MTG Legacy General

Squirrels

>what should I play?
if you don't actually play legacy, you should sleeve up eldrazi stompy. very straightforward chalice deck that requires no knowledge of the legacy metagame to perform and has a realistic price-point if you decide you want to have real cards.

your decision tree goes

>turn 1: sol land, chalice on 1 your go
>turn 2-infinity: play dudes, beat face

Pretty much this, Eldrazi preys on a weakness in Legacy decks in that they don't really do combat, it's an easy win for a few more months until the crowd finally has too accept it's not getting a ban and expand their removal suite, from there the deck will probably get a little more techy.

If you're looking for a fun deck OP could look at stuff like Deathblade, it feels like a Modern deck so in terms of pacing he should be fine, just spend a week playing around with Brainstorm.

Can't really recommend this deck to anyone. It's one sided masturbation deck that's not even that strong despite being one of the hardest ones to play through.

its best matchup is also lands.

Most good players have already adapted. I'm playing 2 decays and 1 dismember in grixis delver, and that feels really strong.

I also play painter. The Eldrazi matchup is the most slanted matchup in legacy. Its more than 80% in my experience.

Deathblade has a horrible manabase, and frankly I don't think it's a very good deck. I'd recommend starting with something like Grixis Delver or Sneak and Show; something with interaction and decision trees

Play Aluren! Silly combo value deck.

Thoughts on Shardless BUG?

Considering picking it up as a deck.
In real life.
With real cards.

Solid deck is solid. Seriously have never seen it so horrible in a tournament. Just be wary of blood moon as your mana base is vulnerable.

I think its a downright bad deck. Here's why.

1. No cheap interaction, so the combo matchup is pretty awful

Shardless agent is a powerful card. It imposes a strict deckbuilding restriction. Not being able to run spell pierce and flusterstorm cut you off having meaningful stack fights. Being an Abrupt Decay deck makes you naturally soft to elves as well.

2. Godawful mana

Similarly to Deathblade, the manbase is justified by having a Deathrite in play. When you don't have one, the mana is very tight. When the opponent is also pressuring your manabase, the deck can just crumble.

3. No great matchups

Many Shardless players claim that Miracles and Delver are good matchups. In practice, they end up being about 50/50. Delver can apply pressure and disruption, and Miracles has started playing more hard card advantage. Lands is pretty horrific. Death and Taxes is unfavored. So the deck has a horrific matchup against every combo deck, and bad matchups against some control decks and some. Its never heavily favored against top tier decks. (note: I do not consider Eldrazi a tier 1 deck)

All in all its a pretty solid tier 1.5-tier2 deck, but I would rather be playing BUG Delver and have a great combo than play a deck that has only very slight percentage advantages against midrange decks.

I have a cradle already should I build elves? Is elves good? Or should I give in and build dredge?

Elves is a top notch deck, I'd play that over dredge any day.

I am hoping some peeps pick up legacy in my area. I've never played legacy, but I got the cards for TES and ANT.

We'll see how bad I end up sucking.

To be fair, goldfish ANT and live person ANT are pretty similar

I thought the solid force behind Shardless is that it's about 50/50 against most matchups. It's definitely not too bad against combo as seize/hymn can save the day. Fair matchups are all about if shardless can stabilize before opponent runs out of gas as shardless itself will have all the tools to recover from bad position in a long run. I can't see why DnT is unfavored, it seems quite close one to me.

The question is, will I play ANT or TES?

>I do not consider Eldrazi a tier 1 deck
Except it is.

Play Cephalid Breakfast.

Play enchantress, the most fun deck, you sit , watching your opponent struggles as he just can't do anything to you. fuck memedrazi, goblins, merfolk, elves... except you are wanting for ant/oops all spells.

Bomberman or dredge.

ANT is the easier of the two, so play that.

third for this

Play 4 horsemen. It's real fun for real men.

ANT does seem a little easier from my goldfishing, TES seems like burning wish can get you a lot of cool stuff out of the sideboard and be very powerful, but considering I don't even know all the legacy cards and don't know what to put in the sideboard I suppose it's not going to do me much good.

I am preparing to miss a bunch of Cabal Therapies either way.

>don't know what to put in the sideboard
There's a website dedicated to TES, which may help you.
>theepicstorm.com/

>I am preparing to miss a bunch of Cabal Therapies either way.
If it's blind, name the card that beats your hand, not necessarily what they might have in their hand. Look at MTGGoldfish or something and study some of the decks you expect to face.

Well I'm just saying that I have no idea what the local meta looks like.

post it

Play Pox you fag. Only real men play Pox.

Expect Miracles, Delver, Eldrazi, D&T, and Storm at the very least.

It's a combo deck built around Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb. The monolith taps for 3, and can be untapped for 3. This gives you infinite self-mills with Mesmeric Orb. First you get three Narcomoeba. That's the easy part. Then you need to get Dread Return, Sharuum, and Blasting Station into your graveyard, but NOT Emrakul. If you mill Emrakul before getting the other three, you must start over. And since it doesn't fit the game's definition a loop, it must all be done manually. Again and again. Until your opponent calls the judge and you (correctly, by the rules) get a match loss for wasting time, or you assemble the three cards, Return Sharuum to bring back Blasting station, which combos with the Narcomoebas that Emrakul infinitely recycles to deal infinite damage.

The deck is fast and powerful, but is basically impossible to play because of the fact that it's not a 'demonstrable loop'. Even playing a single match with it and having to manually repeat self-milling yourself, over and over, then reshuffle every time Emrakul comes up before the other three (which, odds are, will happen a damn lot), is an exercise in masochism of the highest degree.

Play Green & Taxes, D&T with Pridemages, Sylvan Library, and green hate cards out of the side.

It dumpsters the mono-w D&T decks and gains points against the fair blue decks. I've been having a blast with it for a while in my local shop.

cant you just use sidisi so you're still gaining value from shuffling your deck with emrakul

I speak as an ANT/Sneak and Show player when I say that Shardless has a bad combo matchup. Their only instant speed interaction is force, so most of the time you can jam it with 1 protection spell backup.

If Shardless had 50/50 across the board I would endorse it, but it's 50/50 across 2/3rds of decks and 20/80 against 1/3rd. I don't think that's where you want to be

Its "good matchups" are all either very close or unfavored now that people have adjusted. Except Storm. Which is a very good matchup for Eldrazi.

Also, Shardless lacks a fast clock, which makes discard much less effective then it is in a Delver shell

Death and Taxes packs a lot of mana denial, and Decay is slow against Mom/the deck in general. Shardless Agent doesn't match up well against Thalia.

In general, 3drops.dek struggles against Thorn/Port/Waste.dek

Sidisi has made its way into a lot of the recent versions. It also helps with judge calls, as it's much more proactive. The problem is a)4-mana and b)no haste makes it not especially reliable, as opposed to the cheaper/faster and more difficult to disrupt Blasting Station plan.

My LGS had an event for a box of Eternal Masters. Went 2-1 and split the box 4 ways in the top 4. $30 buy in.

> played dredge
>went 2-0 vs Miracles
>mfw

48th for best waifu

Play stax or doomsday, or even dredge, swim in casual fag tears forever

I don't see how consistently dying before resolving Doomsday will piss of causals

Hi, I've been playing 4 Crystal Vein in my MUD Metalworker deck, thoughts? It helps resolving a crushing T1 Monolith or Chalice on 1, though it's pretty bad versus countermagic.

its easy, casuals hate dragging ass in games, they really really do, it annoys them, especially if you do shit on purpose, also:
>being bad enough to not consistantly win because you can actually do math in your head
git gud scrub

I play storm. Doomsday is like storm, but bad. If you assume you win every game that you resolve a Doomsday, the deck still sucks.

>Its "good matchups" are all either very close or unfavored now that people have adjusted.
Tiers are based on usage, and Eldrazi is the second most played deck in Legacy behind Legacy. And as much as you think it's true, it still hasn't stopped Eldrazi from placing in paper events.

> Legacy behind Legacy
Behind Miracles*

I base my tiers on strength against the metagame. Eldrazi places a lot because of how many people play it; its cheap and simple for grinders to play optimally. s lot of people show up with it, it will show up more in top 8's.

I predict that it will not fare well at the GP because people will be prepared for it.

Not him, but most people use the real tiers.

I don't care how you cut it, Eldrazi is a weak deck.

>my opinion is objective fact
>nothing you say can change that

>Eldrazi places a lot because of how many people play it; its cheap and simple for grinders to play optimally
If the deck is badly positioned, and people are prepared for it as you say, they would not be performing as well as they do, despite the large presence of the deck (which isn't overwhelmingly large, only 10% or so.)

>I predict that it will not fare well at the GP because people will be prepared for it.
You can say this for literally any deck.

Shiting goalposts =/= making points

Lists that have specific sideboard slots for Eldrazi tend to roll over it pretty well. Most of my legacy experience comes from testing. Running Delver vs Eldrazi I found that once I started leaving in Daze on the draw and taking out probe, the matchup became favorable. Legacy is generally slow to react.

I don't care that much about whether or not you think the deck is good. At the end of the day, I'm thrilled to see turn 1 Eldrazi Temple.

>shifting goalposts
What? I just pointed out what you said. You're retarded.

>Its not a tier 1 deck
>well, if you define tiers like this it is!
I believe you may be the retarded one

I used the commonly accepted tiers. You're the one who said "if you define tiers like this".

I'm pretty sure "tiers" refers to relative power level in a vast majority of games. I don't know why you think magic is different.

You said
>I base my tiers on
Which is literally
>if you define tiers like this

Im using the common definition. You're using one unique to yourself.

That's an important distinction.

you two modern shitters need to fuck off, ok? thanks.

You literally said you used your own definition, retard.

I will explain this one time.
I used the common definition. I explained what I meant for the sake of clarity.

You used a personal definition. No one else uses it

Show me where I used a definition other than the common one. Link me my post.

>tcdecks.net/tierdecks.php
Seems like Eldrazi is pretty high to me.
Show me your own personal tier list.

I'm taking DDFT to SCG Worcester in a month and I need help with my last wishboard slot. Should I run Telemin Performance or Meltdown?

>says he plays storm
>doesn't differentiate between TES and ANT
>thinks he knows anything about Doomsday

Stay in school.

Yeah, cause playing storm forces you to choose one path and never deviate. DDFT is a worse version of storm that people play because it's flashy and makes them look smart. I'm sure stacking IU LED LED Probe BW 75% of the time is really difficult.

Actually far more often Top is involved. Anyway, I agree the deck typically isn't that hard. But saying it is a worse version of "storm" is misleading. It is aproximately one turn slower than ANT, more resilient to discard and permanent based hate, and has a deterministic kill, as in if you resolve doomsday you win, barring user error (this isn't the case for Ad Nauseam). It's not worse exactly, just different, and a bit slower which turns a lot of people off. It has high-level finishes proportional to the number of people who play the deck well.

Disclaimer: I fell in love with the deck almost as soon as I started playing legacy and it's the only deck I'll ever play despite owning belcher and pox as well.

Is Tezzerator still a thing in Legacy?

Yes. In fact chalice decks are at the best they've ever been right now. And tezzeret gets to play Force as well.

Of course!

As reanimator what big dumb dumb can I add to my sideboard to beat lands? I've yet to beat the lands player at my shop and it's pissing me off. Sometimes I win g1 then have the slowest and most frustrating g2/3 ever

Sweet, I was thinking about getting into Legacy with it but I hadn't heard any talk about it for a while so I was worried it had fallen out of the meta.

Well it definitely isn't a highly played deck. But more than any other format, legacy rewards picking a deck and sticking to it, so if you like tezzerat or and are willing to put in the time to master it it's a great deck to get started with.

Ad Nauseam isn't the normal route in ANT. They usually combo off through PiF or tutor chaining.

How do you usually lose to g2/3?

But it and Etw are the normal routes in TES and neither are guaranteed to kill. ANT is .5 to 1 turns faster than DDFT and gains that speed by sacrificing it's ability to combo off through a gaddock teeg and a chains of mephistopheles.

>by sacrificing it's ability to combo off through a gaddock teeg and a chains of mephistopheles.
Sure, in game one. I go to my LGS once every week to play legacy, and I face Teeg like once every couple of months on average, and I have yet to face chains.

Ashen Rider should knick that pesky Maze.

He holds crop rotation or mulls to a maze of ith once he knows what I'm playing. If I can't kill him in the first ~5 turns he gets his engine going and it's basically all over. Tabernacle and ports are a bitch too. The last time we played I needled stage so he just started taking counters off depths the normal way. I needled depths and he burned me out with punishing fire. I couldnt push any damage through because of glacial chasm

Tidespout Tyrant isn't enough?

The game I mentioned I had a tidespout tyrant out that managed to swing twice. Paying for tabernacle + ports + wasteland left me with no mana during my turn and I used all the instants in my hand and didnt draw more.

That matchup shouldn't be that unfavorable for you. You could try Inkwell which can't be targeted by maze.

Either you gave the Land player too much time, or he just has the perfect answer everytime.

M8 I'm trying to give an example of things ddft can do that ant and tes struggle with, and your personal experiences with frequency of permanent based hate are not a refutation. Not to mention g1 flexibility is important because winning g1 means you only need to win 1 more instead of coming from behind.

I won't try to argue that ddft is the best storm deck or that it takes mystical genius of some kind to play it. It's a different and imo equally valid storm option. Basically it comes down to this:
Speed: TES > ANT > DDFT
resilience: DDFT > ANT >TES

PRETTY SIMPLE

Is TES really that much faster?

I should have been clearer. Those are relative speeds at which the decs attemptss to "go off".
TES aims to "go off" on turn 2, so it typically blows it's load faster. But sometimes going off for tes is just capping out 14 goblins, so it ends up actually killing turn 4, but

I'm getting back into magic. For the past few months I've been playing with some friends/coworkers who have let me borrow a legacy deck to play with them. The only legacy level cards left in my collection are a handful of fetch lands and a play set of stoneforge mystic because the last time I played was during original zendikar.

Given that, what is the "best" SFM deck to buy into? Money isnt a huge issue but I'm not terribly familiar with the legacy meta in general, just the 4-5 decks I've seen played among our group

Hey Veeky Forums, miracles player here. I'm kinda skeptical of playing predict in my deck. I have a lot of people telling Me it's good and a lot of people telling me to not. What's your guys personal experience? For a small reference I play U/W miracles splash black for the abyss and inquistion

DDFT gains resiliency over ANT, in the sense that it can wish for answers. Not going to argue with this.

On the other hand, speed is a different type of resiliency. ANT is far more likely to win before permenant based hate hits the table. The turn 1 kill in DDFT is extremely rare. It also loses to Predict/Grindstone/Surgical Extraction and other random cards that are marginal against other storm decks.

On top of this, DDFT might be able to spend 4 mana over 2 turns to kill a Thalia, but TES can do the same thing and still go off turn 1.

Tl;dr the resiliency DDFT has over ANT or TES is not worth the loss of speed.

Death and Taxes is my recommendation. Aggro-prison + mana denial + Stoneforge is solid.

>As reanimator what big dumb dumb can I add to my sideboard to beat lands?
Karakas