/kowg/

>Tournament Results
>12 rankings
Is that the full list of armies who played?

>No Elves played
I don't believe it

Yeah, we only had 12. It's not a major regional event, just a get-together between FLGS regulars and some friends-of-friends.

About the KoM, is a horde of chariots worth it over a reg of knights ? Same everything except that the chariots are def 4 instead of 5, and they have bows, for 10 points less.

Charioteers are in a weird spot role-wise. They're fast with ranged weapons, but they're not terribly accurate with their bows (Ra 5+), and Thundering Charge (2) means that you want to get in melee at some point. Unlike knights though, their Me is worse (4+ compared to a knights 3+) and as you noted, worse Def. Additionally, they have a much larger footprint compared to knights, which can get awkward thanks to terrain. A horde of charioteers is 150x200; a regiment of knights is 125x100. A huge difference. This CAN be played to your advantage, as having a larger footprint means you can manipulate how your opponent moves his troops, but be mindful of your large flank.

At first glance it seems like you want them to scoot around, firing their bows at deceptively long distances, but moving means they're hitting on a 6+ which is horribly inaccurate. Their worse stats mean they can't stand up to a counter-charge quite as well as knights, and charging from the front is a poor idea. Thus, they're kind of stuck performing the duties of knights, which is flank/rear charges.

I struggle to see what use charioteers fill that isn't done better by other units. If you need a good charger, take knights; if you need shooting, take any of the dedicated ranged units in the army. If you want a mobile weapon platform, take a beast of war with a ballista, or a couple troops of mounted scouts for cheap screening units. If charioteers had Thundering Charge (3) or had a better Ra I could see a use for them, but as it is they're less durable knights and more expensive mounted scouts. while being

*while being worse at both.

yup

>Nearly all the armies are evil.
More or less expected for aussies.

Mantic's evil armies are generally look much better looking than their neutral and good armies that are all over the place. The dwarves have weird proportions, all their plastic guys are compact lumps that often has the wrists fused with the toros and they got toothbrushes for beards. The elves have awkward poses, their spears looks like they are as thick as their anorectic limbs and their heads looks larger than they should by a trick of the eye. The Basileans are just all kinds of bad besides their angels which are one of the better fantasy minis of Mantic. The Forces of Nature is a mixed bag with two decent plastic kits. The Ogre however is by far the most consistent army of the neutral bunch and they look fine.

The evil armies has the undead and greenskins which looks like what you might expect from their themes without any major issues in consistency. The Twilight Kin is in redesign limbo. The Forces of the Abyss are generally good without having any mini that looks like ass. The Abyssal Dwarves on the other hand is really the only evil faction that I think looks bad and that's mostly because they are based on the plastic dwarves, so they end up with similar fundamental problems.

So the only way to not look goofy is to go evil or ogre.

My only real complaint about the Abyssal Dwarfs is the ugly-ass hats they have. I'm one of the few that apparently has no problem with the basic dwarfs Mantic has to offer--they aren't abjectly awful, just kind of generic and serviceable. But the AD hats? Terrible.

At least the obsidian golems look good.

The hats are a bit overdesigned, so the regiments just ends up looking like a mess.

Exactly. Say what you will about the old Chaos Dwarfs, their hat designs gave a clear outline and common design element between models, so they all look like a cohesive whole instead of crumbled tinfoil.

I'm not realt against the gargoyle helmets, but they kinda need be slimmed down or something to not look like a hedge of spikes and teeth. I would just like to see Mantic resculpt the entire dwarven line to look more like what they are doing in Warpath.

>No Elves
Glad to see the knife ears finally in their proper place after 8th

I am interested in the expansion that lets you create your own character. That sounds like it would give an edge over let's say Descent.

If I didn't have 4 whole armies to paint I'd buy some AD, sculpt them chapkas and make tsarist Abyssal Dwarves

Geographically it fits.

hey, new undead player here, but I dont see a suggested model list for the undead, unlike all the other factions. If there is one, could some one please link it?

Finally going to get into this game after finding a group in Maryland and I'm working on getting back into playing my Skaven, well Ratkin now. What's some good ways to transition my army to play in KoW? I think the basing is really interesting and I've got something around 3000 pts worth of Skaven back before GW shat the bed. Any analogue suggestions? Seems pretty self explanatory.

You have analogues for everything, but now you have options for mounts which will require some conversion of you want to use those options. Analogues are straight forward IE shock troops are storm vermin, warriors are clan rats, demonspawn are vermin lords and so on.

For basing you don't need to rebase your army of course, but if you do you can try multi basing by creating some dioramas. I would recommend getting a few hirst arts casts to make it look like your dudes are in a sewer.

Awesome. Seems easy enough. Are the tactics largely the same? I'm going to miss Warplock-Engineers but everything else seems pretty good and I'm hoping to use my old warmachine list.

That is right. They and goblins are the games swarm armies, but Ratkin have more in the way of monsters and warmachines.

Most things are pretty 1:1 with Skaven, just with their names switched around.

The Stormvermin analogue, Shock Troops, are shockingly good now. Take them. Have a caster pal around behind them casting Bane Chant and watch them make mulch of enemy units.

The Vermin Lord equivalent, the Demon Spawn, is possibly the most powerful hero monster in the game. He's hideously expensive, but he absolutely pulls his weight and then some.

All your weapon teams are now on 50mm bases. You can work around this by making a tray to slide the team onto, or using magnets. They're not terribly good, since they like to run and only have a 12" range, but 10 shots (with piercing if you want to upgrade it) can put on some hurt.

The Death Engine is your screaming bell/plague furnace replacement. Similarly, the mutant rat fiend is your hellpit analogue. Both are good units, and it all depends on your taste and points allotment.

The Shredder is basically the warp lightning cannon. It's probably the best of the warmachines in the list, though you can make an argument that the Artillery unit can be useful thanks to indirect fire.

Any rules for Storm Fiends and such? I read somewhere there are but I am having the worst time trying to find it. Also an Abyssal Canon is apparently another analogue for the warp lightning cannon but can't find anything for that either

Note, army comp is really, really different from Fantasy. Warmachines, monsters and heroes aren't limited by points percentage, but instead by how many troop and horde sized units you take. I don't know if this will have any bearing on if you can run a warmachine list. I can run my monster mash Nightstalker army just fine and that's similar in army comp to what I imagine your warmachine list would be like, but I'm unfamiliar with ratkin, so just be wary of that fact.

>monster mash Nightstalker
I [another person] was just looking at Nightstalker and its monsters. They look pretty interesting.
Any quick tips to share?

Technically its regiment and horde sized armies you take, but you are right about the overall composition. If you are focused on big guys then you can still take lots of large infantry and large cavalry to make up the bulk of your forces, and then dedicate the rest to monsters. With Nightstalkers you won't need heros of course.

What's the lowest point level you can go to before the balance starts to fray, or what would be good for a "this is our first game, let's do something reasonably balanced but not too huge"

1000, I think.

The closest thing you can get to Storm Fiends is taking a unit of Brutes and giving them the Diadem of Dragon-kind artifact, which will give them Breath Attack (10).

The closest thing to an Abyssal Cannon (whatever that may be) is the Angkor Heavy Mortar from the Abyssal Dwarf list. That's basically the Hellcannon equivalent.

1000 points is already a good game, it will be the scale of a 1500-2000 points battle in warhams

Just got done with NashCon this weekend - really fun event.

Chariots have a huge footprint, meaning they have less options than knights.

Chariots can sit back and shoot and then charge whatever gets close. Knights have to hope there are no chaff or their enemies are slower or rely on chaff.

Different roles entirely. But id go for knights personally, unless you want more ranged attacks with the additional threat range.

A group of us were really hoping to make that event but unfortunately it just wasn't viable. I saw that Rob had only 1 spot left, what was the final headcount?

Aside from the Elves with their better Ra I don't see a reason to field chariots. That said I am eyeballing an EoD army and strongly considering some chariot shenanigans.

>I'm going to miss Warplock-Engineers

Re-read the list. Warlock have access to the very powerful lightning bolt (3). Taking them in numbers is not a bad strategy.

What is the "UB" being used in this thread
vb.manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/general-discussion-aa/281418-kings-of-war-map-pack
and what do you do with these .ubm files in the dropbox links?

About how many dice should I buy for this game? A lot of the attack numbers look pretty high. Would about thirty do the trick? I am getting Shadowrun flashbacks already.

Thirty should be fine.
Some rolls get to over 100 with a rear charge, but you can just role again after counting them.

Anons, what would be a good army to use as a base for cultists of the eternal end?

Let's see, that be something something tough to represent their robotic nature, with archers, large cav and priests.

Dwarfs could work (Abyssal or Normal.) So could Forces of Nature or Elves. Basilea or Varagur or the Forces of the Abyss might work on a stretch.

Take something where you can take a lot of allies.

Universal Battle, online versions of tabletop games.

How's this for 1000 pts?

Spear Warriors
Horde(40) 185

Shock Troops
Regiment(20) 135
Regiment(20) 135

Brutes
Regiment(3) 115
- Diadem of Dragon-kind 30

Death Engine 170
- Bloody Carnage 25

Enforcer Hero (Inf) 45
- Inspiring Talisman 20

Warlock Hero 90

Swarm-crier Hero 45
- War-bow of Kaba 5

Any critique is appreciated

I picked up 100 16mm dice off Amazon for $6, works fantastic.

Is only one source of inspiring (The Swarm-Crier) going to be enough?

30 dice will do.

I also like having particular amounts of different colours.
10 red, 10 blue and 5 grey. That way I barely need to count: when my Sons of Korgaan charge I just grab all the reds and blues. Makes the game that little bit easier.

I was thinking the same thing, hence why I put the Inspiring Trinket on the Enforcer to keep some overlap

Ah yes, I overlooked that.

Good idea. I will see if I can do that for all of my major units, thanks user.

What's that?

Endless Legend faction

Essentially a bunch of cultists who focus mainly on converting miscellaneous monsters rather than having a uniform army. I would say that anything with a generic enough large infantry and large cavalry option could do the trick, so you can sub in any models you want.

Why isn't the PDF for Destiny of Kings in the Mediafire? Are there any scans or uploads of it at all?

Should I have more regiments than hordes or like what
I'm not sure on the balance between them

There's "have whatever lets you support the WMs/heroes/monsters that you want" which sound good, but I'm unsure on the horde vs regiment balance here, and the ramifications of going heavy in one way, beyond having less things on the field means less opportunities to flank.

I didn't find any desu, people says it's prescindible tough.

Pretty sure that's highly situational, depending on who you play, who you play against, local meta.

Hordes can be blocked easier than regiments.

Hirdes are less manuverable, and also have the problem of forcing you to put lots of eggs in one basket.

If you tie up a horde with a tarpit unit or a disposable unit, which isn't that hard to do considering how much less manuverable they are, then you take a fairly sizable chunk out of your enemy's army for at least one turn.

Where can I get those tournament rules that make it so disordered fliers can't fly, or whatever?

I would like to see this too, the 2015 tournament pack doesn't seem to have it

>So the only way to not look goofy is to go evil or ogre.

New player here, How are Ogres and Undead?

I mean, I'm pretty sure that they're polar opposites; one being few tough units while the other is a horde of squishier units, but I love the sculpts from both of them.

How are the Ogre Hunters as a unit? I absolutely love the sculpts, they scream Ogre Caveman

They are actually not a bad choice, but aren't bulwalkers in the same way that other ogre units are meant to be. You can of course use GW ogres and undead if you don't like the models for some units (Or simply can't get Mantic models for some of the units like the Mammoth).

Worth noting that this is not an official rule change, just some suggestions for this specific tournament with input from the rules committee. Some tournaments might use it, some might not, some might make different changes.

The actual interesting part is pages 11 & 12, by the way. Push scenario seems neat.

Interested in playing. Is there any big differences between not-Tomb Kings and not-Vampire Counts? And does anyone know anywhere that sells decent skeleton miniatures? Mantic's skele archers have too much weird lumpy cloth on them.

Undead have lifeleech, which recovers damage.
Empire of Dust have one-use upgrades that give them a big surge forward, making them more mobile.
Both have good heroes and cheap, expendable infantry, with Undead having the edge in terms of elite/heavy infantry. (Wights and Wraiths are imo the best undead units, both absent from empire.)
If you want to do a mix, nothing stopping you from allying.

For archers Wargames Factory has solid barebones(In a literal sense, no lumpy cloth or anything beyond a quiver being worn) plastic skeletons that can be assembled as archers.

The VC equivalent isn't that close to VC in the sense that they are meant to be a more overall forces of undead list, with options for your army to be lead by liches and such rather than just vampires. You no longer have large cavalry like the Black Coach or the Corpse Cart, no bat swarms or giant bats, and banshees and cairn wraiths are part of Nightstalkers now(Though no one is stopping you from just putting them in a unit of wraiths or using them as revenants). You now have options like vampire foot soldiers, Wights which are the big Ushabti like dudes(Western themed of course) that have some Fate Stay Night bullshit being fueled by the legends of past heroes, and of course the skeletal archers that you mentioned along with liches and pharoahs(Very durable skeletal beatstick heroes).

Oh yeah, you now have catapults which are great for providing support and forcing nerve tests

Forcing nerve tests isn't really what catapults are good for. One attack on a 5+ isn't exactly reliable.

Yeah, the undead catapult is more a distraction than anything else. It has the potential to do some serious damage, and a good shot can wipe out a unit, but it's far from a reliable damage source.

They are however, not that expensive, and you're practically swimming in warmachine slots since Undead don't have monsters. Plus, you can surge and shoot, which potentially can come in handy (maybe).

>Nightstalkers

Those are the guys with the scarecrows, right? What's their gimmick?

Nightmares, horror and ethereal madness made manifest.

No sources of Inspiring. Instead they steal it from thebopponent.

Lovecraftian/dreamlike nightmare creatures. Talons, tentacles, horrors from the void, that sort of thing. Some people are using tyranids, ghosts, lots of reaper aberrations.

Thanks for posting this user.

Glad to see the chess clocks in there. I've been to two tournies without them where it's 1hr 40 min for each game without clocks and only about half the tables get to finish 6th turn.

Nightstalkers are oogie boogie bump in the night bed time horror monsters mixed in with lovecraftian elder things from beyond the veil.

They have no official models, but reaper and wyrd make a lot of things that can fit the bill.

>Momminiaturas is doing Dark Elves now.
Wew this lad.

It's a quibble, but I wish that Mantic updated their mantic points page. How about some orcs, goblins or abyssals?

I've got ~35 points to burn, but nothing really grabs me.

I think you used to be able to get much nicer things for lots of points.

Just picked up a mega and starter army dwarf set fairly new to the game looking for a 1000 point list so me and a friend can just get going in the game

Well, don't be afraid to proxy some expensive units that you fancy for playtesting before you start buying more stuff.

I made this list so that it has a mix of unit types and sizes, playing it a few times will help you get a feel for what different units are capable of.

I have also included only 1 inspiring unit so that other stuff can fit in, normally you want 1 inspiring for every 500-700 points.

Maybe I'm just shit at navigating their site, but Wargame Factory merged with some other minis company, and by the look of it, stopped selling like 99% of their product range, skeletons included.

Warlord bought them out. WGF's stuff will be available on Warlord's store sooner or later.

Let's hope so, some of they minis are a very good bargain.

They have put some up like all of their Samurai and the Orcs. Some like their WW2 soldiers are probably never coming back as Warlord would rather sell us their kits (Which are actually better, though slightly more expensive). Skeletons haven't come back yet sadly.

What I really miss is their War of Spanish Succesion cannon. The crew figures look nifty and the entire thing is plastic of course, as opposed to the metal ones that you would have to buy elsewhere.

Previously OOP WGF products are back at my LFGS but not in Warlord web store (the survivors, the zombies and some part of the Spanish range).

Odd as shit.

It's the same here. A lot of the OOP kits are still stocked, but they just haven't moved rather than the store ordering more. They even had the skeletons, but someone else already bought them.

But that's the thing, before that they weren't stocked, and weren't available even at a national level anymore. Now they are back, and I think I saw Warlord games written on the boxes.

Maybe they're filling out back-orders first.

I don't really care for fantasy dark elves and their skirts, so I'm fooling around with kitbashing some Dark Eldar models. I've only assembled a few, but I'm liking how they look. The fact that they are meant for a sci-fi game gives them an "advanced race" sort of feel, yet there's nothing that definitely shouldn't be there.

Pics about that? Kitbashing units are my fetish.

Mostly in the planning stages. Here's what this fellow looks like with simply his arms replaced with fantasy dark elf spearman arms. Not sure I want to go this route with the spear + shield, or have the spearmen using them two handed, since their plate armor could easily represent their De score.