How do you play a chaotic neutral character without succumbing to the "LOLSORANDOM" and Chaotic stupid cliches?

Someone who is undisciplined, unprincipled, and doesn't go out of their way to help or hurt people.

But I know this comment will be ignored so keep posting memes I guess.

>Tyler
>Good
It's like you didn't even pay attention when watching the movie.

I would amend that to "Doesn't go out of his way to help people he doesn't like, or hurt people he doesn't dislike". Unless you make an impression one way or another or he needs something from you, he won't do anything.

I don't understand why people have such a problem with this concept.

Basically, do what you want to do.
1. Don't do something just because it would be funny, 19/20 times it's only funny to you.
2. Follow laws only when they suit you or you'd really rather not deal with the consequences.
3. Don't do shit that would get you in trouble in front of the authorities and or your party members. Do it while nobody's looking.
4. Have a life goal, only step on people to get closer to it if it's the easiest way.
5. If you feel like helping someone, do it, if you don't, fuck em.
6. If something would cause another person to remark, "That's stupid." or something along those lines, stop and think about what you're doing for a minute.

All of this is subjective to the situation at hand, interpret this advice loosely.

I don't think I should have to say this, but don't be edgy, don't do things for the LOLs, don't do things just to piss someone off, don't be retarded, don't be thin skinned, and don't hold grudges.

I'm not sure if this completely accurate to the alignment, but I had an idea for a CN Monk. Basically, he believes that the universe is just cycles of change, and the people who live in it are its agents. So everywhere he goes he changes something. It could be as simple as flipping a bucket over to kicking out some local thugs. All that matters is something changes. He also despises the undead due to their very nature disrupting the natural cycle of life and death

>cooks
>chaotic neutral

Gordanramsymakeskidscry.gif

Forgot image like a silly willy

I view it as your character is such a tiny cog in such a vast machine that nothing you ever do will have any measureable effect outside of your immediate area.

A do what needs to be done without going to extremes.

Just play them as someone who tries to live their life the way they want to without taking into consideration society at large. Unless your character wants to be a randumb asshole for some reason he should still be a reasonable enough guy.

Interestingly I've heard it said that chaotic neutral is the hardest alignment to maintain as you eventually end up fighting for freedom for everyone (CG) or screw everyone else over to pursue your own goals (CE). What does Veeky Forums think about that?

>Mad Stan
he is also pretty fucking smart, someone more familiar to the character then I explained that Batman Beyond didn't do his character justice.

You can avoid almost every retarded incarnation of an alignment by repeating to yourself the following mantra.

Alignment does NOT influence the character.
The character influences their alignment.

Many players play with this mantra reversed and it results in players asking themselves "what would a character with my alignment do?" instead of "what would my character do?" This is the source of retardation.

Take any well written character from a novel for example. You could impose alignments on them based on how they act, but the author did NOT ask themselves "how would this alignment act here?" when they wrote the character. This makes the character appear organic. Many D&D players have difficulty with this concept.

You play a chaotic neutral character.
You're talking about chaotic stupid.

Easier to not even play with alignments on the first place, in 5th edition they hardly matter now and are pretty much optional legacy RP fluff.

These alignment threads keep popping up because they are nostalgic 3.PF simulationism memes and cause hilarious philosophical arguments.

I am well aware of the somewhat deserved sanderson hateboner here, but wayne is sometimes a decent example of a chaotic alignment. He occasionally crosses into lolsorandum territory, but for the most part pulls off the "by any means that work" thing pretty well.

Make everything they do for their benefit first

CN is just selfish

I've noticed that all the praised heaped onto 5e was done by 4e in the exact same way.

>Watching the movie
>Not reading the book

...

I'm not qualified to talk about this anymore, DM switched my character to CE after 2 sessions when I murdered a shopkeeper, burned down his shop, and made my companion explode a man's testicles in an outhouse...

Sounds pretty CE to me, senpai.

>I committed a bunch of evil acts in a chaotic fashion

Makes sense

There's a couple of methods.

My favorite is not to play it like you've got an ethical code or mental disorder. Just pick some more specific vaguely un-"lawful" type. Think Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

Beyond that you've got just general scoundrels who aren't too bad but aren't terribly good (Jack Sparrow types) and morally ambiguous people fighting the law on principle (like a Robin Hood who robs merchants and not just villainous types).

Also this:

Just make them a selfish cunt who acts solely for the sake of his survival and freedom.

This is simple as fuck and everyone somehow confuses it for something else because it has "Chaotic" in it.

This motherfucker, yes.

I mean I know some of the examples in Complete Scoundrel are really fucking stupid (Boba Fett being Lawful Evil and Robin Hood being Chaotic Good for example of that), but Jack Sparrow and Snake Plisken is pretty spot on for Chaotic Neutral. Sure they do Good things on occasion but that's just cause they're movie protagonists. And yes Jack does get into the Chaotic Stupid side but we all know that's for shitty writing hijinks scenes to keep shit entertaining for the dumb babies and meme lords in the audience.

Have them constantly attempting to keep their manners, but occasionally letting a slip up of their true nature for either comedic...or intimidating effect.

Jack Sparrow is one of the best parts of those movies and his character only really suffers when the giant wet blanket that is Will Turner shows up.

True but then they made a movie that was just him trying to get his boat back and also maybe find the fountain of youth- and while it wasn't as boring as the second and third movie, it sure wasn't what most were hoping for.

>And yes Jack does get into the Chaotic Stupid side but we all know that's for shitty writing hijinks scenes to keep shit entertaining for the dumb babies and meme lords in the audience.
It's been a long time since I've seen one of the Pirates of the Carribean movies, but I seem to recall most of his "Chaotic Stupid" moments were efforts to save his own skin.

I can't even really think of any true Chaotic Stupid moments except when he jumped/fell off that cliff at the end of the first one.

Don't be the fishmalk deadpool. Simple as that.

What are some interesting motivations/backstories for a CN character?

youtube.com/watch?v=1_btQs2Movo

Cash and whores always works.

Han Solo for most of A New Hope.

He switches to Chaotic Good when he says "Hey Luke. May the force be with you."

The best part is he doesn't even realize he's Chaotic Good until Return of the Jedi.

He spends most of Empire trying to act CN.

>implying
Nah, Mal's CG. A very rusty CG, but still CG.
If he was CN he'd have dropped Simon and River on the side of the road as soon as he found out how much heat they had on them, instead of sticking his neck out to take them in.

Mal's actions are CG, but his motivations are pure CN.

>No matter how long the arm of the Alliance might get, we'll just get ourselves a little further.

The only one that I'd really call Chaotic Stupid is either the Jar of Dirt shit, or the rope swinging canon shit...but really that kind of swashbuckling silliness would be fun as hell to play.

Which then brings up the point: When does it stop being something fun, and start being Chaotic Stupid? There's a meta question to think about. Some people might find fun and immerse themselves in real intrigue, but in the same game other people might have fun immersing themselves by turning the tables and situation on it's head to get the job done and try to engage their friends and the situation.

>Fun: I gotta Jar o' Diiiiiiirt, I gotta Jar o' Diiiiiiirt.
>Chaotic Stupid: I stab the mayor lol.

Jar of dirt works because it engages with oddball shit already in play. It's got an element of the unexpected without being a total non sequitur.

Non sequitur shit can be fun, but it needs to be way the fuck out there and perfectly timed to get any laughs. And it's not really charming if it doesn't get any laughs. And it's hard to time perfectly as part of a normal conversation.

He has no self restrai and cries himself to sleep every night because he want's to lead a normal live but he has to adventure because every time he settles down a lynch mop forms to kick him out for being an obnoxious shit.

Oh I agree. The reason Jar of Dirt was funny was because Sparrow basically had a gun to Davy Jones' head and Jones didn't even realize it.

That's the key to antagonizing villains. You have to make it actually funny.

Play Blondie from the Dollars Trilogy

Always go with whores

He kinda oscillates though.

In Fistful gives most of the money he earned away so that lady could skip town with her kid. I'd say that's CG.

Overall though he's a good posterboy for the CN..

Easy.
Make them only care about themselves and people immediately relevant to themselves (friends and family) and everyone else can fuck off for all he cares. Make him hugely irreverent and uncaring of the law while he does it.

A good example would be a Rogue who regularly steals from those with means and perhaps kills in self-defense when he has to, has no respect for the law (or anybody at all really) and takes care mostly of himself when he has to he'll take care of some friends he likes, assuming he has any at all.
This person is disrespectful of and disobeys the law on a regular basis (Chaotic) and is mostly self-concerned without being actively malicious, violent, or hateful (Neutral).

I'm playing a chaotic neutral catfolk barbarian with an int of 7 currently. He's just smart enough to kiss the ass of people in charge and not get arrested, and that paladins tend to find fun things to fight if you mind your manners but he doesn't have a lot of motivation past booze, whores, and cooking (which he is decent at, he has enough ranks in profession chef and survival to clean and prepare most things.)

remember that the lol random aspect stems from a lack of motivation. it's not that they don't give a fuck, it's that they don't really care. unless it hurts or helps themselves, or someone they care about.

chaotic neutrals are really big on personal attachments. their friends are usually their only true grounding in life. this is why they always seem to have "big damn heroes" moments in stories after they've abandoned the party for being a pain in the ass. It's not that they were heroes all along, they're still only doing it for their friends.

>stealing
So he's evil then.

Nope. Theft is not inherently evil (PC's do it all the time, don't even pretend otherwise), it's Chaotic.
In addition by keeping your theft localized to those who can afford it without them spiraling into poverty, you're basically minimally impacting their lives, the modern equivalent of something that is inconvenient for maybe a day or two before you get over it.

But we Garrett would put it;
>"Poor people never have anything worth stealing anyway."
So he's not doing it out of altruism or a desire to minimize suffering, but because as a fact of life those who can't afford it don't really have anything worth wasting his time on.
I'd argue the folks Garrett steals from tend to be pretty awful people as well, but since he never really makes any attempts to STOP them unless his life actively depends on it (which admittedly by the end of each game it tends to) he's not really Good, just self-interested.

The book is inferior to the movie.

A guy that does what he has to to survive without being a dick about it.

I think Conan actually has a lot of CN in him, despite being such a loved and influential character. I think you could make a character that's focused on personal goals and doesn't care about trying to make the world a better place, refuses to take shit from anyone, while still being respectful and considerate towards their friends and it would still be sort of chaotic neutral.

That being said, it helps with any character to make sure that they have incentives towards acting in the best interests of the party.

Stupid is when the character's hijinks fuck over the whole party or are repeated often enough to slow the game noticeably.
Good silly play focuses any fallout on the character themselves and takes queues from the situation.
Jar of dirt of dirt is good because
>Any danger is focused directly on Jack and may even draw the threat away from other party members.
>It uses an important macuffin and relationship. The BBEG's heart, a thing he wants placed in a jar of dirt, something he cannot bypasses (he cannot normally move across earth)
In this case Jack's silliness isn't some random thing but a fun way of interacting with the game world. It's a good case for using objections and environment as bonuses for taunting.

Jack's player would be able to pull of the crazy shit he does because he actually pays attention to the game and makes use of every opportunity he sees. Instead of a powergamer he's a powerplayer: someone achieves optimisation thru clever roleplay.

Will and the others may be played by relatively new players. They took time to build fairly optimised guys they they can hold their own but they play relatively straight since they aren't use to the world or the system. They still do well since they have good numbers but generally take less risks so they don't get the same weird results Jack does.
Because he's a cool guy, Jack's player probably just threw his character points into what looked most fun. He knows he'd rather succeed with situational modifiers instead of just straight skill rolls. It also keeps him from totally overshadowing the others in mechanical performance.

tl;dr
>CUHRAZY works best not as crutch for dumb players, but as a tool for good ones.
>Jack is a This Guy

Is this from that thread where they decided PotC was an RPG campaign?

Why would I ever be playing 3.5?

By having a personality like this one

>Doesn't give a fuck about good or evil, he just wants to improve eternally
>Fuck the law, I'll do what I can in order to achieve my goals

Essentially the best CN char

Except he's not even a little bit Chaotic, Abathur is Lawful Neutral.

He's all about the structure of things. Break it down. Reorder it. Rebuild it. It is improved.

If he was CN, every time you'd pop down to visit him he'd be all
>KERRIGAN!
>I made a thing!
>Look, look, look!
>I gave the Zerglings an extra pair of legs! ON THEIR HEADS!
>Now they can foot-five!

"Fuck you I got mine"
An asshole who isn't necessarily Evil, but is willing to screw over anyone and everyone to ensure he gets something out of it

What comes to mind is one of the characters from the fifth book of the dark tower series. I forget the name of the guy, but he is unwilling to allow Roland to try to confront the babysnatchers for fear of what might happen if they fail in their task. However, when Roland defeats the babysnatchers, he says how he was always on their side. Someone whose whims are depends entirely on survival, and whose motivations are with those that prove themselves to be the most likely to help the character pursue their goal. To others it may seem like they are as fickle as a coin flip, but there is a wry cunning to their logic.

The way I do Chaotic Neutral is by having a character with a clear goal and who will do anything to accomplish that goal even if it is pretty shitty in nature.

For example, playing a dwarf who is looking for a lost mine. He would not be above torturing the shit out of someone to try and get more information but would rather go about getting the information through other less brutal means if possible.

As an IRL CN alignment, this post basically sums up my life.

Except for rule number 1. Fuck the haters, have a good laugh.

>How do you play a chaotic neutral character without succumbing to the "LOLSORANDOM" and Chaotic stupid cliches?

By not picking your alignment first then trying to play your character to fit it.

Come up with a character concept that's not going to be too obnoxious for the rest of the party to deal with. If, when you're done, the words "Chaotic Neutral" happen to best describe your character then scribble that down on your character sheet and you're good to go.

>As an IRL CN alignment, this post basically sums up my life.
>IRL Chaotic Neutral

O_o

>Post characters that are just like you
>I'm the joker because I'm intelligent, nihilistic, and have a wicked sense of humor

>As an IRL CN alignment, this post basically sums up my life.

>Not being NG
ISHYGDDT
real talk, you're a sociopath? or am I misreading this

...

kek

>filename
>not psssssh.jpg

You don't like rules and your ideals aren't particularly good, or at least you don't actually follow them all too well, but you aren't all that evil either. You do what you want, but eating babies isn't on that list.

In the movie he did things for "good".

He's the kind of guy who would burn down an orphanage to raise adoption rates.

Yeah he brainwashed people but he ended up doing nothing but "good" things.

book tyler durden is a definitional asshat

>burn down an orphanage to raise adoption rates.
That's called a Delusional Asshat
Very similar to the Definitional Asshat
That's not Good that's Evil for a Good reason. Which doesn't make it Good.

Blaine the Train was chaotic neutral. He also did nothing wrong.

A chaotic neutral person is driven by opposing impulses. Their conflict is what drives the character of such a person. Everyone has impulses and urges that contradict what their conscious mind would like to be. The chaotic neutral gives them equal footing.

He can be a very emotional person. Or he can be a very intellectual person who has to change his models all the time with the appearance of newer and larger sets of data.

The book and Movie are equal. This is widely accepted and supported by J.P. And the creators of the movie. In terms of moral alignment all characters are the same in the movie and the book.

Chaotic good.

This

My last character was CN and was a perfectly reasonable individual most of the time, but he had a skewed priority towards proving his strength whenever he could (through violence naturally) and eventually flipped and clobbereda PC's head in for disrespecting him. Fucker had it coming though.

There's nothing magical about Chaotic Neutral. It's just where the Chaotic and Neutral axes happen to cross. There's nothing about it that makes you act in a stupid, random fashion, unless your character is stupid and, you know, random. And sure, randumb characters are Chaotic, but characters who never, ever lie and always follow the letter of the law no matter what, and say "Sir! Yes, Sir!" whenever talking to somebody in a position of power, no matter how inappropriate it is, are Lawful. But both of those are fringe cases within their respective categories.

A Chaotic Neutral character is selfish without being ruthlessly self-interested. They may be glad to help others when it costs them little, but when push comes to shove, they're looking out for themselves (and maybe their close friends). A Chaotic Neutral character has little respect for notions of honor, and will tend to fight dirty if given the opportunity. I mean, you're trying to kill them but it's improper for them to throw sand in your eyes or hit below the belt? What kind of moron came up with that?

>alignments

I shall give an example from one of my favorite companions from a meh D&D game; Neverwinter Nights 2

Meet Neeshka, a chaotic neutral rogue. She has been abused and on the run all her life for many reasons (but mostly because she is a Tiefling). Being on the run has taught her that the best way to survive is to care for yourself which was easy since nobody ever wanted to be friends with a "goat girl".
Neeshka also developed a hatred for all things that have to do with the law and obedience because of two main things: 1.In her early childhood she was adopted to a temple of Helm where everything was strict and lackluster when she wanted to be free and happy so she escaped. 2.She has way too many stories of being both persecuted and assaulted by the local law for no real reason.

Now in the game when you meet her and save her she is actually surprised that a random person helped her and allowed her to stay with him and immediately sees you as a BFF (since she never had a real friend or someone help her for no reason but to be nice). Later in the game if you are still on her good side she will see you as senpai. Even though she still does stupid rogue shit like stealing, she will still listen to you and stop it if you insist and give you good advice about the streets.

What this goes to show is that a CN can still be loyal because of his love for his friends and not be a jackass that does random shit. Basically the entire alignment system in my opinion is a "guideline" to your characters beliefs and actions, not a nose that makes your character a stiff 1 dimensional shit.

You answered your own question OP. Don't be stupid. A character who isn't fond of authority or restriction, and isn't overly altruistic or harmful shouldn't even be "losorandum" fucking with people for teh lulz. That's soft chaotic-evil behavior and has no place at the game table.

They can just be an individualist who doesn't trust or like authority, and isn't trying to do anything but what is fair for themselves, without interference from anyone.

Your a crook who's only really in it for themselves.

Unlike chaotic good, your not here to right wrongs with society.Unlike chaotic evil, you don't want to see the world on fire because that would be personally bad for you.

>goodness is a social construct
So Tumblr is chaotic neutral?

Kids.

EZ. Get ur memes on :

>see king?? STAB THE KING AND FUG HIS DOTTER! xD
>then immediatly go "im sorry :( and donate ten gold to an orfanage"
then you want to do jeoks from dadpoolo
>shot an guy
>but itwasnt your turn
>dm sezu cant do this
>tel him LOL IM CHAOTIC I DEFY THE RULES!
>>
dm wants to do a roailroad? Go the other way! gotta save the world?? SLICE OF LIFE ANIME INSTAED xD

...

PLAY A PERSON NOT THE DAMN ALYMENT

Lie a lot. Break oaths. Promise shit, and never follow up.

why would people want to just play as themselves