What went wrong?

Okay, I hate AoS as much as the next dude.. but pal, do you really have to make the same thread again and again..??

Nothing went wrong

WHFB was a dead trash game

It was the setting being canned entirely or morphed into Age of Sigmar

WHFB fans were gonna cry either way so they decided to court a new fanbase.

Sigmar was the wrong god. Should have been Age of Slaanesh.

The initial ruleset and its jokey 'pretend to ride a horse' bullshit. I don't care if they later canned it, putting it out as the first thing people saw after a beloved (if poorly aging and terribly handled) game just heightened any resentment that people already had.

If they at least used the "Living document" to fix the core rules and update scrolls to fix blatantly broken shit like scarabs then I might consider it, but they seem to have no intention of making the gameplay good. As you said having joke rules, even with newer releases like the Fireslayers, doesn't help the perception that they simply don't take it seriously.

A new fanbase that only existed in gw's delusional mind, the game is tanking hard enough that my local gw store doesn't even have a playerbase and every other store in my area basically regards the game with open disdain and have started to phase it out of their inventory.

I feel really bad for some of these store owners who bought the stock. My FLGS has marked off all fantasy boxes for 30% off since October, and most of them still haven't moved.

Too bad the numbers were released showing that the game is doing better (30% of GW sales) and if we're doing anecdotes then every store in my area is running monthly tournaments with some having them weekly

>those sales were last chance WHFB players

so little WHFB players exist that I doubt it.

Introducing Sigmarines BEFORE giving us [insert literally any army here] - Also making Khorne the posterchild of Chaos when -everyone- is fucking sick and tired of Khorne at this point.

You know AoS would have been the shit if it launched with Ironjawz Orcs VS Flesh Eater ghouls

I am sure that most of those numbers come from panic sales and the fact that they released more fantasy models in that timespan then they did at most points before AoS.

>Too bad the numbers were released showing that the game is doing better (30% of GW sales)
Source, except of whineseer?

>Too bad the numbers were released showing that the game is doing better (30% of GW sales)

I don't have a source but I'd like to remind you that your game of choice is dead and it isn't coming back and it got replaced with a good one.

You've wasted all your time

Your game is dead

haha u lose i win

He doesn't have one aside from some rumor monger who said sales were up. Revenue was consistently down all of last year and its pretty clear GW is imploding and I have a real source on that

iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop:-denial

Underrated post

Except gw is going out of business anyway and the ip WILL be bought by someone else. AoS has only accelerated the decline.

Damn Games Workshop is dead and imploding just like I heard it was in 2001. This time will really be the one I'm sure

Why do you buttkissers always ignore the fact that GW could have just fixed the issues with WHFB that they caused because of their own greed? WHFB was one of the best selling games in North America before GW messed it up let alone Europe where it always did better.

Why would WHFB fans cry because GW stopped fucking with their game and jacking the prices?

Replaced by a good one as in 9th Age and Kings of War? Sounds about right.

30%. The percentage WHFB made up in GW sales, the percentage a single box outsold the entire WHFB line, the percentage it outsold the 40k line, the percentage AoS outsold WHFB, the percentage AoS outsold 40k, the percentage 40k outsold WHFB, and the percentage 40k was outsold by AoS.

Get your facts straight, everybody knows this stuff. It's not even a question anymore.

>This time
Its all the same implosion, its just taking longer than people hoped

I never played WHFB though. The only GW game I played was BFG, which is coming back.

>still no source
>hurr you should believe me because everyone else does

>good one

AoS is actually the worst wargame I have ever read the rules for.

Not a single thing about it is sensible or well made and its clear the people behind it do not even give a shit.

Marking FB boxes down 50% would have the same effect. The sales volumes GW enjoyed in 2004 can never again be matched because, in 2016, even their alleged "deals" are still priced far into the tardosphere.

I was actually called 'insane' for saying plastic infantry of GW quality should be $1.50 each or less.

Yet other companies with lower sales pull it off.

Kirby.

>what went wrong
>the people behind it do not give a shit

/thread

>Implying Kirby was a real problem

>plastic model street values

Light infantry models: US$1-2ea
Heavy infantry: $2-3
Cav: 3-5
Sm Walkers: 5-7
Lg Walkers: 10-20
Jeep/ Rhino: 15-25
Lt Tank: 20-30
Hv Tank/ Fighter: 30-40
SH Tank/ GC/ Bomber: 40-50
18-24in Titans/ Gundams: 50-100

tl;dr: Chinaman pricing.

>implying

It's a dead certainty. As long as Kirby was content to stay at the Yacht Club, the company did okay. The moment [in 2004] he staggered in to show everybody "how it was done" his meddling turned everything to shit. Even when everybody there worked toward saving their bacon in spite of his reverse Midas touch, stupid decisions would scuttle all momentum, and they'd be scrambling again.

First of all, annoying existing customers by failing to manage the previous editions of the Fantasy battles game so that they don't alienate newer players and older players alike. People seem to forget a large amount of people just quietly stopped playing through the first 2 years of 8th edition, not that it just wasn't bringing in new players. Focusing on large monster/machine kits whilst working for 40k (and very profitable), did not for fantasy as the base game didn't make them particularly useful for the most part, and did a lot to aggravate oldfags. Certain changes in aesthetic were often not well received either, like the changed Empire state troops set.

Secondly, killing off a pretty well loved setting. Whilst movie series and comics can reboot endlessly, the investment in time and money required of a game setting means this rarely works for them. White Wolf kinda got away with it for their setting but only because the setting had really become a clusterfuck and they had a reboot of everything to replace it. Age of Sigmar was not a direct reboot, but a follow-on that changed most of everything to the point of it being barely recognisable as having any connection to the warhammer fantasy world.
Setting matters for building and sustaining interest in a game long term, especially when the mechanics are nothing spectacular, and the company is mostly selling a 'your dudes' aspect.

Thirdly, the mechanics of AoS are crap. I've played/read a ton of wargames over the years, even helped make a few. AoS's rules are in the league of something you'd find thrown together in a weekend by someone wanting to just have a quick game with whatever was on hand, but by someone with very little idea of how to design a game other than through mimicry. This is a really shit basis for a commercial product even if giving the game away for free as a pdf, and being free is not an excuse for poor quality given how many decent, well designed free games there are out there.

No pointsystem to create your army was the main-issue.

Well, I heard that AoS is most times played by kids in GW-stores. Cause of the easier rules, compared to 40K.

>haha u lose i win

You have to be at least 18 to use this site

>dat pic
Wow! No wonder why they cannot compete even with FFG now.

>Too bad the numbers were released showing that the game is doing better (30% of GW sales)
AFAIK total GW sales have dropped. It might be possible that AoS has got percentage increase because 40K doesn't sell as much anymore.

>>those sales were last chance WHFB players
>so little WHFB players exist that I doubt it.
Kings of War players and other fantasy wargamers that really wanted stuff like hard plastic egyptian undead. Last Change to buy is a great way to encourage old players. Also, they most likely don't have future in AoS so why would AoS player buy soon-to-be unsupported faction?

New aesthetics direction
Cost cutting to optimize low quality quantity in art and miniatures designs
Fluff focused on selling stories first, worldbuilding second, rather than the other way around

The numbers released only showed GW has spiralling even faster than before, what you are referring to is a mere rumor from someone who provided no source for it and has followed the trend of other aos rumors who followed the same path coming in the same period of GW reaperture to public channels:
>completely new rumormonger appears
>regurgitates an already known rumor
>says something that will be proved true by GW leaks in a matter of days
>"aos it's totally not a flop, guys! it's on par with 40k...not actually, but it's going to to! well at least it is exactly the same percentage of old fantasy anyway and getting lively!

>so little WHFB players exist that I doubt it.
considering how aos has had no adversiting outside the spread of word from the previous community, to assume that the majority of players is pro-aos or that aos managed to build a completely new customer-base from nothing greater than whfb is extremely stupid

panic buys are a real thing, or the price going on reselling sites wouldn't have been so high

No point cost at release, no communication, focus on Sigmarines and Khorne.
Greatly reduced the price of entry, free rules for everything, focus on storytelling.

Subpar art and aesthethics while incresing the price of the minis, no narrative rules or balance with a very bloated sert of rules (how many different shield rules exist for fuck sake) and destroying a beloved setting (the game was subpar at best in the last years so eh).

>Your game is dead
>haha u lose i win
My game lasted 30 fucking years you braindead moron, how many will last yours?

>The switch from 4 man ranks to 5 man ranks was a mistake

I know the horde rules were a little crazy, but I'm curious how going from 4 to 5 was a mistake. I started playing right with 7th so I'm not super familiar with the previous rules.

This is the fanbase you chose

Not enough info on the new setting. Sure, we got Stormcast, we got some Chaos, this Alarielle plot started pretty soon, also some Nagash and Fyreslayers but that's it. No Aelves, no normal people, no Destruction. We just got Ironjawz. Grand Alliance books introduced some factions but for example Aelves from Silver Tower look much different then GA: Order ones, which were pretty much WFB Elves.

People love new Orruks, love Flesh-Eater Courts fluff, Mannfred plot is fun, Alarielle is getting a beetle and tree-aelves. But everything is moving so slow.

I used to play Dark Elves during 6th and 7th edition of WFB so I want to know more about Malekith/Malerion and Morathi. I'm waiting over a year already and still got pretty much nothing.

Also names are stupid. I know, copyrights but still. If I ever create my own Stormhost I'll rename every unit and hero, kinda like Space Wolves are still Space Marines but with different names slapped on their units.

Some of the art is ugly but some of it is great. Flesh-Eater Courts is mostly amazing. Everchosen is great, anime but still great. It's getting better and better.

I'm sad that WHFB is gone but Warhammer Fantasy lives on. We have awesome Total War: Warhammer and really fun Vermintide (now with Drachenfels DLC).

>focus on storytelling

That is an outright lie. Completely removing balance and making the rules awful does not make a game narrative.

And the models have got even more expensive but you are still encouraged to buy large armies.

>GW could have just fixed the issues with WHFB
>GW
>fix instead of breaking further

It meant that the proper effective block size rose which meant in turn that the number of models that was needed for an army rose as well.

Despite how mundane they were, core infantry blocks were the ballast that held your line together so you do need them and for them to be effective.

So many tears here.

Heres a shock update, outside of the circlejerk here and on warseer, the game is doing pretty well. Communities are growing without the autistic shitheads who played WHFB. Prove me wrong, you cant because its true.

>tournaments and events getting larger and higher attendence
>Large active facebook groups popping up all the time
>Major upcoming events for the game and continued releases and production

Accept it, WHFB is dead, AoS is doing well. You can make as many of these shitposts as you want it wont change facts.

What the heck is that vampire dwarf idol?

I bet you buy GW water pots too

Glad to see it dropped by major tournaments in the US and Europe

You're so triggered its amazing.

Tournaments where the winner is entirely decided by whether or not the person you played enjoyed the game.

Those three bundle armies that GW released so you could get what the tournament winners had? One of those lost every single time.

>autism

>Glad to see it dropped by major tournaments in the US and Europe
What tournaments dropped it? Adepticon has a big AoS tournament, SCGT is a major AoS tournament.

I know it might be hard for you to justify the things you pull out of your ass but at least try.

All of what you said was incorrect. Only Throne of Skulls has the "Most Fun Opponent" Shit, and thats GW's own event.

SCGT uses victory points, and secondary objectives. No, one of those did not lose every singe time.

Heres the results, just so you understand how retarded what you said was.
>heelanhammer.com/SCGTdownloads/SCGT16FinalStandings.pdf

If I wanted to play kiddie shit with forced humor, I'd join your Roll20 group. Actual humor comes about from gameplay, not measuring your fucking moustaches to find out who gets a +1.

Heres the tournament pack too
heelanhammer.com/SCGTdownloads/SCGT16TPV1.1.pdf

The US Warhammer Fantasy Masters switched to either KoW or Infinity. I suppose it isn't fair to say that they dropped it as they had the good sense to not pick up AoS in the first place.

I still can't see how anyone can take AoS seriously as a competitive game though. Even with a points values there are glaring flaws ranging from the sudden death rules to scarabs being able to burrow indefinitely.

Oh, gotcha, so just another "buy more models" thing.

Like I said I came in during 7th so my entire army was cavalry

>Greatly reduced the price of entry
This doesn't count when the method of doing so was removing any semblance of army construction
>free rules for everything
True, all 5 pages of rules were free
>focus on storytelling.
are you insane

t.AoSidf

>Decided to turn their built in fanbase into built in haters
>Release rules so broken it was amazing
>new setting utterly changed the antithetic to something that only appeals to a small group
>drop in model quality
>rise in model prices
>reduction in story telling with setting despite rules seemingly geared towards narrative play.

Basically gw told their existing fanbase to fuck off since they ruined the think that fanbase liked and decided to craft a new fanbase from the ground up with a considerably inferior product. Not strange it's regarded so poorly.

>AoS is doing well
What you do in your basement proves nothing pal.

>laughing at the colossal flop that is AoS
>pointing out a few reasons its awful
>tears

Nig please. No one is shedding a single tear. This shit is failing so hard I actually pity GW.

>tfw excpet two starters my flgs has sold no AoS products

>the game is doing pretty well
Oh the lies we spin to keep our worlds from collapsing on themselves. Tournaments do not a successful game make.

>Prove me wrong
Total War Warhammer being the fastest selling Total War game of the franchise, and the dwindling profits GW posts in its quarterly reports do a good enough job of that.

Who is this semen demon?
I don't even recognize the drawstyle to look it up by author.

I wouldn't pity them, if the nostalgia effect is hitting as hard everywhere else as I have seen happening locally, re-releasing the specialist games line (even if the games are reworked to be kinda poop as is apparently the case of the new warhammer quest?) then I can see GW making a fuckton of money off of those for minimal output.
Costs them about 5-10 times less to make all the plastic models for them now than it did back in the '90s after all and that was a major part of the expense.

That would actually require some common sense and I think it's pretty clear GW hasn't had any of that since the 90's.

Instead of solving the game problems they throw it to the trash and replaced it with a half assed set of rules and expected no one to note the difference.

They have to be including WHFB kits in that 30%. People are buying those kits more for KoW and 9th Age than for AoS.

WHFB's death has really caused a huge uptick in popularity if those two systems. And they are both the polar opposite of GW in philosophy and approach.

>focus on storytelling
You really expect me to believe that with 2nd grade tier fantasy names like Dracothian for a dragon?

Thats the AoS fan though. I visit a few different hobby/fansites, and the one constant I see in AoS supporters is juvenile stupidity.

I still can't sell my other half of my sigmar starter, Nobody wants it ;-;

I literally would not take it for free. I stopped buying from GW after they pulled the rug out from WHFB after leading people on with End Times.

I sincerely believe they are going to shrink to about half of their current size, and probably give up to a buyout. They are demonstrating they learned nothing from the mistakes they made with WHFB - because they are doing an even bigger job on 40k.

I bought it because it was £54, that's actually a really reasonable price for how much stuff you get.

GW will last for quite a while yet unless they do something even worse than AoS.

They don't have any debt and they are still making a profit even if its slowly sliding year by year in a growing industry. Long term though AoS really did not help by making the models even more expensive and causing so much bad will among the people who introduce new players.

But why would you buy it in the first place?

No matter how cheap it is, it's still garbage. I'd never buy ten pounds of rotten fruit, feces, and cat carcasses, no matter if it was £.01 or £1000

The models are pretty good and make nice proxies for other stuff.

Try Ebay as with most things
You should be able to get somewhere near MSRP with it

It's actually kind of insane how fast TW:WH has sold. I mean, it broke 500k owners on steam this weekend, and that's only seven days.

I guess it helps that the game managed to not be an absolute mess when released. I've only had to deal with one bug in the game that was a real issue.

Invocation of nehek literally doesn't work so vampires are nothing like they should be.

Everything else is okay.

Their 40k releases over the past 2 years have killed the huge playerbase that existed in Phoenix, AZ. No one here plays 40k anymore, and it used to be wildly popular. Escalation caused a huge number to quit, the other release that saw a large number stop playing was the Eldar codex.

GW is so fucking stupid. Alienating the people who market their game to newbies is suicide. They are so out of touch its unreal.

>What went wrong?
well,
>no points because the people who play tested it was close friends and knew not be a bastards to each other.
> Hero Models cost in range of 30-50 fucking dollars. not including the Fuck-Huge models
>destroyed a decent low fantasy setting for generic WoW setting.
> The Empire is reduced to Imperial Guard tire bullshit, and not the Goodly Good guys defending Humanity from the forces of Chaos.
If their is anything they did right, it was the 85 dollar start collecting sets.

I live in Phoenix and the game is fine

why do anti gw shills always lie

>me and my 4 friends play still, so the player base is still exactly as healthy!

How long have you been playing? Because 3 years ago at Imperial the place was full of 40k games on a friday night. Now you barely see anyone playing it ever, except for the tournaments.

The new place in Scottsdale has zero 40k players. Thats straight from the owners mouth.

The GW in N Scottsdale has a tiny playerbase of cancerous that guys.

And the place is Mesa shut down earlier this year.

So idk what you mean by 'the game is fine'. Compared to what it was pre 6th edition, it is literally dead here.

I don't really know how this game is going, but by personal experience, I saw people buy only old WFB models (that are now labeled AoS), in the GW store i know, then go to the FLGS nearby and buy square bases

a few neckbeard stores shutdown

Hat's Games in Tucson shutdown too (another neckbeard store)

this has no bearing on if Warhammer is dying since stores are still running tournaments and events frequently.