Warhammer 40k General

Can any unit get mastery level 8 normally? Because unless I'm missing something, that's what the Primaris Psyker gets with this formation. (+1 mastery level per 5 Wyrdvane within 12")

Thunderhawks, same way that Tau come from Mantas.

ML4 is the highest, and even ML3 is rare. He doesn't get 8 powers though, just 8 warp charges.

Speaking of 'Crons.

Were the special characters ever available in pewter or did they come out after finecast?

Was pic related an Alpha Legion agent?

Vanguard Veterans are better assault marines because they have two attacks.

Sternguard veterans are "better" Devastators because they have... Two attacks and less heavy weapon slots?

It would be fun, but check out IA13/Vraks. One of the Renegade Shock Master things gives Ogryns as troops, and they can be given chaos devotions, carapace armour, and doggos to help them run down anything they run into. three ogryns and six doggos will mince basically everything, although theyre too expensive to be cheese

Sternguard are veteran Tacticals. Dev marines dont get veterans, same as they dont get devastator Terminators

The wording gives them away. Vanguard is frontline, the leading troops, the advance. Sternguard is literally "Protecting the back/from the back", it's just another word for Rearguard.

yes. i guess even shooty marines consider cqc important

i think gw was done with pewter after 4th edition, so they would have to only be in finecast

>Vehicles gain the Split-fire USR
>Vehicles gain +1 Hull Point
>Vehicles get to reduce rolls on the damage chart by their remaining hull points, counted after the hull point for the hit in question is removed
Are vehicles fixed? The latter two are fairly commonly espoused here, but the first gives Vehicles an edge relative to MC/GC and makes the ubiquitous secondary weapons carried by almost all vehicles a lot more effective.

Doesn't even look like an SM, sauce?

Shit, I may try that out since I already have a regular IG army. The FW models for renegades are pretty sweet, too.

Whats the recommended loadout for an Imperial knight? I just picked up the renegade box set and I'm not really sure which way I should go with it. For the record, they will be allying with Imperial guard and Imperial fists.

Read the filename satan. *Hint* (conan)

I mistook a meme for an actual doubt lol

Trying to start up a Corsairs Army whats better anti-tank:
>S8 AP2 Assault 1 Lance
Or
>S8 AP1 Assault 1 Melta

Thunderstrike Gauntlet because Fists. Call him EXEMPLAR OF THE FIST and call it The Pain Glove.

Proceed to fist fortifications.

FW renegade models are sweet, but i just run three units of four that i converted from WHFB Ogres, with five chaos warhounds each, as converting like mad is two thirds of the fun of Renegades.

Crusader is probably the best one
I really like Errant with a Fist for FUN

Which is hilarious. Early on you have the dev/assault split, then Tactical Marines who are nominally more experienced but are nowhere near as well equipped, then veterans split between generalist and assault specialist with no ranged element.

10 MM magnets.

Imperial Cysts. Totally not a Nurgle warband in disguise.

Alpha legion will do that to ya, as intended

Isn't the problem with vehicles that they can get blown up in one shot or rendered totally useless?
Remove the vehicle damage table

There's a pornsite called Nurgle's Nymphs.

You...
I Like you.

If i wasnt on uni internet i would search that shit

Were Land Raiders ever good? Their fire arcs are horrendous and they have very low firepower to cost ratio even when you can make everything hit.

I think they're more important as sturdy assault transports.

CSM since 5th.. I always liked my Land Raider. It always attracted a lot of fire and Av14 is still kinda tough to pop unless you get up close with Melta, an even then it's still medium-chance. The firepower is versatile too and it carries terminators or a clump of assaulters for any threat coming to fuck you up the tailpipe.

Gotcha, mate.
They... used to be better, when it was harder to crack av14. That said, they were transports that could dakka on their way to choppy.

For an undivided chaos daemon army is it a good idea to get Karanak if you don't have flesh hounds?

They're the only way to make assault centurions useful, and they're so heavily armored that it's not worth shooting them with anything but melta/grav/haywire etc. It's a waste of an S10 AP1 shot that actually has a chance of wrecking something else.

Plus, a Redeemer in a Fist of Medusa detachment can tank shock an infantry squad 12" away and then unleash both Flamestorm Cannons. It's fucking brutal.

Pretty much this . The true value of a land raider isn't so much the land raider, but what it is transporting. That said, 250 pts for a sturdy transport is a bit ridiculous to me.

(not that user, but) with this change, vehicles couldn't be blown up, even with AP1 weapons while they had at least 3 hull points remaining. If they have 2 left, it takes an AP1 weapon to blow it up (on a 6), and AP2 can only blow it up when it takes the last hullpoint off anyway.
(hullpoints left *before* rolling to hit in these examples)

Even if you did have flesh hounds, Karanak isn't super amazing. At best the idea would be not bad. In most cases, it would be a waste of 120 pts.

vs AV12:
>33% chance to pen, 16% chance to explode
>83% chance to pen, 33% chance to explode
vs AV13:
>33% chance to pen, 16% chance to explode
>72% chance to pen, 33% chance to explode
vs AV14:
>33% chance to pen, 16% chance to explode
>58% chance to pen, 33% chance to explode
The Lance probably has the advantage of range, but it's nowhere near as good at killing things.

Why aren't the Barghesi a playable army

You bastard, this is all irl shit

Thats literally the point. People are upset that it is so easy to blow up a tank but a MC requires you to strip off every last wound, while it maintains full functionality the whole time.

It is a problem, but I'd argue that it is a primarily acadamic one. Consider this: with the new damage table, it is harder to guarantee an explosion result unless you're bringing a metric butt load of melta/ap1 to the table. In most cases, vehicles die to Hull Point stripping, especially if they are not av14 all around. However, I would like to posit that the primary problem isn't with Hull Points or getting that Explode result, but with saves or the lack thereof. Vehicles in general have shitty ways of getting saves so 3 good shots and a vehicle is dead, explosion or no. I know that vehicles don't get saves but are offset by having high AV (av10 is the equivalent of t6, av12 is the equivalent of t8) but this rarely works out to even the gulf between monstrous creatures and vehicles in general.

The problem isn't with vehicles, it's with MCs. All MCs need their HP reduced by about a third.

Vehicles could probably stand to have their speeds increased, which would do more to differentiate vehicles from creatures, and make AV10 and AV11 vehicles much more useful.

What are the negative consequences if I want to play allied Iron Hands + Skitarii in CADs but take unbound rhinos for the Skitarii?

Utter newfag here, returning from 3rd ed because a game shop just opened up nearby. I'm going Eldar for reasons of fluffery, and I'm not sure what to get next. I currently have:
Farseer
6 Scorps
5 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians with plat

Wat next? I'm not taking wraith anything until the meta is at 1000+ pts, I hear they are OP as fuck and I don't want to be that guy. I was thinking the box of 3 Vypers or maybe a Night Spinner. Something vehicular, anyways. Probably going up against 'Nids first, though maybe Marines. Any suggestions?

How would you feel about this?

belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/40k-open-conversation-should-the-movement-star-return.html

Yeah but it's an unholy alliance between Nurgle and Slaanesh. Guess how many STDs each has?

You lose Objective Secured on everything and the reroll to your Warlord trait, and your Rhinos don't get IWND. Why not just take the Rhinos as an FA choice in the Iron Hands detachment?

Not all MCs, Tyranid MCs (i.e. actual monstrous creatures instead of robots) are nearly all mediocre or Flying. What needs to be done is Riptides and Dreadknights to have their points cost increased to reflect how good they are. The problem is appropriate pricing, not nerfing everything because of half a dozen OP-bullshit monsters.

I liked the suggestion of subtracting remaining HP from damage table results. Makes it impossible to one-shot a land-raider, without removing the table outright.

You'll want to confirm a couple of things.
1. Is your group using the first draft FAQs or are you waiting for the finalized product?

2. Is your group okay with unbound?

And finally, when you say negative consequences what exactly are you talking about? Consequences from a crunch/tactical stand point?

Tyranid ground MCs stay the same, then. Flyrants and Hive Crones need to get nerfed along with Riptides and Dreadknights.

And then Nids need a buff so they can actually do something useful other than FMC spam.

I'd definitely like to see better differentiation in how units move that doesn't rely on dice beyond doing riskier maneuvers (i.e. trying to sprint at an enemy) but it'd be hard to do right. Like the article said about potentially slighting some armies as well as just straight up adding more stats.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see a fairly simple ruleset that still allows armies to play significantly differently AND have a lot of options. That's, however, pretty much impossible due to one working against another.

Because I'd have to take two SM CADs to get 4 FA Rhinos for the Skitarii and that's kinda prohibitive in low-point games (1000 - 1500)

You can never go wrong with wave serpents and they are not the utter cheese they once were an edition ago so you're safe there. Barring that falcons are also fun times and both them address a very important weakness in your current model lineup - your models are too soft.

>Makes it impossible to one-shot a land-raider
That's not something that ever happens anyway. With a Lascannon, you need two 6s in a row to blow one up. 1/36 is pretty damn good odds, especially for something that can shrug off so many other attacks. Melta has a much higher chance of exploding a Land Raider, but no one ever just sends a single meltagun against a Land Raider, and if they do there's no reason why you shouldn't assault out and kill them first.

Hive Crones are a fairly decent unit but not amazing at anything other than killing flyers, i feel they're appropriately costed. Flyrants could be given a small price increase on the wings adaptation, or have a hard limit of 0-1 tyrant per army. Finally, give their guns actual AP, increase the amount of adaptations 2+ carnifexes again when and give more psychic variety to powers of the hive mind while making Shadow of the Warp actually do something-minus 3 leadership to psykers is fucking pathetic, make them harness on 5s or something. Finally, give them actually non-prohibitive rules, like giving the instinctive buff when in synapse.

Only the Wraithknight and Wraithguard with Flamers are OP. Unless you're turning up with just Scatbikes and Wraithknights nobody should say shit.

Store doesn't recognize the FAQ even though it's an official GW, manager is waiting for the final draft.

I'm talking purely from a rules/crunch standpoint, I can justify it in fluff once I sit down and figure the list and play style out.

One CAD and one AD. It's not that bad. Or, if you have anything like Lascannon Devastators or something that don't go in a vehicle, you can take a dedicated transport for them and then put the Skitarii in it.

>Remove vehicle damage chart
And yet again, fatguys only think of their own army. Some armies rely on Explodes results from low AP weapons to deal with vehicles, they literally don't have high-strength, high rate-of-fire guns that can ping off hull points.

You lot are fucking shit at rules writing.

You could take three units of whatever and then make the fourth rangers and sit them in the backfield. Unless you're doing four ruststalkers or something.

My store's meta recently went out and decided that we weren't using the FAQ until it's final.

Then again, my meta involves a few given things, such as a specific style of terrain, where there's 50% Area Terrain, and 4 large pieces of line of sight blocking terrain(One in each corner of the board where Dawn of War and Hammer and Anvil intersect). And we use the ITC FAQ.

I am offended! Not once did I propose for the removal of the vehicle chart. When I said the new chart, I am referring to the new one we got in 7th where you need ap2 and a 6 to actually explode something. Because of this it actually makes explode results even more unlikely which has shifted popular opinion towards high rate of fire weapons to strip hull points. That you quoted me twice only adds salt to the wound.

2 5-man double plasma & 2 5-man double arc, for rhino drive-bys

>Broodlord
>£25

>Techpriest Enginseer (the one that used to come with a tank)
>£18

That's all that's leaked so far.

Thats a balance issue with those armies, not with the vehicle damage chart. No one can possibly think that vehicles and MCs are balanced with each other, wich the removal of the chart starts to shorten the gap

And some armies are garbage. What's your point?

>Broodlord £25

Actually kinda an insult. Not quite as bad as Age of Sigmar selling a clampack character with a scenic base and extra packaging for £50, but close.

I would say swap a plasma squad for rangers, and run a CAD with it

Vehicles are balanced against infantry. MCs are not balanced in line with either.

Nope, they're not balanced. In close combat a walker consistently kicks the shit out of an MC. But you're so myopic you can only see the one situation you care about.
Reminder that the meltagun isn't the problem, the drop pod is the problem.

Also, everybody having the same weapons set was shit. Some armies not having autocannon-equivalents makes listbuilding more interesting.

How does a model which can lose its x2 S AP2 CCW on a pen, and die to a single good pen, consistently outperform MCs, who can never die in one hit besides ID, & who have AP2 naturally?

S6 vs AV12 front armour.

(not that user, but) most MCs have strengths around 6ish, and most walkers have AVs around 12 ish, and a single smash attack isn't doing anything.
While most walkers have some sort of higher strength ap2 attack

I won't let you faggots nerf my dreadknights unless you give me better options/formations equivalent to spacreate marines. Until then you can fuck of with your generalizations and rules changes.

Carnifexes pay a premium for S8 Standard, and then have to pay extra for making it S10 by using an Sx2 melee weapon for the same cost as everyone else. Dreadnoughts have a points advantage in that they only pay for S6 standard, and paying less than everyone else for Sx2 melee.

In addition, Dreadnoughts have higher initiative and more attacks than typical monsters. They actually tend to mop the floor with monsters at the same points cost. Therefore walkers are a hard counter for monsters, and indeed they are in my experience.

Has anyone ever used the Onager Gauntlet to great effect? Seems to me unless you're facing a big fucking vehicle like a Land Raider, it's a lot more efficient to just blast it from range and fuck off with JSJ

*space

Your correct

Isn't Onager Gauntlet just Smash? One S10 attack against a Land Raider is useless.

Ok /40k/ I've got an idea so crazy for a list it just might work
It's not specific because rough draft and I'm lazy

HQ:
Chapter Master

Infantry (10 man squads):
5 Tac Squads with Teleport Homer
2 Devastator Squads

Elite Units (5 man squads):
4 Terminator Squads

Transport:
4 Rhinos

Heavy Support:
3 Predators

Artillery:
3 Whirlwinds

Overall it's like 3000 points, or at least 2500 (again, just a rough draft, haven't worked out the specifics)

See pic related for strategy. If paths get too narrow, the formation can break into 1 Pred/1 Rhino/1 Tac Squad with the last rhino doing its best to stay close to the rest of the army. If the path gets narrower still, the Combat Squad can split and follow each rhino and Predator as it goes along.

When there's a huge firefight coming, the Terminators can Teleport Homer into the battlefield with no risk of missing the target

I've already tried this strategy on a smaller scale and it worked pretty well. What do you guys think?

Brought out my Deathwing against a Nurgle CSM force last night.
1500 points. Maelstorm Mission: Contact Lost. Dawn of War deployment. He had first.

He brought a small unit of Cultists and some Plague Marines then 2x 3 Nurgle Obliterators and Nurgle Bikers that included his Lord and Sorceor, they all had plasma. Lastly a Defiler.

I brought Ezekiel with an Interogator Chaplain in a Deathwing Strike Force with a Command Squad (2 TH/SS, Cyclones, Apoth and DW Standard) The other unit of 6 Terminators had 3 TH/SS, cyclones and a chain fist. I brought the RW Support Squadron and two Attack Squadrons as a delivery system.

His Sorceror died to perils turn one and it was pretty grim. He couldn't cross the field to get anywhere near my RW so I was safe. (My Support Squad was Center and the two attacks on each flank). His Oblits had melta stuff and were trying to get close to my Landspeeder unit and his bikers were gunning towards my own from the Attack Squad. He was able to score 2 points.
My turn 1 let me get my Grav Bikers into range of the oblits and took out one. I typhooned his cultists, they went to ground but still took out 3. I drowned his bikers in 21 Heavy Bolter shots that landed 3 unsaved wounds, leaving him 4 bikers including his HQ. I destroyed the Defiler with Double Multimelta Landspeeder. My melta attack bikes were close to popping the Plague Marine transport but didn't even hit it... I scored nothing.

Hello Cryptus

Cont.

He was able to pop one of my landspeeders and got into CQC with my grav bikers although I got one wound in overwatch but easily lost combat gaining him another point. Everything else kind of moved around and the plague marines disembarked and sat on another objective. Also killed one of my two MultiMelta Attack bikes. He ended his turn with a total of 5 points to my 0.
My turn two brought the Deathwing and I Mind Wiped the Nurlge Bikers making their WS/BS 1. The Deathwing dispersed and I had a unit on each flank. Split fired the Cyclones and my Typhoons at the remaining cultist wiping them out. They then shot the crap out of Oblits. I popped the rhino for shits and giggles. Again I shot the 5 remaining Heavy Bolters at the bikes. Scored a point for shooting some cultists with a load of weapons. The plague marines took one wound from the lone MultiMelta Attack Bike

Turn 3 he assaulted the Support Squadron with bikers and oblits. Took out a biker in overwatch before losing another Landspeeder. His plague marines destroyed the double multimelta Landspeeder. His plan was basically to not deal with my deathwing. Score was 7-2.
I was able to mind wipe and assault his plague marines with the Termi Command Squad and two HQs and beat the crap out of them. I didn't lose a single termi. After that and the shooting they were gone so I could finally get on an objective. The other termis shot uselessly at the last 3 Oblits. Typhoons were able to take one of them out though.

Turn Four he threw his bikers into the regular termis and hid his last few Oblits. They were his only two units left. He called it.

>horror of the Tyranids
Hah! Cruddance will stop them.

So I'm going to be playing in an Escalation campaign soon, starting at 750pts, and I wanted to start an IG army.

I thought I'd start with 2 getting started boxs and a chimera, and I think I could make the following list.

HQ
Pask: Executioner+sponsons
Battle tank
both with dozers and camo

Troops:
Vets: Chimera, 2 meltas and a heavy flamer. Carapace armor and a comissar with a powerfist

Vets: Heavy bolter team, grenade launcher and a forward sentry upgrade.

That's 750s.

Could I actually make this list from those kits. And how good would that list be?

Huh, see I was leaning away from the Serpent because it doesn't bring much gun for the points, and any unit protected by it (i.e. inside) can't shoot. Am I missing something about them, or is it I just can't into tactics? Would you recommend the Fire Prism or the Night Spinner?

Oh coolio, thanks- I'm playing as a splinter of Iyanden that goes out and recovers lost Wraithbone shit, so I'm dying to get my mitts on some 'Guard or a Lord. Obviously I'm gonna gonna start LoW'ing until everyone else is. Are there any other cheesy units that will shit up the game group? Going to be 500pts for the forseeable.

Not exactly. Smash gives all CC attacks AP2 and can choose to make a single attack with Sx2 and Re-roll AP.

I'm just trying to figure out why you would take/use an Onager Gauntlet aside from cool factor and "It's cheap and had nothing else to get"

How often would an Inquisitor be able to make a pilgrimage to Terra?