Pathfinder General

Let's do something better.

I'm not lucid enough right now to make a statblock for a Desperado Gunslinger with Riven Hourglass / Time Mystery Oracle / Battle Templar.

To be honest, I question the design decisions of including any caster classes after Wizard and Magus when they can pretty much do everything you want already. Or maybe I'm just bad at min-maxing and can't figure out how to make a witch that isn't an inferior wizard or a sorcerer that isn't just a wizard with a slightly altered spell mechanic and useless bloodline baggage I don't need most of the time.

The hell is this?

I am a massive homufag but what the fuck.

d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes---paizo-inc/magical-child

I guess the PSRD removed the imagine, but if you buy the physical copy, that's the picture that appears by this class.

>I don't like spontanious casting
that doesn't mean it's not good. especially if you play in a game where the number of spells matters in a fight instead of being 1-3 rounds of prep then the wizard wins the encounter

I like Spontaneous casting, but I can't help but sorta feel like it would have been better off as an archetype or something and not getting bogged down in bloodline baggage that is nowhere near worth the wizard features you give up.

Don't see it. I see people universally bitching about the nerfs.

Even the Paizo forums are filled with angry people. Paizo dun fucked up.

Wait. What the FUCK did they do to the Ring of Ferocious Action?!

The fuck?

Look for Florian's posts there fampai.

>>nowhere near worth
I very much disagree. the wizard feats just aren't that important compared to the school powers. thats what actually makes wizards a good class on top of the flexability. the arcanas are superior in scope most of the time though, and while like all things in paizoland theres a rollercoaster of quality, arcanas allow for blasters to be viable, they allow for you to ignore certain immunities, they allow you to get bonuses you simply can't find elsewhere in the game.

There is something to be said about not playing a sorcerer because if you want bloodlines you can buy them with feats, but its one of the best arcane spontaneous casters for filling a specialized role. The only school that is "be a wizard always" is Illusionist.

What are some good medium/small humanoid race for Skinshaper Druid to change into?

d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/skinshaper-druid-archetype

Kasatha seem like a given for 4 arms (along with free IUS). Hybrid lycanthrope can help with utility.

Spells per day/Prepared Spells is an awful mechanic that slows the entire game down. To be honest, when I GM I just give my players a pool of "mana points" equal to the levels of all their spell slots added together and let them spontaneously cast everything, regardless of what caster class they're playing.
Although I somewhat balance it out by saying wizards can only learn spells above level 2 in their chosen Specialty School and Sorcerors/Witches can only learn spells that match the "theme" of their bloodline or Patron.

Am I a shit GM? It hasn't caused any problems so far, but nobody in my group really knows what they're doing. I feel like experienced players could tear me apart.

>Erratta'd Ring:
>This ring allows its wearer to persevere through physical or mental trauma that hampers his actions. Once per day, when the
wearer gains the staggered condition from an enemy’s attack, she can ignore that condition for up to 5 rounds. This does not prevent her from gaining the staggered condition again, and it doesn’t protect her if she gained
the staggered condition multiple times.

I wouldn't say this is shit, but i definitely wouldn't play either of those classes in your game since A: clerics get to ignore it, B: I rarely ever build single dimension characters anyway.

I'm also assuming you banned the universalist, if you didn't and they get to learn any spell of any level at all times while the others are stuck at 2 then you are unfortunately a shit DM

I'm probably a huge faggot for saying this, but I think casters should have to specialise, and specialise hard. A giant spell list full of problem solving annoys me.

Like, 2E spherecasting and no generalist wizards. You have your two, MAYBE three known schools. Choose wisely.

Have you looked at Spheres? It's pretty cool and operates off a spell point system.

Also makes people have to actually focus on what they want to do, rather than being able to take their first ever spell in a school they've never touched and still be as good as a guy that's been using that school since level 1.

As the progenitor of the Pounce Hunter, Pounce Inquisitor build (Stick Together + RoFA), I am fucking livid. My peripheral vision actually went blank for a moment and felt an anger akin to seeing hitler murdering my cat with a dildo.

I mean... they're not wrong. Once you get used to the system, there are optimal choices. He's just got it backwards. You should dethrone optimal items by making ones that are on-par with them for differing builds, rather than just nerfing everything.

spontanious casters already don't have a shit ton of options and an infinite toolkit. being able to choose non awful spells or thematically appropriate ones is basically vital for them to combare to other casters to begin with but even assuming you nerf it to be viable, all of your casters are going to fucking ignore 50-70% of schools that exist if you do this.

Don't know if you were the progenitor, I've been doing that for a while. But yeah, it's so bad I can't even find words.

>You should dethrone optimal items by making ones that are on-par with them for differing builds, rather than just nerfing everything.

Unfortunately this is PRECISELY how Paizo "balances" a game. Not by making things better, but by destroying everything and salting the earth.

I notice they did this with a few things.

Things which had like, variable durations or uses turned into 1/day items that make them not so worth it.

I mean fuck. I could DEAL with the Recon Gloves being cut down to 5 feet. 5 feet is still a good distance, enough to look through most normal walls and doors.

But cutting it from 10 rounds total per day to be used as you see fit to 10 rounds, once per day is fucking asinine.

When do you need to look through a single wall for ten fucking rounds? That's long enough for it to be wasted on actual recon, and too short for spying.

No shit Sherlock.

I'm just pointing out that the guy isn't completely wrong, and he's not 100% defending Paizo. Pretty much everyone agrees these rules are horseshit.

For one brief moment the hearts of fa/tg/uys, GitP Autists, and Paidrones are all beating as one. The hatred is uniting us.

that would make it even better

>For one brief moment the hearts of fa/tg/uys, GitP Autists, and Paidrones are all beating as one. The hatred is uniting us.

Nah, FUCK Paidrones. They made their fucking bed.

But we really need to send our grievances to Paizo. With enough of a ruckus, even those faggots would have to listen.

Meanwhile clairvoyance is in the crb and a level three spell and does this even better, and is minutes/level

I kind of wanted to do something like this as well. No mana system though, too much for me.

Wizards get a primary, secondary, and tertiary school. They can only cast spells from these three schools. Primary schools get a +1 bonus to caster level/dcs/dice rolled/duration/whatever. Tertiary get the opposite.

Thought about allowing you to spend feat slots to boost a school up that ladder or maybe add another one at tertiary, not sure though. Primary and secondary might also be enough.

I just hated that wizards could learn every fucking spell with almost no sacrifice or payment for it. Really dumb when someone goes "I am a necromancer!" and yet can sling fireballs, cast illusions, toss animal-like buffs on allies, and fly.

...

what's a good school of magic for an arcane sorcerer to have spell focus and +caster level in? Necromancy seems solid, but I'm not sure if the flavor fits my concept. Any of the other schools would fit fine, though.

I'm seeing a lot of people in GitP and Paizo forums actually boycotting the book.

Makes sense - There is no errata if we pretend the book never fucking existed in the first place.

Do you also force your fighters to focus on two or three weapons exclusively? Having 3.5 school system with no generalists would be better in my opinion.

>I just hated that wizards could learn every fucking spell with almost no sacrifice or payment for it. Really dumb when someone goes "I am a necromancer!" and yet can sling fireballs, cast illusions, toss animal-like buffs on allies, and fly.
You sacrifice gold though. Scroll costs + writing
(Not that you need gold because the only item you *really* need is a band of +int)

litterally not possible to answer without knowing more about what you want to do

>In quick runner’s shirt, in the second sentence, change “on his turn” to “and then immediately end his turn, losing any unspent actions. A character must wear this shirt continuously for 24 hours before he can activate this ability.”

FUCK Paizo.

Really it is more cost effective to just save up for several blessed books. So all you need is access to the spell which cost half the scribing cost generally, so in other words cheap as shit.

My other shitty, shitty idea for it was doing every spell at different levels for different lists, but they're all that thing.
For example, Invisibility would be lowest in illusion, of course, but there would be an enchantment spell a level or two up that did about the same effect (the SEP field idea), an evocation shenanigan that used summoned shadow, etc., and it just wouldn't be in a few schools.
You have differing levels of how good and how easy it is for different schools without everyone pulling off the same list.

I realise that's a huge paperwork headache, but so's the other.

Not that user, but fighters can't tear gaping holes in reality with their weapons, so yours is kind of a false comparison.

Your other option is just limit their spell access, I mean they get two every level, and other then that they need scrolls or a teacher, if they have access to every spell it is because the gm allowed them access to it.

I feel physically ill looking at the 'review scores' of this book.

Those reviwers are fake, right? They're all just Paizo devs making fake personas, yeah? Nobody could possibly be this stupid to buy a book that would ruin 80% of the most useful wondrous items?

ITT: People overreacting.

Most spells can't tear gaping holes in reality, but you can with a portable hole and a bag of holding.
So what's your point?

No, but fighters don't have literally over a thousand weapons to choose from divided into 8 schools and can swap a dozen of them in and out every rest with each school generally being capable of vastly different things.

One day, a save-or-die necromancer. The next, a flying fireball shitter. After that, a machine that shits out summoned monsters. Or just be a combination of those and use whatever fits the situation once you have enough spell slots. The only cost is generally paying to learn the spell once, aside from spells learned on level up, and you can craft your own magical gear pretty cheaply using your knowledge of magic so it is not like you suffer too greatly.

Not even slightly comparable to a fighter switching from, say, a sword to an axe. Or even things that actually change how you play like a pike to a whip or to a bow.

Fighters also do often get locked into one weapon type or group anyway due to the cost of enchanting them and how feats/archetypes work.

the book came out litterally over 3 years ago you illiterate cuck. people are shimmyshammed over the errata

Goddamn it, they ruined Snapleaf. Fuck.

Kill yourself, Paidrone

I think the review scores are for the book prior to the errata.

Source right fucking now

if they decided to take away a 1/day pounce, i'm going to defecate hatred onto them.

Look at the review dates bro. They all came out prior to the errata.

That was one thing that is kiiiind of understandable, it was always supposed to be a consumable.

I'm fine with it being a consumable item.
I'm just mad Vanish isn't an immediate action anymore.

is that all they changed? that its a consumed item? no reason to be mad at that

""""""Enjoy""""""

Using a quick-runner's shirt means you end your turn after using it. Martials again get shat on.

Yep.

UE Errata.

The Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier now gives DEFLECTION rather than luck, and the crit negation only works ONCE EVER.

And uh... apparently you can only use it while falling? So hop then use it in the air?

I know, that's what I'm saying. It was literally the only option for a lot of martials, even into higher levels, to be able to both move and full attack in the same turn.

How long before DSP introduces an item that works exactly the same as it used to

You know you people don't need to include the errata right? It's only mandatory for Society Play...

>Wizard has access to all 1107 spells
>Wizard has had time to scribe all those spells
>Wizard has the spells he needs at the time he needs them because he some how knows the future.
Seriously wizards are strong but stop assuming they have everything all the time, Jesus Christ you look stupid.

The problem is most likely the errata will affect the pfsrd site, which majority of us use.

I find most people just assume the errata is being used because it is 'official' and it is what the SRD gets updated to.

>So hop then use it in the air?

And waste a Move Action? Are you mad?

The problem is that they can theoretically have ALL of them.

The only limit they have is their gold, which they can also save a hefty amount of on item crafting.

They have the ability to expend gold to get more class abilities.

I mean fuck, Clerics are technically worse, they just GET THEM ALL TO START WITH.

Pretty much this.

There was some talk before about the SRD actually getting onto recording previous versions of things, like before errata? That fucking failed then but we NEED it.

Fuck, I don't even KNOW what the original Crane Wing was.

I didn't. I said there was a cost. I said that cost was minimal, because it is. You can buy scrolls from towns or just learn the select spells you want on level ups. The gold cost is reduced by the fact that anything else you would buy with gold is cheaper for you because you are a wizard capable of crafting things you would buy, which is also partly because you can learn any (or almost any) spell. You can also salvage spells from dead wizard's spellbooks.

I don't know why you are strawmanning this hard, and I have no idea why you would try to compare what spells are capable of to what weapon types are capable of.

you can deflect one melee attack a round while fighting defensive

Noice.

And now it's ass.

Thanks Paizo, that's actually cool.

not saying you don't have some point but really, crafting takes time, a fuckton of time. a wizard is not going to be able to ignore it if you are smart about managing their time. of course theyre going to be amazing if you give them enough time. time is a powerful resource. regardless though, fighters do not stand up to wizards in versatility by any measure imaginable

We need a pre-errata version more than ever.
Ring of Ferocious Action, Jingasa, Snapleaf, Quickrunner's, Brawling and Master's Staff needs to stay its original versions.

>The only limit they have is their gold, which they can also save a hefty amount of on item crafting.
No their limit is also what spells they can find that people are willing to teach, did you actually read the rules for how learning spells work or are you just using the meme wizard with access to everything!
Independent research is prohibitively expensive for learning spells so you need, a spell book, usually via another wizard who is willing to let you read their books, or a scroll.
And both these things are limited by what your gm will allow you to learn, the only other option is independent study which is 100 gold per a spell level.
Also note that your gm has final say on independent research, on scroll access, and on wizard spell book access, you get 2 spells per a level you can pick the rest are up to gm discretion, if your gm allows you to collect every spell then guess what, that is the gms choice that is not a class feature that is a gm allowed it feature.
So no most wizards will not have access to every spell or even the option to learn every spell.

I'm thinking of creating an "evil" campaign. They are supposed to be new recruits in a criminal gang and their initial assignments are just to prove their worth to this new gang. When they have done so they are given more complicated tasks which eventually leads to the gang's ultimate goal: get rid of the King and make sure none of his sons take over.

What do you guys think of this idea? The idea is that they are not supposed to be Evil per se, this organisation is not Evil aligned, they just don't follow the law. Should I restriction alignments to be non-good or non-lawful?

For this I will create a rather big city where most of the campaign will take place, with rivaling gangs, different type of guards and prisons.

An example early session could be that there is a man in the bazaar who is owing the gang leader money, but he is slippery. Find him and extort him/make sure he pays in some way.

There could also be assassination, bribing and smuggling involved.

TL;DR: "evil" criminal campaign where the players are new recruits in a gang. Yay or nay?

seems simple enough. It would just depend on the execution.

Any general tips on how to bring it about? There would be an old leader in the gang and maybe 2 of his subordinates, the rest are dead and the gang needs to be re-built and gain power.

My thinking is that this makes it easy to get the party to do things, like a quest giver basically.

For Eldritch Heritage: Sylvan, Paizo posted a faq that you can't eldritch heritage wildblooded bloodlines, which Sylvan is.

As for the Asmodeus worshipping LG Pali, it was a thread in Paizo forums about those cucks getting mad over a loophole they made getting abused.

As for the the CdG with the firearm, the rules for CdG doesn't allow firearms to deliver a CdG. Even worse, being able to CdG with a firearm is actually gunslinger deed that requires grit.

As for the sleeves of many garments, Paizo changed it to a glamer illusion instead of an actual transforming wardrobe, thus ruining it.

Yeah, you kinda missed last thread.

If I want to run Kingmaker but use a more sensible set of kingdom-building rules, what should I use?

Kingdom rules are kinda sensible though?

>As for the sleeves of many garments, Paizo changed it to a glamer illusion

Which only affects "appearance" (so basically, sight) too.

>DM Care and Feeding of party notwizards
Throw them whatever random magical items you feel like, make sure the fighters get something that lets them pounce and boosts will saves.
>DM Care and Feeding of Wizards
Make sure every enemy has a self-destructing spellbook, every NPC wizard hates the idea of the wizard braintrust, and the availability of scrolls to make sure your wizard doesn't have exactly the key to solve every problem with ten minutes of prep and an empty spell slot. Also make sure to keep antimagic ninjas in reserve somewhere in the setting that really hate spellbooks.

I'm just saiyan.

You're also about to suggest "Everyone around the table not be a dick" but, but if the rules that egregiously depend on that, you can probably do fucking better.
Hell, I'd prefer the erudite's system over that.

>Independent research is prohibitively expensive for learning spells so you need, a spell book, usually via another wizard who is willing to let you read their books, or a scroll.
>scroll

Guess what you can buy in almost any city? Your argument seems to rely entirely on having a DM who is actively banning large chunks of the spell list from the wizard to prevent him from being too versatile, which just achieves the same thing the original post did of restricting wizards to certain schools.

This is ignoring the part where even with just the two spells per level a wizard could still cherry pick and still have at least ten times the utility of a fighter by taking the best spells from each school. This is also without getting into how scrolls are common loot and any enemy wizard will have a spellbook that you can pluck spells from.

Yeah, meaning touch and scent gives the illusion away.

This is basically my beef.

A wizard can buy class features, which he can swap out day to day. Or not choose and choose later if he has time for a sitdown.

That's not class design.

Absolutely not. Housing is completely unnecessary by RAW if you can keep your Unrest at 0, the ideal strategy becomes to alternate between building banks and mills while never expanding, and natural resources are of negligible importance (e.g. the smithy works just fine even without a source of metal).

Magic items become trivial when banks raise base value, thereby allowing the PCs to have a 75% chance of finding any magic item within the settlement's base value.

>clerics are technically worse
The main limitations on clerics are that the base spell list is primarily healan, buffan, and support shit, and all the interesting stuff is in domains anyway.
You could probably do it a different way by having areas of 'hallowed ground' for stat damage removal/rezzing/removing curses/regenerating stuff/serious healing shit and NPC priests to take care of it.

>tfw my group is paidrones
>friend regularly gets angry when i say that maybe Pathfinder has a few balance issues
at least everyone knows the system.

>alignments
well first you kill yourself

>friend regularly gets angry when i say that maybe Pathfinder has a few balance issues
>at least everyone knows the system.
These statements are mutually exclusive, if you know the system you know their are balance issues.

Alternate, simple solution.
>Can't transcribe into spellbook, but can't lose spellbook either, up picked spells to 3-4 per level instead of 2?
>Spells outside your favored school (maybe two schools?) are one level 'higher' than normal for learning and casting purposes
>Spells in your banned school are two higher
>Scrolls count as the maker's spell level for everything
>10-15 minute trance to exchange a prepared spell slot for a spell one level lower
>Wands and staves work as normal
>Runestaves work as normal but the DM gets to bonk you on the head whenever you use one

my group's saving grace is that we're all pretty close friends and they like the way I DM because I'm an autistic /k/ommando who rewards operators operating operationally and RP. Take the good with the bad i guess.

>last group actually believed that Unchained Rogue was powergaming
they shut right the fuck up when i pointed out that a trap breaker vivisectionist can replicate all of rogue's most important class features while still having extracts, but I'm pretty sure they still see me as some sort of munchkin for not taking dodge and mobility or some shit.

The ideas being
>If you want something outside your area of expertise, you're not gonna have an endless supply of it and it will be harder to get
>Scrolls are better for all casters instead of being catch'em all versatility tickets, allowing them to shore up said weak areas
>Let's toss in some flexibility to the prepared shenanigans so this isn't totally a nerf
>Scroll stack takes the place of spellbook as vital pile of moneypower in a bag

As for clerics, I don't know. I've always wanted to do clerics more like warlocks, but I also see why they're set up to be the durable support bastions they are. It's just always seemed weird to me that tharizdunian fanatics and totally-not-paladins use the same basic framework and heavy armor kit.

Yeah, the rules need a lot of 'No, players. That wouldn't work' from the GM. Which kinda ruins it being such a complex system.

Honestly, my big annoyance with the design process is the whole 6x6 square. It looks kinda dull design-wise and feels very artificial.

I'm in a game currently using the kingmaker rules. We ended up doing up a Google Sheets for our settlement to make it simple. Case in point. The Arch in this case is a unique building that counts as Barracks + Library + 4x Houses.

Actually, the non-requirement of houses kinda gets to me. As houses kinda blow aside from reducing unrest. You have little reason to actually build them to try and house population as population doesn't need anywhere to actually live.

Kingmaker's settlement-building rules strongly encourage a settlement consisting solely of two or three of the most cost/time-effective buildings possible, completely eliminating diversity. The very fact that Paizo has to go:

>If you get overzealous in constructing a particular type of building in a settlement, the GM should feel free to add events to discourage this practice. For example, a settlement with too many Dumps is prone to otyugh and wererat attacks, and a settlement with too many Graveyards tends to have frequent undead attacks. This should not occur, however, if you build too many Houses, Parks, Tenements, or Waterways.

Is a sign that the subsystem is a farce, because it is essentially saying "It is up to the GM to actually make these rules balanced and sensical, because they are stupid by default."

Did anyone save Unchained Swashbuckler from a while back? It doesn't seem to be on the link repository.