Any suggestions for fantasy systems where the PCs aren't superheroes like in D&D?

You've never really played D&D, have you?

>OP probably seeks a game when you are actual hero - a paragon of mankind, capable of heroic deeds beyond the capabilities of ordinary man, but still grounded in reality and having his limitations.

You just described the Fighter class's niche, which it maintains as it levels up. There's also a number of other classes that fit those requirements, including most variants of rogue and barbarian, and in general the characters are not that much stronger than common folk until the reach at least 4th level, and are only "marvel-tier demigods" at levels 15 and above, depending on edition.

Low point gurps fantasy game, rune quest 6, wfrp 1 or 2, Ars Magica as well.

I'd suggest having your dad show you his favorite Rune Quest edition if he's got the time.

Also A Song of Ice and Fire

I'd recommend Burning wheel if you want to encourage roleplaying and focus on character drama and storytelling.
If you just want to do what DnD does but in a more gritty way then I don't know. I've searched for such a thing but haven't found one that pushed the right buttons:
Runequest 6 aka mythras has a classic fantasy supplement that came out recently, might be good, but Runequest combat is just a little too fiddly and a little too swingy (always a small chance you might die unexpectedly if the enemy gets lucky).
You could try gurps dungeon fantasy, but you would have to be careful else be overwhelmed by masses of rules and stuff. not to my taste either.
You could try an OSR old-dnd clone, but they are very focused on dungeoncrawling.

Fighter's capabilities are beyond capabilities of most of iconic fighters from fiction as soon he hits two-digit number lvl, at least in 3.X. Casters are... casters and are even worse as everybody knows.
And of course you can play keeping on low lvls, but that's waste of half the game mechanics, so why bother instead of playing something that was actually tailored for low-power style?

>A Song of Ice and Fire

I've found this one to actually be particularly awful. It suffers from an almost silly level of lethality, and the influence rules are cumbersome rather than helpful.

>'commoner' has a challenge rating of 0
>'guard' has a challenge rating of 1/8
>a second level party could probably massacre an entire village without too much effort
ok

Likely because even half of a D&D is still a pretty large system. And, there's actually variants of D&D that are designed specifically for low-power play, like 3.5's e6 variant.

You're right in that there's other games to play beyond D&D, but that doesn't mean to discount what D&D can do.

Ars Magica is only about mages or you can play a warrior in it too?

Thanks for the recs guys (and others that I've missed). I'm currently running a 5e game so will probably just keep adding fairly powerful NPCs with PC levels so the players don't get too big for their boots, but I'll have a look at these for next time I'm running something.

You can play warriors as well

how is warhammer fantasy high level play?

Any OSR
Warhammer fanyasy 2nd edition
most of basicroleplaying based games(Elric, Stormbringer, Magic World,Openquest)

Try out Dungeon Crawl Classics.
Basically, you start out as a level 0 loser. Actually, you usually start out as 4 level 0 losers.
You and around 15 other PCs go through what's called a funnel scenario, where you do an adventure that is hi-lariously lethal, especially since you:
only get 1d4 for hp
have shitty weapons
roll 3d6 down the line for ability scores

Anyway, if you survive the first scenario, you hit level 1. Now mind you, you're not ever gonna become godlike, but if you make it to max level, you're gonna be a skullfuck king. Maybe.

See, there's no encounter balancing rules. You make encounters and you generally don't make them all just pure combat. PCs run into enemies that can kill them in a single hit. Your party of level 5 heroes(halfway to max) may just be able to do it! But they might not. They'll have to make that guess, because monsters have fairly nonstandard shit.

Wizards are super powerful, but they dont really get that many spells, a single chance to learn a spell every level up and its randomly chosen. Wizards need to go on quests to learn new and better spells. There's no consulting the PHB for new spells after leveling up. No no no.

Clerics get spells automatically- ha ha just kidding, being a cleric is hard. you have to act within your alignment, and suck your god's dick and spread his ideaology constantly. you cant even heal people from a different alignment without annoying them. If you annoy them too much they might just explode you.

So it's a cool high lethality, low power level system.

Also, the modules released for it are amazing and also very frequent in their release - beautiful little 10 dollar 25 page adventures, they even have a couple boxed set adventures which give you little hex crawls! only issue is you need specialized dice to play it. you need:

d3
d4
dd6
d7
d8
d10
d12
d14
d16
d24 and d30

Please don't play this piece of trash.

Listen to your dad OP or as stated WHFRP 2

what is bad with it?

Dungeon Crawl Classics.

>someone on Veeky Forums actually mentions Harnmaster
What is this sorcery?! Also good taste user.

Harnmaster is very good for a more grounded-in-reality play and I like the combat system a lot, though I can see how it's not for everyone. I can still very much recommend it. Just don't get too attached to your characters if you want to play any kind of dungeon crawly adventure using it. It works better for long games with a lot of in-game downtime.

GURPS is fantastic for realistic characters and such, abd I thing it's similar to RuneQuest - at least in the combat loop.

>dd6

explain

It's an overproduced retroclone with retarded, unnecessary mechanics and lelrandumb rules that adds nothing worth keeping onto the OSR formula.

Just play Basic or a more faithful retroclone

Not that guy, but it's kind of like Hackmaster lite. It's complicated, uses weird-ass dice just for the hell of it, it has table upon table that you roll on for stuff. (For example, every single spell has a table you roll on that adjusts its effects. Want to cast a spell? Crack open the book.)
Fans often suggest that you can work around these problems by having everyone at the table install a DCC app on their phone and use that at the table, but fuck having phones at the table.

Wow, when I rewrote that sentence, the phrase "at the table" just kind of multiplied.

When you're at the table, watch that shit at the table bro

It must be something to do with DCC. Because even when they were writing it, the number of "tables" kept growing.

It's not even a retroclone, and it was never designed to be.

you're overblowing the problem, considering how little spellcasting there is in DCC.

its a great system and all I've heard is:

"I haven't read the rulebook"

and

"I haven't played this game."

There are resources online to print every spell's chart. It is not that hard to have a wizard compile a list and have it in front of him when he casts.

The dice are used in lieu of annoying modifiers. You don't need to use new dice, you just ignore things outside of the expected range.

Your 'issues' are features of the system.

have you ever played the original DnD games, nigger? It's literally tables: the rolling by white wolf

Wow, having to print off extra fucking sheets to even play the game properly. What a great fucking system, you fucking faggot.

Not that guy, but I print out the character class section for each of my players so we don't need to pass around a rulebook every time someone levels up.

that's not necessary. With DCC, it fucking IS. It's a shit system. Stop posting. Go back to the goodman games forum or RPG.net you stupid worthless cumbucket.

Not Basic, the game that DCC emulates. At least, not comparatively (as opposed to the AD&D 2e tables: the tabling)

Can you stop yelling insults over a system you haven't even played?

Did the designer molest you, dude?

It gets pretty mechanical. Assuming your characters reach high levels they're probably not going to have a lot of fate points to manipulate the luck of the dice. Also the heavy combat classes have 3 attacks but most people can only have two reactions. Crits will hurt, and kill all but the tankiest of characters, and that may be the only way to hurt those characters (10 DR isnt uncommon at high levels). Impact is an amazing mechanic, and ranged attacks cant be dodged. High level melee fights can be really monotonous, hit, dodge, hit, parry, miss. A lot of the other options like strike to stun or disarm arnt great or dont have talents that facilitate or enhance them. Then on to the next round. Magic relies on what color you chose, your GM can always give you better spells, because some of them have spells way too situational/straight useless. Ranged is solid, because it can't be dodged, but you'll get fucked if you dont have a pistol and someone charges you. I think the game could use some houserules. Thankfully the rolls happen fast, and there isnt a ton of crunch. I also recommend you do initiative with 1d10+Agility bonus, less counting that way.

Seriously what the fuck is dd6?

Seriously! I mean, I don't care for DCC, but damn, this guy's got problems.

He just accidentally typed d twice.

RuneQuest 6 is legitimately one of the best systems made.

I want this system to fucking die. I am so sick of these fucking nigger-promoting, meme-tier shit systems like nUmenera and DCC. have you heard them talk? "no white males on the cover pls" like holy fucking shit who cares

fucking sjws in my hobby

GURPS motherfucker

What archaic mechanics or sacred cows were left in RuneQuest 6?

I have a sneaking feeling the answer is going to be bullshit...

i will play gurps if you give me exactly the rules i need

This is exactly the problem with GURPS. "Rules for everything" but you either have to read it all to know what to crib or consult a guru.

TL4, basic set only.
For low fantasy, no supernatural or exotic advantages
Add odder ones for a higher power level
Done.

>you either have to read it all to know what to crib or consult a guru.
So learn the system or get taught?
Yeah. Wow. That's so uncommon. So out if this world. Having to learn a new game...

Savage Worlds. Technically, the Wild Card\Extras distinction makes your heroes and villains larger than life compared to a average people, but only in that they get one reroll on most checks and they can take more of a beating. There are setting rules for this, or you can just make EVERYONE a Wild Card.

I would say because of its pulp roots, it's also very suited to low key action, though it does suit supers if you're ever in the mood and whimsical hijinks are a must for Savage Worlds games.

Most games aren't dozens upon dozens of splats and instead actually do a specific thing well.

Haha
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. The splats are optional (unlike dnd). Everything they provide is in the core books already. Hell, most of the 3e ones are just settings, not mechanics.

GURPS sourcebooks are rich resources for setting craft or alterations to mechanics. If you try to use one or more in their entirety for your game, you're gonna have a bad time.

Your dad already gave you some of the best advice to be had. Runequest 6 is very good for gritty low fantasy. WHFRP is another option, but it's much more tied to the Warhammer fluff (although you could run it in anything that's roughly analogous to 16th century HRE). World of Darkness is another possibility if you're playing mere mortals.

Also superhero D&D only applies to 3.x onward, really (maybe AD&D 2nd as well after a certain point). OD&D, Moldvay/Mentzer B/X, and Rules Cyclopedia are all pretty dangerous, as are all the retroclones based on them.

What you're asking for here still fits within the pattern of old-school D&D, and even 3.x and 5e depending on how draconian the DM is. A pack of orcs is pretty lethal even if they do have just d4 hp - the PCs don't have that much either.

>delightful hyperbole comic
Saved.jpeg

Its not classic fantasy, but L5R does a pretty good job with making the PC's feel like just another character in the world. Usually felt by dying in like 2 hits.

>Wow, having to print off extra fucking sheets to even play the game properly. What a great fucking system, you fucking faggot.

You need to print out shit for every D&D edition unless you are autism-tier adept with the rules as well, retard. Especially if you are a wizard.

Stop being a shithead just because people like what you don't.

WoD fantasy stuff from mirrors does it pretty well

Well, that or heroic mortals exalted

LOTFP

I never actually played it or even gave it a honest read, I have PDF of the corebook, but after seeing that it is basically table:the tabling I gave up with reading it as a whole. I'm not into games THAT crunchy.
But it has merit of being very helpful in worldbuilding, as it presents very nice descriptions of low tech, early medieval societies with enough believability and depth to be cool, without going full historical autism on the other hand.
And low tech/early medieval fantasy is best fantasy. Fantasy for me is stuff of forgotten legends where the world was mostly unknown and full of secrets for its inhabitants, which well developed societies of late medieval, or even early renaissance (most fantasy games are this actually, sans the gunpowder) already past through. It is way easier to imagine Sigurd, Beowulf, or even Lancelot in a hauberk than gothic full plate for me

Original D&D, Basic D&D, Runequest 2, Runequest 6 and Basic Roleplaying to name a few.

The new one is pretty good desu, and you can take the bits you like from other brp and put them in it to make it cooler if you want.

>DCC
>SJW
Never even saw the slightest hint of that.

>CR
>as a measure of anything in a system with bounded accuracy
>and then doesn't even incorporate the CR multipliers from encounter size, for AN ENTIRE VILLAGE

I mean, there's dense, which is the first two lines in a vacuum, and there's you, which is well past the point of willful ignorance.

WHFRP 2e all the way. Warhammer lets you play the underdog that challenges and against all odds beats the big bad by fate or dies a gruesome death.
And you can have a big variety of underdog characters with 60 basic careers in the basic rules. Play peasants, craftmen, fishermen, charcoal burner or rat catchers with small (but viscious) dogs.
The setting is awesome but if you dont like it just refluff the magic and change the divine spell lists and you are good to go.

I think that was just some kind of postmodern trolling attempt.

I was going to call OP a retard, but your post just out-tarded the rest of the board.

OP, check out RQ6. It is glorantha-free. Works well and is very fun to play.

>Runequest is archaic.
Suggests D&D. If there's a huge troll, then it's you user.

Why 2e rather than 3e? Not an edition war faggot, I'm ignorant of the system and would like to know more.

It's simpler to use and cheaper to get into.

3e is a deeper, more interesting game but it's also a very different game so it was poorly received by the existing fanbase.

This.

None of the Warhammer systems are very good. 1E was even noted later by the authors to be shaky on release. 2E is better but still not great. 3E is a fucking monstrosity. The first two are just bad hacks of Runequest. I would run WFRP with RQ6 as your best bet.

I'd also argue that feeling like "superheroes" is just a matter of tone, which the GM can easily customise just by the way he builds the scenario.

You can play 4th edition DnD as a grimdark slog just by ensuring the PCs face difficult encounters with, say, orcs or humans that slightly outlevel them and maybe toning down the availability of treasure and magic items. You can also play full-on fantasy superheroes where they punch dragons and demon kings in the face and mechanically it'll be exactly the same game.

>3e is a deeper, more interesting game
It's essentially a shitty boardgame, which is why it's the first edition to more or less flop.
Even aside from the ruleset issues they were charging a ton for the core game that only supported 3 players by default and sold their expensive dice separately.

"Monstrosity" is a bit harsh, they were trying a lot of new ideas and seeing what worked. I would like to see a new WFRP from FFG that builds on the refined system they used in the Star Wars games.

Well, I can't disagree there. I wish Star Wars had been the first one and WFRP the second so it could have benefited from the years of actual play that led to the refinement.

>AD&D 2e
AD&D 2e is AD&D - Now with Fewer Tables!. AD&D 1e is Table Edition.

Fuck that, FFG's Star Wars games are only good on paper. Unless you like having a PC literally fall over at every combat encounter and struggle to do anything but their very specific specialization.

>I would run WFRP with RQ6 as your best bet.
I did once and it was awesome. Let me tell you, a simple bloodletter becomes murder incarnate when statted in RQ6. It was also fun just watching my players running around in Altdorf trying to figure out that the man behind the man of the whole illegal warpstone operation in fact is their host.

Fun times where had, and Phobia(blood) is... an interesting choice in a WFRP game.

I'd recommend Beyond the Wall, it really captures the feeling of the PCs being human heroes rather than superhuman murderhobos

1st Edition really has tables for everything.

Someone should make a game like this and get a license from Red Hook for a Darkest Dungeon TTRPG.

A man can dream...

Because I like the percentile dice system and the mechanics (insanity, dice check difficulties...) of 2e.
I havent played 3e but the star wars game and in my opinion a system with fancy dice and narrative outcomes fit star wars but not the grum perilous world of warhammer. There i like cold and definite numbers.

Your dad is right.

Rune Quest is baller as fuck.

Lose your hand in the first combat, become a magical barbarian warlord anyway.

But user I actually played a game of V:TM where I was a regular guy among vampires, I had fun.

>someone forgot to put any points in any combat skill whatsoever or did something retarded like try to dual-wield when they just about know which end of a blaster goes towards the enemy

I would do this straight away, but my group is 'tired of low fantasy' ...pussies!!

Savage Worlds is good if you want a pulpy action feel. Each hit could get lucky and kill you, trying to take on multiple enemies in melee is more often than not suicide, you actually have to contend with how heavy weaponry and body armour is far more than in D&D.
Also ranged attacks are typically better than close quarters, if you see the town guard coming with crossbows for your edgelord thief/assassin buddy you'd better fucking duck

The core issue with 3rd is not the special dice, it's the chits and cards and not having enough table space to hold everything. Players need 3 different components to make up their 'character sheet' and it's just too much to set up, too much to put away in the box and a huge mess at the table.

>a system with fancy dice and narrative outcomes fit star wars but not the grum perilous world of warhamme

Why?

Really, why does having multiple possible outcomes for a given action suit a space opera and not dark fantasy?

>Ars Magica

A mage fresh out of apprenticeship will fuck up mortals like nobody's business though.

A mage that has some experience under his belt can raze cities.

Or maybe you mean as playing just the normal characters?

>Play dirt farmers upset by the ever increasing taxes of the noblemen
>Shittalking the nobles together with your farmer brethren
>Travel to the nearest town riling up the people in taverns about these god damn taxes
>Unrest keeps increasing thanks to your efforts
>The nobles hang supporters to dissuade the rebellion
>Rise up against the tyranny with pitchforks and torches

Sounds fun to me.