Warmachine/Hordes General - Soles' Terrible Haircut Edition

They've always been like that

You must be new to the Internet.

Cygnar is only rare while Trollbloods are legendary rarity. Not worth it imo, toss in some new unit spoilers and maybe it's a fair trade

I need Trollbloods too

Their new artillery piece is weird.

Yeah, for 6 points I can't possibly think of when I'd want to bring this thing. Once again, I have no idea what PP introduced this thing for. Was it really working well in their internal meta?

>250x161
>poster
More like a scale mural lads

It just doesn't really bring much to Trollbloods. Other armies that could use the extra long range blasts, I could see a niche use, but Trolls have plenty already.

Yeah, people were so much more cooperative in the old MUD days

Has anyone started dojo'ing lists for mkiii?

The internet loves to over-react. The doom and gloom will clear up and it'll be back to complaining online while people ignore it and play the game with their groups.

Will post trolls when I get home from work in ~20 in exchange for anime titties

...

I'm not talking about Warmachine emos, the entire state of the Internet is fucked. Can't always be rolling dice you know?

I managed to grab all the cards, but is there some I can share without getting into trouble?

Anyway. I did some calculations (Aka some basic stuff on Anydice) and figured out why Weaponmaster is so strong.

Because it ISN'T just a flat +3.5. Because the way that dice probability works, when you roll dice, your probability of doing higher then average damage also increases.

>Has anyone started dojo'ing lists for mkiii?
yeah for a couple factions. though nothing is really gelling for me for cryx beyond denny1 gunline. legion and coc are going ok

I have - unfortunately I'm met with some doom and gloom. One of my staple lists is now gone and is impossible to present in its original form in the new edition. I've got variations playable, it just isn't the same.

I've also done some minor dojo with my second faction but haven't quite been inspired enough for a list yet.

pretty much everything has been leaked everywhere now, so they can't exactly go after the initial one or two leakers because it's proliferated

No eSkarre def 20 kraken?

Whats the way I do it... I haven't mass shared things before. Megashare or something?

Should I make a new account to share it?

Trying to Dojo ECaine but armor is killing him.

I've been considering running 2 Centurions on him with min Trenchers + Busters and then Jakes + Gallant + Lanyssa but it just doesn't feel right.

Use something disposable if you're afraid of it coming back to you, I guess.
Any site will do.
If you;ve got cygnar, we'd be very thankful.

Anyone got links to the spoiled decks, preferably not from megaz

Run him with Old Rowdy and murdoch'd forgeguard, tossing in finn if u weant the speed boost

arguably you could do the stormblades + ua + gunners

or just a stormwall?

Time's up

No anime titties, no trolls.

That extra AoE with a pow 10 blast is going to be pretty good at getting to and killing enemy support.

oh well

Stormwall has been Dojo'd by Courage of Caspia and it does O K but not great.

Forgeguard might be the way but there's a lot of real nasty anti-infantry in MK3.

...

I hope this doesn't come back to haunt me:

4shared.com/office/tn8d7GaRce/Cygnar.html

4shared.com/office/Nq1fcdXmce/Trollblood.html

I don't care for anime titties.

Those are weak titties but ok

Some guy put them all on his dropbox

dropbox.com/sh/fu8dntmjxoxmuum/AACSJvzuJ3hJQ6ixBXqy4YUfa/troll leaks.pdf?dl=0

Stormblades are worth the look since they got Iron Zeal now iirc, and a junior buffing them plus maybe stormsmith grenadiers/sbc is gonna shit out a ton of damage if it reaches. You'll want to test the survivability of both options. Ol Rowdy is a staple though and will likely continue to be.

sending russians to get you as I type this

May you be blessed

i like an avenger, ol' rowdy and two AT rifleman as suggested on the forums. Caine can tag any beast or jack with grievous wounds and the avenger FFEing will knock it flat on its ass and knock a heap of boxes out of it and the rifles will keep pinging away aiming at the cortex that now cant be repaired (or spirit on beasts)

after the first few turns, a gallant on jakes, ol' rowdy and the avenger can get into melee.

its not the best against armor and i'd drop someone else against the worst ARM spam out there but its workable

Junior + Firefly + (SBC jm-Stormclad) + Full SB would be hilarious. You got some insane hitting power, but to be honest if I want to run this I'm going to do it with Maddox and then have Runewood marshall the Stormclad.

Maddox makes the Blades +3arm and Tough and gives them BB and +3 strength on the charge which is mind numbing amounts of hitting power.

Irony. I share the Americans and get the russians.

Doing the lord's work.

I've been reading that thread and I think the Avenger is a god-like jack in MK3.

I really think that Caine 2 is the only anti-infantry a list needs, with his innate magic bullet and the constant threat of 9-10 shots.

That's why I think that running a "Jackspam" list on him could be the best answer to his problems.

Arlan + Mechanics can keep his jacks alive while he can fuel three jacks a turn to full focus while still camping 1. This is also without using Arlan or something like Stormclads.

Obviously there's better Jack casters but the idea is that Caine's got HR, a solid FFE drop in the Avenger, and then enough firepower to drop any solo's that annoy him. His feat is also still able to do some serious hurt to just about anything.

Anyone have khador?

>Because the way that dice probability works, when you roll dice, your probability of doing higher then average damage also increases.
I don't think you actually grasp how rolling more d6 affects the curve

I dunno. I just used Any dice and used the "Roll at least" function. and there is a clear probability difference at each echelon of damage.

Most people don't.

7, 3.5, all those numbers aren't the average when you look at damage.

You can spike high, but there's no such thing as spiking low. The lowest you can do on damage is 0, which raises the probability curve higher for damage rolls.

So dice-6 isn't actually 1, it's more like 1.5 or so because rolling a 5 or less doesn't heal the target, it just does 0. So spiking damage doesn't have a corresponding negative value for a low roll, it's just all 0. That's why a weaponmaster is better than just straight +3.5 because of spikes.

There's a chart somewhere with the true values of damage probabilities I need to find. But it means that dice-7 isn't 0 average for example, it's somewhere between 0.5 and 1 iirc.

Pfft. I like Soles' haircut. Kind of, at least.

Last thread:

GTFO faggot. Your kind isn't welcome round here.

My pDenny gunline is unchanged. I've been focusing on venny/scavvy/denny3

Does anyone have eyes on any of the Ret stuff not in the spoiled deck? House Lys healer, Ellowyr Swordsmen and Helios iirc.

I find I'll use 3.5 for quick math to make a point, but in my own head I tend to keep in mind the total ranges.

Probability takes a lot of space to do right. Discussions are going to be in short hand because of that.

anydice.com/

Use this website. Just type in something like 3D6-3 VS 4D6-6 and set it too "At least" and table

Example of the difference:

Say, a Iron Fang Pikeman (Pow 13) VS a Khador Juggernaught
anydice.com/program/1412

And a Pow 10+ Weaponmaster VS Khador Juggs

anydice.com/program/8873

Make sure to set them to at least.

New to the hobby, which black primer and matte varnish do you guys use for your minis?

>anydice.com/
Thanks for the link that's a good one. Can it do target numbers?

I don't use matte. I find it takes way too much out of the metallics. I've tried that before and was really disappointed, it dulls it way too much. I just do clear coats now.

army painter

Testors dullcoat

I... I'm sorry. In my defence I don't have a similar haircut.

Krylon primer works great.

If you are a goddamn savage. You want the badger stynylrez which will work on plastic or metal. The vellajo primer smooths out better, but peels badly on pewter.

Krylon is for scrubs from middle america that only have a wal mart close by.

What's wrong with krylon?

Sometimes when I look over Hordes and do the math I seriously wonder why people are complaining.

Like I'm looking at the Mauler. And I'm not seeing any issue with it's damage output or utility. It's got some flexibility in grab and smash. I'm counting 30 boxes which is well within heavy warjack range + it's snacking/rapid recovery stuff. Even if it just self casts rage and goes to town with 3 fury left it does plenty of melee damage.

Maybe it's just that I should ignore the doom and gloom more.

Its not really priming. Its spray painting your model black. Actual krylon level spray primer is going to go on too thick and lose all your detail.

What you want from a primer is "tooth." Basically the primer is rougher at the microscopic level helping it pull more paint off the brush. That is why it looks matte.

Krylon primer is most likely just black spray paint which is made to be smooth even when matte and won't do what you want when it comes to taking paint.

That being said its better than nothing if it is all you have.

An airbrush setup and a bottle of the badger stuff you get for a $100 bucks and will do a much better job.

Why do you assume every retard bitching on the Internet has a valid argument? Everyone but Retribution players and Mercs are whining

Because the people that are bitching are just Troll faggots who wanted to play a totaly broken list with 11 free points in a fury system with no draw backs.

Or spam 8 wound arm 23 weaponmaster butt faggot blue dudes.

Neither of which was fun when the entire tournament was filled with the same fucking two lists and Haley2.

I've been painting pic related with Krylon grey primer. It has always held detail just fine for me.

>Like I'm looking at the Mauler. And I'm not seeing any issue with it's damage output or utility. It's got some flexibility in grab and smash. I'm counting 30 boxes which is well within heavy warjack range + it's snacking/rapid recovery stuff. Even if it just self casts rage and goes to town with 3 fury left it does plenty of melee damage.
I don't recall any Troll players complaining about the Mauler. Really, we don't have too much to legitimately complain about except perhaps Burrowers, the Impaler, the Skinner and Borka-2.

Other than that we aren't bad, but just kinda boring.

It's one of my bad habits.

I haven't heard much about Dozer and Smigs and they seem scary/fantastic.

Earthborn doesn't look that bad either. 32 boxes with elemental communion for more defensive tech, immunity to elemental crap, the standard dire regen + snacking, and Earth's Blessing Animus? Sure his highest melee output is 3 damage boosted P+S 15s without buffs but man is removing him from a scenario area going to be troublesome.

Yet the doom patrol was acting like EBDT is totally unplayable. Why put a second Mauler in a list over EBDT? What if your list is scenario oriented?

I use the krylon white that's pure primer, not the paint+primer spray.

There was this really weird anti-mauler vibe when insider dropped for Trolls. Though that may have been a "EBDT was better at damage before and now it's not. Don't make us take Mauler. Make EBDT crazy damage again" thing.

Also fair enough. I've been wondering if Burrowers start 6" out of base deployment or AD line which makes a big difference. Though they did get nerfed crazy hard.

What's wrong with Impaler, Skinner and Borka 2 btw?

Fair enough.

i didn't ever really play eSkarre in mk2, but the kraken was a starting point for me in mk3. mostly I've been thinking about gaspy3 or vinny to pair with denny1. i want to look at shade3 as well but losing ghostly for no fucking reason just kinda bums me out.

>What's wrong with Impaler, Skinner and Borka 2 btw?
Since the Impaler can't pass out his animus anymore and the Bomber also has Snipe, we really don't have any reason to take him anymore unless you want a cheaper warbeast with Snipe for a ranged warlock like Grim. He was much cooler before because he could pass it out to the War Wagon, Pyre, Slag, etc. But now, I just can't really justify him when a Bomber is more generally useful, even for the extra points.

The Skinner still can't damage anything. Even with an extra point in STR. Ambush and Treewalker really don't solve his core problem; he can't put the hurt on anything. He does too little for 4 points when compared to other things like the Croak Hunter.

And Borka-2 is just boring and doesn't do much out of his feat turn. He is a very defensive warlock except where it comes to his stats and abilities. He is just.... weird.

i more want to dojo against caine haha. ecaine is solidly S tier at this point. not sure what an assassination caster also needed to have attrition power but ok :\

I'm a Ret player looking to switch to Minions (or maybe Circle with heavy Croak usage) because Hordes looks so much more fun to me.

Hmm interesting. Whats the word on the other Troll lights? Night Troll, Pyre, Slag, Axer.

4 is a pretty good approximation for the value of weapon master. It *is* worth more than 3.5, but it's not *much* more in most cases.

against tough infantry, do you think shooting more trick shots or using grievous is better? my friend is a fan of tough errants and i was wondering if i kill more of them firing trick shots or grievous

i definitely agree that all caine needs is arm crack to make him work. i can't see any infantry except heavy infantry surviving his 3 initials from reinholdt + however many other shots he wants to buy.

my pairing right now is eCaine and Nemo3. Nemo handles the real hardcore jack spam, and centurions with nemo are just dirty.

eCaine can handle just about anything though

Actually its worth more then 4 because its upper end damage is still more likely to happen.

A Weaponmaster unit does exponentially more damage then a Unit with even just a flat +4 bonus.

>exponentially

I don't think you understand what that word means.

Ret got crazy good fyi ;)

COC dojo!

Lucant +28
-Corollary -6
-Inverter -15
-Inverter -15
TEP -19
ADO -2
Accretion Servitors -2
Foundry x2 -10
Steelsoul x1 -4
Obstructors -11
Eradicators -15
Optifex Directive -4

can also swap the Inverter, Steelsoul, and TEP for an Axiom.

Syntherion +27
-Corollary -6
-Axiom -38
-Assimilator -16
-Cipher -17
-Diffuser -6
-Galvanizer -5
ADO -2
Steelsoul x1 -4
Attunement Servitors -4
Optifex Directive -4

Ok well maybe not that case but point is that weaponmaster does more damage PER UNIT on top of more damage per singular trooper.

> Night
Got a bit better and is our cheapest light at 7 points. His animus is the main reason to take him as it allows him to control where models move a little bit, but with MAT 5 and ARM 15 he will get into melee and then just die. A filler beast, really, and not much more.

> Swamp
Got better. RAT 6 really does help a bit. I feel like his animus still costs too much, but other than that he is cheap and okay. I still don't think we will see him very much since he can only drag medium and small bases and the chances of him being able to hit and damage (and thus be able to drag) a warlock/caster are kinda slim, so he will probably continue to sit on people's shelves.

> Axer
Lost a point of ARM, but got cheaper. Overall still a solid beast and a staple for beast-heavy lists thanks to Rush.

> Bouncer
Got MAT 6 and an alright animus. Honestly don't know if he is worth the points, though.

> Winter
Got cheaper but his animus is RNG Self and he still has RAT 4. Still utter garbage.

> Slag
Lost the +2 damage on his animus, so now Acidic Touch is laughably worthless. Otherwise he is really good against non-living targets thanks to Erosion on his melee attacks and Assault. He is... specialized. But, he is REALLY good at his job, so I think he will see play.

> Pyre
Still pretty good. RAT is now 5, RNG 10 on his spit. Only bad part is Flaming Fists is now RNG self. I think he will still be used for his animus and auto-fire inducing ranged attack.

Just picked up this lot for $125, never played the army before. Wondering what I should get to add onto it.

Kommander Harkevich
Black Ivan
Destroyer
Destroyer
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Great Bears of Gallowswood
Widowmakers

Behemoth

I know, they're nuts.

would valid like MOWs? just thinking of synergy bw dash + desperate pace + hand of fate

i mean Vlad3

Some thoughts

> Swamp
If light jack spam starts really being a thing then something like Swamp gets better.

>> Slag
We don't know if corrosion stayed the same. So that might change. Also, man dat erosion.

Glanced Impaler. Seemed okay on its own. I can see where it might get overshadowed but it's still putting out potential ranged slams.

I think you missed the lightning troll.

I think in general a lot of warbeasts will feel better when they have targets they can actually slam and throw. Which really only requires a reduction in Huge bases and increase in medium/large bases across the board.

I would look at denny3 I think she is the best caster in the faction atm

My friend likes caine2, and I've been working with him to try to figure up a jack heavy list. The idea being, Caine2 + Ace can clear a lot of infantry by themselves, letting the rest of the list focus on fucking things. The sword knights give a screen that's def 15 in melee, can be used with flank to finish off a target the jacks don't one-round, and thanks to the UA they can re-activate jacks if one of the jrs die.

So you've got one centurion hitting arm 24 with shield, ol rowdy at def 14 and KD immune, sword knights that are def 15 vs melee and KD immune, rune shots everywhere, a shield guarding sentinel, and another centurion. FFE on one of the jrs lets it take a double boosted hand cannon shot each turn without using its own focus.

Caine2 +27
Centurion 17
Ace 12
Sentinel 8
Squire 5

Jr 4
Centurion 17

Jakes 4
Ol Rowdy 18

Sword Knights 13
Sword knight UA 4

how so? Soul Mastery got fucked something fierce.

Oh, and can arcane shield the knights if there's a heavy blast presence. Arm 17 is enough that even high explosive blasts are only killing 40% of the time if they're not boosted.