DMG for 5e says that in Wuxia rules: Longsword = Katana, but I feel like it should be able to be wielded by Dexterity...

Unless there's some bizarre quirk to geography like Discworld, there certainly is an East, and the things you find there may be called Eastern. Orient is just a synonym for East.

personally, i would argue that any onehanded sword should count as dexterity and any mace, axe or two handed weapon should count for strength (this ofcourse got some exeptions, such as a spear, but i think as a general rule it makes more sense

>Samurai are famous for being quick, right?
Unless that's code for shooting people with Portuguese rifles, then you're making a dumb assumption.

Back to wherever you came from please

>Samurai are famous for being quick, right?
No, not really. That's all just exoticism and weeb lies talking. The samurai were just warlords/hired swords if we're talking Heian era, then were just promoted to regional lords in the Ashikaga/Sengoku periods. It was only in the Tokugawa era they were considered expert soldiers and even then they didn't see that much action in peace-time. The Tokugawa samurai that are usually thought of as experts of both martial arts as well as artistic arts barely saw an actual real battle and were a far cry from their more skilled Ashikaga or Sengoku brethren.

honestly I always found Sengoku/Realm Divide era samurai more interesting than Tokugawa anyway.

It's one of the more interesting eras of Japanese history. The combination of endless war/political intrigue makes it perfect for campaigns anyways.

>hired swords

How much loyalty did they have?

all over the place. an important skill of a japanese general is knowing who on both your side and your enemy's side is most likely at any given time to turn traitor. in other cases there was some legendary loyalty on display.

>How much loyalty did they have?

Ninja were more faithful.

And both were more reliable than monks.

Basically what said. But there is one distinction to make. Smaller samurai clans/houses could be bought out but larger ones effected politics heavily, especially once they began establishing castle-towns of their own in the later years of the Heian period.
Ninja were samurai you idiot.

In all honesty every sword relies on dexterity. Two handed swords are much quicker and require less strength than one handed swords due to the bio mechanics used in operating a sword.
Katanas are heavier and shorter than most European swords yet the store of combat lends itself more to short sharp less powerful motions. Katana fighting is very central line guards and quick snaps.

So no don't do that if anything make all weapons dex based and make str the most useless stat ever

What about those samurai who preferred to wear masks to battle?

>Katanas are heavier and shorter than most European swords

Well, a bit heavier than most European swords of similar length.

the masks are actually armor for the face, usually meant to be worn in tandem with a helmet.

Those were called menpo and were used to intimidate the opponent as well as announce their presence on the battlefield (it was for this same reason samurai wore those designs on their helms as well as the banners, but the banners were moreso for identification of what clan you belong to rather than intimidation/announcing one's presence on the battlefield)

Dnd doesnt simulate fighting well enough for you to actually have to give a shit or worry about logical consistency. Do whatever you want.

A Japanese historian once said "you'd be hard pressed to find a single battle in all of [samurai] history where the defection of betrayal of someone on one side or the other wasn't a major deciding factor."

[citation needed]

only ones I can personally think of were some of the battles during the invasion of korea, and there was still a lot of clan rivalry going on during that time.

Well, Strength gives better AC than Dex does (Full plate is better than 20 dex + Light Armour)

Oh fuck off.

What, mad that you can't prove your own quote?

>being this new

If you want evidence of the truth of the quote, read some goddamn books.

If you want a citation for the quote, sorry, it was something someone told me at a conference.

Christ.

By that measure, all swords should be dexterity based. Speed and skill are literally all that matter, strength is irrelevant.

Sorry but in the real world if you make a claim, you sure as hell should be ready to back that shit up. Don't they teach this sorta stuff in college?

Here's your (You).

>2+2 = 4
>CITATION NEEDED! In the real world if you make a claim, you sure as hell should be ready to back that shit up. Don't they teach this sorta stuff in college?

You don't need citations for common sense.

Exactly.

He literally said that another historian said that. You need a citation for that. What I said was common sense. I don't need a citation for that. It's that simple.

>You need a citation for that.
You don't need citations for conversations.

You need citations for quotes though.

Why are you so obsessed with having a citation for something a person said in a conversation?

I spoke to a historian once at a university conference. He said something along those lines. Fucking deal with it and move on with your life.

Strength was the #1 ability when using a katana.
One thing anime got right about Japanese sword training is the endless hours of swinging it in place. You need both a ton of strength and stamina for that.

Also I just noticed you can pick out the one white kid and her father in that pic. kek

Suburi will give you fucking Popeye forearms, it's true.

It sucks that longsword itself can't be dex based in the first place
But hey, that's d&d and it's idiotic desingn
Don't play it, there are better games.

and where does the speed come from? muscles strong enough to swing a bar of metal as if it was a thin branch

dex should be divided into precision and agility

Longsword was meant to be a finesse weapon.

Proof: rogues have longsword prof, despite not being able to backstab with it at all by RAW.

Unfortunately words have connotation beyond their dictionary definition, so despite oriental just meaning eastern its correlation with racism about the mysteeeerious east has basically turned into into racism by proxy. Similarly, despite previously being Literally Just The Word For Black people if you say Negro people will not without cause assume you want to get REALLY close to saying nigger without technically having said nigger.

Also in some cases, sudden, but inevitable betrayals.

I for one like the thesis that the focus in the Samurai literature and ethic about "be loyal" is in the same sense as "don't be a rat" in the Mafia, or the like.

It's not because all Samurai were loyal, it's because the chronic anxiety was that they would stab you in the back because they changed their mind or just because they got a better offer somehow.

Like how Nobunaga was doing quite well and then just really got fucked over by people close to him.

Fuck off with your tiny Asian dick.

It's more accurate than Oriental, and more evocative of D&D than Asian. I would have preferred "Exotic" which is really what they are trying to convey.

Chanbara is it's own thing, though.

Then again, can't really expect people to know that.

the problem with that is that it automatically assumes Europe to be the center, and thus is a eurocentric vision of things, which most of the time clashes with the local vision (hell the local word for China itself is "central kingdom").
We live in a wonderful age where people look at projected cultural superiority in every small detail so it's understandable that they choose some politically correct.

Well that's probably the subtlest baneposting I've ever seen.

Weaponary(especially melee weaponary) requires strength stamina and dexterity to use, alongside good technique and a calm and analytical mind. Unfortunately that's about 4 or 5 different stats and some skills on top of that right there, maybe more, and RPG makers want to avoid that level of MAD and complexity since it can get in the way of actually enjoying a game.

There's nothing wrong with seeing things from the perspective of the person talking or writing. If the main area of your setting is a rough analog of Europe, and there's a region far to the east that's a lot like Asia, people are going to see it that way.

>there certainly is an East

East of what? The planet's round you know.

A lot of

Light armor is also fourteen thousand and fifty five gold pieces less expensive than full plate. In 5e terms, that's significantly less expensive than multiple magical objects.

Exotic doesn't mean Asian.

That's not proof.

It's not that the baneposting was subtle, it's that everyone who replied was an idiot.

Damnbit, I meant fourteen hundred. Well, point stands.

And if it spins and orbits its star the way Earth does, the sun will always rise from one direction. That's east.

>the problem with that is
Non-existent.
The only ones who could possibly have a problem with that are "people" you shouldn't be giving a fuck about anyway.

>from one direction

Exactly. It isn't a place, it's a direction. And with the planet being round, you can move infinitely in that direction, round and round, with every place you pass along the way turning out to lie both east and west of both itself and all the others.

No shit, neither are kpingas, katars, or khopeshes - all of which are weapons that can be covered with the same DMG section by calling them exotic.

Being eurocentric is still better than being sinocentric.

So was the OP of this serious back in yore? Been ages since i've actually seen this last time.

And from the perspective of Brother Stephen the Monastic Cartographer, who produced your map and everything your party knows about the area, the land of fortune cookie munching samurai pandas is in that direction. So that's what he called it.

Comes down how you think the system portrays sword fighting or how you think sword fighting goes.

Such bait.

It just doesn't make sense more that anything. A katana is no more swift than a longsword. If you want to make longswords finesse weapons, sure, that's understandable, though you would in turn have to nerf it in some other way, like making it a 2-handed (1d10) weapon instead of a versatile (1d10) weapon; which actually makes sense, since longswords were prodomiently two-handed weapons.

Ultimately, 5e is missing a bunch of weapons that do not fit under the title of any of its current weapons: katars, shuriken, kukri, shotels, khopesh, arming swords, parrying dagger, garrote, and many more.

To be fair on at least one point, garrottes are less weapons and more assassination tools. Quite hard to garrotte someone who you don't already have under control(grappled, pinned etc) and is aware of your approach. A barstool makes a better weapon.

Fair enough.

>Ultimately, 5e is missing a bunch of weapons that do not fit under the title of any of its current weapons:
>katars,
Dagger with a funny handle
>shuriken,
Dagger without a handle
>kukri,
Short sword with weird curve
>shotels, khopesh, arming swords,
Funny shaped long swords, possibly axes
>parrying dagger,
dagger with larger than normal hand guard
>garrote
Actually exists in PoTA, tho I don't recall the stats.

5e doesn't have enough weapon ability variety to justify those weapons as it is.

>katars,
>Dagger with a funny handle
Except it can't be thrown it effectively.
>shuriken,
>Dagger without a handle
Good luck using a shuriken as a melee weapon.
>kukri,
>Short sword with weird curve
Kukri wouldn't be peircing damage and they can be thrown.
>shotels, khopesh, arming swords,
>Funny shaped long swords, possibly axes
Shotels were designed to go around shields, and are solely one-handed.
Khopesh are solely one-handed.
Arming swords are solely one-handed.
>parrying dagger,
>dagger with larger than normal hand guard
The point of a parrying dagger is for added defence. It should be incorporated in the weapon type.
>garrote
>Actually exists in PoTA, tho I don't recall the stats.
My apologies.
>5e doesn't have enough weapon ability variety to justify those weapons as it is.
You mean weapon abilities like versatile, finesse, light, etc? I agree. They should work on that as well.

>Except it can't be thrown it effectively.
So don't
>Good luck using a shuriken as a melee weapon.
So don't
>Kukri wouldn't be peircing damage and they can be thrown.
I guess dagger fits better then.
>Shotels were designed to go around shields, and are solely one-handed.
>Khopesh are solely one-handed.
>Arming swords are solely one-handed.

A bunch of weapons were designed to do a bunch of thins that the system doesn't represent. Warhammers aren't better against armor, for example. 5e weapons just don't do these kinds of things. There's also no "strictly one handed but isn't shortsword" sword so the best you can do is just using a longsword and ignoring the versatile property.

>The point of a parrying dagger is for added defence. It should be incorporated in the weapon type.
Having a weapon ALWAYS improves your defense; try to defend against an attack bare handed or with a sword, or even just a club in hand. This is also a detail 5e simply does not represent.

>You mean weapon abilities like versatile, finesse, light, etc? I agree. They should work on that as well.

Yes. Weapon variety is shit in 5e (not that "viable" weapon variety was ever good in D&D) , and it's intentional. The only reason they didn't just write down a formula for weapons instead of using a weapon damage table has to be legacy related.

>katar
Short sword
>shuriken
Dart
>one handed swords
Scimitars
>parrying dagger
Shield

Easy

I'm a narrativist scum, so in just just about any system I let my players base attack off of dex-equivalent if it makes sense for the situation, the weapon, and the character.

What the fuck are you going on about? What the fuck does that have to do with the wuxia section of the dmg?

>
>>katar
>Short sword
Agreed.
>>shuriken
>Dart
Agreed.
>>one handed swords
>Scimitars
They shouldn't be finesse weapons, a shotel sould really be peircing damage, and I would think a shotel would have something special like "ignors shield ac" since that's what they are designed for; at the cost of damage of course.
>>parrying dagger
>Shield
>
>Easy
You can stab with a parrying dagger, though.

>narrativist scum
>using a system with dex
>using a system with stats at all

fucking poseurs

I usually play fate. But there are occasions where I bust out other systems because someone really wants to play a game with "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover or something.

>there are better games
[examples needed]

Start with pretty much any rpg and you'll find improvement.

Make Katanas Scimitars with versatile to bump them up to a d8 when two-handed.

Now you've got a Katana with finesse that can be duel wielded, used like another type of curved blade, or used with both hands for extra versatility.

>no examples
I knew it.

D&D is best.

Have you tried not playing the worst D&D to date?

3.PF?

It's a moot point. People who are actually interested in games other than D&D will find a bunch after a cursory search.

Every single time someone says something like "yeah, so then show me something that's better!" the recommendations are batted away with such high quality criticisms like "lol shit nobody plays" and "lol narrative shit", until the person making the question fucks off secure in the knowledge that he showed all those hipsters that D&D is best.

Katana (Sword)
1d10 lethal 19–20 threat
Cavalry: Negates mounted fighting penalty
keen 4
S/1h
Hard 2

The weapons you drooling sperg.

The Wuxia section talks about running an East Asian themed game and how the classes fit. The "Wuxia Weapon Names" section can just be changed to "Exotic Weapon Names" and cover using the existing weapons to describe any nation's weapon which is the intent of the section.

>kpingas, katars, or khopeshes
These are no where on that list. All the weapon names on that list are Japanese or Chinese. Because that's what the wuxia section is actually fucking about. Japan and china. Not India or Egypt or anywhere else.
So, exotic would be the wrong word, and you're an idiot for suggesting it.

And even if you're sinocentric, katanas are still weapons from the East

while speed and technique are the primary determinants of winning a fight, full stop, it should be noted that the raw mechanics of properly swinging a katana powerfully and with proper form require substantial strength and practice.

they are not about making small holes into someone. they are about cutting large areas of the torso open in a single stroke, and positioning yourself in such a way that said stroke, while not zwee-fighting fast, is unavoidable.

so yeah, it's a strength weapon.

also, for dnd purposes, i think they use a longsword as a stand-in for damage die considerations and the fact that you can 2h it. dnd is pretty general with how it treats weapons anyway - flavor, appearance, aesthetics and so forth can be overlayed on the base rules with great success, and should be. you needed make katanas super special for the purpose of rolling die.

if you really, really want to use it as a dex weapon, make a feat for doing just that.

But Chanbara is a highly specific genre. Moreso than Wuxia. It's not always what they mean by it.