Why the fuck did Wizards decide to make this cancerous, fetish-tier meme race one of the core races in D&D

>Where did they even come from?

>He's never heard of the Path of the Dragon

It's okay, user. If you work hard enough and believe with all of your heart, someday you too will become a dragon.

Because autists want to play their Argonian OC donutsteels

and children want to be Extreme Dinosaurs.

Because it's a new edition, and new editions add things that are retconned back through time in perpetuity. How did the Ancients and Paladins of them become a thing in 5E? How did Warlocks become a thing in the middle of 3E? How did Sorcerers and 9th level Cleric spells become a thing in 3E? How did Bards who didn't spend years as thieves, fighters, and druids become a thing in 2E? How did nonhumans with character classes become a thing in 1E?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play as Extreme dinosaurs.
youtube.com/watch?v=SqgJ6wzSW8k

Those things are fairly easy to explain and integrate into existing campaigns.

Dragonborn imply that a new race with its own culture and civisation just suddenly appeared out of nowhere. It's fucking nonsense.

They could have just used lizardmen if they were going for a monstrous player race. Every setting has lizardmen.

It actually took quite a while until they gave in to requests from players. Remember the Dragon Disciple? It was the attempt to enable dragon-ish characters without going overboard.
Sadly, enough players still wished for more, so they finally gave in and delivered. In the end, they just cater to people who buy their products, nothing wrong with that per se.

Excluding dragonborn from your game is, on the other hand, a totally reasonable countermeasurement.

-They are/were in faerun since 4e (not sure after the sundering)
- Explaining their existence isn't really that hard, I mean how do you explain elves, dwarves, halflings, lizardmen or basically anything else.
- If you don't want to include them don't, that's your call as a DM.

Take it back to Deviantart, manchild.

I'm playing D&D, not Freeform RP for Autism Awareness.

I think the problem is that you have Aspergers. Because you can't let the "they just suddenly appeared out of nowhere" explanation go, when it's so clearly not a thing. So I guess they made them a core race because they don't have Aspergers.

>how do you explain elves, dwarves, halflings, lizardmen or basically anything else

As I said, those races have histories and lore dating back centuries.

Dragonborn are a meme race that only exist because of 12 year olds who think dragons are cool.

Your bitter, faggoty grognard tears are delicious.

You do realise that they came up with reasons for why dragonborn showed up in existing setting like Forgotten Realms?

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn
>Dragonborn (also known as Vayemniri[2], or "The Ash-Marked Ones" in Draconic) are a race of draconic creatures native to Abeir, Toril's long sundered twin. During the Spellplague the dragonborn nation of Tymanchebar was placed where Unther had once been, creating the nation of Tymanther, where most dragonborn of Faerûn dwell to this day. Dragonborn have a strong hatred of dragons, who enslaved them on Abeir.[3]

And, though this may shock you, some people actually made settings of their own, who explain the existence of one system for the same reason every other race exists- because.

>Does Hasbro own a dragon dildo company or something?
Don't know if they actually own a dragon dildo company, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have money in a company that makes them.

Wow that's even lazier than I thought.

They must have been high on crack when they wrote that.

How were dragonborn created? Did a dragon rape a human? Or vice versa like in neckbeard fantasies?

The same reason your mom gives you tendies still. She knows you won't stop asking so might as well make them to silence your bitching.

>D&D races
>dating back centuries
At best they date back to 1954.

My mom brings me tendies because she loves me you cuck!

Because in a game called Dungeons & Dragons, it took decades for you to actually play a dragon.

6th edition will let you play as dungeons, hopefully.

I meant in terms of established lore within settings like Greyhawk, Eberron, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms, etc...

If you read the history of the forgotten realms, not one mention is made of "dragonborn" yet now all of a sudden they're a core race that exist in every major settlment across Faerun?

It's complete bullshit.

Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Eberron, and Dark Sun all have lizard-men of some variety, which may as well be dragonborn for all the difference it makes.

If you're going to whine about how dragonborn aren't lizard-men and vice-versa, you're arguing over semantics in a game of fantasy elf murder-hobos and that's really goddamn silly.

Don't ban tieflings or dragonborn from your campaign. Instead, leave them as bait, and ban players who try to play them.

Shouldn't you be on >>/co/ sperging about how Captain America is now Hitler? You're showing the same level of intelligence as those people.

They updated some settings to include dragonborn. Greyhawk is not one of them, and I don't think Dragonlance got official dragonborn stuff, just an article in Dragon Magazine. The other setting have reasons why dragonborn are now there. If you don't like those reasons, you can play using the old books. Of course, you neither know nor care about those reasons, because you can't be bothered to read.

You won't read, you won't play using the old books, you don't play at all, you prefer making bait threads. Have fun wasting your life, faggot.

Dragonborn also have established lore within the settings dating back centuries. It's just that these centuries of lore only started existing when 4E was published instead of when 1E was published. But in setting, they always existed.

Autists shouldn't be allowed to play roleplaying games, OP. Please purge yourself.

>dating back centuries

You forgot your ellipses, faggotor.

>Nothing from my precious childhood should be changed in any way whatsoever
>Get your grubby hands out of muh setting REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You're adorable.

lomion.de/cmm/dray.php

>because of 12 year olds who think dragons are cool
Who is the potential customer!

Dragonborns used to be turbo-retarded but now they are okay, especially as depicted in 5e.
Tieflings remain extra-edgy tho.

I'm curious, I didn't think there was really anything different about 5e dragonborn, so what changed your mind about them?

Really, though? How many 12 year old kids do you think buy D&D over a video game? How much does WotC invest in marketing towards getting kids into D&D?

I see far more of the older crowd buying into it. Especially in the case of 5e, an entire line of which panders hard to the aging crowd of grognards.

When I started a campaign I basically forbid dragonborn outside of crazy circumstances involving weird magicks and such

Dragonborn are pretty dumb

I'll be honest, 80% of my disdain (I didn't used to HATE them) was because of their depictions in either art or short stories. 4e art and style of play didn't help, I used to view them as "your regular player, but with edgy appearance and natural armor!".

Now it is more mature. The PHB dragonborn looks more like a a shaman from another civilization, which would be expected from such a different species. They also look less draconic and more reptilian. To me it's like the art style went from JJBA Phantom Blood to a realistic one.

Most of the 5e dragonborn art is reused from 4e.

>defending dragonborn

Fuck off you retarded cucks.

Retards like you are ruining the game.

>b-bb-bbut they're just lizardmen

No they aren't you fucking retards. They're fetishbait for autists. That's it. They have no place in D&D and anyone who plays a dragonborn or defends this shitty nonsensical design needs to be fucking GASSED.

Humanoid dragons? Really? What's next? Fucking ponies?

I just want to play a character who can spit lightning. Is that too much to ask?

Epic trolling m8.

Play a fucking sorcerer then.

You could say that about any non-human race. Dwarves appeal to MRAs that still think women have cooties, elves appeal to faggots of every possible flavor of degeneracy (which probably explains why there's so many subraces despite them allegedly being a "dying race" in many settings), halflings and gnomes appeal to lolsorandomsmokeweederryday inbreds, goblins appeal to shortstack-sucking degenerates, etc.

Honestly, playing as anything aside from a human, energy being, or sexless automaton is the only way to avoid the AIDS.

Yes it is.

This is D&D not FurryQuest.

Kindly leave and take your degenerate fetishes with you.

I'm honestly considering just making humans the only playable race in my next campaign.

Creating fantasy cultures is hard enough without having to create dozens of nonhuman cultures on top of the already diverse human population.

That said, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and orcs are mainstays of D&D and fantasy in general.

Dragoncucks and Tieflings are just furrybait.

>Why the fuck did Wizards decide to make this cancerous, fetish-tier meme race one of the core races in D&D.

Because the game is called Dungeons and DRAGONS and every edition has had a dozen+ races, classes, prestige classes, and templates that allowed you to become a dragon person with various levels of shittyness and balance.

4e just said, "Fucck it. Here's a dragon person option" right off the bat.

And it's way less cancerous/fetishy than the 3e Dragonborn, where you became one by being a dragon fanboy who is really a dragon iin spirit and crawling into an egg in order to be reborn so your exterior matches your interior identity.

>>How am I supposed to even explain their existence in Faerun or any setting that existed before 4e?

Just use the stats for Dragonborn to stand in for any dragon people (and Faerun has lots of dragon people races), but in Faerun, they're called "ABC" and come from "XYZ".

The same way you do for all the other races that get crammed into th setting from PHBs and MMs.

>>Fuck that. I don't care if they're in the PHB, you're not playing a fucking dragonborn in my game.

Then don't. I ran plenty of 4e games that featured only Humans, Goliaths, Shifters, Genasi, and Tieflings as playable characters.

>Goliaths, Shifters, Genasi, and Tieflings
It's not healthy to be in denial about AIDS.

They were just half-giants, beastmen, half-elementals, and half-fiends. They were largely considered degenerates, though.

>every edition has had a dozen+ races, classes, prestige classes, and templates that allowed you to become a dragon person with various levels of shittyness and balance.
>every edition

>B-but it's only half-AIDS!

Don't you people fucking tell me that you don't think the occasional half dragon isn't the coolest shit.

While 1e and 2e didn't have prestige classes and templates, they had their ways of getting dragon people in there with races and classes and kits and whatever other options were available.

Dragonfolk can be found in all editions of D&D- which is already a schizo "toss anything in" bunch of rules anyway.

The supplement treadmill has been around since the creation of D&D. This isn't something 3e invented--hell, 2e had over 600 published books over the course of its lifetime, and you can damn well bet there's a half-dozen ways to play a dragon-man in that edition alone.

Grogs and purists don't, because they lack imagination and a sense of fun.

However, they're not in OD&D or the Basic line. That's a whole five editions.

So answer me this: why did you ban my human fighter, even when you specifically said that's what you wanted?

>Where did they even come from? How am I supposed to even explain their existence in Faerun or any setting that existed before 4e?
Half-dragons are a thing, you know.

Yeah, lack of imagination alright
>I can't figure out what to do with scaley dragon race
I dunno, stop being a fucking retard?

>implying anybody here actually played that shit and didn't just start in 2e and act like they did.

OD&D had laser rifles and space ships, and I see plenty of people raging against anything "sci-fi" included in D&D. It's borne from a lack of understanding and a stringent mind-set on what is and isn't D&D and/or fantasy.

People will fight against anything they don't like being included in their fantasy elf games and claim it's ruining the whole thing. It's dumb and silly. If people want to play a dragon-man, go ahead. If they want to play a half-giant wielding a laser pistol, fuckin' let'em.

We're at the table to have fun, not try and figure out what is True D&D or whatever scented farts the OSR crowd is smelling today.

I've gone through my AD&D race database, and I've found:
Dracon (brontosaurus-taur thing with a draconic head)
22 different species of actual dragon
Sesk Draconians
9 different types of half-dragon
Pterrans (pteranodon-men)

That's all 2e. No 1e products on that list.

There might be some sort of other draconic race with a strange name that I can't ID off a list.

D&D--and in a more broad sense, fantasy RPGs in general--has a really hard time breaking out of the generic medieval-esque fantasy trope. Trying to get people out of their comfort zone and explore new ideas, races, and even games is like pulling teeth sometimes. Once they get an idea of how fantasy should be (or As Gygax Intended), a lot of players will stubbornly refuse to budge from it and will bemoan anything that isn't in the PHB they owned when they were 12.

This whole thread is basically a microcosm of that effect. Some people really really REALLY don't like dragonborn, despite long-standing examples of dragon-people being around in D&D for decades. They quite literally cannot imagine a dragon-man in their games of Dungeons and fucking Dragons.

>There might be some sort of other draconic race with a strange name that I can't ID off a list.

While I can't recall if there's ever been a published set of PC stats in 1e (I know that edition probably the least), I'm willing to bet that there's some sort of dragon-man NPC in one of the many published adventures during that time. 1e had some wild shit in it, after all.

And dragonborn make a hell of a lot more sense than tiny scaley migets that build caves.
I fell for the bait.

>I literally cannot add to this conversation

>Why the fuck did Wizards decide to make this cancerous, fetish-tier meme race one of the core races in D&D.
>Does Hasbro own a dragon dildo company or something?
Absolutely everyone has been making D&D clones since the very earliest days. Wizards clearly wants something to stand out more than just name recognition. "You can play a dragon in Dungeons & Dragons" was there idea of giving players something they didn't have elsewhere.

>Same goes for tieflings.
This was for the edgy tryhards.

Yeah, like shit man, people are totally fine with kobolds but the second you want to play a man-sized dragon-person they will flip their shit.

>using published settings and not just making your own
why do you even play RPGs?

Tieflings are cancer
>lol imma demun but i might not be evil so don't judge me cis scum!

this is my pc

>Fuck that. I don't care if they're in the PHB, you're not playing a fucking dragonborn in my game.
>Same goes for tieflings.

I don't blame you one bit.

Dragonborn were made for players who decided that elves weren't Mary Sue enough anymore.

Just like Tieflings were made for people who decided that Drow weren't edgy enough anymore.

...

They should have just made Kobolds the only dragon-people race and left it at that.

I agree that what 4e did to the lore was stupid. People always get caught up in the mechanics when complaining about 4e, but what it did to the setting was bad and overall unnecessary.

Fuck yeah.

Which setting are you talking about? Because if its Faerun, that world has major changes every like 10 years.

That's a shame, in 4e both are really nice for optimization

I don't particularly care about the fluff of either, but a dragon sorcerer that isn't a dragonborn is going to suck, and every int/cha class pretty much requires being a tiefling just for the imperious majesty feat

Are you just retarded or do you not actually know what the fuck a tiefling is?

Because they sure as shit aren't demons. They like 1/3rd fiend at most, and most are born from human parents with no immediate fiendish ancestry. And I say fiend because they can be descended from asuras, divs, devils, daemons, demons, demodands, kytons, oni, qlippoths/obyrith, and rakshasas. And as people who are only a small amount of evil outsider, they only have a slightly higher inclination to evil than other humans.

So yes, the LG paladin tiefling is a perfectly fine character to play, a being whose ancestry is filled with evil and by their actions and inner struggle they seek to atone and redeem their bloodline.

>Have you ever noticed how some great cosmic change occurs about every 10 years? Sometimes 6?

2008 called; go fuck yourself

> how am I supposed to explain their existance outside of 4e-onward settings?
Tell your players up-front what settings do and do not exist in the world of the game/splat/module you're running and there should be no problems.

>How am I supposed to even explain their existence in Faerun or any setting that existed before 4e?

Drakes from 2E Dark Sun
Pre-Dragonborn from 2E Dragonlance

Also, why would anyone care if you can't "explain their existence" in a pre-4E setting? Are you an established fantasy writer with a wide breadth of canon fiction to mind, or are you just a whiny nerd who doesn't even have a group?

>cucks
>misspelled greentext
>autists
>don't forget about MLP

Somebody call the Russians, because this user just went full-on MAD

Sorry, OP. I guess I'll just play another fucking human again.

How were dwarves created?
How were elves created?
It's a fantasy world that you make the rules up with your mind.
You can just say "I don't want dragonborn in my setting" and bam, dragonborn aren't there.

A large portion of why dragonborn are a core race is because WotC wanted to add a new core race, and Skyrim was popular at the time 4e came out.
Them removing dragonborn from core after that would be like removing Warforged from Eberron, they're part of the core now and they ain't going anywhere.

>I've gone through my AD&D race database, and I've found:
>Dracon (brontosaurus-taur thing with a draconic head)
>22 different species of actual dragon
>Sesk Draconians
>9 different types of half-dragon
>Pterrans (pteranodon-men)
>That's all 2e. No 1e products on that list.
Don't forget about the Saurials from Forgotten Realms. There are four different types (flyers, stegomen, triceranerds, and one more I think). They're a playable PC race in 2E.

Potato russian arrived. What do with this cyka?

Saurians are lizardmen, not dragonmen.

If the fact that they added a new core race is enough to throw a fit over "fucked up lore", I highly suggest avoiding the raven queen's personal undead servant race

I like to use dragonborn as an engineered race to keep a dragon's human subjects in line, or have them form the bulk of a dragon-led civilization.

Dragons already have so much going for them in terms of rulership, why not ACTUALLY make them rulers?

>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You should really consider killing yourself.

>How am I supposed to even explain their existence in Faerun or any setting that existed before 4e?

How do you explain Warforged in Greyhawk, or Drizzt in Hollow World?

Answer: You don't have to use them in worlds where they don't exist

>How am I supposed to even explain their existence in Faerun or any setting that existed before 4e?

>Game where literal gods exist and muck around in mortal affairs all the fucking time
>Game where most settings are full of ancient, long-dead civilizations with way better magic than any current civilization.
>Game where it is fully within the power of some wizards to create their own new species and civilizations.
>Game where every single dragon above a certain age is more or less guaranteed to be a powerful wizard.

>He's too much of a retard to figure out where dragonborn could come from.

>Playing as dungeons
Warforged already exist.

>what 4e did to the lore
You know that 4e's setting is Points of Light, which was a new setting created for the edition, right? And that each D&D setting has vastly different lore, and even run on different "rules", right? And some of them don't even take place in the same -universe-, right?

Because Dragons is right there in the name of the game.

>And that each D&D setting has vastly different lore, and even run on different "rules", right?
>and even run on different "rules"

Rules as in the fundamental concepts of the universe at large, I'm sorry I dumbed it down too much but I'm not used to talking at americans.