/5eg/ - D&D 5th edition general

My setting has City Elves, theyre roughly a quarter human and the result of being born into slavery for ten generations under human rule, in one of the "evil" kingdoms.

The elvish isles dont want them back because theyre racial supremacists locked down tighter than japan pre Commodore Perry

>Why are elfs the best?
Mostly due to longevity giving them time to master quite a few things, it's why adventurer elves tend to only be around 20-40 years old.

>And what is your favourite kind of elf?
Probably Sun Elves from the Forgotten Realms, or AD&D Drow.

>Are there any elves in your setting which stand out from the rest?
Not particularly, there are a few different cultures among the subraces and some are weirder than others, but none stick out as a sub-race.

>Do you keep elf subtypes to a minimum, or is every elf clan a different 'type' of elf?
I steal from FR's, Sun, Moon, Wood, Sea, Drow, and just have different cultures with different concentrations of the elven types.

Yeah, let's compare it to other capstones:

Ranger (pic related):
>add wisdom mod to dmg or attack roll
>only once per turn
>the bonus doesn't even have a minimum of 1 (what if the ranger is fighting a wisdom devourer or something and his mod becomes 0 or less?)
>against one of your favored enemies
>AGAINST ONE OF YOUR FAVORED ENEMIES
>at level twenty, you have three chosen from: abberations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undeed.
>3 out of 13 options; 23% chance that an encounter involves a favored enemy given that the encounter is random; 77% chance you DON'T get to use your capstone feature

We'll compare this to Barbarian next...

Ranger is easily the weakest class in the PHB. Nobody with a brain is going to deny this. It's only ever useful if your DM is ultra-anal about the details of your group's supplies and travel. (And even then, 90% of the utility in that department a ranger provides can be replicated by a Druid.)

Hunter has some pretty solid archetype features at least, so you get to pretend you're not an underwhelming class at low levels at least. You still get outperformed by every other martial however, and it only gets worse as you level up.

I find it especially hilarious that a Valor Bard can outperform a ranger in virtually every way while still getting a fair chunk of their gimmicks, since Magical Secrets lets you pilfer the unique level 4 and 5 ranger spells that are balanced around half-caster progression 4-7 levels early. (Hello, swift quiver.)

>changing racial enemy at lng/short rests houserule
>MUH RPG FLAVOR of rangers carrying an undying hatred since they were little babbs!

It really says something when even in 5e, where like half the classes have underwhelming capstones, Ranger still stands out amongst them as being awful.

Barbarian (pic related - note, they also get unlimited rages at level 20)
-increase str and con (and their maximums) by 4
>+2 to str and con saving throws
>+2 to hit on ALL attacks on ANY creature
>+2 damage on ALL attacks on ANY creature
>+40 hitpoints
>+2AC (Unarmored Defense)
>as per Indomitable Might, a minimum of 24 (in all likelyhood, the Barb has max Str) on ALL strength checks
-no daily limit on rages; rages can persist indefinitely (no penalty, so the barbarian is just going to be raging all day by default, meaning...)
>advantage on ALL str checks ever
>advantage on ALL str saving throws ever
>+4 to ALL strength-modified attacks ever
Note*: when a barb reaches level 20, he gets a +6 to damage on ALL ATTACKS EVER
>resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing ALWAYS
>can't be surprised EVER (by feral instinct) since he will be raging by default
>massive bonus to relentless rage: enjoy your +2 bonus to the Con save you get to make EVERY time you drop below 0 hitpoints
Assuming the barb has maxed his Con, he automatically succeeds the first con save upon hitting 0 HP (d20 roll of 1: 1 + 7 +6 = 14)

And that's not even considering the archetype features

the barbarian and wizard seem the best by far. Barbarian capstone is better than Foresight. All martial should be getting an ability on par with the Barbarian capstone at level 17.

I don't even want to bother doing more of these (might whip them up in an inforgraphic).

But let's just condense Ranger vs Barbarian capstone

Ranger (20Wis/20Dex)
>23% chance of getting +5 to the attack roll OR the damage of an enemy ONCE per round (+1.15 damage or to hit once a round)
>...that's literally it, just that one thing

Barbarian (20Str/20Con)
>24Str/24Con
>permanent, unlimited +2 to hit on all attacks against any creature
>permanent, unlimited +12 (+6 on two attacks) damage per turn against any creature
>permanent +2AC
>permanent advantage on str checks and saving throws; permanently gets a minimum 24 on all strength checks
>permanent resistance to physical damage
>100% chance to drop to 1 HP when you would instead die once per short rest
>95% chance to do it AGAIN without a short rest
>always gets to participate in surprise rounds

The wizard capstone isn't actually that great. One free cast of one level 3 per day? Actually a pretty minor deal at level 20.

The level 18 wizard feature, the one that gives you unlimited casts of one level 1 and one level 2 though? That one is fucking nuts. It's basically the class's real capstone.

>The wizard capstone isn't actually that great. One free cast of one level 3 per day?
Actually, it's a free casting each of two third-level spells and it refreshes on short rests.

Agreed though, Spell Mastery is much better.

I really like the material made by Matt Mercer, but it doesn't have the stamp of approval that the featured DM's guild items do. However the quality of his work has made it the measuring stick by which I grade all other homebrew material. Would it be too far to add it to the list?

>gunslinger made by Matt Mercer
>McCree voiced by Matt Mercer
>implying it isn't just a Blizzard shill attempt
Wake up sheeple

...

God damn, Spell Mastery is the shit:

>unlimited castings of Misty Step (bonus action cast)
>unlimited castings of Shield (reaction cast)

That's it, my next character will be a wizard.

Anyone have advice on how to play an Eldritch Knight?

two third level spell scrolls per short rest is pretty nuts. counterspell, haste/slow, dispelled magic, fly are all good spells. lower level spells, except absorb elements and shield will eat into your actions without as much influence.

every spell is shield, except absorb elements

Just survived two deadly encounters our DM threw at us back to back. We weren't even running on full resources.
He didn't let us level up even though xp was more than enough to go up an entire level.

Had lots of fun though. Felt good to win. Still, I feel as though he's a bit on the side of adversarial DM. I just wanna play a lighthearted campaign that spans a year or so, mostly medium to hard fights, with deadly reserved for BBEGs. Is that so much to ask, senpaitachi?

>senpaitachi
oh shit the filter goes plural, didn't know that.

barbarian just needs a subclass with nature magic and a subclass with animal companions and its all set to replace the ranger as the premier wilderness fighter.

you're also getting your 9th level spells around that time, which is another game-changer. not a capstone but it has the same feel.

>lower level spells will eat into your actions

>gain 30 extra feet of instantaneous extra movement for a bonus action each turn (basically super-powered cunning action dash)

Shield is alright, but only once per turn (costs reaction), so you don't want to be putting yourself in positions in which you would NEED to use it.

Always-on Detect Magic sounds pretty good to me.

Does the same go for Arcane Trickster?

Relativity new D&D player here looking for some multi-class help.

Currently Rogue 3 in my campaign and am looking into possibly going into Ranger 5 in an attempt to make a strong longbow build. Extra attack, archery, and colossus slayer seem to compliment this well. My question is, when is an optimal level to begin multi-classing in this situation?

shield lasts until your next turn. you have +5 AC forever, unless you use your reaction on something else. using misty step means you can only use your action to cast a cantrip.

misty step and shield won't do anything if you get power word: stunned, or any other bullshit scaling throw cc. that's why I say free counterspell for every short rest is worth more.

how much does all this actually matter when you have wish?

> Favorite kind of elf
I lean toward spooky fey-style elfs over the haughty kind.

I did kind of appreciate what Iron Kingdoms did/tried to do with elves being a young upstart race of arrogant assholes, though. I feel like hubris as a result of having been explicitly told by your gods that you're an improvement over the other races was an interesting twist.

I have a dude who's really enjoying Ranger, even with a Druid in the party.

Then again he only took five levels in it and then went Rogue. Plus it's OOTA so it's been 90% Underdark all the way, combined with the background feature that's Outlander but for Underdark it's been useful.

Wish can backfire pretty easily, the only thing it safely does is replicate spells.

Blowing a 9th level spell slot casually is fairly silly user. Wish has some real drawbacks too, if you don't just copy a lower level spell effect. Even at a wizard strongest you can only cast wish twice per day, and why waste it on basic combat?

>The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can’t be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn’t 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light actvity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress.

No, just go Fighter5

What you want:
>extra attack
>archery fighting style
>+1d8 once per round

Fighter5 gets:
>extra attack
>archery fighting style
>extra action once per short rest (can be used to fire a bow 4 times in one round)
>bonus action to heal 1d10+5 once per short rest

If you go Champion, you have a 10% chance to crit on every attack roll

If you go Battlemaster, you get 4 d8 superiority dice and three maneuvers (if you pick precision strike, you get to add a d8 to your attack rolls that miss, essentially; handy for an archer); the dice refresh on short rests

If you go Eldritch Knight, you get two wizard cantrips (true strike for advantage on the next turn's first attack (if you have no other way to trigger sneak attack) and ray of frost (can drop a pursuer's movement by 10ft and cunning action dash if you need to get away from someone)) and 4 first level wizard spells with 3 spell slots (Shield is really good for a rogue and pick another three)
Spellcasting ability here is intelligence. Your rogue probably has decent int? What rogue archetype did you choose?

With ranger, the additional useful features you get up til lvl 5 is:
>learn an additional language from favored enemy
>{2,2},{3,1},{4,0} choose one where {x,y} x is first level ranger spells known and y is second level ranger spells known
>4 first level ranger spell slots and 2 second level ranger spell slots
>primeval awareness as a 1st level spell (expends slots)
Keep in mind that wisdom is the spellcasting ability for ranger spells.

Do you guys think a githyanki raid force in the Sword Coast would make for ainteresting "BBEG"?

If my understanding of the multiclass spellslot rules is right, as wizard can you learn a spell you have the spellslot for but not the wizard level?

being able to replicate any spell, from any list, instantly and without cost is really, really great. you should never use any other feature of wish, it's a trap to lure you away from the true power of the spell.

MM did some DMing for wizards proper recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if his archetypes get featured as a result

Thank you for such a helpful post. When would you recommend to begin dipping into fighter?

I guess it depends on which rogue archetype you chose. At rogue5, you get uncanny dodge, which could save your life. But if you chose arcane trickster, you can get shield at rogue3 and trivialize uncanny dodge twice per day (you're a ranged rogue so you shouldn't be getting hit all that much anyway).

Anytime after level 3 is fine really. If you wait til 5, you get uncanny dodge but then you're also 2 levels behind on your extra attack. I'd go for it here at level 3.

I could give you some more suggestions to make the most out of your rogue archetype if you'd like to let me know which one you chose.

I chose the arcane trickster archetype and did choose shield as one of my spells. My original idea was to get something with the archery style to balance the sharpshooter feat.

The most important thing to remember is that you are not a Fighter/Mage, you are a Fighter with a few nifty magic tricks. Your magic should focus on utility and support, don't try to be half-warrior, half-blaster or some shit like that, it won't work (or at least, there are much better ways to do it with other classes).

Okay, so quick question
Assume a rogue has the magic initiate feat, and has the green-flame blade cantrip
On a melee sneak attack with a shortsword, would they be able to add the cantrip damage as part of the attack? So whatever the sneak attack damage is +1d8?

That is a possible interpretation, but not the intended one. Basically, when learning and preparing spells, you're only supposed to consider the levels in the class for which you are learning and preparing spells. You only combine your levels to determine the levels of your spell slots.

Of course, they left the wording of this a little too ambiguous, so a base reading leaves it open to interpretation. Basically, like a lot of the vague rules that resulted from WotC's "natural language" kick, you'll need to ask your DM for their interpretation just to be sure.

Do you already have the feat from Human Variant? I'd say either way you should go to rogue4 for the ability score improvement/feat (I forgot to consider this).

Offsetting the -5 from Sharpshooter:
>precision attack maneuver from level 3 battlemaster fighter (4x per short rest)
>advantage: lots of ways to grant yourself this if you're creative; if you find you don't use shield very much, you can ask your DM if you can switch to Find Familiar on one of your level ups: take flying snake or owl and it can use its action every turn (no penalty to your actions) to fly next to a target, use the Help action, and fly away (flying snake and owl have Flyby which means they're immune to opportunity attacks); there's also the True Strike cantrip if you're desperate
>fighter1 gets archery (+2 to range attacks)

I'd say definitely take one more rogue level to take Sharpshooter if you haven't yet or bump dex up.

...

check it yo. FUCK elf fags

Yes. You can apply sneak attack damage to a GFB attack, assuming the normal conditions for sneak attack are met.

GFB and BB are notable for being melee weapon attacks, NOT melee spell attacks, so you can use things like sneak attack, manuvers, or anything else you could use on a normal attack alongside it.

Cheers, thought so but he used it against another player when the other guy initiated PvP and took off a quarter of the guy's health in a single blow and kept dodging his spells because they guy kept using ones with dex saving throws, it seemed a little OP

As the somatic component you make a melee weapon attack so SA should applyas long as you meet the usual requirements for it.

Also if you want a Swordcasting rogue then rather take a level in dragon sorcerrer for free mage armour.
Pick swashbuckler as your archetype since it benefits from high Cha and nets you a 100% safe disengage/dash.
Then learn booming blade since it is beter than green flame blade on one target.
Get your self the defensive duelist feat and laugh at your DM trying to do anything to you in melee.

I'm multiclassing as an Ancients Paladin/ Archfey Warlock but have no idea what his Personality/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws should be. I've got a vague idea that he should have a somewhat twisted idea of what "beauty" and "the light" are (as I'm certain the Fey themselves would, considering their fickle nature), and that he should have a strong devotion to his master, but beyond that I'm drawing a blank. I don't even know what the price was for my pact yet.

Any ideas?

Courtly love! Arthurian knights were constantly getting seduced by weird magical bitches. Maybe he was literally seduced by his patron, who requires him to be faithful to her and forswear all other romance even though she rarely makes time for him (both because she's flighty and because time passes at an irregular rate in the Feywild.) Also, she's already married, and her husband is the jealous type. Also, she's carrying the paladin's child and it is 100% certain that the child will grow up to kill his father and undo all the good he ever did in his life. That's a pretty good price. It's a classic, and it gives you and the DM something to work with without making the character immediately unplayable.

Is the patron also his half sister?
Arthurian legends were pretty magical realm

What's your metamagic? Maybe you want stinking cloud (sulphurous fumes) or Web (Restrained is great with dex save spells, flammable). Immolation still looks like a weak spell to me.

The ranger-specific spells are still balanced to their spell level. Plus you'd need a fighter or ranger dip for the fighting style. I wish people would think before they regurgitate this meme.

There was also that time when Sir Bors the Younger was very aggressively courted by a whole pack of succubi.

No. There's an example and everything.

Sharpshooter is great for bypassing cover for ranged sneak attacks, but be aware you'll often risk more damage than you stand to gain with the power attack. Getting battle master is a great idea, if that's how you want to play it.

Should be starting a campaign this Saturday. What's a good way to make Sorcerer fun? Going with a few newbies so leaning on a fun build.

I was thinking of a LG Tiefling with Wild Magic and a huge guilt complex due to a childhood of terrible, magical "Oops"es.

Technically, you're adding the sneak attack to the cantrip, but yeah. Everyone else got this covered.

That can be very not fun if you're always the center of attention and always accidentally fucking things up. Use spells that can help other people share the fun, like Enlarge/Reduce.

Be a James Bond type secret agent. Tons of social skills, magical assistance through spells like Charm Person, treat your Firebolt like a pistol, that sort of thing.

I really don't think being lawful and having wild magic fits.

You can't control having wild magic.
Hell, the reason wild magic first came into being in the Forgotten Realms was because the LG god of paladins smacked the LE god of tyranny so hard it broke the fabric of reality.

Wild magic is less about being a whacky random crazy caster than it is about having accidental magic

I made a wild magic sorcerer for a future campaign that is the grandson of a djinn (genasi) and can only cast wish, the wild magic being the problems that come with messing around with that spell

Since Fighters and Rangers can take the Archery fighting style for +2 AB with their ranged weapons, Sharpshooter is less "dangerous" for them to use than GWM, at least on their own. The ubiquity of knockdown-granted advantage for GWMs kind of shifts it back, but if you're not in a party that is going to knock stuff down, routinely find yourself firing at enemies who are too distant from allies to be knocked down, or have allies who can give you advantage through other means, Sharpshooter is a lot better for pumping out the damage every round.

This ain't Mystara, magic isn't inherently chaotic anymore, and "random" magic isn't any more intrinsicly chaotic. Standard FR uses of alignment don't punish you for accidental or non-purposeful acts; if you wanted to heal a guy and somehow blow him up with Wild Magic, you don't actually get Evil or Chaotic points for that (but a Lawful character would most likely try to hedge his bets against that kind of accident as much as possible).

Well I'd make the point that continuing to use something that is inherently chaotic is a chaotic act.

why is character development in 5e so bad? half of the feats are garbage and there are tons of trap options. supposed to play a game of this soon and I'm already not looking forward to it and wishing we'd play something else

No. Unless you have the means of scribing a spell you know as, say, a Sorcerer down and then copying it into your book as a Wizard (transforming it into a Wizard spell) you're out of luck. This obviously doesn't work for spells that aren't on the Wizard's list to begin with, whether you gain them by multiclassing or through Magic Initiate.

In every edition of D&D that has feats you're lucky if half the feats are good.

A character can be special and unique without requiring options from a book to make it so.

Feats are an optional rule
>Tons of trap options
Porque?

But it's not inherently chaotic, that's the whole point. It is random but not chaotic. It's not your fault.

The only time Wild Magic should shift you towards Chaotic is when you are being deliberately reckless. Unfortunate accidents are just that. It's the same as if you were trying to slip some fleeing child-thieves on Grease as a non-Wild Mage and one of them spins around and bonks his head just so and dies from a concussion. The result was largely unforeseeable, so you're not a murderer and the universe doesn't move your alignment. Now, if you're on an elevated platform or a bridge with no railings and you slick those same child-thieves and one goes flying off to their doom, that really is your fault, even if you didn't intend it.

Even despite your trips, I'm afraid to say you're wrong.

5e is the most trap-option-lite edition so far.

it probably is a weak spell, but I like it.
It's only a vocal spell, which is awesome, for one.
and my metamagic options are quickened, twinned, and heightened. I could change those up, but I don't really see the point.

Is there any reason to play a Warlock other than if you enjoy the concept of the otherworldly patron?

You only get 5th level spell slots, and the patron abilities are very situational.

I'm running a game right now where one player is playing a Great Old One warlock. I've been working with him on good ideas on what he can do with the character, and it seems like the best option is for him to be a spy. Since he gets telepathic powers, is good at deceit, and can get the disguise self evocation to basically shapeshift at will. Other than that I don't see where else he can go.

This is complicated by the fact he has 10's in everything except for Charisma and Con which he has 20 and 17 in respectively.

yeah, but there were so many in 3.5 that you could pull together almost any character concept you wanted. I'm not saying that 3.5 is perfect (because it isn't) but I look at what my future options are for my character in this and it's so boring. "lol just rp" isn't much of an answer, especially when games like Shadow of the Demon Lord manage to give you tons more options while being a simpler game

I was considering playing an Inquisitive rogue, until I read this piece of garbage:

>At 9th level, you gain advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) check made on your turn to find a hidden creature or object if you do not move during that turn. If you use this ability before moving, you cannot move or ready movement during your turn.

mike mearls is a fucking potato

>half of the feats are garbage and there are tons of trap options.
Only if your game consists of literally nothing but killing monsters all day.

Is there some kind of item that his patron could bestow on him that might give him a more versatile/expanded role in the party? An item with one or more spells attached, or an item that amplifies his psychic powers?

>You only get 5th level spell slots
You only get 5th level spell slots for your per-short-rest ability. You still get one spell per day of every level above 5th, they just didn't want unlimited daily high-level spells.

Did you gloss over Mystic Arcanum? They get the same level of spells as other casters.

I should clarify, because someone's going to read the book and say "BUT THE LORE SUGGESTION SAYS YOU COULD GET MAGIC FROM LIMBO OR SOME SHIT AND THAT PLACE IS SUPER CHAOTIC".

The source is irrelevant for this purpose. A rock that grows on Mechanus into a perfect cube is no more NECESSARILY inherently Lawful as a result of being formed by that plane's laws than another rock that naturally grows into a perfect cube because that's its crystalline structure. It is not necessarily infused with Lawful energies or anything like that; it's just a cubic rock in both cases.

Usage of a certain power source does generally "taint" characters. If you enter into a pact with a demon in exchange for power, that is potentially a one-time Evil act; if this power's persistence does not rest on you continuously serving to the demon's pleasure or performing Evil, you are free to do a shitload of Good with it and be a net positive for Good across the multiverse. Just because you're killing that vampire with Hellfire instead of Angelfire or Vanillafire, or ripping him in half with rippling muscles you got from a JO sesh with a demon, doesn't make that slaying less Good.

A Wild Sorcerer who is Chaotic to begin with is probably not going to care about the consequences of the random "chaoticness" of his spellcasting, but it's that lack of caution that is going to shift him further towards Chaos, not his continued usage of an unreliable power source. Characters put their faith in or utilize all sorts of unreliable people, objects, and plans all the time and aren't punished for it because they either have a reasonable expectation that things won't go awry or are not the primary actors in something that does (which is all alignment shifts care about--who actually did what, not who told them to in a way that was left open to dangerous interpretation).

Less than half of 3.5 feats were good. The great majority sucked. Realistically you used the same set of feats for most characters based on their role, and a lot of the feats were just shitty tax-feats on actual good ones.

I guess you're going to need to make your character unique by actually roleplaying for once then, won't cha?
Don't worry; it doesn't require dice or rules or anything to do that part, just an imagination.

Isn't that an Unearthed Arcana article?
As in "This is not even playtested, so ask your DM about it and make changes suitable for your campaign."?

And in 3.5e it just came down to knowing what mechanically worked and what didn't, and building around that.

if the rules don't facilitate roleplay and character differentiation, what's the point?

I might as well just do some improv rp.

Most of the level 9 archetype abilities for rogues are on that same level anyway.

And you're spot on about what people actually played in 3.5 if they wanted a character that could survive past level 5.

I suppose that could help, yeah. He hasn't gotten his pact boon yet since we've only played once so far.

I was more asking a more general question about the class and using him as an example.

I guess I did miss that. Still seems less useful than the other casters, though. It seems like Warlock's are more useful for utility stuff, I guess. I've only played core Pathfinder before this so I'm not familiar with the class yet.

Warlocks get up to 9th level spells, they just get a single spell of 6, 7, 8 and 9th levels, in exchange they can shit out 2-3 spells per short rest guaranteed and always at max level (5)
There are also invocations that give extra spells/special skills, and the best damage cantrip in the game

If he picks tome he gets rituals and 2 bonus cantrips from ANY CLASS

If he picks chain he gets a CR1 familiar with the ability to turn invisible or other crazy shit, plus eventually hold monster for free

If he picks blade he gets to always have a magical weapon for any circumstance that he can dismiss at will

As a GOOlock he gets what basically amounts to unlimited telepathy from the start and some of the most awesome mindfuckery spells in the game

Warlock is not just fine, it's fucking fantastic and if you give him a special item you will just have it cross the line into broken

How could I make Hobgoblins into a playable race?

3.5 babbies are spoiled as hell.
We can't help you then if you can't wrap your head around it, sorry mang.

Here's the door

Just making sure:
A fire draconic sorcerer can't apply their charisma bonus or elemental adept 1's count as 2s to the web spell, correct?
Specifically the bit about it catching fire and dealing 2d4 damage.

That would mean the minimum for starting your turn it it would change from a measly 2 damage, to more impressive 9, especially since you would be normally hitting them with a fire spell.

I ran a campaign with a warlock player up to level 20. Before level 11, the warlock was less useful than the wizard and sorcerer in the group due to falling back on cantrips so much sooner than them. Once Mystic Arcanum comes online and they start gaining more pact slots, they get a lot more useful. They don't have the greatest high level spell selection but there's something functional of each level.

Warlocks look a lot less impressive when they just Hex and Eldritch Blast all day. When they're dropping multitarget control spells or stuff like Flesh to Stone, Force Cage, Dominate Monster, and Foresight, they look a lot more impressive.