What would you say if GW separated oldcrons and newcrons into two armies with their own codices?

I'd be okay with that

Carnac detected.

You realise lots of people think all Loyalist marines should have one or at most two books right?

'X is stupid too' is not a counter argument to Y being stupid.

That's unnecessary. Just add some fluff about some Dynasties that lost control of their C'Tan shards and become enslaved by them.

Maybe flesh out the shards, cast some doubt about whether they're really controlled, speculate that the Night Bringer and Deceiver Shards seem to be gaining power and sentience, build it into another end-of-the-world scenario. 40K can never have enough of those.

An overhaul of their rules wouldn't hurt. Things like the C'Tan should be scary to play against. Unfortunately this edition seems to have made Fire Warriors more intimidating than transdimensional gods.

No.

I am saying if the practice is widespread and that marines and other factions are getting mini-codexes and supplements, then it's bloody stupid and petty of you to deny other fans their desire of having their own supplement for their underrepresented faction.

The most perplexing thing is how he used to be on the opposite side of this argument.

>and you fucking know 3rd to 4th edition Lords still had personalities and would occasionally talk to people
To be fair, "occasionally" makes it sound much more common than it was. The Oldcron codex confirmed that sapient Necrons existed, and the Medusa V campaign had two bits of fluff from an Oldcron POV, but GW never actually gave any examples of Oldcrons talking (or even said whether they could). Those only came from one BL book, and Dawn of War.

>mini-codexes and supplements

Are helping to kill the game but that is another issue.

And its not stupid at all, codex bloat is not a good thing.

Lies and slander. I never argued that it was possible to have Oldcrons or C'tan controlled dynaties in the post 5th ED era.

The fact that people insist on it and most aggravating insist that the creation of the HACKS of FW, the Maynarkh dynasty, are "Oldcrons" fizzes my circuits.

Anyway, GW = BL. There is no separation.

>Are helping to kill the game but that is another issue.

They weren't a problem in the 3rd Edition.

Have you not paid attention to the sheer volume of it all?

Man, that's some pretty strong autism you got bud

>Anyway, GW = BL. There is no separation

But that's wrong

BL is a part of GW. There is no separation.

If he said the design studio, then he might have been right. In reality, however, both the studio and BL are GW.

Being right is often viewed as "autism" on this board.

Instead of name calling how about you take on that guys argument. Prove that the Maynarkh dynasty are Oldcrons or at least how they differ than the other dynasties.

I'd be okay with that

I'd rather they be two armies in one codex. Variant lists nigga. Those were the days.

Newcrons with their expendable brainwashed peasant-robots, their tough soldier-robots, and their cool warmachines inexplicably piloted by Necrons.

Oldcrons with buffed C'tan shards, old style Wraiths, enhanced warriors, and some Lovecraftian living metal abominations.

I miss Veeky Forums's fluff about the oldcrons before the retcons.

Soulless Terminators vaguely aware that they were once much greater than what they are now. Sometimes having flashes to their former lives. I remember one story somebody wrote about a Necron lord purging a hive world. He picks up the flayed corpse of a noblewoman and remembers something a long time ago. He begins to dance. When he comes to the corpse falls apart in his arms and he has been dancing among the corpses of the hive rulers for a hundred years or more.

I too once loved

I did not mean to imply that BL are third party or anything like that. "GW" was referring to material published by GW that was not BL or FW. So yes, design studio, or however you may wish to rephrase it.

I'd be happy. It's a concept that occured to me while exploring all the different subsets of each faction.

C'Tan Loyalists, the Triarchy/Praetorians and Centurions, Destroyer and Flayer Cults and Cryptarkies all make good variations from the now-default Space Tomb Kings.

I would say that necrons are not a popular enough army to need two books. People really just played them because they were cheesy as fuck, not due to a fondness for the edgy background.

that's what they've already done.
The life hating murder bots are still a thing. They're just not the only thing anymore.

>The life hating murder bots are still a thing. They're just not the only thing anymore.

You missed the point intentionally.

What people want is the Oldcrons which are C'tan worshipping Necrons. This does not exist in the new lore.

Not in the Codexes, but I see no reason why some might still worship powerful shards or what have you. Going by the exact letter is going a little against the point of 40k. The reason they added more fluff to the Necrons is so there would be more room for characterization and your-dudes.

I'd think it was entirely pointless

Misses the point again.

>but I see no reason why some might still worship powerful shards or what have you.

I see plenty of reason.

-Newcrons are arrogant and hateful towards the C'tan
-Anti-C'tan Protocols
-C'tan shards being feral dumb things
-Even C'tan shards that are sentient cannot break the protocols of Necron technology due to the fact that their minded are very limited

ALL escaped C'tan shards in the fluff destroyed the Necrons and fled to the stars. No attempts were made by the shards to take control over the Necrons probably because of the stated reasons above that is quite impossible.

Necron worshipping the C'tan is in the same ball park as Half Eldar and female Space Marines. Utterly uncanon. You are suppose to work with the frame work given in the codexes, if you are going off the course, then we are not talking 40K.

>oldcrons
>intimidating mechanized slaves of inscrutable cosmic intelligences

>newcrons
>le tragic space egyptian robits with god pokemons

There are Necrons that are totally sentient, despite that also being directly against protocols. There is a certain amount of leeway with these things, especially considering the fact that not all the oldcron fluff has been retconned. I'm sure shards of the deceiver are just as wily and treacherous as ever.

Continued....

Furthermore, you are being quite rude and selfish.

Here is the translation of what you are actually saying "We must have all the love, attention, content from the developers while you Oldcron peasants can stick in that sad corner and enjoy your little headcanon".

You are a bad person, user.

>Even C'tan shards that are sentient cannot break the protocols of Necron technology due to the fact that their minded are very limited
the codex (or at least the old one) specifically mentions that they can and that their failsafes aren't going too always work.
Ctan worshiping newcrons are absolutely doable and competely compatible with the fluff. Just read between the lines in the codex fluff and remember its a big galaxy and a lot can happen in the millions of years they slumbered.

>There are Necrons that are totally sentient, despite that also being directly against protocols.

Stopped reading there. Open codex and re-read or read it for the first time.

>the codex (or at least the old one) specifically mentions that they can and that their failsafes aren't going too always work.

It does not.

>Ctan worshiping newcrons are absolutely doable and competely compatible with the fluff.

As double as loyalist female marines.

>Just read between the lines in the codex fluff

How convenient can't point where these lines are.

Female space marines and eldar - human hybrids are completely against canon. On the other hand, Necrons worshipping C'tan is not explicitly mentioned to be impossible. So you could justify it with a lot of headcanon and mental gymnastics. It would be pretty retarded though.
But that's not even the problem, the problem is

Just have a Necron force where the Shard got to the crons before they woke up and now serve it.

It's that simple. I'm not at all happy with newcrons in the fluff, mainly because that is all the fluff is now but it doesn't mean that there aren't more necrons in the background doing things a different way like they did in their older codex such as vanishing mid fight, scouring life entire worlds and generally being mysterious cunts in space.

Just use your imagination.

We are not talking about imagination are we? We are talking about canon lore.

>Female space marines and eldar - human hybrids are completely against canon.

Female space marines are.

Half Eldar were never retconned. The birth hybrids was never said to be impossible. They were dropped by omission. Same thing happened to Necrons who follow the C'tan.

5 years of Newcrons and not even a single line stating that there exists Necrons that worship the C'tan? What does that tell you? It tells me that there is a policy in GW regarding portraying the Necrons as such.

You

see

>You : ME ME ME ME. FEED ME!

Was replying to that user in particular but in lore sense, unless Geedubz release a flavour of necrons exactly like oldcrons autis- people will just see newcrons as tomb kings in space.

...

Like I said, a selfish and rude bad person.

>The Burning One had corrected the Magnovitrium’s decaying orbit, and augmented the mighty device with a portion of its own godly power. Yet the C’tan Shard was but a single sliver of a once-great mind. It could follow its master’s orders, could even pour its own might into the Magnovitrium’s blast once it was triggered. It could not, however, subvert the device’s failsafes or override its firing protocols – such improvisation was simply beyond the god-shard’s ability to conceive. And so it hung in space, poised on the cusp of victory, yet unable to seize it.

-Shield of Baal

"I can bath a continent in comic fire but I can't into programming"

This some grade A wiring right here.

You're a funny guy.

Keep newcrons as newcrons.
Make Men of Iron the mindless killing machine army.

>We are talking about canon lore.
Which is something 40k writers have never expressed much interest in.

The funniest.

I disagree.

I have read plenty of WD interviews and had seen plenty of Podcasts. They are shining with passion for their work.

reusing old assets from a previous thread

Problem is, as soon as murderbots aren't the only thing, they're not a thing at all.
You can't have mysterious murdermachines and give them human goals. The second element weakens the first one considerably.
>but there still some dynasties that are nothing but murdermachines serving C'Tan (shards).
"Well hello, relatively friendly Cryptek, would you mind giving us a few pointers on how to defeat that other dynasty that threatens us all?" "But of course, inferior meatbag."
That's not cosmic horror anymore.
Essentially, it's the same as getting an additional bro-tier Chaos god that hangs out with people sometimes, or a reasonable tyranid queen. The threat potential of the entire group is greatly reduced.

>The reason they added more fluff to the Necrons is so there would be more room for characterization and your-dudes.
May I point out that previous Necron players were pretty fine with the fact that they played alien Skynet, and that some choose the faction specifically for that reason?
It's like wanting to give the Hivefleets various personalities to make them distinct and relatable.

>My lord too once loved
That was the best piece of Tomb King fluff I've read.

We could have one them reskinned as Men of Iron, Dark Mechanicus, or a new alien faction, though.

There's already cosmic horror. It's called Tyranids and Chaos. Both of which predate the Necrons by a wide margin and do it better. The C'tan are knock off cthulhu's with less personality than the Tau. The way they are now is a lot more interesting.

Now you're just pulling my leg user.

Not even in the slightest.

Having Anti-Chaos Gods/Evil Material Gods was awesome.

Read the 3th ED Oldcron codex and then the 4th ED Tyranid codex. You will see that the Oldcrons pull the ancient cosmic horror quite well than the Tyranids.

>Necron?
>NECRON?!
>NEEEECRROOOONNNNN!!!!

quite better*

Google Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin Dark Eldar interview.

>They are shining with passion for their work.
Which is why they never bother with things like consistency

I have no doubt that they like elements of the fluff; everyone does. However that's all 40k has been reduced to - a big wall that everyone throws shit at and occasionally you get a few good things among the turds.

Man, whatever happened to the old Carnac who would shitpost against Oldcrons and Oldcron fans, wank Newcrons, and generally make Newcron fans look worse by association, rather than the inverse as he does now.

>The way they are now is a lot more interesting.
Yeah, because contrary to cosmic horror, there wasn't any faction in 40k that played the "court intrigues" angle...

I like both, leaning more to the Oldcrons. However, I recognize the Newcrons glaring faults and I don't appreciate apologetic geared for them and lies told to handwave these faults.

I kicked Oldcron fans around in past because it was impossible to have a discussion about Newcron lore without some moron coming in to start a Oldcron vs Newcron fight where it wasn't needed.

People can have complex opinions about things. Not everyone deals with absolutes, mister Sith Lord.

This.

A major problem with the Newcrons is that they written so human. Some writers even want you to sympathize with them.

Then you get FUCKING HACKS like FW try to pass them off as cosmic horrors through the laziest writing methods/techniques I have ever seen in my life. Guess what? It doesn't work. It's jarring, it's lazy, and it's insulting.

You can't have them being human and unknowable at the same time. Pick one and stick with it.

I like to think newcrons and oldcrons existing, just depending on the perspective. I enjoy newcrons more though.

A human expedition ends up awakening a Necron tombworld? They're the same as oldcrons, mindless and skeletal killing machines. Same as the 3rd edition codex cover Necrons.

When you switch the perspective to Necrons themselves, things obviously change. That still hugely varies depending on how the Overlord in charge is.

Why did the Old Ones, that by all accounts looked like a bunch of giant bloated frogs, engineer lesser races like the eldar, humans and orks, that seems to look much more like the necrontyrs (like the metal skeletons of said necrontyrs, anyways)?

We just don't know. Maybe the frog/amphibian form is better for ultra-creative superpsychic beings, but the mammalian/simian is better for any other purpose? The Old Ones recognised that the Necron design was a more practical starting point for their own creations than themselves.

Because the writers are humans. Also they wanted fantasy tropes in space.

Because Necrons were biologically inferior and the Old Ones didn't want anything evolving to rival them in the incredibly long run. Then they died anyways because the most powerful Psyhic beings in the galaxy couldn't figure out how to shoo away a bunch of warp jellyfish.

>Being right is often viewed as "autism" on this board.
Not that guy, but no, dude, it isn't.
What is considered autism on this board is plugging your ears and insisting you're right when others are telling you that you might be incorrect on a single key detail.

The way 40k works, unless the fluff explicitly says that it cannot happen, then it can happen, no matter how unlikely.

"Imperial Guard" working with foul xenos? It can happen.
Space Marines fighting alongside a hated foe to exterminate a greater mutual threat? It can happen.
A faction of Space Marines who use technology considered heretical while they themselves are considered mostly pure? It can happen.
A splinter of Necrons who worship the eldritch horror that gave them their metal skellingtons? It. Can. Happen.

I'd say that the money they spent on that is more money NOT spent on updating Sisters.

How can you have all the C'tan sharded and 4 remaining C'tan that ate the rest at the same time?

Best of both world. Necrons would have more character without retconing and more oportunity for story and conflict and fans of both are satified

Just make your own fluff for your own Dynasty.

A Dynasty that;
>woke up with no ability of verbal communication.
>worships their Shard.
>only interested in killing all living things and feeding them to their Shard.

Stop being so fucking unimaginative and autistic.

But I don't want to be reasonable and creative. I want to be told what to do but only as long as it's the one thing I like

You

see
>are telling you that you might be incorrect on a single key detail.

They have yet proven me incorrect. Saying I am incorrect because of your FEELs does't make me incorrect.

If you think that C'tan worshipping Necrons can happen, then prove it within the fluff. You cannot because the fluff is antithetical to it for many of the reasons I mentioned in this thread.

Like i said in the thread, "Oldcrons" are as canon as Half Eldar navigators.

This is pretty good

I dony know why the oldcron kid is getting so triggered but for some reason its kinda hilarious. Now im gonna pick up a necron box and fluff up a shard worshipping murder dynasty to make me laugh.

No one cares they're boring as an army either way but I do prefer newcrons.

Like I care. Go ahead and waste your money.

At the end of the day, it's just your non-fluffy headcanon.

>Dark Necrons and Regular Necrons.

STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS!

Oldcrons are 100% compatible.
Just fluff your army as "this necron dynasty's cryostasis preservation fucked up and even the Tomb Lords are braindead automatons because I have shit taste and prefer completely personality devoid terminators over skeletors

It really is a shame that GW decided to make them vastly less interesting with the update.

>Oldcrons are 100% compatible.

No, they are not. Fucker, you think you are clever but you are as dumb as a brick. Oldcrons worship the C'tan and still retain some of their personalities and feelings.

What you are purposing is called "Severed" Necrons in the fluff. These Necrons have lost their minds during sleep. The Tomb computers programs these braindead Necrons into acting like regular dynastic Necrons as best it can. However, they would be as jerky and clumsy as False Necrons in their imitation of proper Necrons.

Yeah, they'd be screwed up versions of normal necrons. They'd be little more than murder bots, and would probably be easily manipulated by a powerful entity such as a C'tan whose containment was also damaged

Anti-C'tan Protocols and the fact that C'tan Shards are also dumb as bricks should put as stop to that.

Nah. This time it got lucky

Doubt it,

A full C'tan couldn't. A shard will never.

Nah, it got lucky and did.

I don't think so. That's like saying a guardsman got laid by an Eldar banshee and 50 years later a Half Eldar was born from their union.

Nothing specifically states it can't happen. It's a really big goddamn galaxy, and GW deliberately let people be creative.

Let people have their fun with their necrons

>Nothing specifically states it can't happen

Try telling that to Eldarfags.

>Let people have their fun with their necrons

I am not stopping you from making your non-fluffy Necron army, man.

Anyway, I am off to bed. Ciao.

>I am the GUARDIAN OF NECRON FLUFF

A) Everything is canon, not everything is true
B) GW isn't really in the business of restricting what people do with fluff. It's fairly broad strokes as it, and people have pointed out that, given how many necrons there are in the galaxy, that it could happen

New to 40k but what is the difference between "Oldcrons" and "Newcrons" exactly?

OldCrons are what the necrons used to be: emotionless hordes of killing machines who served the C'tan and wanted to slaughter life in the galaxy

Newcrons: A people with their own personalities (that get corroded over time) more personal emotions, thoughts, etc, who were tricked and got revenge, and made the C'tan their bitches.

Both are good, but Newcrons existing, and the freedom given by them shouldn't mean Oldcrons can't exist

The C'tan were the worst part of necron fluff.

Their designs clashed greatly with both oldcron and newcron shit, and were generally unimpressive. They felt like shit that should have been with Vampire Counts or something from WHFB.

Honestly if I wanted mindless killing machines, I'd play Tyranids. I never really found the oldcrons to be scary or mysterious. They just seemed like a weaksauce version of Chaos, right down to having four patron gods.

I'm also getting sick of all the Imperial armies as well, especially the five or six iterations of Space Marines.

>oldcron kid
See >Let people have their fun with their necrons
This is someone who has attempted to hold up the inclusion of "bwahahaha!" in a rule description as a bad thing. Whether he genuinely believes that or is just pretending (which is a question that hangs over this particular thread's argument too, as well as many others), either way, that should give you an idea of the sort of person you're dealing with.

>emotionless
One emotion was all most of them had left.
>and wanted to slaughter life in the galaxy
"Slaughter" in the same way that livestock are slaughtered, it should be stressed. A practically universal misconception is that the 3rd edition C'tan and Necrons meant to exterminate all life, when the truth was anything but.

Second post best post.

This.
By the rules and the lore, both exist in some capacity, and the new dex allows you to do either and say that it is perfectly alright.
My issue with Oldcron players is what they want means that EVERYONE has to do it their way, rather than have a choice.