Machine Spirits and Cogitators

So I was thinking about it.

AI is considered Tech-Heresy of the highest possible calibre due to the whole Men of Iron incident and multitude of other things that comes with it, yet the Imperium uses much more simplified versions of it (like in the case of the Legio Cybernetica where a robot will do the same order over and over again unless a Tech-Priest will tell it to do something else and will not think for itself), or have the whole Land Raider Machine Spirit thing that has organic elements in it that gives the land-gunship some measure of sentience. Not to mention Titans...

So what is stopping the Imperium from simply growing human brains, packing them with shitloads of cybernetics and then putting them into some of their vehicles and Legio Cybernetica robots?

Would that be also considered Tech-Heresy? Or simply would that be too risky?

Firstly, let's note that Abominable Intelligence is almost explicitly artificially sapient, and the Imperium makes use of sentient computers all the time.

Secondly, Titans do, in fact, have Abominable Intelligence inside of them. Whether the AdMech is lying through their teeth or just don't know, we're not sure.

Finally, the processes that go on in the Human brain are both incredibly complex and hilariously inefficient for a system that only requires sentience, the AdMech have a better grasp of computing (yes, some of them do follow the whole "prayer to make it work" meme but most of them actually have a really good grasp of technological sciences) than us and could probably just whip up another machine spirit for their automated machines, like Tranatula Sentry Guns or Robots, instead of making a horrible mishmesh of a randomly self-rewriting biological cerebrum and cold, calculating machinery.

I thought the machine spirit was just AI but the Mechanicus were just too retarded to realize it or they branded it the machine spirit because AI is outlawed

There's a difference between Artificial Intelligence and Abominable Intelligence, but most people don't have the knowledge to understand that the former isn't anything special at all, while the latter tries to portray the stereotypical sci-fi "AI," as sapient machines. Machine Spirits are lots of things, from basic automated software and hardware programs to sentient routines within targeting systems and the like, but none of them (bar Titans) are Abominable Intelligence.

So cybernetically enhanced brains for machines wouldn't work jack?

Or would multiple cyber-brains work if they'd be linked in perfect synchronization?

Actually the Machine Spirit is something that is partially organic and behaves better, while Legio Cybernetica robots like the Castellan have logic gates (aka: they cannot think for themselves and will do the same Emperor-damned thing they were ordered unless a Tech-Priest will order them to do something else).

Cybernetically enhanced brains would work and are sometimes used, but I really don't see any practical reason into utilizing one over a more advanced cogitator network. The brain will slowly rewrite itself due to how our cerebral cells work while the alternative remains almost perfect in comparison, in addition the latter is more easily programmable and more efficient for logical processing.

But what if you wanted a sentient machine (not too intelligent, but not stupid) with a personality of its own, yet you don't want to create something that would be labelled as Abominable Intelligence like the Dark AdMech do it 24h a day and that wouldn't result in new Men of Iron?

I think placing cybernetic brains into a machine or robot would be acceptable.

Or no matter what Tech-Priests would call it Abominable Intelligence and call you a Heretek for that?

That makes sense as a concept, but it does really sound like a forcefully attempted workaround with little practical benefits. So if you can think of a reason why you'd need a true personality-bearing automaton without it being Abominable Intelligence, go ahead.

Would like to in order to make machines more than constructs of steel and circuits, but with how you said about Cogitators being more efficient, then it'd be quite difficult.

How about combining cyber-brain/s with a cogitator? Though that would depend on the size of the cogitator and the machine one would put something like that in.

Ever played Mass Effect? It's the difference between a VI and an AI.

Played it, but never finished...nor read all the codex entries.

Never played the two other Mass Effects.

Thats basically what they do. High end machine spirits are AIs in all but name. They're not considered heresy because having some "wetware" means (they are considered too) have a soul.
An abominable intelligence isn't hated because its a machine intelligence, its bad because its a souless intelligence.

So that's that then?

Sweet, so machines with personalities and self-awareness can be use by the Imperium as long as they have something that would be called a soul?

A virtual inteligence is Siri on steroids. It can work within some parameters but it is just a human machine interface.
A true AI needs to be sentient. "I am who I am" "cogito ergo sum".
Most machine spirits are smart dog level of inteligence. Yes, they know friends from foe and can engage by themselves in some ways. But he won't ask if it has a soul.

>So what is stopping the Imperium from simply growing human brains, packing them with shitloads of cybernetics and then putting them into some of their vehicles and Legio Cybernetica robots?

You mean like what they already do?

Oh, so that's that.

They do it? Thought they have logic gates and the AI is on the level of a seven-year old child.

cloning isn't a really great idea in 40k tho. old fluff has it that clones have extremely bad luck and are more likely to be blanks

The thing that differenciates machine-spirits and AIs is the ability to evolve by itself.
AIs are adaptive and self-enhancing; given enough time and stimulii, an AI could reprogram itself into anything.
machine-spirits on the other hand are blocked by their initial programming.
It's not a visible frontier, however. The Mechanicus and the Inquisition have varying thoughts on what constitutes an artificial intelligence. As a safety measure, they use human brain tissue as a base, so it's harder for the machine to replicate itself.
There's also the soul thing, as anons have explained.

I'm kinda sad we didn't get a faction of rogue human AIs from the DAoT. This way they wouldn't have to butcher the Oldcron fluff to create the new warring factions of murderous robots.

>So what is stopping the Imperium from simply growing human brains, packing them with shitloads of cybernetics and then putting them into some of their vehicles and Legio Cybernetica robots?
Yes? That's what most servitors are.

It's only the Afriel regiments that suffered from that issue. DAoT clones weren't soulless, and most SM clones only mutated due to imperfect protocols and astartes enhancements. And for all we know, Kriegers are clones.

Also, one of the two surviving last chancers was an Afriel with a death wish, so it's not that bad.

As I understand it, machine spirit is something of a catch-all term that covers everything from a Norden Bomb Sight to Windows 98 to a cybernetic brain with organic components.

a true AI would be something that can make its own decisions without organic components, regardless of how it arrives at those decisions. (Probably through statistical analysis)

Abaddon seems to have good luck if the rumors of him being the clone son of Horus are true.

>Yes? That's what most servitors are.
Actually Servitors are cyborg savants rather than actual machines.

Well then there is more proof that you can do a self-aware machine as long as it has a soul as anons proved it in the thread.

>Actually Servitors are cyborg savants rather than actual machines.
Huh? What part of vat-grown human brain packed with cybernetics and placed inside a vehicle/bipedal chassis is irreconcilable with cyborg savant?

Servitors can be this, or people that were taken in for alteration (mostly Penal Legion Guardsmen or failed Space Marine Aspirants, though the AdMech isn't so above from going to the nearest planet and turning everyone there into a Servitor).