The Role of Women

Pretty much going with . It's often that I've got female players in the groups, many times making up the majority, and if they're all playing to their gender then they'd get pissed at me for setting up the setting as needlessly antagonistic for the campaign when they just want to go punch bears and stab bandits and such. If I feel the need to push the autism I'll just nudge them towards describing stronger characters as Brienne of Tarth rather than busty bimbo babe in armored high heels to make up whatever musculature difference there may be.

Pretty much. Take a queue from Leia or Bioshock Infinite and have the damsel able to handle themselves, though Leia is more PC than NPC.

IT HAS FANS?

I fucking love this houseplant stuff.

That said, you hit the nail on the head with
>Most rapey stuff I've come across doesn't come across like the writer thinks that's the way it should actually be.

Gor is disturbing because you feel the author genuinely views women that way.

I was once in a Sci-Fi game where the GM referenced Gor by name as a source for inspiration. I didn't know what it was at the time, but fortunately there wasn't any rapey stuff in it.

Bravo! Excellent performance!

For my part, I find that overusing the whole damsel in distress thing just gets boring.

>No player wants to go rescue someone who's just whiny deadweight.
Yeah, if a character's main personality trait is "I'm helpless and need to be saved", that doesn't make them very compelling.

>IT HAS FANS?
Obviously. There are all kinds of fetishists in this world, and that one isn't even all that esoteric.

>though Leia is more PC than NPC.

Leia started out as an NPC and then became a PC in Empire.

>IT HAS FANS?

There are entire freeform roleplay forums dedicated to this shit.

I can see a "help me please!" NPC work as a one-off quest, but if you're not gonna engage with the players and make the NPC interesting or useful then you might as well just send them after a MacGuffin.

Pretty much. For all the fantasy bullshit it's basically just dom/sub stuff which is pretty standard as far as fetishes go

The Taming of the Shrew

I've seen the houseplant stuff, but without knowing the context, I thought it was an analogy referencing things like 1984.

Now I'm just disturbed, and still have no context.

My groups are generally pretty evenly split in terms of gender, and the girl's I've played with would probably react badly to a setting where I imposed sexist bullshit on their characters for the sake of 'historical realism'. It's a fantasy game. It's a bit of fun. If I can fantasize about being a badass elf wizard, they can fantasize about being a woman who doesn't have to deal with sexist bullshit.
The only way I could see it working is if a large part of the narrative was set up to be about women overcoming sexism in an empowering way - a sort of Mulan narrative or something - but honestly that would work so much better with a female DM that I'm not sure I'd even bother running it myself.

It's actually a pretty good imitation of the Gor stuff, at least from the little I've read. Just replace the plants with women and the watering with nonconsensual sexing.

IIRC, it's an actual passage from one of the Gor books but every mention of slave girls is replaced with house plants.

When men and women are given their own choice of what jobs to take, they will almost unilaterally choose traditional roles for their genders.

All modern science points to genetics being the sole decider of our personalities, with upbringing comprising maybe 20% of who we are.

youtube.com/watch?v=E577jhf25t4

It's time to stop listening to sociologists who abandon science to coddle their own notions of how things ought to be.

I like your enthusiasm, but I'm not sure you're really selling your character. Maybe go for a less cerebral and more passionate portrayal?

Irrelevant points because adventurers are individuals and not statistics.

His points do suggest the notion that most "adventurers" would be men. Which, in most games they are, so there's not really a problem?

So the argument isn't that we should gimp female character because exceptions exist, but that we should severely limit the amount of players who can play female characters per game? That's stomping all over player choice right there for not much reason, and there's nothing that says exceptional women can't hear about each other and join up to form a party.

I gather from the thread that they're slavegirls but...do they actually have spikes? Why is he watering them? Is it actually water being poured on them?

>So the argument isn't that we should gimp female character because exceptions exist, but that we should severely limit the amount of players who can play female characters per game?

I don't think he was prescribing anything at all, actually. I know I'm not.

The spikes are just part of the plants, and are stand-ins for anatomy. Gorean slave girls do not have spikes.

"Water" just means rape.

> Sociologists
> They're the ones doing the science
This is what leftists actually believe.

Sociologists are the one that actually record societal trends. When idiots spout off misinformed shit like 'all women want to be raped,' they're misquoting sociologists; when people shill for different kinds of economic systems, they're misquoting sociologists. They're the ones doing the science, recording the changes that occur in society. Ignorant baboons.

>All modern science points to genetics being the sole decider of our personalities,

You didn't even provide a source for that, the video is not a scientific paper of any sort nor does the series even make or support your claim.

Do you know where all the data about the effects of laws on society comes from? Moreover you still haven't provided a source for your ridiculous claim.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#Scope_and_topics

>trends

Oh, those things that biblical scholars say is their evidence that the end of days is nigh?

What hard data do sociologists refer to in their delusional quaking?

Watch the video before you cast judgement if you hold pretense to reason. There are many citations therein.

Sociologists do nothing but mooch off of the productive and babble about their own fantasies. It's not a science, it's a joke.

Even if you were to accept that women were scientifically 'less likely' to become adventurers in your made up fantasy setting, the sample size of single adventuring party is so low for that to be irrelevant. Plus it makes sense that women who become adventurers are relatively likely to team up with other female adventurers, skewing the results.
Like I know you guys freak out when people throw around phrases like this, but literally the only reason for giving women mechanical disadvantages or limiting the number in a party is that you hate women. Is it because they won't have sex with you?

>Gorean slave girls do not have spikes.
How dull.

>Do you know where all the data about the effects of laws on society comes from?

Behavioral scientists. Sociology is a belief system, not a science.

The real issue here is that people always hate science when it tells them something about the world that they don't like the sound of, especially when it tells them that they are limited in who they can be.

Sorry, but that's the price of admission to reality.

>refuge in ad hominem

And you were doing so well, too.

>Oh, those things that biblical scholars say is their evidence that the end of days is nigh?

Do you even know what a trend is? Statistically, I mean.

>Watch the video before you cast judgement if you hold pretense to reason.

I've seen it before. The entire series does not claim that genetics makes up the entirety or majority of our behavior.

psychologytoday.com/blog/under-the-influence/201307/do-genes-influence-personality

it's not an ad hominem because it's tangential to the argument at most
it is, however, an insult

Stop feeding the trolls/retards, people. You're only giving them what they want.

> psychology
> evidence of anything
Nice try. Another fake "science" for leftists who want to hide from the way the world actually works.

While I don't give a shit about this sociology debate,
>especially when it tells them that they are limited in who they can be.
is horseshit. No normal, rational woman or any person for that matter is going to discount their dream job--in this case adventuring--because some study told her she's genetically predisposed to hanging out in the kitchen.

Individuals are not statistics so again, this point is irrelevant to adventurers.

Also inb4
>woman
>rational

Who let the Dark Eldar in this thread

>implying leftists don't know how the world works
>implying reading Marx, Gramsci, Said isn't the real 'red pill'

...

>psychologytoday.com/blog/under-the-influence/201307/do-genes-influence-personality

>psychology
>science

Lol, you're kidding right? Look up Positive Psychology for an example of their scientific rigor. They were fooled by a fluid dynamics equation that told them what they wanted to hear.

It's irrelevant as I don't have female PC's or NPC's in my games.

...

We have no proof Einstein ever actually said that, but the idea he predicted Veeky Forums is pretty damn funny.

if women are genetically predisposed to want to stay in the kitchen, why is it always women who argue that they should be able to do other stuff?

>Is it because they won't have sex with you?

no, it's because they are inferior in every way but beta males such as yourself white knight them despite the fact they won't have sex with you

Because they want to reap the benefits of society without actually contributing anything.

>why is it always women who argue that they should be able to do other stuff?

women argue for the sake of arguing, they don't need a reason valid or not

That is as true as saying that all men are rapist molesters.

because people hate science when it tells them no.

That's why fools persist in belief of things like FTL. They even refuge in the logic of flat earthers; "Well, nothing is impossible, so..."

Gotta exercise proper cootie control precautions, am I right user?

ok so
women want to reap the benefits of society without contributing anything
which is why they campaign to be able to work
makes sense

Women get away with it far more often. What does that say?

58 replies in a single hour. Not to mention the fact that your OP wasn't even trying to go for bait.

Ignoring the /pol/-spasm...

I actually want to explore these themes more deeply in my games, by having different cultures with different gender roles and expectations forced to interact with each other. I would not be claiming any kind of historical accuracy, because this is fantasy, but rather the fact that it is a fictional world able to include all things from real life and more. After all, don't novels deal with these themes all the time?

I intend to run a game soon, and in the geographic region it begins in women have many social disadvantages compared to men. I look forward to seeing how the players deal with it. (Place is somewhat inspired by Byzantium, so less "all women are chattel" and more "women should be kept safe at home, involved in the matters of men")

so the entirety of women's suffrage and feminist movements has been born out of a bizarre vendetta against science?
ok user

> which is why they campaign to be able to work
> implying women work
They "work." Which mainly involves sitting around preening and badmouthing people behind their backs while the few men involved do the actual work. Seriously, look at any female dominated workplace and you'll notice that they're cesspools of bickering, laziness, and incompetence.

No, they've been borne out of the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" mentality that all humans share.

It's also why people play dress up and demand recognition for it. They think all their happiness lies on the other side of the gender.

The truth is that nothing can make a person happy, other than accepting that fact.

See >That said I don't see this thread leading anywhere good.

I fucking called it.

I dunno.

But I think either sex doesnt feel guilty for the crimes of the minority. And when someone attack all women or all men, everyone gets mad because thats not the full picture.

Plus, there are crimens that women get off more easily, and there are situations when men get awat whit crimes more easily than women, just differente aproaches, but it's basically playing the same game.

Considering the people who I put up with, yes.

I also question why males want to play female PC's. "Play a dude, but with girly parts instead", which in that case I'll just cut out the middleman and say why not just play a man instead.

So you are a underage faggot that never had a job?

Yes. Science tells us that women cannot be trusted with the vote. They are simply too irrational to make the kind of determinations needed to vote intelligently. But they refused to accept that, and whined until people gave them the vote, and society has suffered because of it.

are you happy then?

>and there are situations when men get awat whit crimes more easily than women

Name a few.

Thread would have had a much better chance in the middle of the night when the American kiddies are in bed.

...

When you are content with what you have, then yes.

There is nothing more addictive than money.

Sexism.

[citation needed]

I go full traditional roles but for obvious reasons as you pointed out PC women are an exception. They do still face stigma from NPCs and other PCs from time to time but usually others react to them with curiosity or innocent novel amusement rather than outright scorn. My players tend to buddy up real quick, no matter what character they make theyalways tend to be loyal as fuck so slights against one PC are typicallytreated as a slight against all.

he said "crimes", not "natural order of things"

>I cannot think of a logical and well-refuted argument, so I'll post meme pictures instead

Adults are talking, go play outside.

Nice comeback kid. No, I've had the displeasure of having to deal with several workplaces dominated by women. The kind of pettiness and backstabbing that goes on there is ridiculous.

>playing shadowrun immediately gets you on 50% of this
nice

Depends on the setting. But that's a shitty discussion-stopper, so I'm not stopping there. Specifically, it depends on whether I'm running a pre-industrial setting or a post-industrial setting.

In a pre-industrial world, underpopulation is a dangerous thing and wombs are important, so women in general are going to be encouraged to raise children as the most valuable contribution they can make to a village. That sounds like an insult to a modern perspective but it's really not. Kids are important. A female character who isn't a mother or an ex-mother or too young to be a mother yet is going to have a reason for being an exception to the rule. Obviously, "I can kill a monster" is easily a good enough excuse, so this is more of a backstory detail than an actual in-play restriction.

In a post-industrial world, food production, wealth and military power are no longer primarily limited by population. None of the above applies. Same goes for a pre-industrial city. Cities have no shortage of people. The further forward you go, the less anyone is going to care; if you have time to care whether the street sam charging down the alley at you is a razor boy or a gillette, you should spend it shooting.

I don't tend to run sexist NPCs. I might if I could make them interesting, I suppose, but it's not really a prejudice that lends itself to stories more interesting than "hey, here's an asshole you won't feel guilty about beating up, so go nuts". Same for rape. Rapists are one step above giant vermin and one below zombies in terms of convenience as bags of free XP and loot. True in non-game fiction, too. Here's a bit of lazy cliche writing that everyone loved:

youtube.com/watch?v=LeYwkeX6xNI

I play a female characters a lot because as a writer I just prefer female characters. I could go on a lengthy psychoanalysis of myself to explain why but the simple reason is "I just like female characters".

My GM remarked I'm one of the only players he's met who doesn't make it weird, if that's worth anything.

While the Murica jab is kinda dumb, I agree the middle of the day during summer is the worst time for a thread like this.

I tend to think if Magic has existed for all of the setting's history, birth control would be a very simple cantrip, blocking sperm from fertilizing the egg.

Therefore, women have equal social rights and gender roles don't exist, but they still have to try harder to prove themselves, because they don't have the physical abilities.

So in the setting, there isn't many female fighters or barbarians, and even there is, they're DEX based. Of course, there are always outliers, so my players can be whatever they want. But the setting in general, I simply don't have them run into STR based females.

If I was (more) neurotic, I'd subtract 2 from every female's STR stat, but add 2 points to DEX, WIS, INT or CHA, divided between them. That's not worth the time investment, though, and I usually just build female characters without STR as their main stat.

That way, when I insert my fetishized 7 foot tall amazon with huge tits, it's all the more special.

Oh yeah i see a lot of poor, fat men with skinny rich women.

Oh wait no it's the opposite.

>That sounds like an insult to a modern perspective but it's really not.

proof the modern perspective is fucking degenerate

Is it necessary to say "White" in a fantasy setting that it is the theme park of medieval Europe?

The citation is his ass.
Your retarded post got the reply it deserves.
Yes, keep making it clear you never had a job.

Probably office workers am I correct? I've slso worked in female dominant workplaces and they've all been lovely with the exception of the office staff.

I'll be blunt here: I really, really don't like women. The very thought of them gives me a pit in my stomach. Ironically, or perhaps not so, that's why the role and ability of women in TTRPGs fascinates me so much:

The way gender dynamics work in my games tend to depend on whatever race they are, as well as a healthy dose of bro-science. Humans and elves generally occupy the extremes. Humans are the most "traditional" in that regard, with men being manly men and women being idealized homemakers: kind, caring, loyal, supportive, all that good stuff. Women serving in male roles (especially military ones) are considered not done, but a female human NPC would have little more obstacles in her way than incredulity and some minor ridicule ("You? Hunt goblins? Don't you have a husband you need to cook for?"). Despite the relative taboo, there have been multiple effective and celebrated human female warriors.

On the other extreme we have the elves, and this is where the bro-science kicks in. Elves have very low gender dimorphism so they tend to be very similar in terms of strength, ability, psychology and hormone levels that means elf men are quite literally low test, though still distinguishable at first glance. Humans consider male elves to be effeminate, but they're not traps (not unless they make an active effort, that is). Because of this their society, including the military, is entirely egalitarian, with men and women being equally competent. Most other races are somewhere in between elves and humans in terms of gender dimorphism and gender roles.

While I've never had the opportunity to run/create one, I really like the idea of a femme fatale BBEG. No idea how to play one without having it turn into a magical realm or downright awkward though. I guess I just like the concept but don't know how to execute it.

The chart is for all genres, not just fantasy.

>Yes, keep making it clear you never had a job.

Not that user but I work in a hospital and everything he said is true.

Why would skinny rich men date poor fat women?

The moors, shitlord.

That's just being an asshole and as far as I know is not a crime in itself in first world nations, though it can be the motive for one.

I don't think hospitals are good cross sections because nurses are not well-adjusted people. Spending all that time and money for the training just to spend 24-hour shifts sticking tubes into peoples' dick holes takes a toll on you.

>Rape survivor
>Criminal
>Vigilante
>Killing spree (humans)
>Blasé about killing
>Brooding loner
>White (considering they're in a fantasy 100 years war he's either "French" or "English")
>Writer is male
>Makes a living being violent
>No patience for politics
>psychological problems
>No skimpy armor, but is seen naked multiple times
>Underaged (at the start of the series)
>Borderline supernatural powers
>Ultra-edgy orphan whose mother gave birth to him after being hanged

Yeah, Guts sure is a female protagonist.

Using any form of seduction gets you like 4 of them, so a shadowrunning slutty orphan is like a free blackout so long as she's white

Game we're playing in, there's a lot less men because they keep getting killed, so women fill in the blanks but it doesn't confer much of a special privilege or importance. The most that reaches, is when a woman gets into a position of power she's just likely to remain that way, so like if the king and princes of a country get killed, then the country is going to switch over to a matrilineal monarchy. Since the less men thing of the setting has been going on for a long time though, most places are and have been like this for a long time as well so it's accepted and commonplace.

Only time it can take a big role in the setting is during the occasional period where there are very few men at all, so there may be a conscious effort or even laws perhaps, that men are supposed to go into protection. Depending on the culture that can be just going into hiding, or reporting to the nearest prison and spending time there for safety, stuff like that.

Kill yourself

Playing doctor is not having a job in a hospital.