

The Warhounds wore blue/white before Angron had been found, they reverted the scheme after becoming the World Eaters. As to the origin of both schemes, Alan Bligh is probably the man to come up with the best explanation.

You said nothing. The question was "Why did Angron inverted the Warhound's color scheme?", especially considered that He didn't care about that nonsense.

Angron probably was lazy and wanted to do something quick.

>I think a better question is why Angron turned the World Eaters from the grey metal/gold (?) to white and blue
I said the Warhounds weren't gray by the time Angron was found.

But he added the gold part (which was actually bronze), so I assumed he thought the blue was grey. But yeah, I guess you're right. Still, that scheme was nice, and I don't know why he changed it (maybe he didn't like they resembled the Ultramarines not even a bit?). I shall paint my vidya marine that way, I have used the Dusk raider scheme long enough.

Blue and white is soothing like the sky, in a terrible attempt at not triggering the WE.

Someone talked about WE techmarines deliberately using bad feng shui on the inside of outgoing transports to induce a killing frenzy on the soon to disembark marines.

Hey guys, I'm just starting to get into the HH tabletop and I was reading the rulebooks. I'm doing World Eater, mainly because their color is fun to look at and I played Khorne back in 40k a few years back. But what kinds of armies can you do with World Eaters? It seems the best things are just throwing squads into spartans and land raider and driving across the board, very one dimensional really.

Anyone have ideas for alternate World Eater lists to help a newfag out?

Dreadclaws are fun for World Eaters too. Shove some Red Butchers in one, two if you're sassy, drop them right in position to fuck shit up. Meanwhile there's a spartan coming with a murder squad to clean up.

>very one dimensional really
Well... World Eaters. Flexibility and tactical creativity are not their strengths.

I'm sorry, you chose the dullest legion to play.

You can also use assault squads even if they are expensive, and using spartans if you have one is always a better idea then using a land raider

Also, since none of your shooty units get any benefit from your LA rules you could use armour, skimmers preds vindicators and the line for your fire support

All true, but horde World Eaters appeal to me the most.

Well if you want to not be a bitch there is the Loyalist World Eater way...

Get Motherfucking Endryd Haar, he makes 3 power armor units scouting and unpinnable. You will also be playing the manliest fucker in the entire HH.

Grab bike or jetbike squads and a full assault squad.
Take a Primaris Medica and throw him in the assault squad.

Your core is now an insanely fast, and resilient, close combat rape machine that becomes insane when it reaches the enemies side of the board(fun fact, that will be turn two).

Fill the rest of the list with 2 drop pods with troops, and two Leviathans in pods.

So turn one your opponent will have 2 Bike/Jetbike squads, a crazy assault squad, and 2 leviathans right in their face. Fuck them and their target priority you win that fight any day of the week if they didnt bring a titan.

>Well if you want to not be a bitch there is the Loyalist World Eater way...

>Loyalist World Eaters
>Not the biggest bitches
>Don't even get the option to take blood madness

I like to think EC's colours was to have a semblance of the roman praetorian guard. Fits them so well

The get that Super apothecary character, inductee up three full squads of tacticals, get some dreadclaws with butchers and run the red wake

Scoring is for pussies, claim victory over your opponents butchered bodies or not at all

>Mfw I have 20 bikes and 7 Dickbikes, 6 1st Legion Upgrade torsos, and a Mk4 Weapon kit at my doorstep right now
Speaking of which, can I make a CAD with a rite of war, and make another CAD that isn't an ally? I want to Ravenwing, but also want a Typhon.

>can I make a CAD with a rite of war, and make another CAD that isn't an ally?

No and theyre called Force Organization Charts, the CAD is the BRB FOC, you'll most likely be using the Age of Darkness of which you only get one unless you're playing Apocalypse at which point its literally unbound.

With last thread post about Luna Wolves and the Pale Nomads, I think this picture is fairly fitting for a shattered Legion army. Luna Wolves and Pale Nomads wrecking traitor face is best

It was Space Wolves not Moon Wolves.

Do Auspexes exist in 30k?
Is it kosher to model a regular tactical marine holding one, or will people just confuse him for a Master of Signals?

?

...

It's Wolf Wolfs not Moon Moons

No it was Luna Wolves, I was the guy asking about it.

Also , I like that picture. Did not know that.

Yes, they exist.

I'm still not following? I'm simply pointing out how the Luna Wolves and Pale Nomads worked together early crusade and how cool it would be to have them come back as a shattered Legion army. The pic I posted is more in reference to how they acted with one another

It just the internet messing with you at this point. You're right.

My mistake. I thought he was talking about the time where Leman stepped in to stop a fight between Corvus and Big Daddy Pert.

>meant to refer to the time
Fixed.

That would be one hell of a clash in styles.
>I HAVE FORTIFIED THIS POSITION! TRY GETTING IN NOW!
>But I am already inside.

Anyway, did any primarch manage NOT get into a slappy fight with a brother prior to the heresy? Based Sang the man maybe?

Sanguinius is pretty much the only one I can think of. But I have a feeling that will change by the time we get the full FW write-up of the Blood Angels.

fuck right off

I don't remember Ferrus getting into a fight before the Heresy.

I am a new Sons player in desperate need of some topknots. However the only thing I can find are the White Scar helmets.
Even the 3rd party suppliers seem to lack them.
Anybody know of any good hair sources?

IIRC it is outright stated somewhere that the EC got their colours well before finding Fulgrim. They got their colours specifically because their understrength legion was often used as bodyguards for dignitaries.

ebay.com/itm/40K-Ork-Nobz-Top-Knot-Bits-4-Bits-/381639930254?hash=item58db83318e:g:6hwAAOSwf05XO3I0

Everyone likes to spam this in 30k and 40k generals but nobody likes to play them IRL :(

>But I am already inside.
Its funny because when Corax actually was involved with a siege with other primarchs involved his strategy was "I'll lure them out of their fortress and then you can attack." Yes Corax, soldiers are going to leave a well defended fortress to chase down super soldiers from a legion known for stealth and ambushing. Eventually Horus outright ordered him to just attack the fucking fortress. Seriously, Corax is tactical and shit but he has no flexibility.

>Ork Nobz

Much obliged user.

>often used as bodyguards for dignitaries.
Neat, so praetorian guard isnt that far off.

Do you happen to know the source that says this ?

I think its book 1 of the HH series but I'm not sure. Mostly remember the battles like fighting the living crystals and some EC commander getting butthurt despite constant praise because people thought he needed reinforcements.

I think he might have wanted to try to flank or do some kind of infiltration while the others distracted the defenders.

No matter what his plan was, it was guaranteed to be better than "HEY, THROW YOUR STEALTH GUYS AT THE GATES AS IF THEY WERE FRONTLINE GUYS"

I use the Chaos Space Marines ones

I do

The Gate incident if I'm remembering it right. Ended up throwing his Terran marines at the s because they wanted Corax to follow Horus's lead while he kept that his legion was being misused.

With you, me, and that other guy, that makes three of us in total!

Huzzah!

Not really. You don't outflank a fort, you can't lure guys out of a fortress, and unless your opponent is retarded you aren't infiltrating into a fortress. The best Corax could have hoped for was infiltration assault (pretty much storm troopers during WW1) but since he has no flexibility he decided to just throw the guys he hated into the meat grinder.

There is a reason Perturabo was the go to siege guy instead of Corax or Alpharius. Siege work and trench warfare aren't subtle, there are numerous interesting approaches to overcoming defences but they are all still ultimately costly.

>you aren't infiltrating into a fortress
Even Snake can do it, why wouldn't Corax I-use-actual-magic-to-infiltrate and his similarly gifted sons be able to? It wouldn't be an isolated scenario: didn't Mortarion managed to sneak to the very throne room?

Or he could have had the Deliverers do a deep strike attack, instead of throwing them to the wall. In fact, given how the Raven's terran vets battled alongside the Luna wolves for so much time and pioneered the use of termie armour along them, that's what Corax should have done. He deliberately wanted them dead.

>Alpharius can't siege
Paramar was barely a victory due to Dynat blowing up things more than necessary.

>you can't lure guys out of a fortress
Sounds like memepharius and all, but on Fear to Tread the AL makes orks flee, suicidally so. Honest question, what the hell did he do to those orks?

>what the hell did he do to those orks?
He showed them the 7e Ork codex.

...

>Even Snake can do it, why wouldn't Corax I-use-actual-magic-to-infiltrate and his similarly gifted sons be able to? It wouldn't be an isolated scenario: didn't Mortarion managed to sneak to the very throne room?
So Corax is going to solo the entire fortress? Or can the entire Raven Guard legion also shadow walk or whatever?

At the end of the day people have to die on your side unless you want to wait days, weeks, months, or years to overwhelm a fortress. Even deepstriking isn't perfect, what if the enemy had massive amounts of anti-air? The same reason If breaking sieges was as easy as just being sneaky the battles of Stalingrad, Leningrad, Przemysl, and Verdun (Verdun and Stalingrad could be easily resupplied, Leningrad and Przemysl were completely encircled for long periods of time) would have been over much faster for the victor. The fact of the matter is that even in modern warfare defeating a well entrenched enemy is much harder than just sneaking up behind them.

He read to them the stats, compared them to other more better off codices, forced them to read, but not before explaining to them how the current edition is treating them. The Orks slowly had their life forces drained, and absorbed by Alpharius.

It's worked before. At the Hells Anvil, the Terran XIX did exactly that.

Fort defense isn't always just 'stay on the walls and let them knock'. Thats the last resort. There will be defenses before the walls that are composed of troops, field artillery, armoured elements, and the like. Most forts aren't just enemy-walls-juicy interrior.

Corax proposed he pull away what elements he could so that the other legions could knock the door down with less opposition rather than Horus's plan of 'send all your dudes that excel in special ops to choke the gun barrels rather than the other present legions who do that for a living'.

>Honest question, what the hell did he do to those orks?
He performed >squad broken on them.

>Corax thinks he's above the meat grinder

What a fag.

>Or can the entire Raven Guard legion also shadow walk or whatever?
Some.
'ave a giggle, m8

>Even deepstriking isn't perfect, what if the enemy had massive amounts of anti-air?
You know that teleportation makes you appear from thin air, right?

>The fact of the matter is that even in modern warfare defeating a well entrenched enemy is much harder than just sneaking up behind them.
Don't trie to make 30k make sense. Otherwise you'd realize that siege warfare became obsolete long ago due because the fort-building couldn't keep up with the improvements of weaponry and mobility, meaning forts as such could be either bypassed or demolished from long range, like with bombers and missiles.
"Fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man" - George S. Patton
This is the setting where teleporting men with axes are a menace, let's leave it at that.
.

The elite squads from Corax's planet can also turn into shadows somehow.

The Mor Deythan can

Also, in modern warfare sieges are inexistent, and Leningrad was actually city-fighting. Both the Sigfried and Maginot lines, nice defensive line projects, became useless since the beginning of WW2.

It's because he's not tough enough for grinders

Corax goes in, and chills out waiting around till nightfall, when he goes up to a isolated section of wall, quietly murders everyone there, throws down some ropes, and has his legion climb up and start murdering the enemy in their beds.

Void shields help resist artillery though.

>Corax proposed he pull away what elements he could

>Yeah guys I'll dance around in front of the fortress for a few days and maybe get a couple guys to follow me and you can attack them
The enemy has literally zero reason to pursue Corax. If they are in a fortified position than they clearly realize that the open field is a bad place to be. Following Corax even if he feigns weakness is stupid.

>Some
Enough to overwhelm the fortress alone? Great I guess Horus can take his legion and leave he is clearly not needed there.

>You know that teleportation makes you appear from thin air, right?
Teleportation isn't used en masse. Regardless given Horus' love of teleporting right into the heart of the enemy there is probably a really good reason his core strategy wasn't just "teleport right into the middle of the city and start killing things."

>Also, in modern warfare sieges are inexistent, and Leningrad was actually city-fighting. Both the Sigfried and Maginot lines, nice defensive line projects, became useless since the beginning of WW2.
A city is a type of fortified position and the Maginot line was never breached, simply bypassed because the French never built it all the way to the channel due to politics between France and Belgium. Beyond that Kursk involved the Germans attacking a well entrenched Soviet position and suffering horrific losses for next to no gain. A fortress doesn't need to be a stone and concrete castle with high walls and bunkers. Any position that gives men sufficient cover is a fortress, Monte Cassino was a fortress, even after the allies bombarded it to hell the Germans still held it for four months.

>Corax is a bitch who can't fight in a meat grinder
What a pussy.

Bikes, everyone forgets bikers forgets

You guys ever create custom characters? In my group we each made a custom HQ (Everyone has to approve of the rules before you can play it). We decided to be a bit more loose than the HH character creation rules since we all play for fun

So far we have:
>An Iron Hands Contemptor Techmarine
>A SoH/LW Jump captain that's ALWAYS ANGRY
>A Dark Angels Jetbike Chaplain that goes extra fast
>And a Iron Warriors super Siege Breaker

Either overload the shields with massed ordnance or teleport inside. What happened on Gate 42? Sounds as if Corax sent his boys to bring the gate down by punching it repeatedly.

>Teleportation isn't used en masse. Regardless given Horus' love of teleporting right into the heart of the enemy there is probably a really good reason his core strategy wasn't just "teleport right into the middle of the city and start killing things."
That's actually Abaddon's and Horus' core strategy. In fact THAT'S HOW HORUS KILLS ULLANOR'S BOSS: by bypassing the front line with his Justaering using a teleport, which earns him the title of 'Warmaster'. And considering the terran vets were under Horus' wing more time than under Corax's, I imagined a teleport attack would have been more prudent (along with other elements, of course).

>A city is a type of fortified position
In a way, yes, protecting against small arms, not against cannons (but a voidshield fixes that). What makes cityfight dangerous is that the atackers are prone to ambushes, and that cities cannot be flattened anymore because weapons of mass destruction are banned and carpet bombing isn't a thing anymore (even then, Stalingrad's casualties weren't the result of a siege, but of the cityfight over the rubble that had been the city, after it was bombed to hell). Not even bunkers are safe anymore, since the invention of bunker-buster bombs.

>Teleportation isn't used en masse.

The Nicor is a Raven Guard ship. Just saying.

If you don't know what that implies or is referring to, then you should probably stop talking about RG shit and teleportation.

Its a common tactic to draw away defenders or make them shift position within the fortifications. Even if they don't pursue far, or just shift to other parts of the fort that means enemy elements out of position.

Examples of that happen within that very book

>Besieging Gate 42
WHY DON'T WE JUST RAM IT WITH A STARSHIP, PARDNER? A BOARDING ACTION!

I appreciate this is probably a very dumb question (I haven't played in forever and didn't play much even when I did), but can artillery fire on a given point rather than a target unit?

I'm thinking for two reasons - everyone's favourite dangerous terrain generator, phosphex, and for hitting close to a combat (that you're either losing or more able to weather the fire than the enemy) with the intention to scatter into it.

>not against cannons

Then how can you have cities that have been bombed to shit with artillery and guns, and still resist the enemy? Yes, a cannon can blow up a building's wall, but until you reduce the building to a pile lower than chest height, it's gonna provide cover. And cover is good as any. If the enemy can't see you, they can't effectively target you.

Take for example Pavlov's House:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlov's_House
Soviets defended it for two months against Germans with tanks.

>carpet bombing isn't a thing anymore

They carpet bombed the Taliban in Afghanistan. B52 and shit.

>but can artillery fire on a given point rather than a target unit?

That'd be cool I guess but no you cant, it has to be centered on a base or touching a model in case of models with no base.

The Maginot Line was extended behind Belgium after a diplomatic mess in the mid '30s, but that didn't leave much time. More importantly, Gamelin still thought the Ardennes would serve as an impenetrable fortress on their own, and groundwater in the whole area (next to the Low Countries, after all) made construction difficult. And France thought that fighting in Belgium would be acceptable; they didn't see it as a bad thing if the line forced the Germans to go through Belgium again. It's not like there was any way for them to get cut off or anything...

You're thinking of Stalingrad, not Leningrad. Hitler besieged the latter and just let it starve, because he didn't seem to actually need the city. Ugly in its own way. My great uncle was there on the German side, in the Spanish Blue Division. He said it sometimes got too cold for rifles to work and they'd just lob grenades at each other until closing to hand to hand. Fun times.

But void shields changes everything. 30k/40k really depends on defensive measures being better than ours are, otherwise there's no reason to get in up close.

>Take for example Pavlov's House
Where were the Stukas?
Sounds like a job for teleporting 2+ save troops :^)
Yep, should have written Stalingrad, srry.

reminder

There's 1 thing that can, it's either Warlord Titan or the Tzeentch Daemon Lord. But that's it.

Space Marines do get recruited at that age...