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>Question
Have you ever used other pieces of fiction for your game? (not necessarily other game-lines, but non WOD movies,books,games, etc...)
Has anyone leeked the pack yet?
Buy it. It's 10$, Ave Onyx Path needs your money.
Already did, I'm just surprised no one else has leeked it yet.
It was leaked a little while ago, but the link is lost to the annals of the archive.
It's in OP's post.
Well now I feel dumb.
Huh. I didn't look, because asked about it.
Alright gang, oWoD question. I've set my players up as Shovelheads who managed to slip the leash and are now free in Los Angeles (not the official Los Angeles. Think Los Angeles itself as a Camarilla Front surrounded by a thin layer of anarchs with Sabbat waiting out in the desert for someone to get weak.) I've planted a couple of story seeds for them to pursue and they're starting to piece together that they are, in fact, vampires. One barely dodged a sunrise.
Question. Where do I go from here?
Shovelheads are those disposable vampires right? Have their sire try to rain them in.
Have gay sex with them?
It's fanfic, you don't really have any players, you might as well get your rocks off.
Sires. Plural. And shovelhead is a dirty word. The sabbat prefers the term "recruit".
That's one option. The Camarilla's scourge is already after them. They're going to need to join a faction at some point.
Just wanted to be sure I knew what I'm taking about.
You could have them run into some anarchs that to show the group just how disturbed they can become.
Some people do actually run games, you know.
...
Ignore him.
Have you ever gotten to second base with a monster?
My mage bangs a beast, so... Yeah.
Yes. Nobody fucks like an Uratha and a Thyrsus do.
>tfw Paradox will shut down OPP's license and we will only have glorious oWoD with Runequest mechanics forevermore
>Question. Where do I go from here?
To Vampire: the Requiem
I do, I've joined them from here.
he's not. just like Aspel, it's fanfic for them
most wal-marts aren't open 24 hours, and a vampire would want something only open at night
nah, once paradox sees what a flop owod is they'll shut down opp's license and start doing cofd stuff themselves
Mass embraces are done with a clear objective in mind, if they achieved that objective they should be considered "true Sabbat" and their sires would introduce them to the vampire world, the Sabbat and probably some path of illumination.
Thank you, but no.
The complication is that they went and did that objective, glutted themselves on blood and were passed out. A couple of ghouls scooped them into a van and that van was waylaid... by a vintage Charger wtih a carburetor sticking through the hood.
The four men got out, shot the drivers and said "Let's have a look at what they have in the back and OH F-"
So, they're free and loose on the streets of LA.
Where is that? I always heard that they'd be false Sabbat. Like... meeting your objective isn't necessarily grounds for the creation rites. The description is pretty vague on that point.
Then it depends on the players doesn't it? Either the Camarilla recruits them and use them against the Sabbat or the Anarchs find them or they manage to reach the Sabbat in the outskirts
I would strip search the ghouls and see
Here in page 19 of the anniversary edition
"The Sabbat — who sometimes call their hastily-Embraced
fledglings “shovelheads” due to their bizarre
Embrace rituals — are usually much more pragmatic: If
the fledgling survives and does something worthwhile,
she’s not a shovelhead anymore."
See I feel like Paradox is going to hold on to White Wolf as long and as hard as possible, even if this One World of Darkness thing goes bust. That or milk the everloving fuck out of Exalted.
Fate's new purview in 2e is:
>Blessings, hexes, probability, fortune, oaths, promises, intentions, destiny.
"Blessings" and "hexes" is fairly broad. Could basically any spell that could be construed as a "blessing" or a "hex" be accomplished under Fate?
Right from Fate 2, you can inflict hexes like:
>Arm Wrack, Blinded, Deafened, Insane, Knocked Down, Leg Wrack, Poisoned, or Sick
And beneficial Conditions such as:
>Charmed, Informed, Inspired, or Steadfast
Which means that Fate 2 alone can directly manipulate bodies and minds as long as it can be construed as a "blessing" or a "hex"...
Yes, congratulations, newfag, you're learning that all the Arcana are pretty powerful if you know what you're doing
In other news, water is wet
Almost correct, you need at 3 dots for supernatural conditions, 4 if you want them to be persistent.
Also the subject can resolve the condition as normal. So not entirely game breaking.
Does this mean that you could straight-up boost your Attributes just like Life or Mind, because that counts as a "blessing" and Fate can directly manipulate bodies and minds?
No.
Being stronger isn't a blessing, it's being stronger. You could boost any given Attribute's rolls, but not the Attribute itself.
But you're too autistic to really "get" this, Touhoufag, so I'm gonna sit back and watch the thread spiral for 8 hours trying to explain it to you.
No you can't increase the attributes.
But you can give a bonus to rolls involving those attributes, even give 9/8 again or rote action.
But its not the same as increasing the attributes them selves. It won't increase your derived traits such as health, speed, or withstand raiting.
>Being stronger isn't a blessing, it's being stronger.
But literally making someone blind, deaf, insane, poisoned, or sick is a hex.
>Increasing a Skill or Merit is typically a Ruling (••) spell. Attributes can be increased by a Perfecting (•••) spell.
Creative thaumaturgy gives you free rein to boost Attributes as long as it falls under the right purview and practice, and Fate does include "blessings"...
There is nothing wrong with Touhou.
Furthermore, if not Fate, what Arcanum would be appropriate for raising Attributes other than Life and Mind?
>Increasing a Skill or Merit is typically a Ruling (••) spell. Attributes can be increased by a Perfecting (•••) spell.
This line has to be in the book for a reason. If raising Attributes with a Perfecting (•••) spell is something only Life and Mind can do, they would have left that part out of the creative thaumaturgy section and let Honing the Form and Augment Mind stand on their own.
If anything the social attributes could be increased by fate. But I just can't see it working for the physical or mental attributes.
>This line has to be in the book for a reason.
Because you can affect more things than humans. Spirit has spirits. Death has ghosts and undead (maybe vampires, but I'm not versed on them). Mind has Goetia. Matter or Prime might affect Prometheans. Etc
The boons for Fate include conditions like Informed, Inspired, and Steadfast.
Fate magic can literally make you more informed on a subject out of nowhere, more pumped-up to do something, or more resolute.
Which can be represented by an email sent to you with the information you needed.
That is Lucky Number (also at Fate 2), not Exceptional Luck.
By Fate 4, Chaos Mastery explicitly "manipulates brain chemistry" and "manipulates the subject’s body," as if Fate was not already doing that from Fate 2 given Exceptional Luck literally making people insane or resolute within a span of three seconds.
That because that is under the purview of chance. But there is never a chance of becoming super human strong.
No, Exceptional Luck can also cover suddenly getting an email with the exact information you needed on a subject.
Lucky Number is for, specifically, you guessing the correct answer on an input device, which has nothing to do with getting an email.
Exceptional Luck can also, within a span of three seconds, spontaneously make someone go insane for a year.
This is well beyond the domain of "chance" and more into "outright manipulating bodies and minds," which Fate 4's Chaos Mastery explicitly does.
Fate cannot boost your attributes or skills. It can boost your dice pools, which effects the same change, to represent luck. It cannot make someone inherently better at doing something, though, just give them good luck when doing that thing.
It's SJW filth.
Actually Walmart has greeters because theft protection security is imposing and makes customers uncomfortable while a little old man who'll guilt you for walking out with a TV prevents theft just as well. Walmart is soul sucking because they do a creepy cultist chant at the beginning of every shift.
>2hu is SJW filth
That word really has no meaning.
You're making assumptions and drawing conclusions from things not supported in the text. "You can cause Arm Wrack" does not in any way imply "you can increase stats".
Fate now covers "blessings" and "hexes" in its purview, which is why Fate 4's Chaos Mastery "manipulates brain chemistry" and "manipulates the subject’s body," and Fate 5's Forge Destiny can spontaneously turn someone into a pyrokinetic superhero by granting them the Psychokinesis Supernatural Merit.
Fate can now go well beyond mere chance and move directly into imbuing bodies and minds with extraordinary abilities or debilitations.
Chaos Mastery is straight up not boon or hex adjacent. It's you manipulating the chaos of a situation to impose conditions on a subject.
Forge Destiny isn't affecting someone's stats, it's granting them a powerful Destiny, which comes with special abilities.
None of the Fate spells imbue minds or bodies with extraordinary abilities or debilitations directly. All of them are indirect chance-fuckery that leads to the effect happening.
You cannot, by chance, become stronger. You CAN, by chance, hit something hard enough to break it, by happening to hit a weak point or otherwise applying your strength correctly without realizing it.
It's all fate and chance.
>Forge Destiny isn't affecting someone's stats, it's granting them a powerful Destiny, which comes with special abilities.
By this logic, Fate could bless someone ("blessing" is under its purview) with the destiny of "supernaturally strong hero" and then increase their Strength that way.
>It's you manipulating the chaos of a situation to impose conditions on a subject.
"Manipulates brain chemistry" and "manipulates the subjects body" are well beyond merely the chaos of a situation. Fate could manipulate someone's body to make their muscles and adrenaline just so happen to align in such a way that they grow stronger.
If Fate can bless someone into a pyrokinetic superhero, Fate can make someone stronger.
Except there is no "Supernaturally strong hero" merit, which is explicitly what the spell lets you bestow.
So the exact wording of the spell is fucked, who gives a shit? Giving someone straight-up dots in attributes and skills is not within the purview of Fate, AT ALL.
If you want to boost your dice pools, you can do so with Fate.
Look, I'll even show you the way to do so
>Exceptional Luck
>Boon of (Potency) dice to Athletics/other skill rolls
Congratulations! You now have (Potency) extra dice for Athletics-based rolls, which is represented fluff-wise as you getting lucky.
These are the rules. The default rules. Stop trying to worm your way into saying they say you do things that they do not say you can do.
If you want to give someone attribute-dots in your game, that's fine, take it up with your ST. But by default, that is not supported, and your ST is perfectly within their right to tell you no, and kick your ass out if you act they way you have been in these threads.
>creepy cultist chant at the beginning of every shift
I need to know more about this, user. I am very interested.
Wendy'sfag here, and for a while they were trying to push this thing where at the beginning of every shift the whole crew and manager had to get in a huddle and discuss their goals of the day, then put their hands in the middle and yell "1 2 3 MY WENDY'S!"
Dunno whatever happened to that movement but it never really caught on at our store.
No, it can't. Please stop arguing about this. If you are Adslahnit, nothing has changed and you still have the hardest time understanding that RAI and RAW are not the same, and that using "ain't no rule says dogs can't play" logic does not actually work. Fate's purview is not increasing physical strength, and it doesn't really manipulate the body directly the way that Life does. Chaos Mastery means causing a blood clot to form, or making someone trip and snap their leg, or any number of Fate related methods of creating those conditions or situations. Forge Destiny is manipulating the strands of Fate to create a Chosen Hero. Using a pop culture example, it's unlocking the X-Gene in someone to turn them into a mutant.
You know what, how about this. This is the ultimate answer to every "but I can do this game breaking thing" question:
>Ask your ST
There is absolutely no reason to weasel around and try to argue that Fate should allow you to do something it doesn't. Especially since in 2e it is explicitly true that Magic is all about manipulating the Supernal symbols that underly reality. "Boosting someone's attribute" is not one of Fate's Supernal symbols.
reddit.com
>Y'all motherfuckers need a union
Your a fate supernal symbol
>Giving someone straight-up dots in attributes and skills is not within the purview of Fate, AT ALL.
The purview of fate is "Blessings, hexes, probability, fortune, oaths, promises, intentions, destiny." Note the first two.
Within a span of three seconds, Fate 2's Exceptional Luck can spontaneously turn someone insane for a year.
Within a span of three seconds, Fate 4's Chaos Mastery can "manipulate brain chemistry" and "manipulate the subject's body" across multiple subjects in an entire room, without even spending Reach.
Within a span of three seconds, Fate 5's Forge Destiny can give someone Supernatural Merits, turning them into a biokinetic/psychokinetic/telekinetic superhero.
The creative thaumaturgy rules allow a Perfecting spell (3 dots) to directly raise Attributes.
All of the above should allow Fate to operate under its purview of "blessings" to directly raise attributes with a Fate 3 spell, by way of blessing and manipulation brain chemistry and subject's bodies.
Stop trying to rules lawyer this. The book even spells out what a Blessing and a Hex is. They give bonuses to rolls, not stats.
I should have followed example and left you alone. By the way these are the Boons.
>Chaos Mastery means causing a blood clot to form, or making someone trip and snap their leg, or any number of Fate related methods of creating those conditions or situations.
These are two options under Chaos Mastery:
>>• The mage manipulates brain chemistry to cause hallucinations or produce emotional responses, imposing suitable Conditions such as Swooning, Guilty, or Broken.
>• The mage manipulates the subject’s body to create complex medical conditions, causing appropriate Conditions such as Addicted, Disabled, or Blind.
You are telling me that, by chance, someone's brain and body chemistry could, within a span of three seconds, just so happen to align in such a way to make them spontaneously broken inside for a non-negligible duration, or paralyze them for a non-negligible duration.
Why are the brain and body allowed to mutate in such absurdly unlikely negative fashions, but not allowed to mutate in such a way as to bolster a body's muscles or nerves, or a brain's cognitive abilities?
>Forge Destiny is manipulating the strands of Fate to create a Chosen Hero. Using a pop culture example, it's unlocking the X-Gene in someone to turn them into a mutant.
You are also telling me that the strands of Fate can be woven to create a pyrokinetic/electrokinetic/cryokinetic superhero (or even a superhero who shifts around their body's properties with biokinesis) within a span of three seconds, but not a super-strong or super-intelligent superhero. Why is this the case?
Fate can grant blessings and hexes, but it can bless people in ways other than granting one of the listed boons (exactly what Forge Destiny does), and it can hex people in ways outside of the listed hexes (Chaos Mastery goes well outside of the realm of the listed hexes).
Except NONE of the example Fate spells affect Attributes at all, and Boons(which are probably what it means by Blessings, since Hexes are listed there but Boons aren't) DOESN'T mention attributes.
Within a span of 3 seconds, Life 5's Create Life can create a new Lifeform ex nihilo.
That doesn't mean you can use lesser dot ratings in Life to give someone telekinesis, because such a thing doesn't actually fit in Life's purview.
Saying "Within a span of three seconds" means absolutely jack shit, so stop saying it.
Also, you're straight up wrong. Exceptional Luck only lasts 1 turn, unless you spend Reach, and at Fate 2, you're either spending that Reach on "Within a span of three seconds" or "for more than 1 turn", unless you wanna risk Paradox.
Stop being such an autistic faggot. Take it up with your ST, or burn the fucking book, because you aren't going to get anybody telling you "Yes, you're right user, you can ignore these rules and misinterpret these ones in order to do this thing" anywhere on Veeky Forums
>You are telling me that, by chance, someone's brain and body chemistry could, within a span of three seconds, just so happen to align in such a way to make them spontaneously broken inside for a non-negligible duration, or paralyze them for a non-negligible duration.
Yes. Now stop asking questions.
>Fate can grant blessings and hexes, but it can bless people in ways other than granting one of the listed boons (exactly what Forge Destiny does), and it can hex people in ways outside of the listed hexes (Chaos Mastery goes well outside of the realm of the listed hexes).
holy shit are you retarded?
nevermind the answer is obviously yes
Chaos Mastery and Forge Destiny aren't Hexes and Boons. The spells that ARE are explicitly called out as such in the descriptions.
>Exceptional Luck
>Pariah
That's it. Those are the Boon and Hex-based spells. The others are using entirely different systems to affect people by fucking with chance.
>Why is this the case?
It's the case because making someone Super Strong is something you do with Life, directly(+dots in physical attributes) or Forces, indirectly(+dice on specific attribute-based rolls by weaving/fraying the forces that act on them or whatever they're affecting. Making someone Super Smart is something you do with Mind.
Fate? Fate makes you lucky or unlucky. That's it.
Now SHUT THE FUCK UP.
>That doesn't mean you can use lesser dot ratings in Life to give someone telekinesis, because such a thing doesn't actually fit in Life's purview.
If Fate is anything to go by, you could probably grant the Telekinesis Merit at Life 5 under the "evolution" and "metamorphosis" parts of its purview.
>Saying "Within a span of three seconds" means absolutely jack shit, so stop saying it.
It means that these are no chance occurrences that take periods of time to set into motion. They are very much instantaneous shifts in bodies and minds.
>Also, you're straight up wrong. Exceptional Luck only lasts 1 turn, unless you spend Reach, and at Fate 2, you're either spending that Reach on "Within a span of three seconds" or "for more than 1 turn", unless you wanna risk Paradox.
With a Rote for Exceptional Luck (a very good idea given how versatile it is), you have four free Reaches. Spend one on instant action casting, another for sensory range, another on Advanced Duration, and another on whatever you want.
Since your dice pool is likely to be very high if you have a Rote (pick your highest Skill and make that your universal Rote Skill, even better if you have it under your Order's specialties), you can take penalties to increase the duration.
Placing a hex on someone for a year with Exceptional Luck is risky and superfluous (better to simply try to increase Potency to get past Withstand, or leave the dice pool untouched to blow past Withstand with an exceptional success), but it is certainly possible.
By chance my mother went from a living person to a dying in a few seconds. All because of a blood clot. So yes I fucking expect you to accept that. Sudden chages can change your whole life.
Was your mom hot?
Did she die? I really hope she's a rotting sack of flesh in the ground now. Stop avoiding his fucking argument because you can't counter it.
Because when things fall apart, they typically do not put themselves back together.
That is easy to rationalize.
Someone spontaneously become insane (but only for a while!) or a psychokinetic or biokinetic superhero (again, only for a while) is much harder to justify as pure "chance."
People have repeatedly been countering it. You're clearly not the person arguing (that'd be Adslahnit or some Touhoufag wannabe), so why do you even care?
>That's it. Those are the Boon and Hex-based spells. The others are using entirely different systems to affect people by fucking with chance.
I disagree. But I still think this argument is stupid anyway and "you can give someone a blood clot so you can also give them super strength" is pretty fucking stupid and an argument that would never fly.
Not harder in a Chronicle of Darkness.
Again, your X-gene activates.
>Because when things fall apart, they typically do not put themselves back together.
Except that they do, in the case of Fate's spells with a duration other than Lasting.
With Fate 2's Exceptional Luck, you can render someone spontaneously insane for a temporary duration, at which point the hex on them wears off.
That is not chance. That is directly manipulating bodies and minds to instigate a "blessing" or a "hex," which is exactly under Fate's purview.
No, you little faggots have been avoiding the argument, and shitting yourself in rage when he dares to continue. Go stroke out and join your fucking mother.
It is manipulating them through the manipulation of chance. Why are you even arguing about this? Have you even had a stable group since you and Luna broke up? I thought you stopped bothering with WoD and moved on to Pathfinder because that was a system that supported your gamebreaking rules lawyering. I also thought you moved from Touhou to catboys and mermaid shotas.
>"you can give someone a blood clot so you can also give them super strength"
If you can manipulate someone's brain chemistry to make them insane, you can manipulate their brain chemistry to make them smarter.
If you can manipulate the chemicals in their body to literally paralyze someone (which Chaos Mastery allows you to do), you can manipulate the adrenaline in someone's body to make them stronger, and regulate themselves in such a fashion as to be safe for the body.
>Not harder in a Chronicle of Darkness.
>Again, your X-gene activates.
If you can make someone a superhero who literally manipulates the properties of their body using Biokinesis, you can make someone a stupendously strong or smart superhero as well.
My preferred systems nowadays are Strike! (mostly for its combat; its noncombat side is a mess), D&D 4e, 13th Age, Fate, PbtA games other than Dungeon World, and Legends of the Wulin, all of which should be house ruled to refine their many rough edges.
Touhoufag wins
>you can manipulate their brain chemistry to make them smarter.
No you can't. That's not how it works. If it was, it would say that.
>You play Apocalypse World
Why. There's barely any rules for you to break.
But you know what, that's a good time for a segue. I want to ask the thread about Monsterhearts and if anyone's ever played it. It's tangential to WoD, and uses the Powered by the Apocalypse Engine. It's a game about teenage monsters fucking each other with "totally no strings attached" sex that has tons of strings attached and everyone is sleeping with and backstabbing each other.
They are already in shit country as shovelheads as it is. The ST doesn't need to put the players in shit also. :^)
How much of this thread is Aspel?
I'm Aspel
Hilarious
5 more hours
I like how the reveal of Aspel ended touhoufags responses.
Not even tohoufag wants to deal with him.
That's not actually Aspel, and Touhoufag knows Aspel is the only one who calls him Adslahnit, so he kept going regardless.
So if the guy who calling himself Aspel is not Aspel, then who is Aspel?
Is it you?
Nice try, Aspel.
Yes. But also you.
We are all Aspel.
We are Legion.
Not Aspel.
Okay but seriously, how come Fate can give a mortal pyrokinesis?
With Time 4, a mage can cast Present as Past, spend 1 Mana, use a Reach for instant action casting, shake someone's hand, and then instantly remove Potency (minimum 4, or even 5 or 6 if the mage takes a -2 or -4 penalty) in Doors to Socially maneuver against the target.
This is not mind control, emotional control, or doing anything overtly supernatural. There is no Withstand against this. This is simply saying exactly the right thing at exactly the right time.
Is this correct? If so, then Time mages must be excellent non-mind-control-based social engineers.
It also seems that Time 4 and Space 2 are enough to teleport someone across the world using Temporal Stutter. Space 4 is unneeded.
Time mages hardly have just Temporal Sympathy, Choose the Thread, and Temporal Summoning up their sleeves.
>and then instantly remove Potency in Doors to Socially maneuver against the target.
>There is no Withstand against this.
errr...
>Present as Past (Time ••••)
>Practice: Patterning
>Primary Factor: Potency
>Cost: 1 Mana
>Suggested Rote Skills: Empathy, Investigation, Streetwise
>Weaving between the many immediate potential futures, the mage can read the immediate futures of her subjects and react accordingly to thwart (or aid) their plans. In combat, while this spell is in effect, the player can require that every character affected by the spell declare his or her action at the start of every turn. The player need not declare her own action, but instead can choose to act freely at any point within the Initiative order. This trumps all other supernatural Initiative effects save for those created by the Time Arcanum, which requires a Clash of Wills.
>In Social situations, the mage adds Doors equal to Potency when the target of Social maneuvering by her subject, or removes them from a subject she is maneuvering against.
There is no Withstanding Present as Past. At least Temporal Summoning (and anything that uses Temporal Sympathy in general) has to break through a Withstand rating.
If a mage with Time 4 wishes to persuade you to do something, they will convince you without having to supernaturally touch your mind.
>Time is better at Mind than Mind
Well I hope that's an errata fix
>mfw I just pictures a Mastigos saying "It's time to show Time what time it is."
It is very convenient for a mage with Time 4 and Space 2 to be able to learn of someone having done something bad, travel back in time with Shifting Sands and a Reach, teleport across the world with Temporal Stutter, "mundanely" convince the subject against undertaking the act in question, and then reflexively dismiss Shifting Sands to snap back to the present.
That's not better than Mind.
You do understand that's basically watching yourself get the answer in the future and then doing it in the present, right?
You really do not have a grasp on how the game works, and you keep making assumptions about things based solely on what mechanically is happening without any regard to the actual context. This kind of behavior and a failure to understand other human beings is why you end up constantly coming on Veeky Forums to ask if you somehow fucked something up in the most recent Roll20 game you were kicked from, only to have everyone unanimously tell you that, yes, you did.
>And smells bit weird.
Vampire!
There is plenty wrong with Touhou. Namely that the mechanics just cannot fucking support the narrative.
Prophesy also removes doors equal to potency for a reach, for similar reasons.