/cofd/&/wodg/&/mtag/ Chronicles of Darkness & World of Darkness & Mage: the Awakening General

>and will not be especially common

Nyet, there's absolutely loads of them. Everyone wants out of the Shadow, our side of the gauntlet has yummy yummy essence with significantly fewer predators

is damnation city good for the purpose of map making and city building?

I am struggling with making a city

By Spirit 5, well, what is there to say? All spirits treat the mage as a Rank 5 spirit, an incarna (or "Marquess/Marchioness"). Incarnae are spirit-gods, so the mage is hailed as a literal god by the spirit world. Rightfully so, too: they can use Create Spirit to make the right spirit for any given job (though it is a little unclear if this is a Lasting effect or not), and they can ingratiate themselves to every spirit around by creating an unlimited amount of Essence of a Resonance type of the mage's choosing.

With a familiar (creatable by Spirit 4's Familiar spell), the mage can create Essence for that familiar, which the mage then commands the familiar to transfer over as Mana. This helps with the Honorary Rank Attainment too, since the mage can approach any given spirit and then spend a chunk of Mana to immediately open all of its Doors.

Overall, Spirit is only slightly better at 1-3 dots than it was in Mage 1e, and that is solely because of better options for spells that do not take a "real" spirit. However, it is far better at 4-5 dots than it ever was in the previous edition, particularly since Shape Spirit is now merely a four-dot spell, and Honorary Rank is a tremendous boon when dealing with spirits.

I do believe a mage has much easier access to high Honorary Rank amongst spirits than even werewolves, no? I wonder how it must make the Uratha feel if mages with high Spirit are given more deference than most werewolves will ever be given.

>Go into the Astral and bang their horror
I'm now imagining a smug husband and wife pair of a Beast and Acanthus who lord over "lesser" supernaturals since they are both so clearly at the top of the pile and therefore justified in whatever they do.

>grind Prime to the ground
Why did I ever sign up for this shit?

The Mage 2e book does not give an especially useful view on just how "common" spirits are on the Fallen World side of the Gauntlet, but the impression I receive from page 124 of the core Chronicles of Darkness book is that spirits in the mortal world are supposed to be somewhat uncommon.

>When mortal characters encounter spirits, something has gone wrong. Some spirits are capable of using their powers through the Gauntlet and, as their self-awareness grows with power, decide to create food sources for themselves by influencing what sort of spirits and Essence will be created around them. The true culprit behind an unusual pattern of domestic murders, for example, might be a murder spirit using its abilities to escalate arguments into homicides.

>The spirits that mortal investigators encounter in the physical world are refugees and escapees, those that crossed the Gauntlet to flee the constant risk of being killed and absorbed by larger spirits. They constantly strive to maintain their Essence, desperate to avoid returning to their own world. Without an easy source of Essence, spirits must anchor themselves like ghosts, finding an object or person that reflects their nature and tying their ephemeral bodies to them. The spirit remains intangible — and is often actually “inside” the host — but is safe from starvation as long as the host generates enough Essence to feed it. By influencing the host, or humans interacting with a material host, to more closely reflect its nature, the spirit gets a ready supply of Essence and may move on to more permanent forms of possession. Many items thought of as having wills of their own, or as being cursed, actually house spirits.

Perhaps it is just my reading, but it does not seem like a mage could count on, say, any old umbrella having an active spirit to command on the spot.

Do you have Werewolf? That's the spirit book

Because they're dirty sluts who deserve to get roughed up a bit

I had just checked Werewolf 2e, and it takes a Uratha a staggering 13 dots of Renown to be treated as an Honorary Rank 4 spirit, and 19 dots to receive a "We hail you as a god" reception as an Honorary Rank 5 spirit.

Since a werewolf starts with 3 dots of Renown, and each subsequent dot costs 3 Experiences, it takes 30 XP to receive Honorary Rank 4 and 48 XP to have Honorary Rank 5. Even then, that is sinking *all* XP into Renown, which is terribly overpriced for what it does.

Assuming a mage starts with Gnosis 2 (perhaps because they spent 5 starting Merit dots on Mystery Cult Influence 5 in order to gain 10 Merit dots in exchange, which could very well be cashed in for 10 XP) and Spirit 3, it will take them only 9 XP to gain Gnosis 3 and Spirit 4, and 23 XP to have Gnosis 5 and Spirit 5. They may not have the best Mage Armor around, and they might not have invested into the writer's favorite Arcana of Fate/Time (and Mind/Space to a lesser degree), but at least they are a literal god of spiritkind.

I do, but it is proving surprisingly unhelpful in telling me how common spirits are in the mortal side of the Gauntlet.

Considering the incoming errata and edits, do you think anything is going to be done to tone down Fate and Time so they aren't considered the god Arcanum?

>"Cara mia~"
>"Mon cher~"

I do not have much faith in White Wolf/Onyx Path's ability to listen to feedback and errata, though I am at least thankful to DaveB for having acknowledged the Quantum Flux + Exceptional Luck infinite loop and seeking to correct it.

I am regretful that I had only really begun to look into Mage 2e a few days ago. If I had discovered it earlier, I might have had a chance to actually post in the official errata and FAQ threads.

It is worth noting that Augment Mind with a Rote single-handedly makes a mage near-unstoppable in the Astral Realms, since a mage can bolster their Intelligence/Presence, Wits/Manipulation, and Resolve/Composure to Herculean heights, which then become their Power, Finesse, and Resistance. They can even use One Mind, Two Thoughts' +1 and +2 Reach options to take two actions at any given time.

There is also a host of Astral-related Mind spells from the old 1e Astral Realms book to use as a basis for creative thaumaturgy.

A Mastigos (or anyone with a Legacy with Mind as a Ruling Arcanum) is a near-unstoppable juggernaut in the Astral.

Okay, let's think how we can make Matter a worthwhile Arcanum. Because I can't think of a better way to use it than conjuring gold, diamonds and heroin, and that's pretty shitty way to use it.

>grind Prime to the ground
Can you elaborate?

They took everything that made Prime good (counterspelling, dispelling, Mana vacuuming, Phantasms) and stamped on them over and over and over. Then they took the remains, mixed them with shit, threw a terrible Mage Armor on top and told us to just deal with it.

>conjuring drugs
>shitty use

But you could sell crack! To children!

>Phantasms
How do you reckon this? They moved the actually useful phantasms down one notch. How is that a nerf?

Eh? Platonic Form is 3 dots and Eidolon is five. They got rid of the 2 dot phantasmal images and required Mind 5 to make Tulpa equivalents

Matter seems to be pushed towards a direction of "Transmute objects in your sanctum away from the prying eyes of Sleepers, and then bring along your wondrous creations." A Matter mage can feasibly never suffer from Paradox or Dissonance if they do their work away from mortals, and their Matter 2 Attainment gives them longer-lasting effects.

Matter's premade spells are a mixed bag, like most other Arcana. You should, for example, discard Find the Balance entirely unless you have a very high dice pool to make the most of 9- or 8-again. On the other hand, there are some "universal" premade spells like Shaping and Transubstantiation that make good Praxes and Rotes, and Crucible's first +1 Reach effect is fantastic for granting the rote quality.

It seems that the ideal way to try to redeem Prime is to make the most of its new "truths" purview element, using it to try to solve mysteries and power through social situations. Prime 1's Pierce Deception, for example, is fantastic for any investigation or social situation, though you will surely have to use creative thaumaturgy to improvise more "truth"-based spells.

>counterspelling
Universal counterspell is Prime 2.

>dispelling
Available from Prime 1.

>Mana vacuuming
There is no spells for that in core book, but there is no reason you can't make your own.

>Phantasms
Yeah, that's a loss.

>terrible Mage Armor
How the fuck it's terrible, being one of the few armors which actually grant Armor rating?

Yeah, the illusory images is Forces now. But Platonic Form is 3 dots, but Phantasmal Weapon (the first one with equipment modifier) was Prime 4 before.

>A Matter mage can feasibly never suffer from Paradox or Dissonance
Given that there is no vulgar spells now, any mage with a head on their shoulders have no reason to suffer from Paradox or Dissonance.

pastebin.com/7sSgGVPH
New pastebin, with the links from the last thread included.

>There is no spells for that in core book, but there is no reason you can't make your own.

Book sets the guidelines, if there's none in there when they were in 1e, that's a deliberate decision to remove that aspect by the dev.

>How the fuck it's terrible, being one of the few armors which actually grant Armor rating?

Against purely magical attacks. Who the fuck uses direct damage spells when you can just materialize a car above their head, change their destiny so a bullet ricochets into their heart or turn the air into mustard gas.

mediafire.com/download/a1kpjrm41yzozkq/V20_Ghouls_&_Revenants.pdf

Dispelling, one of the most important facets of Prime in 1e, is now rather inconvenient to use due to the Reach required to make the dispel Lasting. It also has to penetrate a Withstand rating, which the enemy mage could very well raise by +2 using a Reach for Advanced Potency.

At least even ritual-cast spells can be dispelled now, since a dispel need not go through Potency.

Yes, that is my point. It is much easier for some Arcana (e.g. Fate, Mind) than others (e.g. Forces, Matter), however.

>required Mind 5 to make Tulpa equivalents

Eh. That was required in 1e too... Anything that involves creating a new mind requires Mind 5.

Of note is the fact that a properly-built changeling can be a reasonably effective "mage hunter." For now, let us set aside whether or not they can directly add their Clarity to their Withstand rating.

On one hand, changelings now have a much weaker Mask that just about any mage could see through:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyoUTRSemVyb3k1QTA/view
>Fae beings, ensorcelled mortals, and other supernaturals with mystical senses can see through the Mask.

On the other hand, any changeling with Clarity 4+ can reflexively do this:

>Kenning
>Any changeling can use a reflexive action to detect the presence of magic in the area. Roll Clarity as a dice pool. The Storyteller may make this roll on the character's behalf as a reflexive ability. At Clarity 4 or less, this requires a Willpower point and an instant action. It can no longer be done reflexively.

>If the magic is intended to hide, obfuscate, conceal, disguise, or confuse, instead add her Clarity to her dice pool in a Clash of Wills (see p. XX).

>Roll Results
>Dramatic Failure: Some lie takes shape in the character's mind, making her see something where nothing sinister exists or go oblivious to an obvious supernatural danger. Choose a Condition reflecting this temporary delusion.
>Failure: The character receives no impression of magic in the area.
>Success: With a success, the changeling gains an impression of any supernatural presences and forces that lurk in the area. For each success rolled, ask one yes or no question of the Storyteller, relating to the magic in question. She must answer correctly and provide sensory clues as to the answer.
>Exceptional Success: The changeling not only senses the presence of the occult, but sees its truest supernatural nature. She sees bloody fangs and cold hunger if she senses a vampire, a werewolf’s hybrid form, or a path of thorns leading to a fae creature's bone-littered lair.

Thus, it is not too difficult for a changeling to detect sorcery. (Continued.)

>turn the air into mustard gas.
How would Time, Fate, Space or Mind work against that?

drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyob0hVNEVhbkx4SlU/view
>Select five dots worth of Contracts from p. XX. At least two dots have to be in Contracts that feature your character’s Seeming as a favored option. If you purchase a Contract with affinity for your character’s Seeming, you get that affinity effect for free. You cannot start play with the affinity effects for other Seemings.

drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyoMlpFZWYyWUQxQWc/view
>Universal and Goblin Contracts are shaped through Wyrd as the changeling uses her fae heritage to alter the world around her, and these Contracts increase in power when her Wyrd rises. Court Contracts, on the other hand, are shaped through Mantle.

Courts are a bit too city-specific in Changeling 2e, so we are looking for a good Universal Contract that can help against mages. Our answer can be found in pages 288-289 of Dark Eras.

>Contract of Abjuration (•–•••••)
>The changeling stands forward and twists Fate and the forces of the Wyrd to obey her and be gone.
>Cost: 1 Glamour
>Dice Pool: Resolve + Occult + Wyrd vs. Contract’s activation successes
>Action: Instant

>Roll Results
>Dramatic Failure: The abjuration backfires and the changeling becomes unable to resist supernatural effects for the scene.
>Failure: The changeling fails to banish her target’s power.
>Success: The changeling successfully banishes a Contract’s effects.
>A changeling may only abjure Contracts at the first dot. Each additional dot allows the changeling to choose one of the following enhancements:

>Exorcism: The changeling may abjure an ephemeral entity (vs. Power + Resistance). All Conditions tagged by the entity within as many yards as successes rolled are resolved.
>Suffer not a Witch: The changeling may abjure the effects of other creatures of the Chronicles of Darkness.

(Continued.)

I find it hilarious how they made a big deal about wanting to move away from the whole 'listed spells are the default, creative thaumaturgy is the fall-back' thing that popped up in 1e, by moving Creative Thaumaturgy in front of the spell lists, but people just keep looking to the spell lists for what they can or can't do

>Shattered Illusions: The changeling may abjure all supernatural effects she is capable of countering within Wyrd x 10 yards. Each entity or power’s resistance is rolled individually.
>Fae Wards: The changeling may ward a single Wyrd x 10 yard area against any power she is capable of countering. The changeling and any who live in the warded location are exempt from the ward’s effects. The abilities of other entities, or powers cast by anyone else, within or targeted at the area the ward protects, triggers its defenses with a Clash of Wills. The ward survives against as many attacks or days as successes rolled, whichever is fewer.

>Exceptional Success: Allies who witness the abjuration are filled with a sense of clarity and resolve. They gain the Steadfast Condition.

>• Fairest: The Fairest command the Wyrd with great authority. They achieve an exceptional success with three successes instead of five.
>• Ogre: An Ogre’s enemies who witness the abjuration are filled with dread, and gain the Spooked Condition.
>• Elemental: An Elemental may manifest her primary element during the abjuration and gain a +3 as the natural elements reject the supernatural effect.

>Catch: The changeling invokes a formal position of authority that is recognized by the one she is abjuring.

Here we are. An Elemental changeling could feasibly start with a rather high Resolve and Occult, invest all five dots in Contract of Abjuration, and then shred apart any and all supernatural powers they can catch in their Shattered Illusions radius.

The trick here is that mages will tend to aim for only one, three, or five successes due to the way spellcasting works. This plays right into the changeling's hands, as Contract of Abjuration specifically looks for "activation successes" rather than Potency.

Could this work against Mage Armor, I wonder? It is certainly an "effect," yet it has no activation successes.

Time: Stop needing to breathe.
Space: Squeeze through the locked doors and run. Create tiny fresh-air portals inside your nostrils.

People give you crap but I love your posts, all the way back from DnD 4e days. I really enjoy exploring the rules as their own set of interact/white room instead of what you see at a day. Seeing the raw math and interactions make me happy.

Like I said, spell lists are guidelines. Taking that out means people are going to assume it's not under the purview

Can you also use mind to affect the Satiety of Beasts?

Amendment
Time: Stop your skin from interacting with the gas.
Space: Make a Ban around the affected area. Summon a contamination suit on yourself.

Couldn't you also teleport the afflicted air at the original caster?

It is worth noting that *any* Arcanum can directly bypass Defense at 3 or 4 dots. Fraying and Unraveling spells that deal direct damage never contend with a Withstand rating, whether you are using Matter 3's Windstrike, Matter 4's Piercing Earth, Spirit 3's Howl from Beyond, or Spirit 4's Shadow Scream.

Whether or not Armor applies to these is completely unclear, and it would be helpful if this was to be addressed by errata or FAQ.

>Time: Stop needing to breathe.

Better yet, Time 2's Veil of Moments renders you immune to aging, poison, disease, new Conditions, and new Tilts and forces a Clash of Wills upon any supernatural effect being placed upon the mage. This makes it a godlike spell that helps a mage live forever, and it should absolutely be taken as a Rote.

Thank you.

That is left entirely unclear, but seeing how Beasts are tied so heavily to the Astral Realms and Mind's purview includes "the Astral Realms," it seems under that Arcanum's capacities.

Time 2's Veil of Moments could also stop a Beast from progressing into new Satiety-based Conditions, although a mage will have to dismiss it every so often to let the Beast spend Experiences, so it would be unfeasible to relinquish such a spell.

I honestly don't know.

It's great for city building, actual cartography not as much.

It's just that that mortals don't encounter/interact with spirits, not like there is so few of them. They just aren't noticed until they Manifest.

Take some Life and you can become a snake while you do it! Then you don't have to give a fuck!

Yes. But the complaints were about Mage Armor.

If spirits are as common on the Fallen World side of the Gauntlet as you say, then that makes Spirit at 4 or 5 dots even better. A mage could transform any spirit lying around into the perfect agent for any given task, and that is nothing to say of the mage's reception as a greater jaggling (Honorary Rank 4) or as a literal god (Honorary Rank 5).

I still find it simply mean to Uratha that Spirit 4/5 mages have it so much easier with the spirit world than any werewolf ever will.

Sigh. That's what I get for not paying attention.

>touhou fag
>OP starts off with mage mastubation
truly this is hell

Additionally, transmuting air into mustard gas is one of the least effective ways of using Matter offensively. Let us have a look at the kind of spell it would take for that, Transubstantiation.

>Transubstantiation (Matter ••••)
>Practice: Patterning
>Primary Factor: Duration
>Suggested Rote Skills: Crafts, Empathy, Science

>The mage can transmute any inert matter into any other form of inert matter: lead into gold, water into wine, wood into chlorine gas, etc. The purity and quality of the transmuted matter is determined by the spell’s Potency: treat Potency as an equipment bonus or equivalent Resource Merit dots for a single purchase, whichever is appropriate. Both the initial substance and the transubstantiated substance must be relatively pure: Wood can be transformed into gold, but not into gold chased with silver. (The Stygian Mysteries teach that “purity” is a perceptual concept — so, for example, even though “wine” and “steel” are made up of numerous compounds, they are concrete enough as concepts to be transmuted).

>Add Life ••••: Transform matter into living things, or transform a living being into inert matter (but see p.127 for rules on permanently transforming someone with magic). Unless the mage also adds Mind •••••, any organism created is mindless, driven purely by instinct.

>+1 Reach: The mage may transmute multiple substances into a single substance or vice versa.

You would need to spend a Reach on instant action casting, and another Reach on sensory range. (You could avoid spending the Reach for sensory range by transforming it into an aimed spell, but then that allows Defense; even the Fast Spells Merit is countered by Mage Armor that allows Defense against firearms.)

Then you would have to allocate Potency into "purchasing" the mustard gas. Page 124 of the old 1e Armory tells us that chemical weapons take Resources •••••, so you are looking at a -10 dice penalty for such gas.

Wanna talk about Assamites?

I hate them

So? That doesn't make Prime Mage Armor worse than Time at avoiding a field of poison.

Me too

Even if you do succeed, what are the rules for poison in Chronicles of Darkness? Page 98 of the core book gives us some very deadly rules, but explicitly notes that they are only for noncombat situations. For combat, we have the Poisoned Tilt:

>Effect: This Tilt applies a general sense of being poisoned to a character without worrying about Toxicity during combat. For the purposes of this Tilt, a poison is either “moderate” or “grave” — a moderate poison causes one point of bashing damage per turn of combat, while a grave poison ups that to one point of lethal damage per turn. If the Storyteller cares to continue the effects of the poison outside of combat, he can apply the standard rules for handling poisons and toxins when combat is complete.

Which, for a "grave poison," is only one lethal damage per turn.

You are better off using Matter 4's Piercing Earth (spending a Reach on instant action casting and another Reach for sensory range, just as you would need to do for Transubstantiation) to directly deal lethal damage equal to Potency. For the same -10 dice penalty, you could deal 4 (dots in Matter) + 5 = 9 lethal damage. Even then, that does not make for an outstanding turn compared to some of the other madness that can be achieved as an Adept.

I am not talking about Prime Mage Armor. I am talking about how transmuting air into dangerous substances is surprisingly ineffective with Transubstantiation as written.

The part where expensive substances must be "purchased" is especially damning.

They would've been vastly improved if the entire clan was just viziers and sorcerers, imo.

You know that old saying, "familiarity breeds contempt"? That couldn't be more true with the Uratha, especially with the Forsaken. Who's going to gain regard faster amongst solipsistic little gods: the friendly foreigner with the bags of Essence or the large angry native who tries to hunt them down every other day?

Considering that White Wolf's shifting the focus clans like the Ravnos to "Vampires who hide in a culture to prey on people" instead of "Vampires who are also part of a mortal culture," we just might see that happen.

"Superheroes with fangs" is superior to personal horror in every way, shape, and form.

Anyone who disagrees with that statement is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual fuckwit and can go suck Martin Ericsson's limp dick.

Just sayin'....

I like the Ravnos, I'm probably the only one who does though.

It really is. We're in a fanged supers game right now, and it's pretty dope. Stomped all kinds of local yokel Lupines, and now we're squaring off against the Sabbat menace.

How does it feel to know that one of the richest Chinese companies in the world is going to invest in Paradox, and ergo Martin Ericsson? The future's looking pretty dim for you, Carmilla.

The Ravnos are fun save for the weird racial baggage that V20 does a good job of leaving to the wayside. Chimestry will always be Best Discipline.

Good point. It's a little absurd that anyone tolerates those awful Warriors in canon, anyway.

I'm gonna come clean. In some ways, I agree with Carmilla on some things.

While I do like 2e CofD, I agree with him on the fact that the WoD/CofD fandom can get extremely pretentious and 2edgy4u at times and that other playstyles can be explored in the White Wolf system, not just personal horror. I like personal horror too, but I also don't mind "Vampions" in small doses every now and then.

We just need to stop taking ourselves so seriously.

>Whether or not Armor applies to these is completely unclear, and it would be helpful if this was to be addressed by errata or FAQ.
Personally I think only Prime armor helps against that, and that's reason to take it.

The future may look dim, but I will respond simply by not buying Martin Ericsson's products.

Besides, I play nWoD mostly nowadays anyway, and he has little to no involvement in that.

>Book sets the guidelines
And? There is still no reason you can't siphon Mana with Patterning. Manipulating Mana is still Prime purview.

Ravnos are dope as fuck

So Acanthus with Mind and his Beast girlfriend? Huh, the Lair and all of its various assorted bits must be quite interesting.

It seems that Werewolf 2e's The Pack acknowledges the supremacy of mages over spirits:
>Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can’t. Conversely, a master of Spirit will never be part of the Hisil’s ecosystem the way a young Uratha is. Mages covet intimacy whereas Uratha covet versatility.

Granted, while a mage with Spirit 5 will "never be part of the Hisil’s ecosystem," they are hailed as literal gods, can generate unlimited quantities of Essence, and can birth new Rank 1/2 spirits on the spot, so it cannot be that bad, can it be?

This begs the question of what masters of various Arcana can do with other supernaturals' "MP" resources.
Spirit 5 can give a pack of werewolves infinite Essence, but can Death 5 create Essence for Ghosts, Plasm for sin-eaters, and Vitae for vampires?
Can Mind 5 generate Essence for goetia?
Can Fate 5 forge Glamour for fae, or would that be Mind?
Can Prime 5 make Pyros?

I am a much greater fan of the "urban fantasy superheroes" approach to the World/Chronicles of Darkness myself. Each game line has an extremely heavy focus on the special powers of any given supernatural type, which is begging for a game that emphasizes the use of such abilities to solve various problems.

I hate almost all old clans. Five clans from Requiem were a godsend.

Agreed. Requiem 1e is great. Remove the emotional deadness and it's even more awesome.

Masquerade 1e, 2e, and V20 are okay, but not as good as Requiem. Revised sucked ass and it looks like V4 will too.

Just do it like Tsukihime and it'll be fine.

>Can Prime 5 make Pyros?
Definitely no. I don't remember the source, but Prime can only hurt qashmallim, but not imitate their abilities.

So, what is the best oWoD game and why is it Mage: The Ascension 2e?

Indeed, Requiem is better than Masquerade

>Can Prime 5 make Pyros?
A ssume that you could use Forces to generate electricity or radiation that the Prommie could then convert into Pyros, but if you wanted to handle prolonged exposure to one of the created you'd need Mind or Life to counteract their Disquiet, and Space or Spirit to deal with the Wasteland.

Is it wrong that I want to run a Vampire game in the vein of the Universal Horror monster movies, and set the game in 1950's Boston?

WoD as a 50's B Movie, now that is something I'd like to see.

Based on literally nothing but ideas out of my ass:

Death Essence yes, Plasm no, or at least not directly (it's probably a mix of two different Essences, since Geists have that spirit/ghost hybrid thing implied). Vitae no, that's probably Life's jurisdiction.

Yes for Goetia essence.

Yes for Glamour, though a Mastigos could just urge the raw material of Glamour for a Changeling to harvest at a lower level.

No for Pyros, the Divine Fire doesn't seem to have a truly Supernal origin. That said, pursuing it as a Mystery might make it possible.

I'd say it's about equal, depending on the group.
I prefer the personal horror, thing, most of the time, but I can see the charm in Vampions

Isn't V20 literally just Revised, with metaplot agnosticism?

That's not wrong, that's cool and good, because you can have Not-Abbot and Costello as NPCs.

Stat me, Veeky Forums.

Requiem or Masquerade, take your pick.

Revised sucked precisely because of the metaplot. Mechanically, it's fine. But I hate that goddamn metaplot.

Nothing has a Supernal origin except for Mana/other Mage-specific things.
Pyros would probably fall under Prime and Life, possibly also others.

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 5d10+25 (52 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+14
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+5) and bite +4 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8
Feats: Alertness, Track
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 6-8 HD (Large); 9-15 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

I present to you the official anthem of Clan Tzimisce.

youtube.com/watch?v=S76CGGPqI3s

Well played. That is actually quite funny, I must admit.

Would the disquiet effect bleed through the pocket dimension spell fro Mage? It seems like the pocket realm overlaps the real world so it's possible it could or a wasteland could appear?

Then why did you butt into the conversation about Mage Armor?

Because Wraith is emo, Changeling is Gay, Vampire is a clusterfuck, and Werewolf is furry eco-terrorists. Mage wins kind of by default.

Actually thats happening in my chronicle. They had some pretty great scenes.