Pathfinder General /pfg/

I know, I mighy shoop the mask a bit thoigh so ot looks less like a puckered up ass

At what point does boosting the 30 ft-ranged touch attack that is Mystic Bolts turn into absolute, totally busted madness?

>Int-to-damage
>free action activation for the Arcane Strike feat
>enhancement bonus to attack and damage, no special weapon abilities
>increase crit range to 19-20/2x and attack range to 40 ft
>adds all the damage together before applying elemental resistances
>pierces up to 20 elemental resistance
>can pick one element, can tell an enemy with that immunity to go fuck itself and pierce through it

Reminder of the following
>All forms of TWF work with melee and ranged versions
>Rapid Shot works with and stacks with the above
>T O U C H A T T A C K S

Thanks heaps brahs, that certainly puts a dampener on things. Maybe if a character has an affinity for them, they could get a virtual pilot level.

There's a Mech Piloting feat, which only psionic characters can take
Mech Piloting [Psionic]
You’ve gained access to a powerful techno-psionic suit.
Prerequisites: Psicrystal Affinity, Psi-Core Upgrade, TechnologistTG, manifester level 5th .
Benefit: You gain access to a bonded mech as a pilot of your character level -4. If you later gain a mech through another source, the effective pilot level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources, up to your total character level. While piloting a psi-mech suit your psi-core must be in the mainframe configuration.

But there's also a Craft Mech feat where it says if someone has the keys/control mechanism to the mech, they can also pilot it
Craft Mech
You can craft powerful warmachines, called mechs.
Prerequisites: Technologist, Craft (mechanical) 11 ranks, Knowledge (engineering) 11 ranks
Benefit: You can create mechs. Any character with access to the vehicle’s key or other control mechanism may drive and use this vehicle. Creating a mech takes 1 week for every 1,000 gp in the item's price. To create the object, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price. See Non-Companion Mechs and Vehicles for more information.
You can repair a broken mech if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft the mech from scratch.

Don't lie to me /pfg/, what are your thoughts on the hybrid classes?
Good idea poor executed?
Wasted potential?
Goddamn need more of them?

Some are good, some are not. They vary.

I've been wanting to put a Hellknight Deceiver build together for a while now, but haven't found a game that'll accommodate it yet.

it depends

Mixed bag.

The Investigator, Slayer, Bloodrager, and Brawler were all very nice additions to the game, in my opinion.

Hunter and Skald are all right, haven't had much experience with them, though.

Arcanist, Shaman, Warpriest all felt unnecessary and didn't allow for more interesting hybrids to be attempted. Only the serious revision to the Hunter allowed it to avoid entering this category as well. The motherfucker who sat down to write Arcane Exploits and then decided after the playtest the class needed a buff needs to be punched in the goddamn face.

Swashbuckler was a good idea with utterly horrendous execution.

You mean J "Casters need better things than the martials" Bulhman?

What made the swashbuckler utterly horrendous mechanically?

Like many of the Paizo-made classes, they're pretty solid as long as you stick to the Tier 1-3 classes. Beyond that and you get caught in the caster-martial disparity that's been a plague since 3.5.

I can understand Paizo not wanting to reinvent the wheels while they're taking over the car, but you can only do so much when you're running on bad tires, ya know?

>Hybrid of two classes with good fort saves has a bad fort save
>A class heavily based upon swift actions is also heavily reliant on a defensive class feature that prevents you from using swift actions on your following turn
>A martial class has a limited but highly important resource that runs out faster than spells
>A class billed as a "mobile fighter" has no abilities that help it move around in battle besides one small, limited boost to climb, swim, and acrobatics/escape artist
>The class is meant to be a dex-to-damage type but Paizo's burning hatred for dexterity-to-damage keeps coming into play to make it jump through hoops the rogue does not
>There's a cavalier archetype in the SAME BOOK that is basically a strictly better version of the class
>Despite being panned as very underpowered in the playtest, precisely none of the complaints about the class were addressed

To be 100% fair, Precise Strike gives more of a damage bonus than you're going to get from dexterity, with no panache cost.

Unless you're fighting something immune to Precision. Or are getting crits. Which you often will since the class is designed for rapiers.

I also like that they didn't realize they made it easier for the swashbuckler to have a dexterity-focused build with the fucking BATTLEAXE than a Rapier until they released a hasty patch feat to get rapiers in on that action.

Nevertheless, your pilot level is the max level of mech you can handle - as explained... only in the fucking Eclipse's description (good job ssalarn, do try to fix that!)

I've been wanting to make a Warlock but I've found it shit. Teach me your (legal) tricks, sempai

>At what point does boosting the 30 ft-ranged touch attack that is Mystic Bolts turn into absolute, totally busted madness?

Just give it range akin to Close spells (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) and it should be reasonable.

At least it gets improved crit for free at level 5, but yeah.

Never.
>40 foot range
cuckish
>relying on damage dealing
Literally the worst strategy
>free Clustered shots
Oh wow that's so incredible (not)
>being able to bypass a little resistance
Shitty knockoff of actual weapon enhancement bonus bypassing DR.

cuck/10 would never use.

Privateer archetype. You give up basically nothing if you're a Stalker ("oh no, not BLENDING") and your Warleader stuff as a Warlord, which hurts, but secretly you're relieved not to have to spend any actions not being personally awesome.

You get a jumble of cute, fluffy benefits, replace your entire list of Disciplines with a hybrid list (this I think makes the archetype universally incompatible with just about every other archetype, yes?) and...get access to ploys.

Most ploys are very good.

Sea Combat, tho.

You treat ranged attacks with firearms against adjacent opponents as melee attacks in every way. In EVERY way, specifically calling out using Strength for attack and damage, Power Attacking, strikes, feats, and other abilities, and you treat one-handed firearms as light (!) and do not need a hand free to reload them (!!!) so you don't always have to play a fucking tiefling (!!!!!). They don't get the benefit of FEATS that assume ranged attacks, but nothing else is called out - presumably anything that works with firearms and isn't a feat still works with them.

So now you basically have melee-range high-damage touch attack weapons with huge crits, some feat-gating, and a lot of gold overhead. Aside from being the most badass Mithral Current master to ever live (touch attack + flatfooted goes together very nicely for the rare, rare enemy who can handle just touch attacks) what can you do with this? My mind is spinning with possibilities.

(They can also free-action demoralize in 30 feet when they succeed at a gambit, but honestly who can't at this point)

If you've got other Swift actions you want to do, the Stamina trick for Arcane Strike lets you spend points to increase its duration. So if you spend two points, it lasts for three rounds.

Also, the trick for Riving Strike also extends THAT's duration, so you can make it last long enough for your own spells to take advantage of it.

Is bloat a big problem with this game now?

I'm just getting back into this and GMing a campaign, and I'm seriously considering just going core-only. Or at least limiting it to the ultimate books and APG/ARG.

I'm reading about character builds on the Paizo forums that have me worried.

Core only is awful. You're usually gonna be able to keep on top of everything if you go PRD-only, although tellingly pretty much everything that's made the Fighter better of late has not been in books that go on the PRD.

Never listen to complaints on the paizo forums.

We've had people bitching about Press To The Wall being overpowered, because oh no, a rogue was able to use it to more easily get flanking.

In a fucking PFS dungeon.

It's still better than 3.5's bloat I think, but it's there. The bright side though is that most of the stuff that's published in companions is usable by Martials or 6th level casters, so it's not all boosting Wizards.

Say that in the thread.

And don't forget the people arguing tooth and nail about how Humans need a boost to their power because Dwarves overshadow them.

I feel like the SRD does a lot to help with bloat. There's a lot of options, but having them all in one place (and by that I mean your choice of like 3 different "one places") makes it way easier to keep track. Even if there's more content than 3.5 had, I've never felt nearly as overwhelmed as I did making 3.5 characters.

I seem to recall someone questioning if Armored Hulk Dwarf Barbarians were OP because they could use Armored Swiftness without having a move speed reduction from heavy armor.

In what way do you think Core only would be awful?

>Bloat
Not really. the SRD keeps it from being awful about bloat - Bloat is only a problem when you can't just punch in the rule you're looking for into a search bar.

>Paizo forums
Hugbox of idiots. This isn't even Veeky Forums's usual exaggeration this time - the devs often ban people with conflicting views. Don't pay attention to them.

>Core Only
Do NOT. Seriously, the worst imbalances in the game are in the core rulebook, and cutting off a wide variety of rules is a good way to create imbalances. More options is a good thing in this game, not a bad thing.

PF doesn't have a bloat problem in anywhere near the ways 3.5 had. The issue 3.5 had is tht they kept putting out broker and broker shit. PF's most broke shit is still the Wizard. Core-only only serves to maintain PF's inherent balance issues.

Because the only interesting/good classes are the T1 casters. All the stuff that makes Monks, Rogues, and even fucking Fighters interesting to use or even reaching T3 is in non-CRB material.

The real trick is to make sure everyone's roughly on the same level of optimization, and from there you can go with whatever.

For example, if you've got a party of massive AoE and ranged damage dealers, obviously their heroics should be less about going on some dumb errand while the real party retrieved the all-important artifact for Iomedae, and more about fighting off an invading army like Guan-Yu on the fucking bridge.

Where shit falls the fuck apart is if you try to run newbie monks through an AP, or a group with a wizard and cleric through an AP, or try to do some kind of social adventure with a wizard and a cleric, or any kind of campaign where there's a CRB-Only-Rogue stuck with a bunch of druids and master summoners.

I thought it was just me, but some of the people on the Paizio forums just seem like horrible autistic people to GM for. They didn't seem to be quite that bad a couple years back, I even ran a few PbP games and have fun doing so.

Just as a tip, never run Adventure Paths on PbP forums with strangers, stick to modules or PFS scenarios or one-offs. Even the most dedicated RPers lose interest after six months, and players drop out all the time.

What are some good classes for some kind of Centaur knight? Is the Charger cavalier archetype any good? It looks a little bland aside from bonus lance damage.

I'm not sure if 3pp is allowed or not. Feel free to suggest stuff, but just in case I'd like some 1pp ideas too.

Core is literally the greatest source of imbalance in the system. Core-Only is as bad as it gets.

It fields the worst weakest classes (monks, rogues, fighters) and the very strongest classes (The 9th level casters), with some of the worst fucking feats, and most of the metamagics, some of the strongest Save-Or spells, and some of the dumbest class abilities...

All in the same book.

Core-only is garbage. Look into PoW to help bring martials up and look to things like Ertw's Beguiler to pull caster power levels down.

Bloat is EXTREME, but you have to learn all of it, because otherwise you're fucking your players and creating a shitty gamestate that barely manages to improve over 3.5.

Bloat and Pathfinder are essentially synonymous. Overflowing oceans of bizarre option combination possibilities and layered archetypes and shenanigans for days, weeks, months, years. is wrong, there is now far more bullshit you need to track in Pathfinder than there was in 3.5 at its height. Archetypes alone are fucking insane.

Look up a modern, updated discussion of the tier lists - good luck! - and start by just allowing things that are Tier 3 and 4 into consideration (that excludes basically all full casters) and work your way up to Tier 2 next game. Never go beyond Tier 2 for any reason.

Accept the following paradigm: if your mages are unable to solve ANY GIVEN situation in three spellcasts, either they're slow-witted or you're trying too hard. If your martial players cannot kill an average of one enemy every 1.5 rounds, they're bad or you're trying too hard. If that doesn't sound great to you, try D&D 5E, Exalted, any FATE system/setting, Chronicles of Darkness (Dark Eras for all your medieval fantasy needs), branch out into stuff like Eclipse Phase or Wushu, get serious about your gaming and upgrade to GURPS, uh, do literally anything else.

Ditto if you aren't excited and aroused by bloat. I have as much nostalgia as anyone, but there is NOTHING in Pathfinder to keep you EXCEPT FOR the trillions of recombinable options that allow you to do whatever bizarre fanfic bullshit you want. 5E is in every way a better game if you stay d20, but only GURPS (and I guess technically FATE-esque light systems) can match Pathfinder's breadth and that's more like if you want to want a game about undead Nazis using steampunk mecha and rare, aggressive botanical hybrid strains to take over Europe and you want exhaustive build-your-own subsystems for every part of that.

>Accept the following paradigm: if your mages are unable to solve ANY GIVEN situation in three spellcasts, either they're slow-witted or you're trying too hard. If your martial players cannot kill an average of one enemy every 1.5 rounds, they're bad or you're trying too hard.

>feature that is basically just damage is the only unique thing about a class
>only real way to make it do anything that /isn't/ just damage is to just slap spell combat and spellstrike on it

what do you want from me, user, I'm already trying to make a shitty feature worth at least SOMETHING.

So Paizo have no idea what they're doing

>Honestly being this much of a cuck in the year of our lord 2016

only sometimes.
the rest of the time they're giving people exactly what they want: stronger full-caster options and retardedly offensive shit errata nerfing martial options that had been fine for years with an attitude as if they were minor typos just barely missed from last week at the printers.

I've played 5e and FATE. They can be fun. But they don't reward my mastery of the system, do they?

I'm irrationally fond of 3.5/PF though because reasons. Probably because we had a great time doing Carrion Crown a few years back.

This is the answer right here. If you want a game with reasonable balance, avoid Paizo completely.

It's true for all adventure paths and modules. The degree to which Your Special Game can divert without piles of restrictions and buffed encounters isn't 0, but it's not a lot, and it depends on an experienced GM who can tailor and fine-tune without just being a dick. Bluntly speaking, there aren't many of those.

People like to tote the one-action-one-encounter magic bullet paradigm for wizards, but in my experience there's usually a spell or two of setup. If you're using Path of War, the insane damage (don't fight it, you know it's fucking true) output combined with mobility and multiple-targeting options means it's more like 1.5 enemies every round, but otherwise the numbers hold.

Regardless of our personal stances, every single person in this general will agree with that.

I do!

Actually can I be a Zweihander Sentinel Ordained Defender Warder? I promise to take Black Seraph and smite the dregs of society and women for Asmodeus!

I feel like Paizo on the whole don't know what they're doing.

Some people in there are alright. But they have to sneak past the people who don't, and feel like weapon cords were OP.

Weapon Master's Handbook must-a been a fucking natural 20, I tell you that much.

>For Asmodeus

You poor fool.

>If I can't do it, someone with 18 in all stats can't possibly pull it off, it would be unrealistic
>If it's vancian magic, it's never unreasonable no matter what, no problem!

>Uh... does that mean we ARE, or we AREN'T getting chinese tonight for the playtest?
>WHAT? What do you MEAN fighters who fall 20 stories don't necessarily die?

I'm curious to see if Paizo's developers will ever even MENTION Advanced Weapon Training or Advanced Armor Training in a book from the precious RPG line.

Some more Weapon Mastery feats would be nice, too.

5E lightly rewards system mastery when you get into intelligent multiclassing and cute things like shield rogues or dragon aspirant bards, but yeah, it's got a low optimization ceiling and a nice high floor. Very friendly game, not for system masters.

FATE absolutely rewards system mastery, it's just a different kind of system mastery. You don't need to know what feats to take (because you make them up) you need to know what's inherently valuable and how to negotiate. It's more...I guess creative instead of comprehensive, you have to see where power could be instead of understanding what power looks like, but it's still strategic. Also, it's nice that engaging with and inflicting your will upon the setting is mechanically optimal.

I understand the love for PF, but the flaws are inescapable. The way system mastery in PF works can be rewarding when your oddball concept feels good to play, but it's also the source of a lot of pain and suffering, like dating your bully after you've learned how to stay on his good side. Yeah, the sex is awesome, but there's still lots of things you can't do, and somewhere out there you know there are victims whose tears are the echoes of your stolen youth.

d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/baleful-shadow-transmutation

So.. this spell doesn't has the "no more than 1HD" limit like Baleful Polymorph, and you can change creature into other humanoid.

What sort of magical realm can I do with this?

Here's the thing with weapon cords.
Paizo expects martials to need at least one or two feats (Improved+Greater disarm) to become good at disarming.

Even then, you're useless against enemies that don't use weapons.
And then even when you could be useful, if every martial you fought had swift action weapon retrieval and can pick their weapon up and full attack you next turn anyway, then you might as well not have bothered at all.

Disarm is already almost made obsolete by Dirty Trick, swift action weapon cords make it even worse.

Its okay he's a double agent.

Gelatinous cubes. Just don't need to breath, be immune to acid, it's like a vibrating fleshlight for your whole body that can also stuff your assorted orifices and quiver indignantly.

Magic Tactics Toolbox bro, it's got possibly the best new Advanced Weapon Training option in it.

Warpriest gets a pass because its the only way to play a Sacred Fist anymore.

Only humanoid or animal though. Ooze isn't either.

Those are pretty nice, but I mean one of their big hyped up books like Ultimate Intrigue or Occult Adventures was. The RPG line that goes on the PRD.

It feels like the good shit is in these side books.

>unironically suggesting 5e or Exalted

looooooooool

>I understand the love for PF, but the flaws are inescapable. The way system mastery in PF works can be rewarding when your oddball concept feels good to play, but it's also the source of a lot of pain and suffering, like dating your bully after you've learned how to stay on his good side. Yeah, the sex is awesome, but there's still lots of things you can't do, and somewhere out there you know there are victims whose tears are the echoes of your stolen youth.

Damn, son

Oh I get what you mean. It's unfortunate, but it probably won't since it's an optional ruleset that was printed in a companion book. Best we can hope for is more of them in more companion books.

Oh. Well, a cat is fine too.

>If you're using Path of War, the insane damage (don't fight it, you know it's fucking true) output combined with mobility and multiple-targeting options means it's more like 1.5 enemies every round, but otherwise the numbers hold.

Your salt is showing. Also,

>not maximizing HP on their enemies and giving them prep time and at least one counter for any 'magic bullet' solutions from a PC caster

Cuck detected.

I need help naming a place; it’s a ziggurat where every level has a shrine dedicated to a specific Demon Lord. Cultist, worshipers or anyone trying to curry favor from a Demon Lord can try to climb the steps of the ziggurat in their name and rededicate the shrines to their patron. The shrines are obviously protected by increasingly powerful guardians but the higher above others one places their patron the better with highest level having a gate to the abyss control by the top dog.
It’s basically a dick measuring contest by proxy between demon lords, with a different demon lords controlling each level.

i mean is he wrong? holden and morke are liars etc etc but aside from that its pretty playable. idk about 5e, i played a rogue, it was great, but rogues are always great so.

Its all the same problems of 2e shifted slightly to the left. You guys need to stop drinking the cool aid. Take whatever cool setting ideas you like and play it in a better system.

Playing Pathfinder is pic related, but why are we all doing it?

Because I can't find a shadowrun group.

back to /pol/, kittens. here in Veeky Forums none of us have ever felt a woman's touch, except for those of us who are women, so there's nothing to cuck except our dreams - and post-college careers already accomplished that, regardless of which faggot you give power over, or even if you're one of those neogoth anarchists types since you've given your life over to the biggest faggot of all, yourself.

shoo shoo, little ones. hop like a bunny. it's too sad here for your spicy memes.

Plus if you arm them with XASERS and Railguns, or at least some automatics, their 60ft blindsight range stops being a problem!

... Sorta.

Us: the struggling hermit crab
That engulfing thing/worm: Paizo

youtube.com/watch?v=pExGvAO3lQk

That's not much better, but at least its not Exalted.

Which edition?

Closer to 1/rd, rather than 1.5
Of course superchargers, proper barbarians, heavy paladins, etc are all on the same level of output.

5e, because it's the only one I know.

I'm having a rousing good time with pure tier 1-3 with optimized PoW characters and more laid back full casters in the same party. Lets the DM throw dickheads with SLAs and magic at us more safely, while also giving his melee brutes maneuvers to scare the shit out of said spellcasters.

I suggest trying it!

i legitimately enjoy initiative combat. BP/XP, counterattacks, solar doombot, and wyldfailing are dumb as FUCK, but that's not even a page of houserules, no trouble to me. as someone who's been playing it a while, i am honestly having fun.

craft is bad but our twilight likes it so i haven't admittedly tackled that one yet. but she likes it, does it matter? idk. i just give her whatever she wants 'cause it's like her entire sheet.

i think it's fine but if you don't i got no beef with you leaving for greener (more WUSHU?) pastures.

Ah, I learned it on 2e and 3e so idk what its like nowadays, but it was pretty bad back in the day.

This is my fetish

...

Nah, not Wushu. I just like setting ideas. Honestly to me Exalted never felt very 'wuxia' despite people calling it that. Awful lot of huge ass swords and brutes in cool armor for the flimsy wire-fu aesthetic.

ex3 is bad because, at least with my playtesting and experiences, has just been 2e with a longer delay until someone explodes into gore, even more bloated options which was already a huge issue in 2e (im) and a glacial release schedule reducing everyone to Just Fucking Solars. I've been around since 1e, lack of options just isn't an option for me anymore, yanno? Plus I don't wanna hear about how everyone is a cuck to Solar hegemony and thus needs to have shittier mechanical versions of their crap. It was getting pretty tiresome toward mid-late 2e, and very weird to me when I remember 1e Soalrs being kind of middle of the pack, and definitely overwhelmed by shit like Lunar/Abyssal Brawl, Sidereal MA, etc. and making up for it with versatility. Solar Circle Sorcery helped, too...

That's creepy, can we have more, please?

Its still shit.

>throw Dragon Turtle with 6 Sorc levels at my Level 7 PC's - a UCRogue, 2 Alchemists, and a Totemic Skald
>they beat it in four rounds

>throw a Grimm at them the next day
>it actually fails its save against a stink bomb
>and then gets wrecked while its standard actions are disabled
>said stink bomb also hit it hard enough to make it blow a concentration check on its Call Lightning SLA

I am the worst GM.

Did you try throwing more than one critter at a time

are they going to completely fuck dragonblooded up the ass so that even the usurpation would literally have been impossible and they would have been useless as soldiers against the shit the solars fought despite the fluff again?

Single big enemies get their shit pushed in. Give them minions or give them DR or Regen or work a gimmick.

>DR

Grimm have DR 15/Silver or Good.

So they just hit it with energy damage until it died.

I felt as if that would be too unfair.

Clearly I was wrong.

...