/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

Please let us know how it is, I'm interested as well.

My friend, whos is more experienced in GM business than I am, recommended me the savage world version because 1: I'll have access to a physical book, lended to me by him, and 2: It's less detailed and more free form than the current Runequest and Dark Heresy inspired UESRPG

My plan is, once UESRPG 2nd edition is complete, to switch over to that, if I feel like I need more detail.

You could focus on one piece of the staff and flesh that out into a full oneshot.

>They're explicitly not of this kalpa, that's unavoidable
And that still makes no fucking sense whatsoever, and does not explain why you seem to think at one point the Kalpas affected the universe and now they only affect Mundus.
>When I say, "this is the purpose of kalpas," I'm not sourcing it from one document. It's a pastiche of every available source and viewpoint
Then how about you actually bring out those documents and piece it together for me, because so far you are just saying 'it is this way because it is.' There is very little actual lore on the Kalpas. I can confidently tell you I've read all of it, I can't think of anything that implies the purpose you seem to believe in.
>Kalpas are not an intended part of Lorkhan's Nietzschean struggle, Velothi cutting your self into better shapes, or whatever. Otherwise it would just be done in one, simple
You say these things without even explaining yourself. In what manner would it be 'done in one.' How are you making sense of this? Life and Death are a cycle designed to be broken, they are a cycle to reflect the Kalpas, the trap of the Aurbis.
>The reason why things like the Leaper Demon King and the Makhurati Selectives are important are because these are the Lorkhanic events that slowly, over the kalpas, erode at Aka to the point where he'll do things like send a Dovahkiin to stop Alduin
So not only are you implying that Lorkhan is behind the Selectives, but you are implying that Lorkhan has just been messing with Akatosh so that Akatosh would just say fuck it and break the cycle? There is no reasoning behind this whatsoever.

Do one piece of the staff. Start with waking up in the dungeons of the Imperial City, and try to get all the way to Fang Lair.

>Talin Warhaft
Talin probably isn't the Eternal Champion.

Today while playing Morrowind the game kept freezing whenever the music changed (happens mostly when combat begins and ends), it has to do with a Microsoft Security Essentials update. Make sure your Morrowind folder is exempt from real-time scanning and everything will work again.

Just incase any fellow anons are having the same problem. Try playing some Morrowind to check if you have it.

>Talin probably isn't the Eternal Champion
Talin is three people
Uriel Septim's general, who got locked away with him and curiously disappears (even from later versions of Arena).
The Eternal Champion according to the Arena manual
tes.riotpixels.com/arena/files/arena-manual.pdf
The Eternal Champion's father according to the Character creation
>One summer afternoon your father, Talin, gives you a choice of chores
en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Character_Creation

It's all very odd (perhaps a mistake on Bethesda's part). Doesn't stop me from revolving a few headcanons around it.

I read it a while back before Skyrim.
Can't say I was to happy with it at the time I'm afraid. I remember disliking the Mede empire and the whole floating island concept.

Actually I guess I was butthurt more than anything by stuff like the destruction and invasion of Morrowind and the introduction of the Mede dynasty. At the time I felt the author was trying to reduce the Elder Scrolls settting to his personal generic fantasy playground. Some of the characters had real charm though, and although I forgot his name the male Dunmer mentor type was really cool. I didn't care for the female protagonist though. My ex called my misogynistic but at the time I really felt that the author was pushing the 'strong independent girl' trope in an already cliched novel.

Despite all that I still enjoyed it and would recommend it if you'll find it cheap. It's also rather short so that's a bonus I guess.

It's probably just a blunder, or just a case of careless naming.

In terms of Talin being the Eternal Champion, let me explain why I find it to be unlikely. Or, at the very least why it's not Warhaft.
The only reference to Talin being the Eternal Champion are the three introduction pages to the manual, which is written like a story of the game's opening moments. His name is never used again in the manual, or in the Codex Scientia, or any other text.
In the manual, Talin ask's Ria "Why not go to General Warhaft, or the Imperial Guard?". So Talin is clearly not Warhaft. In fact, he's supposedly a younger man sent to study magic under Ria.
The Daggerfall Compendium says that the Eternal Champion was 19 when his quest started, so that would mean he wouldn't hold any senior military position.

The most likely explanation is just that whoever wrote the manual went with the name Talin for the intro pages. It's very much made clear by the manual that you're supposed to create your own hero. It's probably just poor usage of the same name which led to confusion.
Character creation clearly doesn't matter, but it's interesting that they used the same name there.

I'll make this quick.

Redguards are not from this kalpa. This is not up for debate.

Kalpas never effected anything but the Mundus. That does not mean other cycles do not effect the Aurbis.

Alduin is a fragment of Aka. Aka is at odds with Lorkhan. Lorkhan wants to create the Mundis so someone on it can achieve Amaranth. Aka creates the cycle of kalpas to try and prevent that.

Without the kalpa cycle, events would just continue endlessly until someone achieved Amaranth. With it, these events have to slowly degrade Aka's integrity, like STRIPPING HIM OF HIS ALDMERI ASPECTS until the kalpa is allowed to continue to the point where someone can achieve Amaranth.

Not this it's relevant, but even the daedra have a cycle of life and death. Reforming in the waters of Oblivion isn't all that different than reincarnating in Aetherius. Remember, Mankar called Nirn the plane of Lorkhan.

This is very simple.

>This is very simple.
Not the guy that you are quibbling with but you've got to admit that it is a fair bit more than simple.

I really liked them more than i should. They have grammatical errors and its kind of fanfictiony but god damn it i had a great time with them.

THIS THREAD IS NOW OFFICIALLY A KHAJIIT THREAD

To be honest i cant remember her name either but i remember liking her. The whole chef stuff was hella interesting

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10 septims to the brave game master that can sneak in that line in your next game.

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I-is it finally out?

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>Kalpas never effected anything but the Mundus. That does not mean other cycles do not effect the Aurbis
So you are admitting that Satakal is in fact a force that eats the universe over?
>Aka is at odds with Lorkhan. Lorkhan wants to create the Mundis so someone on it can achieve Amaranth. Aka creates the cycle of kalpas to try and prevent that
See this is where I draw the line. Yes the idea is that the Time-God and Space-God are kind of sundered, but never is it ever implied that the Time-God is actively working to sabotage Lorkhan's plans.
All you are doing is using circular reasoning to reach this idea. 'Oh, Kalpas exist, this is proof that Akatosh is trying to stop Lorkhan!' but how do you know that's true? 'because Akatosh is trying to stop Lorkhan.'
>With it, these events have to slowly degrade Aka's integrity, like STRIPPING HIM OF HIS ALDMERI ASPECTS
Well let me start first off by saying we have no idea if the Selectives succeeded in their goals to begin with. Second off they were not editing the overall idea of time, but rather Akatosh alone. It's not like they fucking killed Auriel, they were just trying to make Auriel and Akatosh not the same thing. The Time-God and Akatosh aren't necessarily the same thing. Akatosh is just one interpretation of Time, one that includes a lot of Lorkhanic aspects.
>but even the daedra have a cycle of life and death
The Daedra are basically always dead, though the same thing can pretty much be said of living mortals.

>the manual, Talin ask's Ria "Why not go to General Warhaft, or the Imperial Guard?". So Talin is clearly not Warhaft
Oh no, I definitely wasn't implying the Eternal Champion was necessarily Warhaft, I'm just noting the fact that the EC and others are referred to by that name.
What I do feel is most odd is Warhaft's disappearance.

I rather think Warhaft's appearance is more mysterious. Only the Emperor being rescued at the end sounds like an oversight, and in the version currently being distributed you also save Warhaft.
But the thing is, the guy who goes away in the intro is only ever called Talin, commander of the Imperial Guards. The guy you save at the end is only ever called General Warhaft.
They're obviously intended to be the same person, and they look the same, but it's very weird to first only refer to him by one name and one title, and secondly only ever refer to him by a different name and title.
It really seems that there was some blunder somewhere here.

>and in the version currently being distributed you also save Warhaft
Are you sure about that? In my version, which I got from Bethesda's website, Warhaft was not present at the end.
Here is an image of a text display not included in the final game. It refers to Warhaft as "Talin Warhaft" and not only that but calls him your guardian. I have to wonder whether he is actually intended to be your character's father.

How is Aka's integrity being degraded? I doubt that there's a Maruhkati Selective every kalpa, or someone mantelling Shezzar and stealing some of Akatosh's aspect.

No, I don't put a lot of stock into the Yokudan worldview. It's unexplained at this point, sort of like the Get.

Aka is the chief of those who got pissed and, in the traditional worldview, had Lorkhan's heart torn out. So yeah, he would be pretty opposed to the whole thing. At least, until this kalpa, where part of him obviously isn't. Aka did kalpas. An aspect of Aka enforces them.

The further Aka is fractured, the further this prevents him from acting out his will. In your post you say Akatosh is only a fragment. He is. With his creation shit is even more fucked up, which is why things like dragon breaks, the Numidium, and CHIM happen with more frequency.

If Alduin ate the world when he originally came, these events would not have transpired. In past kalpas (if such a thing can be said) they presumably haven't. Because he was stopped, they did happened. Because they happened, someone achieved Amaranth. This was Lorkhan's goal, and kalpas actively work against that.

I can only really point to the examples we have in this kalpa as evidence, but things like the LDK point to an overarching effort.

Oh, but basically it's like this: imperial-library.info/content/etada-eight-aedra-eat-dreamer

>No, I don't put a lot of stock into the Yokudan worldview. It's unexplained at this point, sort of like the Get
How is it unexplained? The myth is all the explanation you need, the Aurbis was always a trap, hence why Lorkhan was driven to escape it, how is this so hard to believe? You literally just said in your last post that the Aurbis has cycles.
>Aka is the chief of those who got pissed and, in the traditional worldview, had Lorkhan's heart torn out
You mean, Auriel, right, or even Trinimac? Even the Nords state it was specifically Elven gods who killed Shor. Akatosh is inherently a mannish design, and likewise aligns with men. Aka is just the overlying idea of all Time Gods and has no inherent ideology, it doesn't even actually exists anymore. Aka is basically the Aldmer of Time-Gods.
>The furher Aka is fractured, the further this prevents him from acting out his will
>With his creation shit is even more fucked up, which is why things like dragon breaks, the Numidium, and CHIM happen with more frequency
>If Alduin ate the world when he originally came, these events would not have transpired. In past kalpas (if such a thing can be said) they presumably haven't. Because he was stopped, they did happened. Because they happened, someone achieved Amaranth
Once again, there is no source for any of this, other than blind speculation.
This entire theory his based on the assumption that Time is actively trying to stop the Amaranth for whatever reason, and then used as your explanation for why Time is actively trying to stop the Amaranth. Hell, you are actually disqualifying an entire creation myth to support your theory.

Iunno I don't think EVERYTHING has to be super nordic it seems silly. The imperials should seem more cyrodilic like how they were in oblivion.

I really wish they had kept the Imperial Templar armor. It would have been amazing in Skyrim.

You're overcomplicating this a little.

Why do you think there are kalpas?

>People are actually trying to make sense of Arena.
Kek. Good luck.

Isn't arena basically just a dungeons and dragon crpg and not much else? You won't find much about arena except in the later games that refer to arena

Its more that Arena is inconsistent with itself

>the later games that refer to arena
Any examples?

Lots of references to Shinji, for one. Some in-game books still mention Tharn.

What would you call a class that has these skills?
Destruction
Conjuration
Light Armor
Blunt
Block
Archery
Restoration(?)/Alteration(?)

(?) Is undecided

Battlemage, maybe?

Shaman?

If I remember correctly, that's pretty close to Witchhunter

Probably a witchhunter or a spellsword. You might be able to get away with saying pilgrim.

adventurer

I finished reading that last week. The middle drags a bit, but the last quarter really picks up. Ends on a huge cliffhanger, so I need to hunt down the second one.

Thank you! I thought I had gotten a virus or something.

Nords always have been a large part of imperial legion, i'd expect nordic influences.

Fuck Men, fuck the rest of Mer and the beast races.

Dwemer ftw

Why are these fucking gray.

Dwemer are grey skinned. Somewhat similar to Dunmer.

From an in-universe standpoint, that makes sense. Legions, especially legions actually drawn from local populations, should have some local influences.

But from a game standpoint, I can see why they drastically toned it down - they wanted the Imperials to feel more foreign and out of place in Skyrim, to make the Stormcloaks seem more like people fighting for their homeland and traditions.

>citation needed

Are you retarded? Have you never fucking played Morrowind?

Why do people who have never played the games even bother coming into this thread?

>Dead ghosts look grey
Not the same thing at all

Aren't all the dwemer we see in Morrrowind ghosts? That picture looks surprisingly un-ghosty.

These are fucking ghosts. You might as well say that Dunmer are all floating Mr. Skeletals without legs.

Have you?

That's the model without the ghost filter geniuses.

He has corprus, he's not a reliable look for dwemer

Neither are ghost, the "filter" you are talking about is just transparency and they have no reason to be grey from a lore perspective. They would most likely be a shade of aldmeri gold.

So? Think about it: the player was never meant to see them without the ghost filter. How do you know that they didn't make them grey just because it worked better for design purposes?

Fights with clubs in close, with touch spells. Can alterate how arrows work. Restoration to heal self. Blocking is good too, prefers light armor to move quickly. Conjuring to summon stuff.

It is not a spellsword, or battlemage. I would say Daemonhunter.

>daemonhunter
Daedrahunter, c'mon user

You can't really be sure what he's going to do with those skills, user. For all we know he uses destruction magic from a range before closing with an axe, using alteration to defend himself and restoration to drive away the undead, relying on magic more for defense than armor alone while using conjuration to summon weapons to aid him in battle. That could be a battlemage or spellsword fairly easily.

Why not? Dagoth Ur was referred to as The Devil.

Marukhati called Daedra "daimons".

user who posted class here. Conjuration is for conjured weapons as well summoning, but mostly the latter. Restoration, if used would be for healing, alteration would be for protection. Destruction is a support skill more so used at close range instead of distance. I also have minor skills in mind such as Mysticism and Sneak.

He was referred to as the devil of [the tribunal's] religion once or twice, though never directly called the devil. Doesn't really matter as daemons are not a thing in the TES universe and that word has never appeared in any related material to my knowledge.

Demons are referred to in lore at times, and some Daedric princes are called demons in a few texts. Specifically I recall Hermaus Mora being one of them.

And then you get things like items and armor called "demon [whatever]".

It's likely that it's not meant to be literal, that demons don't exist per se, and it's just a confused instance of language being directed at the end-user in a way that breaks the rules of the setting. A narrative seam, so to speak.

Sneak seems like an interesting choice, considering summoning and most of your other skills wouldn't do much to help be sneaky assassin type. Not much like a Nightblade.

Sneak is mostly so I can utilize my archery skill at later levels and get a sneak bonus. And mysticism is for detect life spells, and reflect damage(because I actually never used those before).

More to the point dunmer are only grey because of Azura, who turned them grey right after the dwemer Amanaranth'd. So it's pretty unlikely she did it to the dwarves too.

Still they'd probably be pasty on account of living underground.

The model obviously has subdued colors and empty eyes to make it look ghostly. The artistseems to have taken this depiction too literally.

If they were grey, it probably wouldn't be because of Azura. In fact, it could've been fitting to make them look just like the people that they'd had a hand in destroying, and that the Tribunal had misused the tools of.

Still, now that we have a non-ghosted version of the dwemer to look at, is there any chance of translating the writing on his robes?

I think it's just dwemer-looking scribbles. Some look like letters from the dwemer alphabet, some are unrecognisable.

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>is pale yellow/pale gold
>all these people saying its gray
Are you guys monochromatically colorblind, or did you not open the thumbnail?

Yellow-gold is the banner on his hat.
Are you colorblind by any chance

Yeah, basically a Witchhunter

>tfw the ES classes cover so many bases it's easy to be compared to other classes

Lets turn up the saturation. Wadda you know, he's yellow, just like all the aldmer.

Not him, but there is a slight yellowish tinge to the grey. I wouldn't call it anywhere near gold, but I can see where he's coming from.

On one hand, they're so specific that there can be a serious difference between a pair of classes just based on if they use one type of weapons or the other, and on the other hand they're so vague that it's really up to the player to decide any differences, since NPCs will all pretty much use the same tactics anyway.

Don't patronize me you shit. I only looked at his face and hands. And lo and behold .
Get /your/ eyes checked.
>And yea, let it be heard that in this general, thou shalt not bear false witness to lore and information, whether by choice or by inability.-Autismous 4-15
-Amen

That sermon was more fun to write than it had any right to be.

>Hey let's make the image have more color
>I told you guys it has this color
I'm not making fun of you, I doubt many people on Veeky Forums understand how colors work.

It wouldn't make sense for them to not be gold. Altmer and chimer are gold, that is the original skin color of mer race. Mer that are not gold are changed by daedric curses.

They probably lost the color from spending all their time underground.

>Maormer are changed by daedric curses
>Falmer are changed by daedric curses

Well falmer were changed by shrooms

Nirn's only a few thousand years old, there isn't enough time for dramatic evolution like that to take place

>falmer
got shroomed
>maormer
Aren't they gold? Orgnum might not be, but he's got all sorts of other weird shit going on.

It has less color because it is a model of a ghost, not an actual dwemer.

Not these Falmer, the original ones.