Warmahordes General

No one is talking about Lynnsa. Hunters mark is going to be bretty gud if we're playing more heavies. She has a 17 inch bubble and it's Magic power 7. Gives a free focus and +2 charge range to anything charging it. That's enough to enable a lot of assassination if you can keep her concealed.

I'm looking forward to running her in crocs. I'm tempted to take a swamp horror with her and extending everyone's threat ranges by 4. +2 from hunters mark and +2 from the reach pull. with Warpath up under Barnie that becomes 16" threat on a wrassler. 2 pow 17s and a pow 20 at mat 6 and with 4 fury is going to get very messy for anything short of a colossal. and if I don't need the rage animus I can give it reach instead making it 18" threat. Not bad for a 16 point heavy

MoW are absolutely not better than Mk2 Warders, because they have to use Shield Wall if they want to get super-ARM, which is incredibly fucking limiting.

You're just delusional.

>So you feel Shield Guard makes up for the following:

Yes. If you don't understand how valuable it is then you're playing at scrub-tier and your opinion is worthless.

Using her storm with Wurmwood's feat will cause beautiful butt pain.

Cygnar is definitely ahead of khador. Everything in khador was adjusted to be solidly in the B+ to A+ range. Cygnar still has some S stuff, with not much lower than an A.

Can someone post a link to the Legion Mk3 faction deck imgur please? I forgot to bookmark it when they got posted last week.

pretty sure all the imgur stuff got taken down

>Shield Guard makes up for all of that

You're on drugs user. I've listed the multiple ways they're better and you pull out the scrub-tier argument. "Git gud". Mm hmm.

Maybe not as good as Mk 2 Warders, that might have been hyperbole. But certainly better than Mk 3 Warders..

To be at their high arm, they're walking speed 4 up the field. Unless you put 5 points into a UA in which case they're walking speed 6.

Warders are running 10 inches or charging 8 and still having all their benefits, they have tough, shield guard, and def 12 instead of 10. Def 12 means mat 6 is missing them 41% of the time.

That's the difference.

5 points into a solo, rather.

>Maybe not as good as Mk 2 Warders, that might >have been hyperbole. But certainly better than >Mk 3 Warders..

Where's your problem then? That the creme de la creme of multi-wound infantry as far as the lore goes finally gets to be what it should be while Trollbloods Buff-Synergy-Box-o-Rama of Fun-Destruction was nerfed? Indeed, sense-filled opinion

mmm.
a little salt.

is that blue crystals i see?

It's basically a 5-point UA. One that can't keep up with the unit it buffs, because the buff's not affecting the buffer itself, another reason why it should be a UA instead of a solo.

The ATGM Rifle-Dude alone is a spit in Khadors face with it being an all around better sniper that THE snipers aka Widowmakers, which got nerfed to uselessness with silly high point costs for models without matching special abilities matching those point costs.

Man o Wars are supposed to be played with the UA, the kovnik solo with desparate pace, and pIrusk reposition orders. Walk 9" in shield and regain weapon master, immune to push and knockdown

What does "regain weapon master" mean here

It means that guy thinks MoWs used to have WM.

Yes if you keep comparing these 2 units in a total vacuum then yeah you will find differences between khador and trolls that you don't like but consider what trolls can do that khador (and every other faction right now) can't do.
Champs are def12 arm16 with defensive line. Making them def14 arm18 under stone. Add madrak1 sure foot spell and we have def16 arm18 heavy infantry which is something that with spoilers to this point no other faction in the game can do.

>these troll tears

They're delicious. Warders were overpowered, warped the meta and held back the faction.

They deserved a nerf. PP wanted to make MoWs the best medium based infantry in the game, so they did. Bitch more faggit

Who's read The Blood of Kings? I just finished it, I thought it was alright.

You keep trying to compare troll armor skew to khador armor skew. And yes khador is better at it. Because that is all they have now. With the change to iron flesh, khador cannot run a high def skew any more. No more def19 kayazy no more def19 Butcher. Or def ten million sorcha. Khador is doing it's kind of armor thing and trolls have way more options. You can't look at 1 unit from each side and make doom predictions off of that.

Warders got better than they currently were in Mark 2.

And it's faggot, get an education.

Magnus was right, Julius is too much of a pussy like Leto though.

Are you sure they are, though? I think reciprocators are the best medium based infantry. They trade 1 point of arm for 2 def, and can either choose to have equal pow as shock troops or to have set defense. 14/20 is a pretty damn nice statline without any support. Lucant has deflection and his +4 arm feat, iron mother has tac supremacy for reposition 3. And they're speed 5.

not happy with midwinter stuff but was okay otherwise

Damn. Was hoping to figure out which Warlock I'm going to build a list for first.

I can give you the legion PDF if you want.

>Widowmakers
>nerfed to uselessness

U wot m8?

Minions look pretty ill now. They're the only hordes faction that's been able to get me excited.

They lost camo and are now 8 points. Cygnar can take two rifleman solos for 8 points that are better than the widowmaker solo.

They lost Camouflage. Everyone not horrible at shooting can get rid of them. And 1 shot per 2 point cost. Yeah, that's damn nice, when marksman/sniper is the only thing they get. Deadly shot should've been a no brainer for them, or at least be granted by the Widowmaker Marksman. Or Stealth. Not just keeping the cost but cutting away the defensive tech.

Also, I like how the widowmaker marksman is FA 1 while the objectively superior arcane rifleman is FA2. Both cost the same.

>They lost camo and are now 8 points.

So? 8 points in Mk3 is the equivalent of 4 Mk2 points (i.e., the same exact point cost they are in Mk2). And, yeah, they lost Camo, but they now ignore Tough. Honestly, not much of a nerf.

As for the Marksman, he got a straight buff since he traded Sniper for Deadly Shot.

You're an idiot if you think they're useless now.

Everything else in the game got cheaper, and the point total of the game decreased, so they are relatively more expensive.

>Everything else in the game got cheaper
If you seriously think Widowmakers aren't going to see play, you're an absolute idiot and there is no getting through to you.

They're too expensive. Why not take Kell for 5 points to get off two deadly shots with a magical gun at higher rat and prowl?

Too slow for you :/

>Why not take Kell for 5 points to get off two deadly shots with a magical gun at higher rat and prowl?

For less than twice that, you get off twice as many shots without needing to sit still and aim. And you get Friendly faction buffs. And Deadly Shot doesn't really benefit you when you're popping single wound models.

Agreed. I'm trying to work out 2 lists now that don't require me to buy 2 Blind walkers. I think it might be fun to run Barnie and a swamp horror since Warpath will make them much faster and they have 4 attacks at base. Casting rage on it making them pow 15 chain attack and then pow 18 pecks.

Rage in general seems pretty insane. +3 strength with no downside is going to wreck face.

Oh boy, friendly faction buffs. Which buffs are you thinking of that are relevant for them?

There is no reason not to do that. Widowmakers are, if those spoilers are the final truth (which I don't hope/believe) inferior to almost any other sniper in the game, from a game value perspective. They should rename them Winterguard Snipers and get rid of the fancy looking name, if this is theirs final status

>AK changes
I'm not sure if they're better or worse for it. Strakhov giving them a meaningful buff is nice, at least.

You get 2 times the non magical shots, so hurray for you. Also, less wounds, less space taken up (for terrain, thats now significant and, afaik, prowl). Your arguments stands invalid on the FFB's, because there is virtually nothing that would benefit them with the loss of the good version of Iron Flesh.

S&P, HoF, various feats such as Irusk's which gives uber tough and a RAT bonus, Shatter Storm, also they're great for triggering Road to War with Karchev. The list goes on.

They lost volume of attacks, lost assault and battery for an inferior assault, and at least their gas used to be a gimmick where you could lower something's def a bit. And you can't blow up their flamethrower anymore.

But I guess they got +1 rat? Hooray?

I'll grant you Road to War, I was planning on fielding them for that. And shatter storm is okay. But the others are marginal.

Oh, and they picked up brutal charge, which is decent. Still don't think that makes them worth using.

>I'll grant you Road to War, I was planning on fielding them for that. And shatter storm is okay. But the others are marginal.

How about the interactions with Irusk2? Pop them in an Artifice of Deviation AoE and cast Solid Ground. DEF 18 and immune to blasts and KD on your AD snipers and suddenly you have a hard to remove unit upfield from the rest of your force popping shots at the enemy early on to inflict some early casualties.

Weald Secrets from the Old Witch so they can ignore concealment and cover.

The brutal charge was probably to compensate for losing the shield attack and assault+battery.

But yeah, they lost their toolboxes and didn't really get anything to push them into proper usability. I was kinda hoping the third time would be the charm, but I guess it's back to wishing for an officer attachment.

>lost assault and battery for an inferior assault

What exactly makes assault and battery better than assault?

I read that it has a Vlad vs Vinter fight. Is it good?

Assault and Battery lets you shoot and then run. Or shoot and then charge at a different target than the one you shot at.

Assault is only better in the case of the flamethrowers, since they shoot after the charge.

Without putting anything short of a fuckton into the unit. Oh wait, you did that. Which other snipers don't need to do their damn job, and therefore don't charge you ridiculous amounts of pay for magical results.

Yeah, I feel that in general your opponent will be appreciative of any upkeeps you put on the 4 model sniper unit instead of a 10 model anything else unit.

With that amount of resources channeled into them, other units would deal quite probably better with threats and would do so cheaper.

Will the Blood of the Kings novel take place during the MK2 or MK3?

I think it's the 2 year interim

You would at least appear to be a gentlemen to your opponent for running sub optimal on principle

It takes place like 5 minutes after Vengeance

Units of that size should run without much support. And the good ones do just that, without being overpriced^^

>if those spoilers are the final truth (which I don't hope/believe)

Dat desperate, clinging hope.

Except they don't NEED those to get work done. These examples are meant to show the benefits of being Friendly Faction as opposed to Merc options. Read the conversation.

Widowmakers will get shit done. They always have and they will continue to do so with or without support.

Are they as good as they were? Not necessarily, but saying they're worthless now is completely retarded.

>what is ranking officer

Can anyone share the Wrath of the Dragonfather or Blood of Kings pdf?

Oh, I will keep playing the, that's not the case, but I will keep criticizing bad design and unfair balancing issues. If you wan't to read my anger and me stating them being useless as without any hyperbole, that's your problem. Are they mindfully priced?
No way.
Do they reflect what they should be fluffwise?
No way.
Do they have the power to be evenly up there with other factions sniping option, which are mostly not lored to be such feared snipers, with or without buffs? No f-ing way.

It's Man-O-Wars all over again. Once upon a time our med-base infantry was something special. Then almost everyone else got their version, and they were overall vastly superior to our version. Same happens here again, just not on that scale and partially through rewriting the rules.

Indeed, I keep hoping for a bit more brain put into the whole balancing, not just for my faction^^

>They lost camo and are now 8 points.
>They lost Camouflage.

I almost never ran them in cover or concealment. They never got shot off the table.

Assault and battery let you take shots before moving and at targets different than your charge target. So, assuming they hit you could clear the front line of a unit and charge into the back ranks of the unit and really rip it up.

Also, imo assault is a side grade to assault and battery. You trade the ability to kill more dudes for the ability to extend your guns range by 3" (and threat 18 guns are no joke). Plus rat6 will actually hit the broad side of a God damned barn once in awhile.

>inferior to almost any other sniper in the game, from a game value perspective.

Every sniper in the game can at maximum kill 1 model a turn if it moves. Widow makers are 8 pts and can kill 4 a turn. On top of this you can take every sniper possible along side of them and two round heavies at range.

I dont understand why you are crying like a little faggot.

any kind anons have spoiler links? I've been out of the loop for a few days, now every thing seems to have been taken down.

rat6 is pretty nice, but losing the gas debuff is rough

speak neither for you nor your opponents. Maybe you never used them defectively and therefore your opponents never saw a threat in them.

Probably because your brain is small enough to think a a whining faggot. Pretty sure that's it. Every other Sniper is not defined only by his kill potential against single wound grunts, which you astonishing retarded falsely hypothesized. They have no def tech anymore, have nothing that makes their shot more fearful or flexible (Armor Piercing, different attack types, etc.) And are overpriced in comparison to other snipers when you regard all this.

srs, dat autocorrect...

four points

Sure I'll take it if you're offering.

A point tax

Except for Skorne, who got the shaft this time as well. Now they where bad in mk2, had some "one trick pony" stuff going down in the best of cases. But now, now they seem absolutely horrible. Sure, a lot of things has been nerfed, but just take Khador for instance, everyone seems to have gotten something thats the new "thing". The only thing that was something for Skorne in mk2 was molik missile, the bronzeback and HI spam, and all that got nerfed... .and the rest as well.
I don't even play Skorne and even I was like "lul wut?" when the insider was released. Apart from some ranged (bad sales I guess) units, and of course the cav, all things got from bad to worse. And we all know they only bumped the things that didn't sell during mk2 (and no wonder, their cav units are crazy expensive for shit ugly models!).

>tfw coc
>tfw literally nothing relevant changed
SAME AS IT EVER WAS

and, this a surprise to you?

No, I have reached mathematical enlightenment.
Change is wrong.
C is perfect.

Did you miss the memo that CoC was the pre-launch team for mk3? A "try it out" team if you will.

How does the new Cygnar sniper compare with Iosan Ghost Snipers? As that seems like a more fair comparison than a full unit of snipers.

Are they going to be good this edition? What about light artillery in general?

troll player here. Another key difference between how both units get to arm 21 is that warders can run and get to 21. Man-o-wars have to use the order which means they're only moving 4" unless they're desperate paced, in which case its 6". I don't have the cards in front of me but didn't warders go up to spd 5 as well?

Didnt light artillery get buffed pretty hard

How is Cryx looking in mk3? Heard some good things about slayers. Is revenant crew finally worth using?

>Skorne
>Only faction with no free charges
>PP laughs and says have a free slam
>Fuck you PP

ghost sniper
6 4 4 7 14 11 7
rng 14 rof 1 pow 10
pc3 fa2
marksman, swifthunter, pathfinder
deadly shot

arcane rifleman
6 4 5 7 14 11 7
rng 14 rof 1 pow 10
pc4 fa2
aim to ignore stealth, reposition 3", marksman
magic weapon and select shot type:
deadly shot or
snipe or
blessed

melee identical

Select two shot types

Such as a range 18 deadly shot

Valachev can only be attached to units, not solos. Remind me again, which Merc units are snipers?

I'll give you a hint: None.

>They have no def tech anymore
You seriously overestimate the usefulness of Camo. I rarely had it come into play and I used Widowmakers in most of my lists.

>have nothing that makes their shot more fearful or flexible (Armor Piercing, different attack types, etc.) And are overpriced in comparison to other snipers when you regard all this.

Luckily you can bring 4-5 of them unlike other factions which are limited to a couple solos. Also, you're making the classic blunder of making 1:1 comparisons across factions instead of comparing them to the options available to the faction.