Treasure Rights

According to precedent, the dragon's horde is property of the conquering party.

If she wished to, he could insist as the living will of the deceased that she intended to hand down her horde to her daughter.

This however, would invite serious harm on the child however, as being the owning dragon of the horde means she is appropriately fair game for the adventuring party, as a good party would have been attacking a chromatic or other evil variety, and an evil party would have no qualms adding another body to the pile.

According to her age and separated status, she is likely owed between 5-10% of the horde, depending on variety, age group, percentage of draconic heritage and local laws.

She does have complete ownership of the lair and any remaining servants, guardians or traps within. She most likely also has the right to the deceased's body.

She could test it in court, but the exposure will likely be deadly for the young dragoness. I would personally suggest arbitration with the initial demand of 20% of the horde, expecting a 12-15% actual return before fees.

Spoils of war, right of conquest, to the victor goes the spoils and all that jazz.
If the baby dragon wants it she could have killed mommy dragon and EARNED that horde. But she didn't. I suppose she could try her luck with us but considering we killed a full grown dragon what can a halfy hope to do?

then again, the party is against a man who fucked a dragon.

The bard did that last week, whats your point?

Depends on how chill he is about it.
I wouldn't mind giving him a small portion if he can beat me in a grappling competition.

By ancient law and custom, it's ours through conquest.

But being unreasonable seldom gets you anywhere. Let the husband take whatever item has the greatest emotional value to him, if he so wants. Then as we split the remainder between us, the daughter gets a share as well.

>a good party would have been attacking a chromatic or other evil variety
which doesn't rule out that the dragon could have been lawful
any treasure horded could have been 'taxes' collected from the locals for living in its domain
no one likes paying taxes so that's plenty of reason for the locals to complain and inform the adventures about the dragon
thus it becomes acceptable for the party to kill land barons or kings because of disgruntled peasants?

then there is the issue of the power vacuum now created by the parties action. will another monster claim the domain? will the serfs squabble over electing a new leader? what if the dragon was using it's elemental magic to make the land fertile and now that its passed it'll return to desert or the tectonic activity it halted will now release it's pent up energies?

you can easily look at this another way: if the dragon was human, would you deprive their widower and adolescent daughter of financial security?

>implying that's a daughter

Yes I would.

I'd feel guilty for murdering a mother, not to mention a creature of equal or greater intelligence than a human.

I'd leave my portion of the treasure, assuming I don't desperately need it to save someone or something, and I'd probably end up sending the kid money every month or so.

Being a single parent is hard as fuck, and a dragon kid has to be even harder to raise.

I'll argue that ex-husband and daughter should both get an equal share because my character isn't a total douchebag, but they're nuts if they think the party's going to settle for nothing but having done the right thing after beating a dragon.

Inform the father "Your ex-wife's daughter will receive 1 equal portion of the treasure, which will then be turned over to the money changers, and held in trust with him as executive, a portion of the interest on such will be given to him as payment for overseeing the trust.

This is our standard children of the defeated package. Please sign here, here, and here. Now young lady if you will sign this document saying you will not seek vengeance upon us until you reach adult hood, and that any act of vengeance before such time will cause you trust to default back to the Adventuring Company Stormgren's Heroes LLC."

ahh i think i know where thats from

>ITT: candyasses who acquiesce to the demands of monsters

Sorry, but I paid the iron price for this treasure. There ain't no refunds for that. I'm not giving this up just because some smug monstergirl loli OP fapbait cites some legalese. Especially in a setting where I'm killing dragons with a sword.

If she wants her treasure so badly she better be prepared to take it, like a proper monster should. Cause otherwise she's out of luck.

Offer to let the daughter join the party as an apprentice, putting aside an equal share plus 20%(not because it was her mother's treasure, but because children are our future and we should invest in them) for her to freely have when she becomes a full fledged member. We have a very nice medical plan courtesy of our cleric, flexible vacation days, insurance in the case of death or permanent injury, and he can visit her anytime not during an adventure. Room and board included, as well as complimentary communication with friends and family by scrying on weekends and holidays.

I tell him no, the hoard belongs to us, and then I take it and we leave.

Well, if your party can handle Daddy Dragon plus Baby Dragon immediately after what one can assume to be a grueling fight with Mommy Dragon, I suppose you deserve to take the whole pile.

But I'm guessing that's not the case, because any dragon that doesn't leave you on the edge of death's door after the fight won't have a hoard worth your time at that level anyway.

So I'm just supposed to let some kid leverage that over me? A child attempting to browbeat me isn't going to work.

Sorry, but a dragon horde is a hill I'm willing to die on. If only because I'm already mad the DM is throwing a monstergirl at me going "aww pwease can I have my mommy's treasure?"

If the guy wants to pick a fight and the party is worn out, the obvious solution is to play nice, and then kill him once you've rested up.

Personally, I'd be pissed that this never came up before.

Despite the stereotype, you do not merely walk into a dragon's cave/castle/etc. and murder it. It takes a lot of time and effort- You have to track the dragon down to it's lair, you have to find out it's weakness, you have to prepare for the fight, you have to trap it somewhere it can't fly away, and you have to get your posse together to make sure everything goes right.

And then, after that, it just so happens that the Dragon had a husband and a kid? The fuck? How did this slip past your information gathering? How have they never had any contact until suddenly after she's already dead?

It's probably the fucking fey or some bullshit like that. They're always up for another hustle.

Take Dragon girl as wife/concubine at sword point, take entire horde as her dowry since I'm loathe to marry a dragonspawn, split it among party, be on my way, sell dragon bodyparts to witch later for enchantments

The whole scenario reeks of some smug "gotcha" moment where the DM is just throwing a random hurdle at you.

This is the kind of situation where the kid shows up and demands the treasure and the party kills her because this is dumb. Then the DM goes to Veeky Forums and complains how his players are all loledgy murderhobos.

It's not the kid browbeating you, it's the father. The kid is just a speed bump making a deadly fight slightly deadlier... in the end, daddy's the one that's gonna flatten you.

First post, best post.

>loathe to marry a dragonspawn
You're on the wrong board, man, we're all dragonfuckers here. And spiderfuckers, and koboldfuckers, and...

Knowing how these things usually pan out, the kid is the real threat.

These seem fair.
Then again, I'm in an all good party.

Go away Nameless king we have already beat you.

>Good
>giving treasure to a monster

^This obviously.

Nah, someone trying to take your well earned loot deserves whatever happens to them.

Not actually loathe, just saying the character is to justify taking the entire hoard.

Why do you even think I slew the dragon, retard? Im not passing up my opportunity to graduate from murderhobo to murdermillionaire so your dragonkin beastiality child can go to art college. Turn around and see yourself out the way you came. Now.

You are going to rape this child silly, arent you.

no reason to call her a monster just because she's half-human

Roll diplomacy.

The other half is dragon. Which is a monster which flies, breathes fire, and a host of other monstrous stuff. This child presumably has at least some of those abilities and if OP's pic indicates anything she has its features as well.

Ergo, monster.

...

Realized it as soon as I posted. Felt dumb immediately.

broadisting in epic Veeky Forums thread memerssssss!!!!!

Who dat boiii?

>horde
It's [i]hoard[/i], not [i]horde[/i], you numbnut.

>What do you do?
We set party face at the front give her the usual serving of buffs and let her roll Diplomacy on it. With modifier of approximately +64.

So we probably keep the loot, get legal claim on cave and surrounding lands, recruit the dragon girl for our case, and ride into the sunset leaving father behind fawning over how awesome we are.

italics don't work on Veeky Forums you numbnut

Didn't know that, you numbnut.

This is pretty much what my character would do. He himself are not one for monetary gain, but since the party would very much care, he'd be forced to once again be made middleman in large pricetag negotiations, and would eventually reach a conclusion similar to this. Not leaving the family high and dry, but still getting a damn good chunk of change out of it.
>"One third of 60 million is still 20 million. If that's too little for us, I question what kind of debt hole you've dropped us into."

Do you really think the party is going to stand for some Nicky NoFun parsing out their treasure for them and giving it to some random kid who shows up demanding her "inheritance"?

Maybe you should stop calling people "numbnut" until you at least learn how the site you're using works. The condescension loses a bit of its sting when you make a rookie mistake like that.

yes.
I don't play with edge

There's a difference between being edgy and not being a pushover.

This scenario strikes me as a cheap play for drama. The GM pulls this "inheritance" nonsense out of his ass, so now the party either has to give up their treasure or feel like bullies. Except this will almost universally backfire, because no player worth his salt is falling for this. Maybe a true and blue Lawful Good Paladin will offer up his share because he thinks it's right. But it's such a transparent and artificial way to grift the party out of its treasure under the guise of roleplaying.

Maybe the dragongirl is technically right. The treasure is by inheritance laws hers. But no one who kills something--something as dangerous as a dragon--is going to part with their well-deserved spoils just because the "law" says they have to.

This scenario goes one of several ways. The party says sod off and the girl leaves in a huff. Or she attacks them. Or the party attacks her. It's not like she's going to report us to the authorities, especially since they're probably who contracted us to kill the dragon in the first place. And if her and her father actually drag us into court and we get caught up in some property lawsuit then I'd probably the stop the action and ask the GM just what the fuck kind of game we're playing.

Sir we just spent a lot of blood sweat and tears to accomplish this. You should leave now.

Depends on what my superiors think but that seems basically fair to my character, who doesn't really know the legalities surrounding this. I can only assume our goal in all this was just to stop the dragon, but then the knightly order is kind of poor as of late, so the captain plausibly will want to dispute it in a court of law of some kind.

There are no legalities. You killed a monster, and then its spawn shows up demanding you hand over its stuff.

This might work in some urban fantasy setting where modern laws are applicable. But in a Medieval(TM) Fantasy world? That shit doesn't fly. She's outta luck.

If you killed a lich, you probably wouldn't surrender his magical weapons to his brother who just randomly appears and says they belong to him "by law".

I'll be frank here, I don't remember what the GM has said, if anything, about the dragons in his world so you may very well be right, but these folks are coming in talking like they expect dragons to be treated as people, and without the opportunity to ask the GM whether that should seem absurd in context I have to think they might have some reason to expect us to consider their argument.

I'd call my gm an asshole. I mean really, there is no point to a move like that.

my character who is a LG cleric of helm would proably consult the local laws and see what the legal thing to do was.

As per royal decree, enemies of the state forfeit their right to all property upon taking action against the safety of the general public. Property forfeited in this manner is under ownership of the state and is to be included in any bounty placed upon the offending party.

Actions which incur this penalty include counts of murder exceeding two (2) individuals, banditry, and general pillaging.

The dragon was charged with all of these, therefore her property is due to the state for use as bounty, which my party has claimed.

Take it up with the local duke, I guess, but until I see some papers get lost.

The way OP describes it, I got the sense the dragon was just like any other D&D dragon. Large, ferocious but sapient monster lives in a tower/mountain/castle and ammassed a horde of wealth.

But when we we kill it, then SUDDENLY the dragon's human husband and kawaii monstergirl daughter show up and act like they had some kind of normal family dynamic. Then now we're the real villains because we killed something's mom and now won't even give her her stuff back.

And the GM pats himself on the back for throwing in something which is a step above a "baby or the nun?" scenario.

I could very well be wrong, but that's just what I got out of the OP.

Do you want to know what happens when two bards go at it?

Slay the dad too. This shall serve as the catalyst for the daughter to become a superheroine in order to avenge the death of her parents!

This user is almost correct, but clearly I seduce the Father and become the little girls new mother.

... i take it you're a female bard?

Legally she was not a citizen of the kingdom that sent us to slew her. Take it up with the local lord, citizen.

>the dragon's former husband has just arrived with their daughter
>the man argues the horde belongs to his daughter as her inheritance

Look faggot, you keep talking shit, you gonna up like your ex wife.

I agree with your post and your taste in saber pics, user. Have another.

Go to quest you faggot

I mean, one. He survived being a 'former' husband. Either it means he pissed off or disapointed the dragon enough to get divorced, or he divorced her. Either way, it's an angry dragon...Not to mention, since he's coming back with his daughter as a weekly visit, that implies he was able to KEEP his daughter.

So, either this guy has the charisma of the gods, or he's strong enough to NOT die against a dragon. As compared to your party, that had to do the equivalent of gang up on it, to do this.

I won't get into an argument, because he'd either have high charisma, and make me want to give it to him. Or he's just super strong, and I'm not fighting the dude after fighting a fucking dragon.

It really doesn't matter. A dragon's hoard is loot and plunder, and stolen goods are not considered the property of the thief. Since the dragon itself had no legitimate claim of ownership over the goods, her descendants don't either.

This is like a drug lord's daughter showing up after an FBI raid and trying to claim the giant stack of Coke-dusted bills belongs to them.

Thank you anons

Have a Witcher Saber.

>A dragon's hoard is loot and plunder, and stolen goods are not considered the property of the thief.
except you don't know if the dragon stole it or when if it did
there tends to be a time statue when it comes to recovering stolen goods

>the dragon itself had no legitimate claim of ownership over the goods
them being in the lair is ownership enough

>a drug lord's daughter showing up after an FBI raid and trying to claim the giant stack of Coke-dusted bills belongs to them
that's because the US has laws against profiteering from criminal enterprises
if the drug lord turned that money into other items and put them in the daughters name they'd have a hard case to take it away

>except you don't know if the dragon stole it or when if it did
It's a dragon. They aren't citizens or even legally recognized as people. Their existence is crime enough.
If it were otherwise, the real problem the party would face is murder charges.

>them being in the lair is ownership enough
Possession is not a claim to ownership except in specifically defined cases where the possession is open, notorious, and uncontested for a sizable period of time, or cases of abandoned property (note: abandonment is defined as purposefully and freely choosing to throw the property away. Leaving the furniture by the roadside because you can't escape the dragon while carrying that much weight does not constitute abandonment, any more than does leaving your belongings to flee a hurricane or wildfire). While the dragon certainly has the first two down, even a single claim against it by any of its victims negates the claim.

>if the drug lord turned that money into other items and put them in the daughters name they'd have a hard case to take it away
Negative. They'd simply file suit against the funds or objects in question (yes, the funds, not the person) and require an exhaustive accounting of their ownership and means of acquisition. If it cannot be proved that the funds were NOT stolen, they can be seized.

Bro, if a party of adventurers busted into your lair, killed you, and your ex's response is "That's not surprising, she's a bitch" that gold is /probably/ not from her prize-winning bakery business.

Step 1: Torch any paperwork in the lair we can find

Step 2: "We are retrieving stolen goods, you can keep the lair and particularly valuable parts of the corpse."

>If it cannot be proved that the funds were NOT stolen, they can be seized.
Fucking Christ I despise my beloved country's legal system.

>letting the wife keep the corpse

Son, you're not a real adventurer unless you're chopping up dragons for parts.

youtube.com/watch?v=Ya7mwQYeICQ

There's a reason why corporations go through so much trouble to keep their books straight.

The laws were intended to be a sort of general counter to ambiguously shady "I can't put a particular charge to it but I just KNOW this shit's a mafia front or something" situations, because then if they couldn't prove it was legit, the law wins, and if they try cooking their books to explain it then they've committed a clear crime.
Then bureaucracy took over.

Graverobbing isn't illegal.

If they want the Horde they can try and kill us.

>Graverobbing isn't illegal

Graverobbing is illegal in just about every culture in history.

But this isn't graverobbing. It's killing a monster and taking the stuff it stole.

...

Of course not. If anything I'd try to get her to develop an infatuation with me so she'll want to be together once she's old enough.

>Shadowrun
>doing anything against da roolz like successfully killing a dragon

Really

There's generally no notion of nationalism in the time periods analogous to D&D. Eberron is an exception, but then again in Eberron dragons are almost universally dicks who vow eternal RaHoWa against half dragons.

>thus it becomes acceptable for the party to kill land barons or kings because of disgruntled peasants?

its acceptable to kill barons or kings for NO
REASON
WHATSOEVER
unless you are in some way pledged to not do so. its not even "unlawful," unless, again, you were a servant of his or whatever.

That's why most people who play this game aren't fun to play with. They just can't get past the murder-hobo mentality.

>a human and a loli

Yes pretty sure the party can handle daddy dragon and baby dragon.

I'm not going to expect a lone, greatly outnumbered human to pose a threat. Action economy, if nothing else.

"Murderhobo" is a term that gets abused to a HUGE degree on Veeky Forums. Murderhobo doesn't mean "we kill enemies."

A murderhobo is someone like a party that kills everything in the Caves of Chaos and then turns around and kills everything in the Keep on the Borderlands.

A murderhobo is not someone who merely kills and threatens people in the way.

This is a man who singlehandedly won a custody battle against a dragon. He's probably some god wondering the world in human form, or something just as powerful.

You assume that the dragon wanted its half-human abomination or that a dragon could ever be a mother for a human child.

If she has weekly visits than obviously she wants to be involved in her daughter's life.

This. By Veeky Forums standards Captain Kirk, Indiana Jones, Aragorn, Luke Skywalker, and Link are all murderhoboes.

You'd think people here believe there's only two types of characters: Chaotic Randumbs who stab the mayor for lolz, and nancy boys who refuse to do anything but roll persuasion .

Sorry, mommy dearest lost her board the same way she gained it, force of violence.
But if you want to push legal claim, you can pay the wehrgeld for all those she killed to get it.
So they can either make a clean break or inherit all of the bad with the good. Inheritance will never make it past probate.

PEOPLE!! The husband and daughter are both probably dragons too. The OP never said the husband and daughter were human and half-dragon.

but user, none of those examples would kill someone over loot rights.