Horus Heresy General /hhg/

How many points would you say giving Dorn relentless is worth?

He is good enough with his 1d3 cc resolution and crusader buff.

Arguably rivalling Fulgrim.

Just make his weapon assault 3, no need for relentless

Indeed, I'd rather give him a better bolter. Even Garro's is better. It's silly how his pimpy Primarch panoply is a mere bolter and chainsword. Back then it was stupid he had unwieldy

I'd rather he just got a fucking model already.

Fuck wolf faggots, they're not even relevant to the Heresy.

Legion: Iron Hands
Loyalty: Traitor
Rite of War: Head of the Gorgon

Praetor: 190 Points
Master-Crafted Power Fist
Cataphractii Terminator Armour
Cyber Familiar
Digital Lasers

Forge Lord: 95 Points
Rad Grenades

Primus Medicae: 140 Points
Master-Crafted Power Fist
Cataphractii Terminator Armour
Cyber Familiar
_________________________________________

8 Cataphractii Terminators: 660 Points
Cyber Familiar (Sergeant)
Power Fists
Spartan (Dedicated Transport)
Blessed Autosimulcra
Ceramite
Flare Shield

3x Apothecaries: 120 Points

Rapier Quad Heavy Bolter: 40 Points
__________________________________________

3x 20 Tactical Marines: 750 Points
__________________________________________

3x Sicaran Battle Tanks: 155 Points
Blessed Autosimulcra
Ceramite

2500 Points

Basic idea is simple, stuff is hard to kill and the opponent wants it dead. My basic strategy is to start with everything except by Sicarans on the table, spartan filled with terminators is front and center. I figure -1 strength to shooting combined with FnP should leave my hordes of tacticals mostly safe, meanwhile the self healing spartan should be absorbing tons of fire. When the cataphractii disembark or the spartan is destroyed they should still be mostly safe with 2+/4++ and FnP while the sergeant (with the familiar) is near the front to tank hits against stuff like lascannons, -1 str still obviously applying. When the Sicarans arrive from reserves have them outflank to get some side armour shots.

Also if you are wondering why dreadnoughts don't get legiones astartes rules it is probably because Iron Hands Leviathans would be tougher than spartans effectively getting an all around flare shield combined with a 4++ and access to autosimulcra.

TRAITOR!

Tell me how you fluff this please.

Ferrus was a bitch ass nigga and he ain't my primarch. Or pretty much that. The idea is that their leader was already a partial renegade like Autek Mor but instead of hating the traitors for killing his primarch he came to hate his primarch and legion for being weak enough to nearly be annihilated as a legion. So they simply became traitors who fell much further than the rest of their legion when it came to replacing bodyparts. Also I made a mistake with the list praetor should be in artificer armour with an iron halo so
Praetor: 190 Points
MC Power Fist
Iron Halo
Cyber Familiar
Digital Lasers

Nice.

Eye of Horus honours and why shall i fight for puny humans/fleshbags.

Good one!

Part of the reason I decided to go traitors is because traitors from loyalist legions seem extremely rare compared to loyalists from traitor legions. Does FW even have a single traitor from one of the loyalist legions?

The Lion doesnt have rules just yet. Nah but srsly they lack traitors from loyal legions. Maybe luther?

They've definitely mentioned that traitors from a bunch of loyalist legions have been seen, but they've never gone into detail. We don't even know if those traitors are truly aligned with Horus or if they're just going berserk on their own.

Primarchs and there legions mirror each other.
If a Primarch is liable to turn on their father, so is the legion.
Plus the fact that being a loyalist is objectively superior

Atcually they DID mention some.

I will try to look it up for you.

Specifically the IH are mentioned since they were pretty tight budds with Horus and his Sons.

White Scars are also mentioned.

Okay so Thousand Sons red, second test.

Dreadnought was dark to light aluminium, the two spoons are simply a pale, slightly green gold. Tamiya Clear Red over both.

This time it actually feels warmer and richer. I think I'm sold.

Meanwhile I tried FW's Angron Red and the fucking thing was eating the paint underneath.

>If a Primarch is liable to turn on their father, so is the legion.
Except for Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children, and World Eaters and Death Guard, and Sons of Horus. It is retarded that FW keeps showing off the loyalists from the traitors and doing nothing about the traitors among the loyalists. Do we even have any named traitors of loyalist legions? Like the name of an Ultramarine who helped disable some orbital defences or the Imperial fist garrisoning a world who decided to join Horus when the Sons of Horus besieged his world? Perturabo in particular is such a cuck that it seems like half his legion remained loyalist.

Well, that's what Istvaan3 was all about, showcasing the loyalists from the traitor legions. But then Paramar sort of repeated the theme

>Perturabo in particular is such a cuck
>cuck
Why do I feel like that word isn't being used right? As the traitors within the loyalists we have Luther, they previously mentioned Scars, a rumored Great Company of Space Wolfs bearing the Serpent Eye's attacking Imperials, and mixed SoHs and Hands attacking Imperials. Besides the Fallen the Dangles probably don't have many traitors. Their traditional nature and all of the secret hierarchies within the Legion is bound to have deflected Warrior Lodge influence.

Make it up yourself.

Some great user talked about red helmeted, black torso and arms wearing smurfs from the disliked destroyer squads swapping their laurels for thorn wreaths and going all word-bearary.

Could definetly imagine to build myself a warband for those, the idea is just so kick ass.

>"We have shown the truth of the emperors >designs and you in your cowardice refuse >to face it!"

FW is just chained to BL, as allways.

FW on their own are better at fluff.

Spoon army on the march!

Aww you make me blush. But still, it'd be nice to get some definite official named traitor loyalists.
Or maybe we already have some, I don't know stuff about the sagyar mazyan.

An user told me the book was about some Scars trying to convince the Khan and therefore the Legion to join Horus by some rather extreme means.

No spoilers here.

Yeah, after my previous fuckups I was loathe to sacrifice any more models.

What's the best product for scrubbing models clean of paint in non-UK Europe?

BL (the books Scars in particular) has some White Scars ships fleeing the main fleet at the moment when the Khan declares his loyalty, presumably to go join Horus. Not many – loyalty to the Khan was high, but he was missing for a moment so the pro-Horus guys started facing off against the pro-Emperor dudes.

...

But seriously, traitor UM Suzerains chaosd up from regular dudes with a lot of bits could look amazing.

Similar, the LD buff they give applying to traitor cultists.....

Mmmmhmmm!

It fits so well!

Every single legion had marines fighting on both sides of the conflict. No exceptions. What varies is the proportion that were found on each. Iron Hands, White Scars, and Raven Guard seem likely to have the largest coherent groups who would join the traitors, but I can certainly see small, independent squads or even individual marines from Blood Angels, Ultramarines, and even Imperial Fists who have been forgotten about joining up with the traitors.

The only one I have real difficulty figuring out is traitor Salamanders. Nothing short of direct chaos corruption feels like a good enough reason for them to turn.

What kind of varnish should I use on metallics? Right now regular paint is just sliding around the stuff like it was a wash.

Them and IF, IF don't seem traitory at all.

Keep in mind that Imperial Fists recruited from everywhere. I have no doubt there are instances of IF going stir-crazy similar to Iron Warriors. Or of those who just kept marching one conquest after another and never knew when to stop and build a fortress.

Has to be flat. It may sound scary, but sometimes the best way is to scuff it with very fine sandpaper instead, like 2,000 - 6,000 grit.

But they're more likely to have been left behind in small groups around the galaxy. As Caliban shows, garrisons are good places for resentment to fester.

I think some guys from an asshole world or who just got IW syndrome might make traitors when horus comes knocking.

makes sense

Salamander traitors could stem from new recruits understanding the Promethean cult wrong, like that Prophet of flame they have.
Meanwhile, in the IF, marines that say "maybe there's something else in life other than walls?" are considered traitors. Even the Templars do what they do because offense is the best defense. The enemy can't attack your walls if they're busy getting stabbed to death.

Hmmm, how would you fluff that with Salamanders?

Chaos through Fire?

Also I am talking about Horus Loyalists not renegades.

>Chaos through fire?
Their new rite makes them inflict Fear, and gives them a new pyrokinesis power, what would you say?
>From the ashes of your world we shall build a new one!

Wellllll....Cassian Dracos isn't really that evil either...and the devils in the dark rule is a throwback to the early crusade name enemies gave them.

Doable but...yeah.

Lots of stuff are doable. Remember Zardu Layak and his Ashen Circle troops? You could fluff them as loyal early crusade Imperial Heralds, their compulsory Dark channeling being them using inestable DAoT tech, his panoply of flame being a digital flamers.
I love doing reverse legions. And destroyers.

I did have an idea of a secondary recruitment world for the Salamanders that was inhabited by undersea domed cities. Only around 2,500-3,000 legionaries supplied to the legion in entirety. The recruits would still be sent to Nocturne for their training, but their experience with submersibles made them decent at piloting various land speeders and other light vehicles

They took the concepts of strength, endurance, and unity of the Promethean Cult and applied their own symbolism, relating instead to the intense deep sea pressure and geothermals they were familiar with, rather than the heat of the forge.

Despite being delegated out across the legion, they'd sometimes identify their heritage with a stripe of dark blue on their pauldron trim, or display their specialist heraldry, the Nocturne Salamander symbiotically intertwined with the Great Kraken of their homeworld.

In my original lore, the whole lot of them were wiped out on Isstvan, but I could see some turning to Horus.

Makes sense.

>Daemon on dark channeling means they got to Rad, if you catch my drift.

Also, Cassian Dracos isn't the Prophet of flame, it's Xiaphas Jurr, the newbie psyker chaplain Nomus Rythan sent to find out what happened on Istvaan 5

But hes acompanying dracos.

So i dont think its chaotic, just a bit too flame fetishistic.

Exactly. Daemon roll means their experimental reactor generates so much energy it creates a shiny fiery refraction shield around them (Fear, 5++) and protects them reliably enough to be teleported, but after the engagement they must be treated for rad sickness, getting removed as casualties.
You can pull the craziest things you can imagine, as long as you fluff it right

nice blood angel m8

> "Duty has its own reward." The Primarch said. The Fool, The Coward, going into hiding on Terra while lets us be little servants to mortals who don't even begin to comprehend the intricacies of War. He left us out here to fight his wars, while he retired to Terra with his Father, his uncaring Father in whose name we die on another godforsaken rock. We serve squealing men more interested in their next meal then the planets we liberate for them. We sow, they reap, and we don't even get a passing nod. 50 years we have been stuck in this cluster. And how did our Father, Dorn reward us? with nothing, eternal silence, and now the socalled representatives demand we rise against Horus. The arrogant fools, thinking they can command us any longer. Horus promises Freedom, the right to lead, to lead the Imperium to a golden Age. And Dorn? Dorn offers nothing but Servitude and slavery at the hands of mortals.
Oh there was no Choice, the ungrateful died, as they deserved to die, for not fighting alongside us. And now, we serve the Warmaster, as we are destined to do.

This is how i'd do Traitor fists

Zardus Pyrkmancy could be some pimp ass archeotech warp flamer and the nlade slaves are murder servitor autoclades to guard him to minimise exposure to others while they are fiele testing it.

This sounds nice!

But how, for the love of Mork, would you do Gal Vorbak and daemons?

Sounds pretty nice, but somehow exchangable with other legions.
Right?

Servitude to humies sucks ass, apparently.

Are there any good Iron Hands HH novells?

I want to get to know those machine fetishists better.

I never heard about any IF turning traitor seeing how 99% of them were on Terra. I remember 1 RG turning traitor, Corax sent a majority of the potential ones outside the galatic plane or threw them against the walls at gate 42. I recall 1 BA turning, no UM or salamanders. I hope they go into these factions more.

Fuck, typos.

Pyromany, blade slaves,field testing.

Meduson. Without a doubt. Pretty much the best Shattered Legion stories all around and really ties together a ton of loose ends.

Except for all the ones guarding the fortresses that ring Segmentum Solar that Perturabo and Mortarion crashed through.

Does it spoil stuff or needs a lot of pre knowledge?

Those were traitors?

The only ways I can truly see an IF force going traitors is either they were manipulated by the AL or someone else to think the other side are the traitors or someone that's victim of their own hubris, like a Templar Bro that thinks he's the best shit, resents the legion/Sigismund for treating him like the scrub he is and fucks off to prove them that he's the hot shit.

...

...

...

I have some questions regarding unit viability. I'm thinking of going for a SoH army with the long march RoW. Before anything, I do not have any dedicated Anti-Air, because I don't want it, even if it will lead to my defeat.
What I had in mind for the force 2000-2250 for a start, is the following:
Vindicator
2 tactical blobs with CC, melta bombs and apothecary with artificer armour
termies with volkite chargers, Power axe, 2 claws and 1 PF and Chainfist, in a LR transport
Close combat Leviathan with Phosphex dischargers and a drop pod.
with the following:
What I had in mind was putting my Praetor in a group of Reavers in a Land raider Achilles.
with the reavers outflank, it would be nice entering from the side with the Achilles.
This puts me around 2250.

My question is whether the LR Achilles will make back its cost, and will it be effective in battle, transporting a dedicated CC unit?

Is it vital for a Leviathan dreadnought to go in a drop pod or can it be used for walking across the board?

Another question is the effectivness of tactical blobs. Is it better to put ten of them inside rhinos instead?

If I reduced the blobs and put them in rhinos would leave me with 35 points (after putting in the reavers and the LR Achilles in the calculation) which I could put into the other units. Would it be a viable list? I'm going for a fluffy list for the RoW. Think that is all for now.

Was there an element of hoity poity templars?
How did he turn, or would that spoil books?

I'm giving my resin a bath for the first time right now...how long should I be brushing and soaking these fuckers?

Kinda, although i'd put the RG and Sally's more in the save the Imperium from Unjust Oppression category

Murder servitors, nice idea. Given their similar stats, Vorbaks could be seen as Murder Servitor Autoclades.
The catch with both of them? They're servitors made out of willing Astartes, of course. Such was the Imperial herald's zeal.
> I recall 1 BA turning
I hope you're not talking about the Red Angel. He sacrificed himself, because Sanguinius was ready to sacrifice himself to chaos in order to save his children. He loved them beyond all reason, it seems.
>I never heard about any IF turning traitor seeing how 99% of them were on Terra
Canon no, of course. I guess it's up to you to make them so, the same as those Traitor Destroyer Ultras.

Maybe give them a twist:

>The Emperor is a living corpse, Horus is even deader.
>The traitors are retreating. Guilliman and Dorn lead their pursuit.
>Guilliman orders the legions to fragment themselves. I don't understand.
>They tiniest crack in a wall can bring an entire fortress crashing down, and he wants to spread the surviving marines too far and too thin?
>Meanwhile, Dorn sent us to die in an obvious trap
>Our father has lost his mind too
>This is an age of lunacy, and the Imperium we have sworn to protect is a madhouse
>We shall take matters into hand, even if Terra, blinded by the Emperor's light, cannot understand us.
>OUR BROTHER TEMPLARS ARE TOO TAME IN THEIR MEASURES
>ANYONE NOT DOING THEIR PART IS A TRAITOR!!
>TRAITOR WORLDS FILLED WITH TRAITOR MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!
>If we don't get to them, the hosts of chaos will
>If they don't heed us, then their loyalty already lies with the ruinous powers
>Their blood shall flow
>Blood
>BLOOD!!!

And then they affix razor paraphernalia upon their armour and fortresses (because IF). Khornate Fists on their Blood Crusade: The Crimson Gauntlet.

Why in the Emperor's name would you post this stuff?

uguu~ I have a new fetish

I might steal this idea for something planned for later if you don't mind

You must be in the wrong thread then.

Make the water luke warm and add soap, scrub each piece well. There isn't really a go to time frame for not ready to ready.

Makes sense for the Sallies.
Maybe do Gal Vorbak as some sort of old night terran dreadnaught thingy.

After all Gal Vorbak still have brains.

Hotpockets, you know what to do. Delete this comment too afterwards

Part of the 1% left floating in the galaxy. If I remember correctly there were less than 100 marines at the fortress Pert sacked
How did who turn?
Meros knew what he was doing. Better a marine turn rather than Sang himself.
.

Thanks for that image I needed.

Or they are left over Thubder Warriors :^)

Just true scale convert them from MKII or III with a head change.

Silly, you aren't stealing anything. I'm glad to help
I quoted wrong lol

Then they could be using unstable Thunder Warrior augment processes to create ephemeral super-astartes, to be spent on the course of a few missions.

The BA, but you answered it.

>Don't talk to me or my Solar Auxiliary ever again.

Man, that IH looks good.

Any idea if the guy made a guide?

Where does that even come from?

I've seen several guides floating there, telling you to use termie legs, expand the backpack, fill in with greenstuff and such. I downloaded the pic from a thread, srry.

I honestly don't know. I think it started with one edited picture of Spike from Cowboy Beepboop.

Fug, I need this in my life.

That colour scheme too.

I vaguely recall some soccer mom getting into a dumb argument and then telling the other party to never speak with her or her daughter ever again.

I could be remembering incorrectly. I could also be remembering correctly, but it's unrelated.

Heh, fitting then.

>be a veteran of the Siege of Terra
>many brothers died in those dark days
>your gene father is becoming unhinged
>this blue armored faggot tells Dad to split up the Legion and then has the audacity to call Dad a fucking traitor for saying no
>fuck these XIII Legion assholes, where the fuck were they while we were dying on the walls of the Imperial Palace?
>Dad's in a fucked up place and he basically orders a shitload of us to something called the Eternal Fortress, manned by the traitorous IV Legion
>we fight, we kill, and die in droves only to find it was a trap, no nobody's surprise but Dad's
>those XIII Legion assholes show up to "rescue" us, would rather die at the hands of Iron Warriors than be rescued by these pricks
>they're going to use this as leverage against Dad to split what's left of VII Legion
>fuck this Guilliman and fuck his Codex
>fuck Dad for bringing us to the hell called the Iron Cage and fuck him for giving in to this stupid Codex
>fuck Sanguinius for dying
>fuck the Emperor for almost dying
>fuck Horus for starting this
>fuck the Iron Warriors for showing us the bitter truth, I'd rather still be naive and ignorant
>we are tools to be used and then thrown away
>simply a means to an end
>just like the Thunder Warriors that came before us
>fuck this weakling Imperium
>and fuck this galaxy
>we are continuing the Great Crusade
>only we're going to do it our way
>any who don't immediately subject to the authority of VII Legion are traitors

Liberate the galaxy, brother.

Now we've got Traitor Destroyer Ultras, Renegade Berzerker Imperial Fists, some sort of Cultist Salamanders, Loyal DAoT Imperial Heralds...
What other inverted legions should we do?

Night Lords

There was a great pot I saw awhile back on how to do loyalists and traitors from any legion.

It came down to all the different types of loyalty that a marine can have and which ones they value over others. The following are just the ones I can remember:

Legion
Squad
Primarch
Homeworld
Emperor
Terra
Humanity
Commanding Officer
Religious beliefs
Machine Cult
Personal honor
Combat ability
Sanity

Depending on circumstances, a decision may go against the marine's loyalties to any one of these, and they have to decide whether breaking that loyalty is worth upholding another. Every marine is going to weight these differently, even within the same legion, same squad.

post*

Well loyal elements from the traitor legions are easier because all of them started out loyal to the imperium, so either the elements are loyal stubborn terran vets or extra-deranged misfits (double traitors). With the loyal legions you have to give a bit more of an argument.

>Servitude to humies sucks ass, apparently.
It does.
>Be better than humans in every way
>Be expected to create an empire for humanity that you have no part in

But do they care about the Imperium the most? Maybe they don't. Maybe they want the rest of the galaxy to fuck off so they can go back to Barbarus, or Caliban, or Medusa.
Maybe all they really cared about was getting that perfect shot. To them it's just themselves and their trusty plasma gun against the galaxy.
Maybe they never truly left their homeworld religious beliefs behind, and they see Horus as a way of getting out from under the Imperial Truth.
Or maybe they owe a life debt to a fellow marine. One that they hold more strongly than anything else they've ever felt in their lives. And when that marine fell in with the Lodges, he joined too.

There's plenty of reasons for any legion to join. But you have to be flexible. The legions are not carbon copies of their primarchs, nor are they carbon copies of themselves. Every marine has a history of where they came from, who and what they care about. They're legions of 100,000+ individuals. Forget the stereotypes.