How rare would it be for an entire star of mechwarriors to be taken as bondsmen as a group? Would the capturing clan spread them out or keep them together, assuming they reinstated them as warriors?
Jayden King
Incredibly uncommon, unless it's a situation like the Harvest Trials of the 3060s, where the Invaders were trialling for whole units to be added to their toumans, and even then, the trialled for units weren't really made bondsmen. The Star would have to be exceptional for it to happen otherwise. >Would the capturing clan spread them out or keep them together, assuming they reinstated them as warriors? Likely split up, if it was separate Bondsmasters. But it's a situation I honestly can't recall ever happening, so who knows.
Parker Cooper
OK, thanks. I've got a couple more clan-related questions if you don't mind: >1 The clans brought about 100 mackies with them when they left. Did any of them ever turn up? Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit? >2 What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit? >3 Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs? Thanks a bunch. I've been playing for a while but I'm just now getting into the clan side of the game
Brandon Thomas
We need a Mackie IIC
Brandon Martinez
>Did any of them ever turn up? Yes, though it was oddly a Primitive variant. Brandon Howell forces Mechwarrior Horse of the Jade Falcons to run a gauntlet of Jaguar mechs on Huntress in a Mackie. Other than that, I can't think of any other appearances.
>Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit? Very much so. If the Mackies that survived were split evenly (which there's no evidence of, but for the sake of argument, let's run with it) between the 20 Clans, that would be about 5 Mackies per Clan. So they would be very, very rare. If the Mackies were a mix of Primitive and regular versions, they'd probably be mothballed anyway.
>What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit? Royal variants, with a few Clan designs here and there. The Spirits are very resource strapped, so it'd be more likely to see this, depending on the Era. FM: Crusader Clans paints a different picture, so I screencapped their RATs. I'd probably go with that for the early 60s, and edge to more IS/Royal tech as the decade goes on.
>Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs? Maybe as a field refit there were some (C) refits, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Mostly mechs. The Royal vehicles are mostly decent on their own.
I've got one, though the Mackie doesn't really gain much by going to Clan tech.
Caleb Myers
So here's the Mackie IIC. As I said, it doesn't really gain much, and has a hefty BV. But it's a bitch to actually kill, so there's that.
Hudson Moore
There's a Clan retrofit of the Maxim but I'm not certain if that's pre- or post-Revival.
Adrian Young
Would make a nice addition to my reserve cluster's command star.
Matthew Anderson
>The clans brought about 100 mackies with them when they left. Did any of them ever turn up? Would it be implausible to find one in a third-rate garrison unit? >turn up Yeah, there are a few in art and mentioned in the Klondike Era Report. >Find one Not impossible, but incredibly unlikely. That's the kind of thing Goliath Scorpions hunt. >What would be some common mechs in a second-line Blood Spirit unit? Highlander IICs would be popular with Star Captains and Colonels (it's the personal 'Mech of their founding Khan), as well as tough "zombie" designs, both IICs and Star League. They like ERLLs and LRMs-15 in general, but they aren't obsessed with them. Keep in mind that the Spirits are poor as shit and Trial for most of their gear from the Mandrills and Ravens, buy a bit from the Sharks, or salvage it from the Vipers and Adders. A lot of what's left is highly-varied. One star might have a Golden Century design like the Corvus or Thresher rubbing shoulders with a vintage Black Knight, a Clint IIC, and a Great Wyrm. The Spirits also believe that a warrior should have the machine best suited to his style, so they trial frequently amongst themselves: it's merely uncommon to see an Omni among their second-liners, and vice versa (rather than rare or even remarkable). That 'whatever works' attitude is one of their signatures. Also, they organize along extremely traditionalist lines, so mixed Stars basically don't exist.
>Were there ever (c) refits of captured IS tanks, or just mechs? None known, but it's possible that a clan like Hell's Horses might try. Those refits really all showed up before the modern understanding of the Clans was in place (well, helped cement it, anyway), and that was in the middle of one of the "vehicles don't exist" phases of BT's line development.
Welcome to best Clan, Sibkin.
Hudson Edwards
You're more likely to get a Blood Kite, in all honesty. As a bonus, have the Wars of Reaving RAT and modifiers.
Andrew Myers
Sorry, I'm a different user. I'm not playing Blood Spirits.
John Cox
Something that has always bothered me, the Phalanx "cockpit" is so bizarre. Is it supposed to be like the Zeus's cowl but upped to horse blinders?
Jacob Moore
Thanks guys. So how would this be as a Blood Spirit Assault Star? >Highlander IIC >Nightstar >Warhammer IIC >Royal Stalker >Emperor Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right?
Blake King
>Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right? Not always. Generally a Star is rated by its top couple of members, and you'll often see a few Heavies or even a Medium in an Assault star unless it's dedicated artillery. Again, the Spirits are on the poorer end of the spectrum, so I'd add in a Heavy or two (the "no mixed Stars" thing earlier was about mixing in a Vehicle or Elemental Point into a line Star, not about mixing weight classes).
Aaron Edwards
>Stars are traditionally all the same weight class, right?
Not really. As players we tend to try and get similar speed for a Star so the unit doesn't get strung out on the table top but IC the Clans don't even give a shit about that. There are literally examples of a Stars ranging from 8/12/8 to 3/5 movement in the sourcebooks.
As noted above the Spirits were a poorer Clan and while it's not impossible for an all-Assault force to appear in their top units like the Blood Guard Keshik it's more likely they'd have some Heavies and even Mediums mixed in.
Also the Blood Kite is pretty much the Stalker IIC, and something the Spirits like to use as much as possible.
Is battletech mostly played with period-piece units or is there room for Your Dudes?
Ryder Bell
I suspect that people mostly pick a theme and run with it with whatever they think fits. I tend to go with rough faction based forces but no specific unit represented for the most part.
Robert Ross
It's more pick an era, then pick your dudes or set pieces. Some battles are more mapped than others, but there is plenty of room for your dudes. Most usually go for merc companies, but that's not the only option.
Kevin Powell
Is that a painting of Mount Rainier in the back?
Hudson Perry
>Is that a painting of Mount Rainier in the back? Yeah. I used it in my lightbox for a while, in memory of the Sainted Ross.
>Is battletech mostly played with period-piece units or is there room for Your Dudes? Mostly, it's played with ad-hoc formations loosely based on a faction. Your Duders are usually the PCs in a running campaign. Period-piece units are basically restricted to historical refights or people who have a fondness for that particular force, though there is the occasional group that uses a historical unit as the framing device for a narrative campaign instead of a straight refight (which I actually enjoy, but I'm vastly in the miniority. Guess why I'm the GM most of the time..).
Mason Wilson
Yup. Mountain Fresh.
Wyatt Watson
Bum
Caleb Miller
I have a recon/skirmish lance with a Raven (lance leader), Firestarter, Javelin and Commando. What faction would I most correspond to?
Ian Phillips
The Raven is very CapCon, while the other 3 are FedCom. You could make a good argument for a Capellan March lance like that.
Connor Jackson
FedCom era FedSuns?
Bentley Kelly
There was a blurb somewhere that stated the FedCom captured so many Ravens before the Clan Invasion that people thought the Raven was a FedCom mech.
Dominic Hughes
Designs done, now to clean it up and start on the orthographic turnaround.
John Carter
>first the Fedrats steal Chesterton >then our Ravens REEEEE fedrats get off New Avalon, it's an ancestral Capellan world!
Oliver Foster
Sweet.
Grayson Harris
In terms of weight and common mechs, what would the "average" star look like among the four initial invading clans?
Christopher Bailey
That Crusader makes me moist.
I look forward to seeing it completed.
Isaiah Wood
See, I've never liked the crusader before this. But that? THAT I would pilot the shit out of.
Nathan Bailey
oh shit that is really nice. Maybe get into contact with the btg/RO/ guys and do some commission work? Fits right in with the current aesthetics BT is going for.
I know right? Decided to throw the -3L into SSW and update it, its a useful mini-stalker that doesnt die because of CASEII.
Aiden Walker
Is there any reason why the Regulans are as violent and paranoid as they are?
Furthermore, why would the new Free World's League want to re-absorb Regulus and Andurien when both of them are trouble makers?
Ian Lopez
Writers wanted a new Taurian Concordat but couldn't think of a clever way to do it. Let's not forget the crop we have handling this stuff now, after all.
Cameron Fisher
>Is there any reason why the Regulans are as violent and paranoid as they are?
WoB made a point of humiliating, war criming, and generally fucking them over.
>Furthermore, why would the new Free World's League want to re-absorb Regulus and Andurien when both of them are trouble makers?
Strong military, and better to have them nominally on your side than against you.
Dominic Butler
So, I recently learned that they actually have anti-missile systems again, as of 3045. Does anyone use 'em?
Samuel Cruz
It's not like Regulus hasn't had its problems with the League government in the past but gotten over it. Their separation is due to opposition to Thomas Halas and the ambitions of some of the Cameron-Jones clan, not the idea of the League idea.
Andurien is something of a victim of porchbux.
Aiden Nguyen
>Strong military, and better to have them nominally on your side than against you. Regulan Hussars stronk.
Anthony Davis
Yes.
They're a shit ton more effective in space games than on the ground though. You can make a decent argument that an ECM suite or, if armour isn't maxed then more of that, actually provides superior protection in normal BT.
Carter Reed
>Writers wanted a new Taurian Concordat but couldn't think of a clever way to do it.
I thought the Marian Hegemony was the Concordat's replacement in terms of military prowess?
Samuel Ross
Oh maybe. I meant being nuke-happy and paranoid.
Easton Fisher
What was the Lyran plan for their Dark Age invasion of the Free World's League?
Were they going to stop at the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth?
Or were the Oriente, Regulus and (possibly) Andurien next?
Carter Moore
Planning isn't the LCAF's strength. I think they were just winging it to see how many worlds they could get while trying to bleed the Wolves white.
Elijah Peterson
>They're a shit ton more effective in space games than on the ground though.
Are missiles more prevalent in space combat?
Also, do PPC beams travel at relativistic speeds? I'd assume so, but the fact that they have recoil would indicate a fairly high momentum change, which suggests more stuff moving at a lower speed.
Austin Hughes
>paranoid
I think it's been clear for a long time that this is not unreasonable in this setting.
Anthony Green
Different user but I could swear NEA or one of our other aerotech experts pretty much labeled missiles in space as being shit weapons.
NEA if you're here please acknowledge receipt of message and clarify on warship weapons.
Jaxon Murphy
AMS batteries in space can shoot down a lot more missiles than on the ground, including destroying entire LRM-20 barrages.
WarShip article guy here.
A modicum of AMS in space makes it really difficult to use capital missiles effectively. Nukes are potential one-hit killers and it's trivially easy to deal with them if you have AMS.
If you have no AMS, sucks to be you. Enjoy your 1,000 points of capital damage.
Jack Brooks
>missiles in space as being shit weapons.
They would be, unless everything else was worse. But this is space; there are no good options.
The only weapons that are unarguably bullshit are space fighters. As a rule of thumb, anything that could be done with a space fighter could be done better and cheaper by missiles.
The core problem is that a missile needs reaction mass to move around, just like your spacecraft. This means it runs into the same problem as every other rocket we've ever launched; it needs to burn propellant to move propellant.
Granted, the fact that it doesn't need to make a return trip cuts it's delta-v required at least in half. The fact that it only needs to do one thing cuts down the mass you need, which also helps.
The problem, then, is that most of the schemes for better specific impulse are very capital-intensive. A Nuclear Thermal Rocket is going to do better than just about any chemical rocket. If nothing else because it has 2 amu H2 exhaust rather than 18 amu H2O exhaust.
But that NTR is going to require you to have a nuclear reactor - these are generally not something that can be considered expendable. For... a lot of reasons, actually.
The better propulsion systems make this problem even worse. Orion is the best propulsion setup we know for sure we could actually build, and is never going to be useful for anything short of an interplanetary missile.
Jose Stewart
I'm gonna assume you're trying to discuss this from a scientific viewpoint because the only thing you've said with any relation to AeroTech rules is about fighters, calling them unarguably bullshit.
Which they are, but not the way you're thinking. Fighters are, ton for ton, the most dangerous combatants in space.
There are literally multi-thousand ton WarShips than can be killed in a matter of turns by less than 600 tons worth of fighters.
Jaxon Wright
We're talking BT man.
Gabriel Smith
Hope everyone is having a good Memorial Day weekend.
Since the thread is reasonably slow, figure I'll ask for recommendations on a variant I'm working on. It's a rework of the Cauldron-Born Prime. I dropped the LB-5X and its ammo, using that space to max the armor and add two ER medium lasers. Then I swapped out the LRM 10 for an LRM 20 with two tons of ammo.
I'm balanced on heat sinks and still have two tons of space left. What should I throw on?
Jeremiah Torres
>There are literally multi-thousand ton WarShips than can be killed in a matter of turns by less than 600 tons worth of fighters.
What. How.
Jaxson Brooks
Well throwing nukes around that have been launched from fighters is apparently a thing.
Brayden Stewart
Oh, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, are these nukes contact-detonation or space-burst?
Jose Barnes
hey, so i played BT for the first time in years. i got some friends that want to run a campaign style story. I forgot how good this game is. god damn. If we were, say, to start off building our forces, 1 or 2 mechs at most to start with, whats a good amount of starting funds? Cheers fellow mechfriends
Caleb Price
If I could chime in; I understand what a KF Drive does pretty well, but I'm still vague on sublight drive propulsion in BattleTech.
I think they call them Transit Drives?
Cooper Harris
A single ton of Cessna and warhead can take out a hundred thousand tons of aircraft carrier in a single bang.
Jack Ward
The Vincent has 16 rear armour and 40 SI. It can take 96 damage damage assuming crits don't kill it.
A squadron of Eisensturms can do 29 damage per turn.
Takes a 570-ton Squadron a bit over 3 turns to kill a 420 kT WarShip.
Whilst this is a bit of an extreme example you really can't arm WarShips enough to make them a real threat to massed ASFs.
Don't even need that, user.
Welp, it's no longer an Omni or even a Cauldron-Born.
But I guess you could take the SRM-2 and replace it with a larger S-SRM. Maybe a 4 or 6 depending.
Xavier Hernandez
There's not a lot of detail on them. They're just REALLY efficient fusion drives. Accelerating at 1g for 24 hours uses up less than 40 tons of hydrogen fuel.
Brandon Williams
the Introductory Set is the best deal you can find. 26 minis for 50$
Alexander Ramirez
>you really can't arm WarShips enough to make them a real threat to massed ASFs.
Then why do they exist?
Daniel Campbell
>Welp, it's no longer an Omni or even a Cauldron-Born. Do I violate an unwritten rule of Omnis/Cauldron-Born by having more than nine tons of armor?
Adam Jenkins
>Accelerating at 1g
Is this... a 5,000 ton DropShip?
Michael Young
Sorry, i meant in universe terms. like, if we're building our forces in mektek or whatever. We've got an intro set, Im actually in the process of painting the models now.
Luke Rivera
yes. you can't change the Omni's engine or total armor, among other things
Dominic Hughes
>. Out of curiosity, are these nukes contact-detonation or space-burst? Contact. Space-burst would be utterly stupid and pointless
Jose Barnes
well you can, it just counts as a total redesign and yeah, kinda makes it not really an omni. but custom is custom.
took your advice on the SRM and upgraded to a Streak SRM-4, then added a flamer for warcrimes.
Matthew Baker
Because nobody really thought about the space combat rules when they were writing them; in fluff, WarShips laugh in the face of massed fighters, but on the table, it's an utter massacre, and not for the fighters
Jonathan Barnes
One of the in-universe things about omnimechs is that their armor, engines, and some internal things, like endo-steel and ferro-fibrous crits are fixed. In occasion, even weapons and equipment like active probes are fixed. IIRC, the Avatar has two fixed medium lasers and the firestarter omni has two fixed flamers.
Luke Kelly
>like endo-steel
A pod-mounted skeleton. I see nothing wrong with this, so why isn't it a thing?
Easton Nelson
Why not make the entire mech a pod?
Evan Turner
Is combat between the Regulans and Free World's forces featured heavily in "To Ride The Chimera"?
I'm curious to know how the Regulans conduct warfare given a lot of the units attributed to them in the 3145 FW Readout are melee oriented or built around having a "savage edge" in combat so to speak.
Ethan Peterson
Well, maybe like one pod for each location. So you'd take a Core Pod, bolt on two Side Torso Pods, stick on a Hat Pot, then arm and leg it (with more pods).
Some of these Pods, of course, would be able to mount other pods.
Grayson Hill
the structure is the only thing that no one should even discuss about being fixed in an Omni.
Logan Bennett
What about the armor?
Christian Murphy
You don't have to max the Cauldron Born's armor. What it has is enough to get the job done if you use it right.
Ayden Cox
It's not like anyone plays Aerotech though.
You're more likely to find Star Fleet Battles players than AT players.
Angel Roberts
where my romulan bros at?
Parker Ramirez
Gorn here, Romulans can go git rekt on my double bubble trouble huddle.
Cameron Davis
No, this is any Warship massing 250 kT or more. A Burn-Day represents running the engines at 1g for 24 hours and anything in the 250 kT-2.5 mT range uses 39.52 tons of fuel over that period.
My Cauldron-Born Prime refit has this:
1 ER PPC, 1 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Lasers, 1 LRM-20 with Artemis IV and 3 tons ammo, 1 Streak SRM-6 with 1 ton of ammo, and 5 DHS for a total of 18 (36).
You can get into some heat trouble at close range, but this is hardly unusual on Cauldron-Born configs any way. Long range is slightly increased, long-range damage is increased by up to 50% depending on your Cluster rolls, and endurance is increased though I seriously doubt the Jaguars would give a single fuck about that.
In close you drop the ER LL for a run at +1 heat and deliver more damage than the normal Prime could too.
I really love the Cauldron-Born, but the armour is the only problem I have with it. They skimped on the legs which only have 19 each.
It works fairly well against IS heavies due to its speed and firepower or Clan mediums thanks to the firepower but either can pull out a win if they have PPCs, GRs, or A/C-20s of their own due to the leg armour.
Adrian Thomas
I ran a variant of the CB with 2 Gauss Rifles and 3 ER Medium Lasers. Basically a Devastator Jr. As should have been expected with a dualgauss boat it was surprisingly effective.
Blake Richardson
>leg armor If you just Jag harder then the leg armor isn't a concern. Remember your sibko training.
I did a take on that too. >one gauss rifle with two tons of ammo >one ER ppc >three ER med lasers >two machine guns >one flamer for OZ duty
Then added an ECM and three DHS. It was my character's custom ride during our old Bulldog campaign games.
question: BA can have infantry specializations, such as combat engineer or mountaineer?
Isaac Brown
I know it's unlikely to happen, but could a joint Lyran-Free Worlds offensive dislodge the Wolf Empire from their doorstep?
Luis Bennett
No, conventional infantry only.
To put it another way, being BA infantry is their specialization. And being BA can potentially render some specializations unnecessary anyway, for instance mountain troops are immune to thin atmosphere effects and can climb three levels per hex, BA are sealed and so ignore atmosphere entirely, and any BA with jump 3 can equal that climbing ability.
Juan Green
oh, I see. thanks!
Carter Russell
...
Julian Thompson
Which pre -CI tank is best at killing mechs?
Grayson Myers
Best Toad BA suit comin' through, Elementals swerve.
Nicholas Powell
The artillery Rommel: it can shell mechs without ever being seen.
Benjamin Cook
NVM, I thought that tank was pre-Invasion. It isn't, so I'm revising my recommendation to the LRM Carrier: because enough missiles mean fuck you, mechs.
Liam Cox
Shrek probably. If you mean something your average yahoo could get his hands on then maybe the manticore or the pegasus or the salad shooter.
Aaron Jackson
In the right circumstances, missile carriers can murder a mech quick, but for more general field use, demolishers, schreks and brutuses are probably better at it
Carson Cruz
The Wolves have been bled white and are in no position to do anything. If the FWL got its shit together and didn't have to worry about anything else they could solo the Wolves.
