Because it was cheap, Burzum made some good songs, and I have a penchant for owning bad meme games.
But even though I know Veeky Forums hates this game, oddly enough every review I saw on YouTube and Amazon was very positive.
Is there actually any merit to this game at all, Veeky Forums?
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I know nothing of this game. Can someone explain this apparent 'shit' game?
So, a while ago a Norwegian metal musician burned a church down and murdered his friend. He was also a huge racist, though that may or may not have been a factor in the church-burning and friend-murdering.
Myfarog is the game he made in prison. It is, in a sense, the toilet wine of RPGs. As the maker is a notorious racist and, as mentioned before, murder-arsonist, it's kind of hard to uncouple the art from the artist for a lot of people.
To be fair, the rpg would be racist and rediculous pagan anti-historical and anti-christian garbage regardless of whether you could seperate it from varg or not, because that's how he wrote it
I'm led to believe that it's a competent D&D retroclone, but nothing special. There isn't much to make it jump out from other, similar games, but it isn't the new FATAL, which a lot of people seemed to expect.
....well then
Also, the entire fucking thing is written in Papyrus in gold font on white paper. Which should be a hanging crime all by itself, frankly.
It's not just uncoupling the two, it pushes his pagan neo-Nazi worldview pretty hard. That's not the real problem from the reviews I've read though. I mean, Gygax had some weird fucking views on morality and that doesn't taint D&D for me. The general impression that I have is that it's a mediocre-at-best system that does absolutely nothing new or interesting and isn't well put together in the first place
It does talk about "playing according to your own European nature", so it is basically all about nationalist bullshit, yeah.
I mean, I don't particularly mind games being used to explore concepts and ideas (I'm stoked for Red Markets, a game about economics and zombies), so a game that's "about" concepts of national, tribal and personal identities, and how those might clash or compliment each other, okay, sure. And yeah, I've heard the game is pretty good as a game whether or not it's the game to explore those ideas of nation/tribe/personal identity. The problem is that because it's out there as "the racist arson-murderer's game" that I maybe don't wanna be associated with that guy.
Like I say, uncoupling the art from the artist can be tricky sometimes.
>The problem is that because it's out there as "the racist arson-murderer's game" that I maybe don't wanna be associated with that guy.
pussy
It's actually a retro-clone of Middle Earth Roleplaying. Charts. Metric fuck-ton of charts.
Was your primary motivation in showing us this game to signal your anti-racist virtue to us?
Someone asked why the game was shit, and all you could do was screech "waaacist!"
Indeed.
if you like modifying your swimming roll based on how much wind there is of 5+ different kinds of wind, you might dig it.
There's one or two interesting ideas. The notion of the performance skill mechanically currying favor of the gods based on the strength of your performance is a cool idea. You could base an entire game around that.
I think that bothers me significantly more than anything else I've heard in this thread
>Gygax had some weird fucking views on morality
Hoo boy you've got that right.
Not OP, sorry.
I don't recall the other guy being his friend, but then, I've never been well versed on this dude.
Other than hearing about the church-burning and the bit in that metal documentary.
I bet your trophy case is filled with participation ribbons isn't it, faggot
>You could base an entire game around that.
You know, you're actually right. It still doesn't seem like a strong enough concept to salvage the system as a whole, though
It was self-defense (probable fact)
Most of the work on MYFAROG was completed after prison
And his racist viewpoint had absolutely nothing directly to do with the arsons or the Euronymous incident.
I'm interested in the system because of the research he allegedly did to redefine a traditional combat system. I haven't played it but I'm interested.
I'm not /pol/, but I can deal with over the top racialist rhetoric in my RPGs. I think it's sort of endearing.
>redefine a traditional combat system
if by "redefine" you mean " make it almost fucking unbearable with charts for every fucking thing, including aging by the second." then yes its "redefine."
play Yggdrasil or Fate of the Norns, because it wasn't made by an Asshole.
>want to play jew
>no hand rubbing table
Dropped
He listed more than one issue, and all you could do was type out "waaacist" with a straight face?
Warning. European means scandi.
>gloating about vain accomplishments
>not having your rewards / throphies out of sight, in drawers etc
>living a life of sin
not him but
>murder-arsonist mentions: 2
>racist mentions: 2
well now looks like he listed a whole one (1) additional issue, you are technically correct but pedantic as fuck
The dead dude was stabbed like 20 times. Generally, that's not how self-defense works.
>Egalitarianism means uniformity in results/being, not that we should strive to give equal initial opportunities to people.
Dude.
How edgy is the actually game?
It would be hilarious if it stressed importance of tolerance and friendship in the most ernest Sunday school fashion possible.
>How edgy is the actually game?
It's a fantasy heartbreaker filtered through the lens of a Vikingboo who's never played anything other than the most mainstream of RPGs. The design philosophy is "random tables = realism".
>Society should value individual accomplishment
The weird thing is none of his views were that really controversial or anything. Just implemented in a incredibly strange manner.
Hell I don't even think he was trying to make a statement or anything. I just think he drink the Kool-Aid a bit trying to condense concepts of good and evil into a codified playable game format.
So it doesn't even play entertaingly badly like Fatal and its bizarre obsession with enormous bell curves, random "Offensive humor is a thing, therfore offensive = funny" and rape? Pity.
A quick look at what wikipedia thinks egalitarianism is and I don't see that as excluding valuing individual accomplishments, rather it appears to be about not denying people the chance to accomplish things, or dismissing what someone does accomplish, based on their socioeconomic status, gender, race, etc.
So unless whoever wrote that forum post had found a radically different take on the philosophy, it does say somethign pretty fucked up. Namely that we should discriminate. That we should deny people a fair chance. That we should ignore the achievements of those who aren't in the pre-approved achievers group.
>Harrison Bergeron
>weird
At least post his "murdering babies is Lawful Good" shit or something.
No, it's mostly "white people get +2 to being honorable, brown people get +2 to throwing spears, notJews get +2 to appraisal checks" kind of racism, not the funny kind.
MYFAROG is just Kristian Vikernes sperging out entierly with his delusions of history and the world. He seems convinced that ancient germanic noblemen were paragons of flawless virtue and that only poorfags starts conflicts in germanic society. He also goes by the logic that all monotheistic desert religons are actively trying to undermine the germanic people and that they are trying to kill the germanic gods out of malice. It's confirmation bias the setting and the system is just laughable. The worst part is that he also designed MYFAROG as a teaching tool for his son.
>people hating on based Varg
He was right desu
He used a tiny folding knife and the dude tried to murder him first. The tiny knife thing convinced me it was self defense, if Varg set out to murder him then he had literally dozens of better weapons available to use besides that thing.
Varg even complained about it, he said that the little pen knife was really hard to use and that if he had wanted to kill the guy he would have used a real knife or one of the many weapons lying around the guys house.
Also: Actual IRL tested combat rules, woooohoo!
Because he's like the other Nordic shitheas who couldn't design a game to save his life.
The other stuff is just icing on the shit cake.
People always forget that orcs in that version of D&D were ALWAYS evil. Just like demons and devils.
Just like people forget that the paladin's mount was a god given spirit of good that some guy murdered out of spite, so yeah, the paladin would be honor bound to kill the motherfucker or fall for allowing his god's servant to be murdered.
It's just so much easier to take things out of context than it is to actually be bothered to think before hating internet quotes.
Didn't he say that the guy fell through some plate glass which caused all the wounds?
There's also the matter of the large amount of ordinance seized from him after his arrest. That's another matter, but Varg wasn't exactly innocent and sinless no matter how strangely kawaii he is.
>So unless whoever wrote that forum post
That would be E. Gary Gygax, the original creator of Dungeons & Dragons alongside Dave Arneson.
I don't disagree with your point, by the way, I'm just keeping you informed.
Technically I think he said that ENSLAVING (orc) babies is Lawful Good, but also probably wasted effort because orcs are always and can never be anything other than Evil.
Which I dislike. Note I say "dislike", not "disagree with". In his games Gary can run his orcs however he likes, but in MY games, the world is a bit more complicated than that.
Orc being ALWAYS EVIL and the uncomfortable racist undertones that brings is itself part of the weirdness.
>Orc being ALWAYS EVIL and the uncomfortable racist undertones that brings
Which Tolkien himself noticed and got bugged by, partially because of his Catholic sensibilities telling him inborn, unforgivable sin isn't/shouldn't be a thing. He just died before he could successfully lawyer his way into a solution.
ORCS DINDU NUFFIN
NEED MO MUNNY FO DEM PROGRAMS
That put me in mind of the book "Krampus" some how. Both Krampus and Santa are actually Norse deities/spiritual entities in that, and Krampus is posed as the more legitimate one.
Santa is a sell out who spitefully sided with encroaching outsiders/Judeo Christian God, and has an unpleasant alchemy lab where he distills the magical essence of countless creatures he has captured and killed into stuff he uses in his job.
He's also surprisingly tough and mean in a fight and virtually unstoppable. He is a veritable engine of destruction who slings around a viking pattern broadsword like it's not even there because he's pretty jacked.
Granted, Krampus isn't exactly nice either, but he's authentic and if he's fucking you over you probably deserve it somehow. Of course, his mother is Hel IIRC, so he wouldn't be nice. Being chained in a cave for centuries and being unable to die also kind of soured his disposition, although when he's recovered he's still a dick. (still the story takes place over a short period, so he might still be grouchy. But I think that's not the only thing. He really is a dick, but a dick with a purpose that is arguably just. The people he really fucks over in the story deserve it because they are worse than him OR Santa. By huge margins.)
It's too ideologically soaked to really be good. Whenever the political ideology of a game starts to bleed into the actual mechanics of a game, it starts being unplayable.
I sort of agree with the guy in terms of ethnic nationalism, though I think he's a bit too romantic about nordic paganism. Nobody forced the conversions to Christianity, they happened because Christianity actually offered something to the average, decent person besides a theoretical afterlife full of murderers, serial killers and everyone else who would probably end up in Hell in the Christian theology. It's not hard to see why the movement happened.
But there's a difference between agreeing with someone politically and wanting to see those politics bleed to the surface in everything you do. That's how you can identify a radical, there's a really great political cartoon from somewhere, it shows these three KKK guys standing around, and they start talking about "Bob." Bob only ever seems to care about niggers.
"Well, that's sort of the point, isn't it?" one of the other Klansmen says.
"Well sure, but not EVERYTHING is about niggers, sometimes I want to watch a football game, sometimes I want to go driving, I have a life outside of this hood, but all Bob can ever say is-"
At this moment (presumably) Bob walks up and says "Hey guys, how 'bout them fuckin Niggers right?" and everyone groans.
That's what this comes off as. The game takes time out of listing off actual rules to remind you not to trust the Jews. Come on Varg, we get it, the kikes subverted your culture, but this is the middle of the Sailing skill.
>Nobody forced the conversions to Christianity
But they did
Read about St Boniface and King Radboud of the Frisians for examples. There is even a case of priest stealing the children of people on the Orkney Isles until they converted.
Perhaps on some scale, but it was not, as it is often depicted, a gigantic Spanish-style purge of all nonbelievers. If anything enforcement of Christianity seems lukewarm at best in the North for the entire medieval period.
>ITT: WAAAAAAGH PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS TO ME
This is why Reddit and Tumblr are considered cancer.
inb4 bait
What? This thread has been extremely civil and reasoned, by Veeky Forums standards. Did you even read the thread, friend?
>If anything enforcement of Christianity seems lukewarm at best in the North for the entire medieval period.
Because Paganism among the peasantry went underground, but the witch hunts were basically persecution of those practising the old religion.
It's not the same in all countries, for example in England a lot of kingdoms accepted it pretty willingly but then regressed back to paganism then went back. However in Germanic Europe many tribes were threatened under force of the Frankish Empire to convert or else their entire tribe would be wiped out.
The Teutonic knights forcibly converted the Baltic kingdoms in later centuries by crusade.
And the Christians converted the Norse through economic subversion and bribery, refusing to trade with them unless they converted. The greedy kings of the norse people converted officially and then forced it on the people.
Although among the peasantry it lingered for a very long time, the overall nature of the Christian conversion in Europe was mostly by coercion, with bribery at best and genocide at worst to achieve this goal.
Why should any society give a fuck about individual accomplishments, when individual accomplishments are always smaller and less meaningful than collective accomplishments?
calm down
Careful, user, you're sounding dangerously communist. You may need 10,000 CCs of FREEDOM, delivered via drone strike. Because self-determination is the right of all human beings, unless they self-determine to be kebab or commie or anti-American in any way.
>Careful, user, you're sounding dangerously communist.
>friendly reminder that christianity also has the same basic tenant of working together for a common goal.
Catholic represent.
>I'm stoked for Red Markets,
Yeah yeah boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
But Christianity has never denied that individual people are capable of doing immense good on their own, or at the least directing large numbers of people to do good.
Strip away the fine details, for example, and the entire story of Moses and the Exodus is basically just that one man, if his faith in God is strong enough, can do anything.
It make a distinction between a light breeze, slight wind and no wind on a chart for how this affects swimming with actual different modifiers.
There is practically a chart for everything, all of which have utterly pointless filler options that take up most of each chart.
Sounds like he made a retarded version of GURPS.
Denmark seems have mostly converted to Christianity to avoid any justified invasions by contemporary irate Germans.
Hell, most conflicts in central Europe seems to come from germans. They just seem to have a higher sperg count than other regions.
It's more like another OSR game from another norsemen who tries too hard to make something different and fails at what makes a OSR game so nice.
Another Scandinavian setting that is pretty cool is Trudvang. Unlike MUHFAROG it's not about contemporary political agendas, but instead it's based on Norse mythology, folklore, paganism and the mysteries of the wild untamed forests.
That one I was interested in for along time now.
What was the name of the Sweedish D&D game? It's english translation was demons and dragons or something?
Also another one I heard good things about was Ydrassigll, which was published by Cubicle 7, who does good historical fantasy settings.
>running a viking RPG
>it's not Fate of the Norns
It's like you hate glory
It's called Drakar och Demoner in Sweden. They are putting out an english translation of it, or they have already gotten there. I think Riotminds, the studio has decided to go with the brand Trudvang Chronicles. They are also decided to relaunch Drakar och Demoner as the basic generic it started out as in the mid 1980's. Mostly because they realised the average consumer doesn't want to get into RPG's anymore because the core books looks like university level study books with too many rules to learn.
>It is, in a sense, the toilet wine of RPGs
kek'd. I tip my skull filled with flowers to you.
>Mostly because they realised the average consumer doesn't want to get into RPG's anymore because the core books looks like university level study books with too many rules to learn
Ain't that the truth, though they are cheaper than the average textbook.
If I had a choice again for something more old school rather than Nordic in tone games, my first instinct is to go to Labrynth Lord, if only the guys behind are based as hell.
Just read the first few pages of Mutant Future, their Not!Gamma World, and see what I mean.
>if his faith in God is strong enough, can do anything.
Because he was predetermined to. It had nothing to do with his actual ability to lead.
Trudvang is not a straight adaptation of Norse mythology, but it's rather inspired by it. Vikings is also not the major focus of the setting. There are at least four major human cultures.
There are the obligatory Norsemen/Vikings at the east side of the continent. Their pantheons are very similar to the ones from Norse mythology and they are very big on blood sacrifices.
Then there are the 7'th - 9'th century fantasy-Christian in the west. Their culture is germanic with a knightly ruling class that serges under the church.
There are Celts that are big on hero worshipping legends in the Middle of the continent. They sort of serve as a barier between the west and the east cultures that are at odds with eachother.
Last are the raiding barbaric tribes in the north. They have yet to develop any significant civilisation that thrives on a functional economy like the other three cultures. They also smell terrible because they substitute clothes by rubbing themselves with blubber to protect themselves against the cold.
Yeah, Labyrinth Lord is a pretty cool dungeon crawler. What Riotminds are doing with Drakar och Demoner is basically bringing back the nostalgic old school fantasy that was popularised in the 1980's in Sweden. They want a product that they can sell in bookstores that will appeal to old and new players.
WE
>Veeky Forums
>not cancer
bruh
Fuck off, Jesus fucking Christ. Even when you guys have a point, you're still retarded.
And to answer your inane mouth-noise, yes; even if it's solid game design, it's still morally repugnant.
No. In this instance, he is 100%, completely right and you're an idiot for not seeing what a worthless faggot you are.
Now go cry, Bitch.
What's wrong with believing that?
;orality changes every year and country, basing somrthing on it isn't very smart desu. Or would you hang fags bevause is moral in iran?
It's a game about killing shit.
It's simpler that way.
>tfw nobody ever talks about this
So much for being the light of trento and the foremost world explorers spain and portugal...
That anger you feel is dissonance, because you think people who politically disagree are evil, yet see I still have a point, you produce flustered comments like this.
Almost every post about why the game is 'shit' have to do with people not liking the creator wanting to show off how 'hip' they are by saying the game must be a tainted work of evil by association.
Basically this. Much as people want the crazy varg nazi metal aryan game to be incomprehensible gibberish, most mechanical critiques of Myfarog could equally be applied to Shadowrun 5e.
Because it's nuts.
>why is it wrong?
>because it is
Come on now user
His politics is so ingrained into the game that it is almost impossible to critique it without it being brought up in some way or another.
I mean it's a very 20th century idea that many in America believed in.
I would guess it would not make sense in a 21st century mindset, but it still is a valid idea.
Bringing up an critiquing the politics in games is fine, see how anons here critique new WoD Changling shit? When all you do is circumnavigate why the game is shit by saying "he's bad and it's bad by proxy," what you have is a narrative, not an argument.
So what you're saying is that the game literally triggers you.
>Actual IRL tested combat rules, woooohoo!
SKR plz go
Friendly reminder that there is nothing wrong with ethnic nationalism. That all peoples have the right to self-determination and to celebrate their own heritage and culture in their own ancestral lands among others who share said heritage and culture.
You're seeing paganism as a modern organized religion, with the same logic of "no other gods" that christianity basically invented. Pagans had no concept of "this is the true faith", and no concept of faith unity. Hell, they weren't even completely celtic/germanic anymore, since they had absorbed a lot of Roman religion.
Even after "conversion", you could very easily go to Mass every sunday and still believe the Old Gods lived in the sacred woods or something. Until the Reform hit in the 16th century and Europe as a whole became much more narrowminded. syncretism was the rule and not the exception. The main power of christianity is that it had the organization and centralization to declare itself the one true faith religion and all the rest superstitions and come off the syncretism game on top.
About forceful conversion, you're forgetting that religion and politics were the same in the period. Charlemagne was Holy Roman Emperor, temporal authority of all christianity. The conquest of the Saxons was not a crusade, it was a prolonged war between Franks and Saxons, the main objective being their political vassalage and the end of saxon raids. Conversion was just a mean to an end, since in becoming christian they were automatically subjecting themselves to the Emperor of christianity.
In Scandinavia, the kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden were starting to coalesce, and the kings wanted something to keep them stable. What could be more stable than good old feudal society and law? But feudalism was just so full of christian values that you had to either adopt the foreign faith or reform the norse religion to be less warlike and more stable.
Teutonics were jerks, but the Baltic Crusades happened 200 years after the conversion of Scandinavia and 400 years after the convertion of germany, and christianity had became much more militarized as a result of shocks with Islam in the south and Tengriism in the east.
You speak like a filthy calvinist.
Are you a heretic, user?
It wasn't his friend, it was an ex-workmate and they hated each other. It's hard to believe a criminal, but Varg claimed that Euronymous wanted him dead too.
Right, but he used Papyrus as the typeface.
He's right. We aren't born equally and you'd be foolish to think that a society based solely around egalitarian principles would flourish.
I generally don't like the game because of how many useless charts there is in the book halts the game from being played, it's an old school game that took the one thing from old school games that didn't need to be brought up.
If I wanted old school games, there are better games out there to play.
If you want to play it, go ahead, I'm not telling you to not, I'm just saying I don't like it, for those reasons alone.
He is still a shit, imo, but that doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of the game at hand.
Again, most people's immediate complaint about this game is that it was literally made by Hitler and le papyrus instead of the actual mechanics.
They just wanted to be relevant.
Nice meme video but Franks were germanic
I've been in Iran and they claim that only pedos are hanged and that the country is a gay paradise because old farts will reproach you for going out with random girls but there's no problem if you're just hanging with your bro.
It can only be half-true, of course, but makes it very clear that "hanging fags" is not "moral in Iran".
It seems likely that they can tack on enough semi-related "moral" crimes if they wanted to get someone executed for being gay.
I don't know if they do, but it wouldn't be difficult.
