How would you fix monks?

>being this dumb

Might want to try "not being retarded" before you try posting next time.

Multiclass into Druid or Cleric, then some spellcaster-friendly monk PrC like Sacred Fist.

Still doesn't change the fact you have neck bears who go "Muh D&D is a traditional European fantasy setting!" when Monk is a core class, hence why they are treated like shit for the most part

I just want to suplex dragons and power bomb ogres god dammnit!

They've got a lot of fun options with their ki pool, and they are pretty consistent with the damage they deal. More ki points would be welcome, but even just switching to the "5-minute short rest" variant rule makes them a great class.

Make them just punchy or just weapon-y.

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Monks are fine if you play them knowing full well going in that your character will never be the star of the show. You will be that guy who glides around during the encounter with that ridiculous movement and delivering precision strikes where they are needed most.

When I play I mostly hang to the side, try to help where I can and occasionally pull some crazy unexpected monk shenanigans when I think I can get away with it. Also being an asset to your party may not always be determined by how much damage you deal but by furthering the party's objective at critical junctures. Once during a boss fight I completely ignored him and all his minions and went straight for the vip hostage. Picked him up and spent a ki point to disengage before the party wizard lit the boss up.

>pic related how I monk

Play Legends of the Wulin

That's hardly an issue with the system itself.
And no, I'm not interested in whatever contrived manner you want to continue to try and blame the system, or in this case, systems.

If anything, it just sounds like you want to play at very high levels.

I would not play D&D and start playing a better system.

>compete with the other members of your party

See that's where you are doing it wrong.

Tsss.. You are hurting his feelings

Edgy.

I found you can fix the horribly underpowered 3.5 monk by raising his BAB table to the fighters. Everything else just falls into place, and hes usefull.

Keep Up then
because lets face it no one wants to sit around while the wizard does everything and uses his big magic dick to facefuck reality

In 5e, I would fix monks by:
1. Splitting into sub-classes earlier, either at level one or two.
2. Better melee defense at level 1- either adding prof bonus to AC as a reaction, or a better way of avoiding opportunity attacks.
3. Re-write the "martial arts" feature. That thing is the most confusingly written block of text in the entire book, and a huge turn-off for new players. Explaining to new players the deference between "monk weapons" and "weapons the monk is proficient in" or between the bonus action attack and flurry of blows is bad, and made worse by having to re-explain it over and over until they give up and play a different class.
4. Just make "4-element" monks into 1/3 casters, borrowing from the Druid's spell list the way EKs borrow from the wizard. If they MUST use ki points to power their abilities, give them extra ki points according to the point/slot conversion table.
5. Give monks bonuses to things like grappling. Probably via expertise in athletics/acrobatics.

Or Anima: Beyond Fantasy.
>tfw, through adroit use of holds offered by Pankration and Melkaiah, you pin a mile long dragon 5 levels above yours to the ground and it has to beg you to let it up.

We get it, D&D makes your pooper hurt. You actually have anything useful to add to the discussion?

after just playing a vanilla 3.5 monk to 12th level, i 100% agree with this

give them monk spells. make sure they aren't just "do some damage, do some more damage. stun a dude, daze a dude"

I'm currently playing with a monk in my party and he's great, runs around punching stuff and doing solid damage

if you were to have a party filled with meta-gaming powergaming munchkins min maxxed to shit with sorclocks just shooting eldritch hex blast all day then yea a monk couldn't keep up

if you play with normal people then it's fine, just like any class

WIS bonus as a buff to all other stats. Fluffy and reduces MAD.

If magic is that powerful then why not just make everyone a variant of the wizard?

"Buh not my martial" isn't really an argument when you stop to consider that martials depend more on magic than their mage counterparts.

>Casters are easy mode.

What's wrong with easy mode?

I get a bajillion different spells to choose from, I become better with age like a fine wine, and creatures like angels and demons can be bound to my will.

Meanwhile, martials get better at hitting things...okay?

will there ever come a day where a game is released wherein martials and magic users are equal?

Literally DnD 4rry edition.

That'd be a shitty game.

Oh, there are games where martials and mages are equal.

It's just that most times, people have an idea in their brains where linear warriors, quadratic wizards are not an issue with the game being poorly designed and more of a standard tick mark like the sneaky rogue or the healer cleric.

i mean i don't give a shit because I always play a caster of some sort (because why wouldn't you) I just want martial/magic babbys to stop bitching at eachother

same discussion since 1980

Martials need to stop bitching and accept their role as distractions.

...

Martialfags are the worse honestly.

The problem with Magefags is that most of their arguments boil down to whiteroom theorycrafting that assumes that they'll always have the right tool for the job in every given situation that would call for it.

Martialfags on the other hand will display either ignorance of the rules or will outright ignore the limitations set by the rules with the argument of "it evens the playing field" being their only defense against willfully cheating at the game.

Now, don't get me wrong, martialfags get the bum end of the deal but when their solution is to basically give themselves free reign to do whatever they want just because mages have spells that allow them to bend the rules, that's when it becomes annoying as fuck.

Play Exalted

Why would you ever do that to yourself? You'd be better off sticking with D&D even 3.5

Because, balance issues aside, at least that game has options that allow martial fighters to keep up with mages.

>just make everyone a variant of the wizard

Yeah do that

I don't even play D&D anymore because of the in built Martial/Caster divide Even though it has been reduced with 4th and 5th edition most characters practically need to multi-class to be viable at high levels or to fit specific character concepts and archetypes

My fantasy games now are run in Mutants and Masterminds at first they were in 2nd edition then progressed to 3rd purely because characters are only really differentiated by fluff rather than mechanics

Not saying that's a solution for everyone just one that has worked for me

Because unless someone tries to rocket tag heavily, its not that bad of a system. Plus the setting is great.

Fantasycraft seems to handle this pretty decently.

If we're talking 3.5, the easiest way to do it that I would recommend is giving them some divine casting: make them the religious counterpart to the bard. Provide them with a limited number of spells revolving around buffs and some healing with a couple touch spells for sauce and seasoning but no damage or debuffs otherwise. Take away all the pointless fluff ala still mind, slow fall etc. and you're left with someone that alternates between controlling the battlefield and providing utility to their allies. This means a monk can decide between an unconventional support role or someone who focuses spiritual and physical power to swing their fists like hammers.

It also makes sense in terms of lore, since they're already meant to be "pseudonatural". the only other option I can think of is implimenting ki into more than just letting you punch ghosts, but it just never turns out elegantly. Better to just give a sensible reason for their weak attack power than try to turn them into a martial class.

This.

Mutants and Masterminds is like a condensed GURPS, you can run anything in it. It does Fantasy so much better than anything else.

Dungeons: the Dragoning 40k 7th Edition

Suck in 5e means something totally different from suck in 3.5/PF. It's not optimal, but it's more than playable in 5e without the GM having to make ridiculous concessions just to accommodate him, whereas the 3.5 monk should be banned from every table for being shitty on a near-legendary level.

PF Unchained made monks perfectly playable. Hell, they're the single best martial class that isn't 3rd party.

If it isn't in core then it might not even exist in the eyes of most 3.PF tards.

Either way, I doubt it really helps them that much since Paizo hates monks with a burning passion.

>Hell, they're the single best martial class that isn't 3rd party.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Best pure martial class either goes to Bloodrager, Slayer, or Paladin/Antipaladin. Unchained is a solid improvement, but it still has a ton of pitfalls.

>if you were to have a party filled with meta-gaming powergaming munchkins min maxxed to shit with sorclocks just shooting eldritch hex blast all day then yea a monk couldn't keep up

this, 1000%

I second this.

Martials are actually more powerful than Magic Users, though.

Nerf it back in to the line with others. Or boost casters.

If it uses 40k logic where everytime you cast a spell you risk gibbing yourself then I can see why martials would be better overall.

What level are you currently?

>pure martial
>paladin

>if you play with normal people then it's fine, just like any class
I hate to break it to you, but you're not playing with normal people, you're playing with the mentally retarded. The level you need to be playing at for the monk to do anything but stand out by sheer magnitude of suck is so absurdly low, only the newest of players could be excused for.

Humans naturally learn and adapt as they do things. For example, if you play a fighting game with someone completely new eventually they'll get to the level where they at least know how the controls work. For the monk to be fine, you'd have to be playing with a group that has managed to stay consistently at the level of "confused grandmother who picked up the controller so she could be like the grandkids", which we generally refer to as retards.

>b-but the goal of RPGs isn't being a min-maxing munchkin
You don't even know what minmaxing is. If your definition of minmaxing is a fighter putting points into fighting instead of basket weaving and competitive farting, then do yourself a favor and apologize to your mother for being born defective.

Paladins are the purest martials.

>Same way you fix all Martials give them super-human and supernatural abilities that allow them to compete with Casters
>Of course nobody wants to do that because WEEB and NOT MUH generic western fantasy world #35268
Which fun cause even western fantasy had heros doing pretty "weeb shit" during their fights.

Cu Chulainn is my go to example of Barbarians

A skilled and cunning warrior who turns into a hulking monstrosity unable to tell friend from foe

Let them get a full attack with a move. Monks right now don'y fit their flavour or have any mechanical niche.

>implying it's only one guy who gives the oldest advice on Veeky Forums

Buzzword.

By taking "Mobile" feat.

Cuchulainn was as skilled in magic, curses, and poetry as he was at riding and every class of arms. He's not fitting for D&D classes because his class would be "all of them".

By playing a Swordsage instead.

>How are they fine in 5e?
>They still suck.
Well, you're wrong.
For open hand monks at least, they have battlefield control and damage output that matches with the best of them at level 17.

Anima.

Best answers
>Wizard can make apocalypse rain from the sky
>Monks just fist a whole arm into someone's chest, like a clean hole man
>Technicians come in two setting "murder" and "murder harder"
>Warriors can cut spells asunder or tank through them in ultra heavy armor
>Stealth assassins that occult even their own life and existence
>Mentalists able to give people mental lobotomies and raise armies of lobotomized zombies
>Summoners summoning armies
>Playing cards harder than YGO
>Familiars double team beatdown ala JoJo
>Being universe's best fanboy

>You party must be filled with retards to Monk be useful.

>Because unless someone tries to rocket tag heavily, its not that bad of a system. Plus the setting is great.

The setting is retarded and rocket tag is literally the only way to play the fucking game.

My personal favorites are
>What if Hitler could cast spells, and was even more sadistic?
>Local mountain-sized fox spirit has fire so hot it burns ghosts.
>Elf prince seeks ancient magic-fucking machine to remove humans.
>Entire province is full of nightmares and terror, Inquisition too afraid to attempt DEUS VULT.
>Local rich fuck, seeing world is pretty shit, opens resort, complete with swimsuit competitions. Rumors of mopey visitors disappearing start soon after.
>This article has been removed by Imperium agents under the orders of [Redacted], have a pleasant day.

How much of a newfag can you be?

Also, as a side note, go fuck yourself.

>After magic wing death squad christ decides that only way to deal with that is crusade
>Local old style necromancer is mad, mad about new age necromancers building undead instead of raising them
>City accidentally becomes raccoon city, local multinational corporation swears "they didn't do nothing!"
>Local empress is an idiot and accidentally the whole empire
>Ex-emperor has made his shithole of a country into the most advanced and industrious country
>Ancient prophet dragon of the darkness god of puppets is a huge human-aboo
>Necronomicon tells multinational corporation and artifact seekers he should totally build an undead messiah

The Tashalatora feat

>"Light" dragon who serves goddess of pleasure and apathy gives those it encounters a single moment of the absolute best sex of their existence, drives them to nihilism because nothing will ever come close to that moment again.
>Corporation specializing in artifacts and undead accidentally a mansion and small town, blame local shapeshifters.
>My players have to clean up the mansion, become afraid of undead Psychic Spiders.
>Mentalist loses a foot to a three-headed zombie beast.
>Players refer to mansion as Hallway Simulator 2016, because I used that actual RE1 Mansion map.

Full base attack bonus, ability to flurry with one handed weapons and polearms, ability to exchange blows for special attacks like trips or feints or perhaps even standard actions in general (yes that's potentially broken with a spellcaster multiclass)

Perhaps allow it fighter feat progression if you're feeling really generous.

But paladins use spells and make use of spells. Lay on Hands and Smite, Protection against Evil/Chaos, shit like that.

The argument seems to stem from the fact that Martial can only just stab things with their weapons while mages get an assortment of spells to use.

What should happen is Martials should improve their damage rolls over time with more than just 1d8+whatever and should get more dice to throw.

>"Light" gods really fucking lord inquisitor, who is totes OK with nuking innocents if they find supernatural shit, instead of cleanly extracting it from the village
>Light god of freedom is totally unrelated to dark god of rng and anarchism, names are just similarities
>Dreams are real. But only nightmares, fuck you.
>Asia accidentally the whole barrier, now they have demons pooring into it whenever someone cast spells

...

>look mommy, i'm shitposting

But that doesn't help that casters have save or die spells, teleports, flight, sleep, and god only knows how many more spells that allow them to trivialize any encounter that isnt built specifically to counter them

Just increasing martial damage doesnt do anything you need to give them better mobility and utility

That's why they should get magic items.

Shit even if they are supposed to be equal at the same level (A level 20 fighter being the equivalent to Hercules or something) using something that changes the laws of physics and can bend reality to it's will seems like a no-brainer. It's the equivalent to using a knife in a gun fight and complaining about guns.

So compared to the Tier 1 casters, the warrior would still be much less powerful even if they could take every last feat available to that class?

Why not just play anima/exalted/IKRPG/Anythingbutfucking3.5 if you want your fighters to be good?
FIghters are shit is ONLY a fucking problem in 3.5 and maybe 5e.
No, this is not a joke question. I always ask it and it's the same fucking answer
>Abloo abloo! It's too hard!
>Abloo abloo! I dun llik it!
>Abloo abloo! It's not 3.5!

what anime? I know this is made by ninja scroll, vampire hunter d team. Same art style.

Yes, because the bulk of feats a warrior could take assume them to be only as good as an ordinary human at peak physical condition.

Meanwhile, the mage can pop a spell and achieve a similar effect at relatively low cost in terms of resources.

Animatrix:Program.

>Animatrix:Program
ty

>relatively low cost in terms of resources.

That's subjective and depends on the campaign.

Any "inhibition" such as disarming, sundering, intimidating, tripping, or provoking an unsuccessful AOO imposes a nonlethal version of a negative level on the target.

>fighters
>shit in 5e
Whew, lad

Maybe is the codeword user.

Haven't played but they had the same "Me go face, me full attack. Me useful" gameplay last I heard.

Except they have the most combat options and damage, can self heal and have great saves, and can use whatever weapon is around and specialize in multiple weapons and get way more feats/stay increases.

Combine that with the system relying on magic less and skills more the fighter ends up being incredibly effective.

If you want to know the worst 5e class it's berserker barbarian hands down.

Beastmaster and Wot4E are bad but way overblown compared to berserker - and no ones says berserker sucks.