Hmm, really makes you think

>TFW 50/50 silver and bitcoin
This faggot better be the opposite of spot on

Btc at its current no-use stage is not worth 10k+, thus is a bubble.

normies dont know or care about technical features of a coin, let alone do they compare it to other coins lol

Boomers just want to compare crypto to past happenings SO BAD. (((They))) want to plant the seed in normies' minds that crypto is bad, mkay? While they secretly buy BTC for themselves.

this is the definition of bubble

2) As already established, bitcoin is not a cashflow asset. It is a network, like facebook, reddit, the internet as a whole, the telecom system etc. As such, it benefits from the network effect. The more people who use bitcoin, the more valuable it is as money (unit of account, medium of exchange. store of wealth.) Think about it like a telephone. What is the value of 1 telephone? What is the value of 2 telephones? What is the value of 3 telephones? We can model the value of a network with a formula called Metcalfe's Law, or

Value of a Network = n(n-1)/2

In other words, as users increase, the value of a network increases by a factor of n^2. The price of bitcoin is rising because people are buying. As people by, the bitcoin network expands. As the network expands, the network effect, as modeled by metcalfe's law, increases the intrinsic value of the underlying asset by n^2. Thus the exponential growth curve. Cap these and repost in relevant threads.

Cheers Veeky Forumstards

The rise of silver was due to the silver market being cornered by two autistic billionaire brothers:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt

The one thing no one wants to admit, is there is no incident in all of history for a bubble popping 'just because it went up too much', EVERY bubble has popped to due changes in the FUNDAMENTALS of the thing in question. Astronomical increase in price is not inherently unsustainable, anyone claiming otherwise is being intellectually dishonest. The reality is unless the fundamentals kill bitcoin, their is no reason for it not to become infinitely valuable. The problem is we have no precedent for decentralised commodities where the fundamentals are more resilient to change.

In other words, strap in boyos.

the hunt brothers did nothing wrong, they were trying to establish a constitutional bank in texas.

Incorrect. Bitcoin is currently used as a store of wealth, medium of exchange (think overstock, NewEgg, Remittances, etc) unit of account (think altcoins) . It thus meets the definition of money and is being used as such at a clip of over 300k transactions per day. Also, due to the store of wealth use case, the network effect increase the value of bitcoin without increasing transactions.

>'just because it went up too much'

The Internet bubble did.

Incorrect, see

I don't know why this board has so much trouble with this.. We held BTC because why? It moons because some day everybody is zapping it around the world to each other? Everybody except us, because we cling to a variety of long winded half false logic excuses for why it should go up. The normans have literally just cut out the bullshit and bought for exactly the same ends, so they are going to hodl, nobody ever wanted to send anybody else their internet money, we were the normie.

The intrinsic value of silver and gold are derived from both their industrial value as well as their monetary value. Silver's value, in particular, is primarily a function of it's industrial value, and only secondarily a function of it's monetary value. The rapid increase in silver price due to the Hunt brothers cornering the market cause demand destruction for the commodity, as industrial processes that required the use of silver were no long profitable. The subsequent shift in in the demand curve cause the corresponding price drop, a text book bubble. This is in no way comparable to bitcoin, whose value is in no way derived from it's use in industry and an increase in price will not make any industrial use case unprofitable leading to demand destruction.

Nope. The internet bubble popped due to the companies not being able to provide their SHAREHOLDERS with sufficient profit and growth. Companies have operating expenses, rent, offices, employees, they need to make a profit to grow. The companies that burst during the dot com bubble had debts as well and simply could not provide a fast enough turn around for their shareholders.

It was the fundamentals, and you can't compare BTC to a company that issues stock. It may be a tired meme, but the only thing you can *really* compare BTC to is Gold, the fundamentals are mostly the same. (Industrial uses of Gold are exaggerated and very limited).

This is some good quality shilling user

Holy shit I just realised there's someone else in this thread who agrees with most of what I say.

Thank you. Cap and spread. The 'bitcoin is in a bubble' meme is disinformation.

This

Yeah bitcoin was a bubble at 10 dollars, and a tulip craze at 100.

But it REALLY was a bubble at 1000 and WOW 5000 IT MUST BE TULIPS OK I READ A MAGAZINE ARTICLE ON IT SO I THINK I KNOW OK????

Normies are retarded.

bitcoin is a bubble, but it so stupidly small compared to anything else, its not going to pop anytime soon

the dot.com bubble reached several trillions before it popped, actually even more when adjusted to inflation, the overall cryptomarket is still far from just half a trillion

besides, most people dont throw in more than they can afford to lose, i went all in back in march, and took my original investment + a big share of the profit home, now its just playmoney in there

>by 2025
by 2019

And then he compared it to physical metals!!

Bitcoin is not in a bubble and is in no way comparable to the dotcom equity bubble. See

>Any arguments to refute this?
Yes. Fuck your mother of you want to fuck.

The bitcoin bubble is that there are other better and cheaper coins that out perform Bitcoin by a lot.

Do the math yourself. Take the value of one BTC and count how many LTC you can buy. Now see what happens if LTC goes up by 50 USD.

Once people realize that Bitcoin is a risk low reward coin that is out performed in every possible way the bubble will either pop or ooze quickly.

>such that it's MARKET VALUE greatly exceeds it's INTRINSIC VALUE

Bitcoin's mkt cap is currently at 196 billion USD, that is a lot for something that has no mainstream use so far, other than speculation. Sorry, but I still can't go the grocery store down the street and use my Bitcoins, nor can I pay off my mortgage, or my car loan, or my student debts etc (you get the point).

Sure it can be used as a means of exchange (a currency) in the future, that was the whole idea from the beginning, but that is extremely far away from happening (if it ever does happen), since the majority of holders are more concerned with making USD profit off it than using it as a currency.

Not to mention that the majority of the world population is dumb as fuck, especially when it comes to computer science, they'll always be skeptical about it. And don't forget the greatest obstacle of all, the government and the international financial system, which wouldn't just accept this shift of power

What is your opinion of the intrinsic value of a bitcoin and how did you reach your calculation?

>The bitcoin bubble is that there are other better and cheaper coins that out perform Bitcoin by a lot.
These coins lack the network effect, which is the largest explanatory component of bitcoins value.

>Do the math yourself. Take the value of one BTC and count how many LTC you can buy. Now see what happens if LTC goes up by 50 USD.
T. brainlet

>
Once people realize that Bitcoin is a risk low reward coin that is out performed in every possible way the bubble will either pop or ooze quickly.
Only if that coin can defeat bitcoin's first mover/network effect advantage

I just gave you my opinion. What calculation?

This. Normies are retarded. They can't see things happening they just can't accept.
In a way Trump literally got me into Crypto. It felt like in my group of friends or anyone I know I was the only one who saw Trump coming. They told me I'm a retard and that I'm crazy and that's when I realized that Normies have no idea what they are talking about. They only copy opinions of others without thinking for themselves.

Correct. Personally I don't see Bitcoin as "rising" in value but "correcting" against the dollar due to intrinsic value. It is free of CB control allowing it to adjust unlike precious metals being pounded in the futures markets.

As long as CB monetary policy is lax, credit is cheap, governments offer safety nets and economic report data is manipulated crypto currencies will continue to correct to fair value. TLDR fiat is worthless and coming to light.

Do you have a calculation from which you derived the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is it something other than Metcalfe's law?

This This This

Bitcoin is a bubble and the real winners in all this is coinbase and mt gox

Bitcoin also is more stable than other currencies due to the sheer amount of users. It's only growing in stability with time.
Just like Alts can soar so much higher they also crash so much harder.
Bitcoin is the save heaven in times of doubt and the moment [future Altcoin that supposedly replaces Bitcoin] crashes people will flock back to it.

Bitcoin won't be used for transactions a lot, it's gonna be a store of value. You might wanna dismiss this argument but that's precisely what Bitcoin is gonna be.

>is literally any exponential graph the next silver

There are more and more companies and stores accepting BTC. Current technological revolution has a snowball effect. Just watch the current german media. Everyone's talking about Bitcoin - what it is, how you can buy it etc. We will see a surge in interested and adoptions in 2018/19. We live in an era where network effects are everything and I have the strong feeling that adoption phases of new things like Snapchat or selfdriving cars gets shorter and shorter.

Fiat is a currency and currently bitcoin is not. When something's intrinsic value changes much faster than most other things around it it is volatile and people buy and sell it to make money not to buy items. A currency has to be stable for it to be used as a currency. Bitcoin is anything but stable. Bitcoin will have a massive crash because not miss will not just hold when the coin finally falls. Everyone will hop out and it will fall to 1000 or less and take every altcoin with it. This is how the flippening happens but the coins that rise are the ones with a real world use.

>BTC mining network consumes 343MW of power
>cost per kwh: $0.10
>bitcoins mined per hour: 150

Therefore, price per BTC ~ $280
That is the fundamental price of a bitcoin.

I mostly agree but the norman fueling this are only interested in one thing, price up, that is all there is to a lot of this money and I don't know how much red they can take before the discount snowballs but i wouldn't imagine anywhere near as much as the autists.

We have to be careful not to get caught out as they start to run the show. Maybe after DYOR the big boys have been impressed with our scam, maybe they can take the reigns from tether and steady us up through turbulence forever while the norman continue to pile into the ship

It doesn't matter if stores accept bitcoin if no one is using bitcoin as a currency. They sell their btc for USD and then go to the store but no one uses their btc in a bubble or exponential rise because they would miss out on potential gains.

>the chart bitcoin brainlets don’t want you to see:

Here’s some more “network effect” that bitcoiners would rather ignore:

If this were the case there would be no miners.

Dotcom bubble is worth nearly 8 trillion today. If BTC still has 50 of the market at that point it would be worth 400K.

Well I've already transferred most of my money to ETH and I'm willing to pay with it. You can avoid major price jumps by simply announcing prices (also) in BTC/ETH/whatever.

> When something's intrinsic value changes
Intrinsic value doesn't change.

> Bitcoin will have a massive crash because not miss will not just hold when the coin finally falls.
Not sure if English is your first language but let me explain this to you. The U.S. markets will not correct the slightest iota because of what I outlined in my first post. The policies have flattened the yield curve and driven every asset class into insane bubbles. These markets are filled with paper assets that will be worthless when the market melts up on that fateful day. Until that time the intrinsic value of Bitcoin as a finite digital currency that can transact around a massive network with billions of dollars worth of infrastructure/projects growing around it will only move up. You have seen nothing yet.

The network effect is not solely reliant on number of transactions. In terms of the three requirements of money (store of wealth, medium of exchange, unit of account) bitcoin functions the worst as a medium of exchange (although much of this is artificial and due to the blocksize limit). Bitcoins use as a store of wealth and unit of account (think altcoins) also adds to the network effect. The fact that bitcoin holds reserve currency status to the entire crypto market and that it is the most secure and liquid trustless store of wealth on earth is far more important than muhhh total transactions. This is reflected in current market prices.

This

It's what I've been saying for weeks.

Exactly, that's why it's all speculation.

Well, the $/kWh varies around the world, and the only ones actually mining for profit nowadays are the big pools: bitman, antpool, btccpool, slushpool etc.

You must be kidding me. Bitcoin intrinsic value is so below 10k that it's laughable. The coin is a piece of shit, does not work as a currency and it's plagued by constant political feuds. For each Bitcoin's feature, there's a top coin that is better at it. Bitcoin only advantage is having been the first coin, but this advantage is being thinned day by day.

Apple products are extremely popular and overpriced because of brand name recognition. When will Apple collapse?
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

You said it yourself. Change in fundamentals. Bitcoin was good because it was a *decentralized* *currency*. It had remarkably low fees and transactions were fast, if compared to alternatives.

Now it's not really decentralized, it's slow and expensive, there are better alternatives, and Core is not innovating any more (all talks and nothing concrete).

Looks like fundamentals HAVE changed, uh?

No decentralized coin is going to stay decentralized, the bigger they get the more centralized they will become, I don't really know what could solve that

HAHAHAH they can accept BTC all they want, but the majority of people won't use it, if paying with BTC means adding 2-15$ to each transaction. Really, do you live in a dream world? Would you use BTC yourself with these fees?

So why is it happening now and not earlier? Bitcoin had been around since 2009, most people have known about it since 2013 bubble.

This looks purely hype-driven to me.

Exactly it's cheaper to take larges sums of btc, move it to USD and then make purchases for items then to buy directly with bitcoin.

...

Market cap cannot be used to compare companies in different industries or sector, so I really don't know why it's being used to compare Bitcoin and internet companies. I guess it's because you don't have any valid arguments and have to resort to the ones that look valid on the surface. top kek

Technicals said Bitcoin was due for a massive pump but not this massive. It should have dumped at 10k tge same way it dumped at 1 at 10 at 100 and at 1000

Except if you think that's bitcoins fundamental, you've got it all wrong. Reframe the question, 'are other, more decentralised coins worth more than bitcoin', the answer is clearly no. This is because, and this is the critical error in reasoning I see on Veeky Forums, bitcoins strength is not in the decentralisation of it's hashing power/development, but the decentralisation of it's initial distribution.

Because bitcoin was created when cryptocurrencies were incredibly niche, arguably non existent, and spent MANY years entirely neglected by the vast majority of society, it's initial distribution was uncontrolled. ANYONE could have bought bitcoin for pennies, consequently it is extremely unlikely that there are some shadowy figures who own 99% of bitcoins.

Most cryptocurrencies created today are very slick and well marketed and promise these revolutionary new paradigms and business partnerships, essentially they have a very small group with a very strong incentive to lie to you in order to get your money. Bitcoins fundamental is that people *trust* bitcoin because of where, how, and who created it. Aside from conspiracy theories about NWOs, bitcoins lineage is its fundamental.

Because the majority of people has "large sums of BTC"? What about those that have yet to buy in? You're literally grasping at straws. Bitcoin is not good as a form of currency, get over it.

What, me worry?

Actually I'd pay with BTC once my TenX card arrives, because I would have more BTC in my wallet in my first place because I wouldn't need to keep Fiat money for expenses

I refer you to
bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

Also, scammy ICOs don't really count as Bitcoin competitors.

I really can't tell what your point it. My post is still fact. People with no money in bitcoin will uyse USD period. Right now no one will use bitcoin as a currency because it is not feasible.

bitcoin isnt silver
silver isnt bitcoin

that was easy

Reminder that a few days ago not even 100m tethers cold stop it from crashing and the only thing that stopped it was people being prevented from cashing out due to coin base, gemini, bitstamp going down "having problems".

It's deluded to think current btc price is due to natural demand.

Yeah fuck normies especially females. They love to play judge by using a bunch of rules they didn't even create so they act so high and mighty. But notice when the rules change they suddenly pretend they never believed them and bandwagon to the new rules? They really have no shame or brains for that matter.

That said BTC needs to burst already so the alts have a chance everyone. Otherwise crypto is gonna be held back and we will never reach lamboland before we actually retire.

I'm not sure about that, with coinbase down the norman forces were completely cut off, they weren't able to buy rather than weren't able to cash out

>decentralisation of it's initial distribution

This.
The fact that bitcoin was worth $0 at it's inception sets it apart completely from all other crypto. Anyone could participate at zero cost. Everything that's come since then has had some initial value associated with it, whether in relation to BTC or USD.

Now we are in the era of PoS and naturally in the absence of a minable coin the only way to disperse it widely is to have people buy in at initial offering. I wish people realized how PoS goes against everything crypto was designed to solve.

Still a better distribution than literally any other 'currency', including fiat, gold, etc.

Conventional market risk across all asset classes are at record highs with paper thin yields. This is driven by the Bernanke/Yellen monetary policies. Government has co-opted with this is providing security net promises if their investments go bust. The CBs U.S. Fed, BoJ, ECB along with others in the west buy each others debt an perform cordinated injects of capital to flot the overly indebted markets. If this wasn't the case then I would agree with you but the entrance of large entities into the cryptospace is what draws the hype but is fear on their part.

Also a key aspect is that none of those people have the ability to change the course of bitcoin, not without monumental coordination vs the federal reserve or any other cryptocurrency. People trust in bitcoin because of its humble beginnings.

This. Time tested and organic growth has made it the "reserve currency" of crypto for better or worse. All inflows lead back to BTC. The ETH shills try to show us a greater network effect but it is almost time for the bi-annual security hole hack.

Holy shit

I read btw began trading at .008 cents and quickly mooned to 8 cents.

since you cant cash out there is no way for bitcoin to crash unless another normiecoin emerges

>providing security net promises if their investments go bust

well this sounds like a pretty sweet deal, I think I would rather be in dip-proof stock than roler-coaster crypto if it's true.

>nocoiners have been reduced from muh tulips to, i-its not any better than silver or gold
kek, the absolute state of nocoiners.

Bitcoin doesn't need to burst. Bitcoin needs to kill Fiat first. Then the technological advantages of other cryptos can kill Bitcoin.

We'll see who's laughing when the drop hits hard.

This is also why I support coins like VTC, GRS and FTC. PoW is the way to go but they need to be TRULY centralised.

I know Veeky Forums calls ASIC resistance a meme but the ability to mine coina for yourself and never need to give any money to anyone to get it is what made Bitcoin so big in the first place. ASIC centralization is what's slowly gonna kill Bitcoin though.
Unless a new technology arrives that makes ASIC miners worthless and distributes mining power among all people again

Yup. I'm not even a nocoiner and it seem like it should be p fucking clear to anyone with a functioning brain this shits going to pop hard.

Deluded BTC hodlers are worse than deluded linkies. You've only made gains if you cash out at the top you cucks. Enjoy waiting until next summer for these prices again.

On the first ever website that allowed purchasing of Bitcoin, which came about around 2010 I think, the price was somewhere between 1000-1300 BTC for $1

Been watching since it was under $1 and got in when it was at $300, drops happen and it will recover just as it has in the past. You'll be going
>SEE LOOK AT THAT CRASH
when it "drops" to $13k in a few months.

Here

Bitcoin in specific, but crypto as a whole, now has a number of test cases where it has thrived in failed economic systems. Crypto paired with physical precious metals, cash, art, bullets and booze will allow you to determine your own destiny. To note I am not a BTC maximalist but a Dollar bear.

If you want to ride the dip proof stock market educate yourself first. Gregory Mannarino is a great source of information as he knows it is all bull shit and is also quite bullish on crypto. When the bond market fails it is going to fail hard and you will be one of the last to know.

And do you have any sensible reason as for why it's gonna crash?