Horus Heresy General /hhg/

THEY BREED.
Alright Iron-Circle user which ones fucked?

Just realized that SA Russes aren't heavy.

Also that I wish about half the options for the strike squadron and assault squadron were switched.

Being able to get the short ranged demolisher cannon or even executioner cannon close through outflanking and/or 1 turn of Fast would be awesome. Giving either of those blasts +1Bs isn't that great.

Giving +1BS to the single shot anti-armor guns would be great, but those same guns have enough range that fast/outflank doesn't seem that great.

Or at least it seems that way to me.

Volkite gun is cool
>5 str 7 twin-linked shots (each)
>6 str 6 shots (hull and pintle multilaser)
>BS 4

I found it dumb the fact the had no options for sponsons, and that was because they weren't going to be able to shoot their stuff anyway due to not being heavy vehicles.

I have almost 50 beakies now. If I paint them as Iron Warriors, how badly will I be decimated by ferrumfags?

How about you give them a camo pattern instead of plain IW scheme?

I don't mind that on the strike squadron, because they can become fast and outflank, and a FA choice. Not being heavy fits the idea of a more mobile version of the Russ. Then losing sponsons fits that too.

With you on the Assault Squadron though. An extra hull point is a thing, but 40 pts more and you get a Malcador in the same slot.

If I wanted to make a 2500 point list with a Mastodon what would I put in it to make it almost work as a transport. It feels like its too expensive points wise for just being 2 spartans glued together.

we won't decimate you, that be waste of perfectly good men, instead we will, for the rest of your life, assign you to the first wave

That is an interesting prospect, but then they wouldn't fit in with the rest of my Iron Warriors. I'd rather stick to what I have for now and not diverge too much so I can play larger games with a consistent force.

It would also be an utter pain to paint consistent and good-looking camo across dozens of guys.

Considering how I'm just about the only full-on traitor in my group of like ten people that isn't anything new. I just hope the second wave gets here soon.

>but then they wouldn't fit in with the rest of my Iron Warriors
Because Iron Warriors were all about MKVI armour yeah?

I can't remember the LoW rules of the top of my head but isn't it less than 25% of your army total? Mastodons are 700 points base which requires 2800 points at least.

...

>Speculation at the time suggest that a faction amongst the Primarchs and Legion commanders, led by Perturabo, intended this assignment to an under-strength Legion to be the death-knell of the Mark VI armour, leading to its replacement by a sturdier design.

This might be the one time that making them Alpha Legion dressed up as Iron Warriors makes sense.

Yes, but Pert is a kook and beakies are the OGs.

Now that's what I call a power squat.

Use the Leviathan detachment, I think you can bring them at any size then.

I did have to cut my tracks. They look a little iffy, but I just say the WE don't have much care for vehicle maintenance anymore.

So I started reading the novels and holy shit there's a lot of them. I'm halfway through the third one and so far they're direct sequels to one another where one leads into the next with the same cast. When do the books become more self-contained?

That was decades before the Heresy. Post-Heresy, you take what you can steal to deny it to the enemy. Especially if you're not expecting reinforcement or repair anytime soon.

Not the most up to date, but useful to keeping relative track of everything. Almost every story has associated short stories or novellas that either link novels together or give background to the events involved, similar to comic book series.

Should've specified, every colored bar is a novel, every colored oval is a short story, novella, or audio, the number next to each is the publishing order and the letters were limited edition books listed in the bottom right. Blue boxes are just particular events with the legions involved on each. It also includes all of the events listed in FW books.

would anyone think "sons of horus" if I painted my Knights in a dark turquoise (P3 Coal Black) edged in a very pale, silvery gold?

thanks man

The next book (Flight of the Eisenstein - I think it's the 4th book) is only a little different. Half of it runs parallel to Galaxy in Flames, and some of the same characters are involved. It's a popular book, though personally I thought it was pretty skippable.

Fulgrim diverges more. It still has a lot of moments that run parallel to the other books by necessity, since there was a lot going on at the time. You might see a familiar character or two, but it doesn't feel like a sequel or a repeat. I really liked it.

The subsequent books are off on their own. Legion and Betrayer are self-contained. Descent of Angels is more of a Great Crusade story. A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns go together, and you should know at least the basics before reading Scars (which itself leads into Path of Heaven - the White Scars books are quite good). First Heretic is self-contained and significant. Know No Fear is good, if rushed at the end.

A lot of the other books are a little weird, with bizarre plots designed to get primarchs fighting each other and make filler books sound interesting, imo. Unless you have a particular legion in mind, the ones above are my recommendations. Plus Vengeful Spirit, maybe, and the short story anthologies.

Thanks, think I'll skip ahead to the Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns after I finish Galaxy in Flames, those guys were always my favourite legion fluffwise.

You don't know the half of it. I believe there were going to be only nine novels, but someone thought it was a good idea to create a grimdark future where there is only novels, short stories, anthologies, and novellas.

That sounds like typical GW to me though.

This was under a management that no longer exists according to the current authors. You won't see anymore gluts of individually sold short stories and all the ones that are currently out are being condensed into anthologies. The next novel after Angels of Caliban will consist of the Alpha Legion's attack on the Sol system and the Imperial Fists working to slow them.

Have we exhausted all possible ways to divine the future? How many authors must toil to scratch their visions onto hardback novels so that we might catch a glimpse of hope? Or are we to suffer only the pangs of despair as yet more horror is let loose on Black Library's online store? Or does the seeking itself give birth to more insanity than man can cope?

The Dark Future Beckons!

Fear the unknown!

In all seriousness I do feel rused here.

Does that put us near the end, then? The Siege of Terra was only 55 days (unless it gets retconned by multiplying by 10, like the number of marines each legion had).

Yes user, soon the HH series will be complete.

Then GW will have us back even further in time to the Unification Wars, with its own tabletop, books and short stories.

Mr. Bones, please no. This mild ride is too much like your wild one. Take the BLfags who're going to be disappointed when the series ends, and spare us please.

Have anyone used or faced the Land Raider Achilles? If so, how did it do in combat and as a transport? Is it a viable option, but more importantly, is it a fun option?
My plan is putting a Close combat Preator with 5 reavers with melee upgrades in it.

You can look up the notes from the last Horus Heresy Weekender yourself. After Angels of Caliban, we start The Gauntlet, where all of the traitors are in Segmentum Solar, the Alpha Legion infiltrators obviously reaching the Sol system first.

Should I get an outrider squad or just another squad of jetbikes?

Jetbikes only being 5 points more expensive a piece really makes outriders unappealing

My tin foiled mk4 helmet has gotten the better of me, user.

To be fair, the early reviews are saying Angels of Caliban isn't great. Nowhere close to the shit that was Deathfire, but typical Thorpe mediocre.

5 ppm extra for 2+ and lolterrain? I don't run either, but I'd say go for it, even though jetbikes are 45 points more expensive for the initial squad.

If they did a really dense Unification war book I'd probably buy it

>Proto imperial army/Jovian void troops
>Techno barbarians
>Spess mahreens with volkites out the ass
>thunder warriors comin in like a wrecking ball

yes please

Would anyone take this series seriously if BL pumped out Deathfire or worse quality books?

Kept on pumping out I meant to say.

I would say Kyme is the only one who consistently writes shit. Thorpe's aren't great (though the Corax novellas are pretty awesome) and McNeil's done some real shit, but Kyme is the only one that I can say that everything he's added to the series has been awful.

What's more enjoyable? SyFy original movies, or Kyme's work?

You don't like SyFy channel movies? The fuck is wrong with you!? The titles alone make them awesome!

user, I love SyFy original movies. Call me a sucker for any horror movie, or insult my taste in movies but I love those movies. I think my favorite was the Mothman movie.

I also like movies that come on Chiller. Come to think about it they made a movie about Mortarion.

you can love them, just don't try to claim they are well made.

I love me some bad horror movies. In fact I prefer them to many genres of good horror movies, but I admit they are bad.

>you can love them, just don't try to claim they are well made.
>I love me some bad horror movies. In fact I prefer them to many genres of good horror movies, but I admit they are bad
Yeah I know they're most likely made by throwing darts at animals and words like mega or zombie. It's what gets me. Also the movie was called Reeker.

What? So Giant Flamethrowers taking out the Life Eater wasn't cool?

Actually, it was longer. The Siege Started on 213.014 and ends on 757.014 (the day of the Emperor's Ascension), so 198 days, give or take.

No wonder Papa Sang was tired.

Better too long tracks than not enough tracks

...

I'm a little embarassed to say it took me until this post to realize how the fuck the Imperial calendar works.

Speaking of Mariana III I've decided to expand on it more. Not every fish is going to be psychic, and there's more than just Earth fish on there because it's not like a bunch aliens stole two of every fish on Earth and put them on the planet. The oceans are a fusion of Subnatica on acid, Fabio if Fabio was a grimdark ocean filled with grimdark things, whatever God rejected from Jesus's fish drawings, and flat out nightmares. The Sharks are just what the planet's best remembered for as the Sharks are just obnoxious idiots who scream into your minds that they're sharks and suck their dicks. Well the ones with the level of psychic power to do so.

Deeper into the oceans is when this freaky world gets freakier. The stuff down there becomes more psychic, more sentient, and more malicious minus the Dolphins. The original colonists found that out on day one. Just how malicious? As malicious as freaky psychic ocean life who enjoys feasting upon terror and death can get. Surpringly the stuff down there enjoys terrorizing the population enough that if anything from outside the planet threatens to murder every nerd on the planet they'll turn their psychic powers on them. They can't terrorize scientists if there is no scientists alive.

As for how the scientists themselves govern themselves it's a Meritocracy. What kind of Imperial Army would these guys play out as anyway?

>Repeatedly clone your dead brother to get him to join your side

>he keeps giving you the same reply

Solar Auxilia perhaps? Their Void Suits work underwater, and the FW designers themselves said they were in part based on Diving Suits.

The 760th Solar Auxilia 'Mariana Shellbacks' or something similar.

One user did say he wanted to make a SA from my world. I like that name, user. As for the who in the Imperium found it first it was a detachment of Luna Wolves who got sent there due to Warp hijinks and Magnus. They found a fleet of Eldar corsairs orbiting the planet. The Eldar shot first, and were eventually driven away. The Moon Wolves left to repair their ships, and Magnus went to bring the Emperor's light to Mariana III.

What you want to use them for.
Normal bikers can pack power weapons for more punchy. Also twin linked special weapons more reliable than not twin linked heavies.
Jetbike faster and out range, and have 2+.
Want choppy jet bikes take command squad.

In a 2000 point game as Imperial Fists, are 2 x 10 Veteran Squads fine, or do I desperately need the extra bodies and go 2 x 20 Tactical Squads instead?

As we all know, vindicators are love and vindicators are life, but how many Laser Destroyers is too many?

I'm trying to deal with tanks but I play Night Lords.

When you have more laser destroyer than Vindicator.

Hmmm.... I want to get into 30k, but I can't decide between Iron Hands, or Iron Warriors.

On one hand, Iron Warriors have one of the coolest comor schemes with their hazard stripes, and Iron Hands are one of my favorite chapters/legions alongside Imperial Fists lore-wise, but my problem with Iron Warriors is that I think it'd be hard to paint the yellow hazard striped over black, correct? And with the Iron Hands, I just don't want to paint tons of black all the time.

Though, I've heard their pre-heresy color scheme was different, and that there are color variations for all the legions in 30k, correct?

Also, how good are their legion rules?

Blood Angels or World Eaters? I love melee, tactics too.

A connoisseur of Iron I take it? Let's start with Legion rules.

Both Iron Hands and Iron Warriors have quite solid rules, but be aware that 30k tends to be more balanced than regular 40k and many players look down on autistic over-competitiveness. If you absolutely must know, however, I'd give the Iron Hands a slight edge because you really can't go wrong with inbuilt super-toughness on your infantry and vehicles.

Both Legions are quite shooty, though Hands have better tanks/dreadnoughts while Warriors have vastly superior artillery. Hands infantry is tankier, while Warriors infantry is more expendable and shootier.

Storm Walkers and Corpse Grinders had the same colour schemes as their future incarnations, unfortunately, so no respite there.

That said, you can always make a Shattered Legion force including the two Legions, or go with an Allied detachment. No need to limit yourself. Even colour-scheme wise, you can innovate so long as you justify it reasonably (ie. Mid-heresy ragtag force, early Great Crusade weirdness).

Though, I'm also thinking about World Eaters or Word Bearers, as I like their paint schemes, really.

Both have good rules, but IH are top tier. Hands have amazing models pre-heresy, and their color scheme can be modified pretty easily. Lots of the FW IH have sort of a greasy dark-grey thing going on, which is much more interesting. I would definitely encourage someone who likes Hands to start HH with them, they're very rewarding and a studio darling so they get lots of good shit

I've got some Death Guard now, but it's only two tactical squads and the HQ's from B@C. What do I add next? I want that slow, immovable force that can take hits while being able to deliver a lot of firepower. Probably use The Reaping for RoW

Alright, thanks mate! Though, I was asking about the rules because I wanted to know how useful they were, but it's good to know that they're both good. I think out of the two I'd go Iron Hands. I do have a fondness for dreadnoughts.

Good to know, thanks mate!

It's a shame about the color schemes, as if I use them in 40k, I'd rather paint a successor then the real deal, but I suppose I can get over that.

Now for my other questions:
How are the Word Bearers and World Eaters? I'm more asking this because their color schemes interest me, and I think it'd be fun painting the runes and such in the Word Bearers armor.

Also, I'm very confused on what to do with the BaC set that I want to get to start up my 30k army. One one hand, I could use it as a starting point for a full army. One the other hand, I could paint them as their respective chapters and play the game that it comes with with friends. Unless the rules are generalized, and don't account for legion rules, in which case I could use any two legions I wanted, correct?

>Word Bearers and World Eaters
Both are lower-tier, but the benefit of most armies being out of the same book means the differences are only as significant as you let them be. I've played downright mean armies of both.

Birthday is coming up. Can someone convince me that I should get a Spartan instead of a Dreadclaw? So far I see the Dreadclaw as better because a) cheaper points wise b) cheaper money wise c) less common D) I like the idea of Sigismund getting shat out of a flying anus.

just when you thought facebook memes couldn't get any worse

>I like the idea of Sigismund getting shat out of a flying anus.
Fuck spartans, this is gold

Ah, I see.

Honestly, I feel like I'm going to go with Word Bearers, as their color scheme and being able to paint the runes and inscriptions on their armor looks like it'd be fun.

Though now I have two questions.

Can I make a Word Bearers army from the Betrayal at Calth box, or would I need more units/models to build one, and would an army from it be any good?

Should I make some of the models from the BaC box Ultramarines so I'd be able to play the game? Or are they not needed for the game itself?

Honestly the BaC box is a pretty decent start, especially since WB upgrades are already mk iv so you can mix and match but still get a cohesive look. The BaC box itself isn't enough points for more than a very basic army; you could get two for more points but I feel like it has significantly diminishing returns. Cataphractii are fine, regular marines are good but very few people need 60, Contemptors are fine but the BaC one needs some work to not look retarded. I'd advise one box, plus a FW order to get some extras, as a good starter army. It's really not a big deal to have the two sides not be Ultras and Word Bearers as long as you can distinguish them.

Wonder of he's still doing it? Probably not.

He probably stopped after the 60th try.

Alright, I understand and thanks for the advice!

As for the Ultramarines vs. Word Bearers aspect of the game, that's just my autism showing, really. I'll probably end up getting a second box just to play the game, as well as supplement the Word Bearers army I'll be building up.

Huh, just found out about this.

forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Word-Bearers-Task-Force

It even comes with BaC! Though, I need to figure out how much it'd cost in US$ as well as the shipping fees.

Jetbikes should be used at range, outriders close up with power weapons. Different roles, so think about what your army needs more of. Outriders are also better for command squad upgrades.

Iron Warriors haven't really been presented as having had a different color scheme. In book 3 they get a little more variety than in their previous 40k appearances, but it's also the first time they've been looked at in this much detail. It's fundamentally the same scheme. And since the yellow is always portrayed as dull, it's easier to paint. I'd paint brown over the main coat, then yellow over that, then dulled black (dark gray) stripes over the yellow. Then a dusty drybrush.

Iron Hands are shown as very dark gunmetal instead of black... probably because they'd otherwise look just like Raven Guard rather than because they actually changed colors. Their vehicles look like they have a lot of black wash over dark metallic gray.

devil's advocate post. it'll probably cost you around $350 bucks before shipping, it would be cheaper to buy two BaC boxes and then use the leftover money to buy cooler Forge World stuff.

I'd suggest just getting one or two of the head and chest sets and spreading them out over your forces

You really don't need as many upgrade parts as they give you in that set.

>Spess mahreens with volkites out the ass
TBF this just needs a single RoW really.
>Crusade Army List as normal
>Replace all bolters with volkite chargers, bolt pistols with volkite serpentas
>No terminators
>Lose access to legion special units
Probably some other things I'm missing but that's most of it.

>Fulgrim literally has dozens of Primarch kills
I mean I guess killing an unarmed Manus is easy as far as killing primarchs go but he wins even without including the Ferrus clones. Also maybe he has hundreds of primarch kills, depends how long he spent cloning and killing Ferrus.

clones of primarchs aren't nearly as powerful as the original. they're basically just the meat without the superpowers the Emperor gave them. Abaddon killed a clone of Horus by jamming the talon in its heart

Is it legal to take Questoris Knights ad an allied detachment for a loyal Legion? I can't seem to find the rule and I like being legal.

The books have rules to it.